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New Mac mini lacks optical drive as Apple continues to ditch the disc - Page 2

post #41 of 166
7/20/11 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you need one at all.

Try not to explain that to a Windows apologist.
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post #42 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by circling View Post

Sorry for the confusion... We don't use mini's to create these disks... I was thinking about the students that buy the disks. If a student gets a new mini, then they have to spend more money to see their show.

It's not really up to you to determine what computer someone else buys, nor is it any concern of yours whether they buy a computer with or without an ODD.

If anything, this should be telling you to stop distributing this stuff on DVDs.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #43 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:04am
I'm thinking that the loss of the Optical drive may discourage some in the htpc market from a new mini purchase. I personally haven't bought or rented a disc in so long that I honestly cannot remember when it was. There is after all a reason all the rental stores are drying up and going out of business.
Just looks odd to see that Apple doesnt sell the regular MacBook anymore though.
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post #44 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

1. Some people only have one computer. Kinda hard to use remote disc without a second computer. So now the Mac Mini requires either a superdrive or another computer entirely to do the same thing its predecessor did?

2. Windows cannot be installed via remote disc

3. OS X has the built in capability to run Windows so, yes, it is a problem.

I never stated the purpose of selling a Mac was to run Bootcamp. That was NOT my argument at all.

At first i was like cool. But looking into I agree with this poster. The mac mini has less hardware but is the same price. Not everyone is networked so how do they get software? Also, if they have to buy an external drive to get 3rd party software, apple effectively just raised the cost of their most low end system.

I think Apple is making it more expensive to own they're low-end computer. More likely this may drive PC sales as an alternative to owning the mac mini.

And before anyone goes off on a tangent about me trolling, I'm very pro apple. My house has 2 iphone 3g replaced by 2 iphone 4, 1 4th gen ipod touch, 2nd gen ATV, 2nd gen mac mini, 1 1st gen ipad(waiting to replace with ipad 3), and if apple comes out with an HDTV we're getting that also.

I just think apple should have another option for getting software on your mac...and the OD was it.
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post #45 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

At first i was like cool. But looking into I agree with this poster. The mac mini has less hardware but is the same price. Not everyone is networked so how do they get software? Also, if they have to buy an external drive to get 3rd party software, apple effectively just raised the cost of their most low end system.

I think Apple is making it more expensive to own they're low-end computer. More likely this may drive PC sales as an alternative to owning the mac mini.

And before anyone goes off on a tangent about me trolling, I'm very pro apple. My house has 2 iphone 3g replaced by 2 iphone 4, 1 4th gen ipod touch, 2nd gen ATV, 2nd gen mac mini, 1 1st gen ipad(waiting to replace with ipad 3), and if apple comes out with an HDTV we're getting that also.

I just think apple should have another option for getting software on your mac...and the OD was it.

It seems I was wrong about the price, so it is about the same price to buy the Mini and an external drive. Kludgy to say the least, but doable. NOT so doable for those who wanted to use it as part of their home entertainment system....if they own/rent DVDs.

I am also not a troll or Apple hater. I have been using Apple computers since 1985.
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post #46 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:11am
I replaced the optical drive in my MacBook Pro 17 with a second hard drive as soon as I bought it. I put the optical drive in a cheap external enclosure, but hardly ever use it. I think the last time I used it was for some windows program in Parallels Desktop many moons ago.

I have to confess that I *never* liked optical from it's very inception. I used syquest disks and found optical to be slow and fragile. There was always promises to make them fast, but it never happened. Meanwhile their fragility was always combated with propaganda instead of results. How many old optical disks work compared to floppies 10 years older? My old syquest disks from the 90s most likely work just fine.
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post #47 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

Not everyone is networked so how do they get software?

If people aren't networked and for some off reason need an internal optical drive why do you think they are the target market for the machine without an optical drive?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #48 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's not really up to you to determine what computer someone else buys, nor is it any concern of yours whether they buy a computer with or without an ODD.

If anything, this should be telling you to stop distributing this stuff on DVDs.

You're as arrogant as Steve
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post #49 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by circling View Post

Sorry for the confusion... We don't use mini's to create these disks... I was thinking about the students that buy the disks. If a student gets a new mini, then they have to spend more money to see their show.

Sell a digital version that they can download from the interwebs, I hear some folks are doing it
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post #50 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

At first i was like cool. But looking into I agree with this poster. The mac mini has less hardware but is the same price. Not everyone is networked so how do they get software? Also, if they have to buy an external drive to get 3rd party software, apple effectively just raised the cost of their most low end system.

I think Apple is making it more expensive to own they're low-end computer. More likely this may drive PC sales as an alternative to owning the mac mini.

And before anyone goes off on a tangent about me trolling, I'm very pro apple. My house has 2 iphone 3g replaced by 2 iphone 4, 1 4th gen ipod touch, 2nd gen ATV, 2nd gen mac mini, 1 1st gen ipad(waiting to replace with ipad 3), and if apple comes out with an HDTV we're getting that also.

I just think apple should have another option for getting software on your mac...and the OD was it.

No one cares if you're pro-apple - my house has over fourty apple devices bought over the past 5 years.
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post #51 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:16am
Oh, for those bemoaning the loss if their optical drive...

1) Of course you can install windows without an optical drive. You have been able to do this officially before you could do it officially with Mac OS X. Ever heard of a netbook?

2) You don't need Apple's super expensive hardware to have an external DVD drive. Buy any cheap wintel drive, of which there are zillions due to the popularity of netbooks.

3) Asking Apple to provide bulky, expensive to engineer around, old hardware as standard kit because 5% of users can't figure the above out won't make the mini cheaper.
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post #52 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntson View Post

You're as arrogant as Steve

Except I'm not making money off it, so I'm obviously a bad guy for it.

Either that, or you take the opposing opinion.

Which means that you're okay with companies and other people telling you what you can and can't buy. Which is ludicrous.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #53 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except I'm not making money off it, so I'm obviously a bad guy for it.

Either that, or you take the opposing opinion.

Which means that you're okay with companies and other people telling you what you can and can't buy. Which is ludicrous.

I take the view that the relase of the MacMini w/o optical drive should not tell one that they should stop relseaing their stuff on DVD.
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post #54 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So they removed the optical drive, and the price stayed the same?

I could understand ditching it on notebooks, but ditching it on a desktop machine that is already uber tiny to begin with seems ridiculous to me.

Hmmm, sadly this is a very good point. Unless they crammed something equally valuable inside, the price should have come down a bit. So for those who do not opt for a second internal HDD or SDD, what is going to be in that space?


EDIT: Nevermind. Someone explained there was a price drop, so that's cool. I guess I don't pay enough attention to some of Apple's products/pricing like I should.
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post #55 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntson View Post

I take the view that the relase of the MacMini w/o optical drive should not tell one that they should stop relseaing their stuff on DVD.

You have to follow the market or you're left behind. I didn't say to stop, I said this could be telling him that people don't want discs anymore.

So you'd've told a keyboard manufacturer to not release USB keyboards in 1997, then. Keep with that PS/2...

Oh, wait. People still sell PS/2 keyboards and mice...
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #56 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

What part of "some people only own one computer" doesn't make sense? If that one computer were the new Mac Mini, then HOW would they make such an install USB drive without a optical drive or easy access to another machine? If the Mini had an optical drive so that I could make the install USB drive...then I wouldn't need the USB drive.

Why drive instead of flying?
Afraid to fly, get sick when flying, cheaper to drive, etc.

Apple is a business, not a charity. My statements put financials to the side. It's all about speed. The optical drive is shockingly slow by today's I/O standards.

Find a friend with a computer or go to a Microsoft Store to get your USB wiped up.
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post #57 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheinside View Post

Why take a car across country when you can take a plane?

Driving a car across the country slowly allows you to take in the scenery in a way you can't with a fast a fly-over.
Installing slowly with a DVD is not about the same kind of enriching experience.
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post #58 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

At first i was like cool. But looking into I agree with this poster. The mac mini has less hardware but is the same price.

Really?! I guess if you don't include the CPU, GPU, hard drive (with extra slot?), oh and a little thing called THUNDERBOLT while keeping hdmi meaning you can run two or more displays.

But sure, less hardware
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post #59 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's not really up to you to determine what computer someone else buys, nor is it any concern of yours whether they buy a computer with or without an ODD.

If anything, this should be telling you to stop distributing this stuff on DVDs.

Here is a much easier suggestion...

Instead of this student being forced to buy another computer that has a DVD drive, or purchasing the Apple external Superdrive, or having to borrow a computer or optical drive from a friend...why doesn't he or she just use the DVD player connected to their TV?

I don't know anyone who doesn't have a DVD player and/or game console in their living room on which they can watch DVDs. I doubt these players are going anywhere. You can argue the poor student issue, but most college students these days are anything but poor.
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post #60 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Only if the mini is the only computer in the house. Otherwise you can use the optical drive of any Mac on your home network.

Besides, this is what you should expect for being so cheap. You are using the cheapest computer Apple makes and you are running two OS's on it. I bet you are running on minimal RAM and have a VGA BenQ monitor attached to it as well.

The only thing cheaper would be switching back to Windows and buying some awful windows box that will last all of a year before it blows up or needs to be upgraded. Maybe that's your future.

I really have to ask this:
Are you this much of d**khead in real life? Or do you only feel okay acting like such a prick via the internet?

Having read your comments for months, they're always rude, condescending and venomous.
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post #61 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So they removed the optical drive, and the price stayed the same?

I could understand ditching it on notebooks, but ditching it on a desktop machine that is already uber tiny to begin with seems ridiculous to me.

The price is $100 lower, it comes with dedicated graphics, and a 500 GB HDD on the base model - That's a damn fine compromise. No one's gonna use a SuperDrive for ripping CDs, DVDs or installing software anymore - That's why there's iTunes and the Mac App Store. However, when the Mac Pro's updated in the near future, they'll likely leave the SuperDrive or make it a configurable option at least.
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post #62 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by delete View Post

Driving a car across the country slowly allows you to take in the scenery in a way you can't with a fast a fly-over.
Installing slowly with a DVD is not about the same kind of enriching experience.

The only time I equate optical discs with an enriching experience is when I boot up my LC 575 and play old disc based games on it.

Because that "disc read" sound brings back so many great childhood memories. There's just nothing else like that sound or how you feel when you hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I don't know anyone who doesn't have a DVD player and/or game console in their living room on which they can watch DVDs. I doubt these players are going anywhere. You can argue the poor student issue, but most college students these days are anything but poor.

This is the exact argument for why Nintendo didn't provide DVD playback with the Wii and Wii U. There's absolutely no point to the added cost, weight, heat, and power draw when everyone already has a DVD player.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #63 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by circling View Post

Sorry for the confusion... We don't use mini's to create these disks... I was thinking about the students that buy the disks. If a student gets a new mini, then they have to spend more money to see their show.

No more than they would have spent buying the last generation Mini.

Last generation w/ DVD: $699
Current generation w/o DVD + external DVD: $599 + $79.
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post #64 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:51am
This is reminiscent of people complaining when legacy ports were removed, then the floppy drive, and now the CD drive. There will always be people that will have difficulty adjusting to a once-common technology being retired. That's the nature of technology. For most it's a non-issue. After a while, it will be the norm.

I never liked them. They are very slow and very mechanical. Removing it removes a major point of failure. I'm all for it. All this tells me is that I should keep my external SuperDrive for the very-long forseeable future.

Everyone will adapt. It's inevitable.
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post #65 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by circling View Post

Sorry for the confusion... We don't use mini's to create these disks... I was thinking about the students that buy the disks. If a student gets a new mini, then they have to spend more money to see their show.

Okay, lets kill the "spend more" nonsense someone planted at the top of this thread already.

Apple DROPPED the price of the Mini by $100. If you still want an optical drive, you can get the SuperDrive for, you guessed it, $100. So you spent the same money, for a faster computer, however, with an external drive (which many might consider a better thing, since this is a desktop).

OTOH, your student could go buy a cheaper $20-$40 3rd party external drive on Newegg.com, and actually end up spending $60-$80 LESS. Alternatively, they could have another Windows or Mac PC in the house, and end up spending $100 less.

The cost argument is nonsensical.
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post #66 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

The mac mini has less hardware but is the same price.

If by same price you mean, $100 cheaper, yeah, its the same price.

Whats up with all the lies in this thread...
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post #67 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

1. Some people only have one computer. Kinda hard to use remote disc without a second computer. So now the Mac Mini requires either a superdrive or another computer entirely to do the same thing its predecessor did?

2. Windows cannot be installed via remote disc

3. OS X has the built in capability to run Windows so, yes, it is a problem.

I never stated the purpose of selling a Mac was to run Bootcamp. That was NOT my argument at all.

If you don't mind the external drive you can use any USB DVD drive for 40 bucks you can buy at any electronics shop.
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post #68 of 166
7/20/11 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

NOT so doable for those who wanted to use it as part of their home entertainment system....

Huh? External Drives cannot play DVDs anymore? Why can't you simply place your Superdrive right next to (or stack it with) your mini, and still be able to play your DVDs?

Has all common sense been driven out of this thread?
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post #69 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt95Thompson View Post

The price is $100 lower, it comes with dedicated graphics, and a 500 GB HDD on the base model - That's a damn fine compromise. No one's gonna use a SuperDrive for ripping CDs, DVDs or installing software anymore - That's why there's iTunes and the Mac App Store. However, when the Mac Pro's updated in the near future, they'll likely leave the SuperDrive or make it a configurable option at least.

Would have loved to pay the same price if they had added a 64/128GB SSD drive for OSX and a few often used apps. A SSD drive really would have been a killer feature!
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post #70 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Hmmm, sadly this is a very good point. Unless they crammed something equally valuable inside, the price should have come down a bit. So for those who do not opt for a second internal HDD or SDD, what is going to be in that space?


EDIT: Nevermind. Someone explained there was a price drop, so that's cool. I guess I don't pay enough attention to some of Apple's products/pricing like I should.

You don't need to pay attention to the pricing. However, if you are whining about how features were removed, while keeping the same price, it might be a good idea to check that the price was actually unchanged.
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post #71 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If people aren't networked and for some off reason need an internal optical drive why do you think they are the target market for the machine without an optical drive?

That's my point. They had a market and it could narrow down due to the spec changes and price.

The make mini is for the low-Enders. The bar has been raised for that group now
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post #72 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:05am
The new "Airs" and Minis" come with a new feature called Internet Recovery which allows you to install OS X Lion even if you have a failed or blank hard drive - right over the air.... it's pretty cool.

And for the record, the minis used to start at $699, now they're $100 cheaper.
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post #73 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:06am
Just another omission that makes the entry-level iMac look like a killer deal compared to the Mac Mini. In fact I'm pretty sure that's the only reason the Mac Mini exists at all. While it is great that the (more expensive) Mac Mini finally has dedicated graphics, why does it only have a dual-core 2.5Ghz instead of the quad-core 2.5Ghz chip found in the cheapest iMac? By the time you add a superdrive, 7200rpm hard drive and magic trackpad you're only $100 away from the cost of an iMac with 21.5" screen, twice as many processors and faster graphics.

The Mac Mini really only makes sense if the base configurations suit a person's needs; as soon as you start upgrading it becomes painfully overpriced.
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post #74 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:07am
The direction Apple takes IS the future of computing. Apple is innovative and produces top quality products. I am often disappointed with some of the things they do. Removal of the optical drive is one of these things. The direction of computing is cloud computing and streaming video. But if this were to go to every household today, I don't think it would work well. The infrastructure is not there. When we're all on fiber (at least to the drop at your house), then we've got bandwidth. Until then, DVDs are not going to go away. RedBox is a huge business as is Netflix. Netflix doesn't stream their latest titles and the streaming quality is not quite as good as the DVD. The Mac Mini is a great little device for playing DVDs. I suppose that if someone really wanted to play DVDs, then a $50 DVD player would accomplish the task. But to a TV, not a computer monitor. Several software manufacturers still distribute via CD, particularly business software. While I am disappointed that the optical drive has been removed from the Mac Mini, it probably will not make a real difference.
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post #75 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

...allows you to install OS X Lion even if you have a failed... ...hard drive...

I... don't think so.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #76 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

If by same price you mean, $100 cheaper, yeah, its the same price.

Whats up with all the lies in this thread...

To all. My apologies. Not lying. Was misinformed. Price argument is no longer valid
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post #77 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I... don't think so.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4718

You better think again. You can boot directly from Apple's servers.
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post #78 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

That's my point. They had a market and it could narrow down due to the spec changes and price.

The make mini is for the low-Enders. The bar has been raised for that group now

The Mac mini may be Apple's least expensive machine but it's not for the low-end customer, it's for the customer that values the svelte and simple design of the Mac mini. The lack of the ODD furthers that. To restate, the low-end buyers are not paying a premium for notebook-grade components in a desktop machine.
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post #79 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

You don't need to pay attention to the pricing. However, if you are whining about how features were removed, while keeping the same price, it might be a good idea to check that the price was actually unchanged.

I don't whine about anything really, except when my wife keeps turning the thermostat up to save money while I am sweating. And even then, it's not so much a whine as a grumble.

As for your comment, when another poster led me to believe the price was the same without an optical drive, I was disappointed. Of course now I am aware that the price dropped $100, which is the right thing to do. Had Apple removed a major component and the price had stayed the same, then this would be a problem. Of course, this is now a moot point as the price did drop. So all is well.
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post #80 of 166
7/20/11 at 9:46am
I am not a fan of losing the Optical Drive. I wanted to upgrade my 2.0Ghz mini with a new on in my entertainment center. ( The old Mini will become a WEB/FTP server ). I still watch a lot of DVD's on the Mini connected to the TV. ( Got Rid of the bulky CD player ) I do not want a super drive adding clutter.....

I know a lot of people use these in entertainment centers, I am not sure that not having a Optical drive is a good thing....

I order a 2.66Mhz from the refurb site......
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