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Hans Blix is a Liar

post #1 of 161
Thread Starter 
1) In his 3/7/2003 written report, Hans Blix indicated Iraq had drones which exceeded the UN's 90 mile range limit. These could be used to drop chemical weapons. BLIX MADE NO MENTION OF THIS IS HIS ORAL REPORT.

2) In the same written report, Blix indicated that inspectors had "credible evidence" that Iraq still possessed Anthrax. Once again, BLIX FAILED TO MENTION THIS ORALLY.

Blix is a tool. He knows there are still weapons there that Saddam hasn't declared. He knows he probably won't find them.

I ask you: How mnay more violations will it require on Iraq's part to trigger military action? 5? 10? 100?
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post #2 of 161
I doubt he is a liar. He's in a tough spot.

He knows that there is going to be a war and he knows that it is relatively unpopular. He's not about to make any more comments that could be seen as a trigger for war. He doesn't want to be held personally responsible for that. I don't blame him. It puts him in a place where it is better to err on the side of caution and to understate Iraqi gross non-compliance.

Of course the absurdity is that we all know that Iraq is in total non-compliance and is not truly disarming. The legitimate argument of the anti-war group is that war is not worth it in spite of that because the danger does not exceed the penalty of going to war. But unfortunately the question of compliance is being used as a proxy debate rather than getting at the real issue which should have been debated more fully by that crowd before 1441. Undoubtedly some will continue to spin what 1441 meant, but the diplomats all knew how it broke down but whatever.

Blix may come out of this looking like a complete fool. The IAEA absolutely bungled their assessment of the Iraqi nuclear program years ago when he was their director. That certainly hasn't helped his rep. If Iraq is found to have massive amounts of WOMD and if some of the claims that he has disputed prove to be true then he will lose all credibility. Some people are already saying that he is too soft for the job. We'll see. Alternatively, if relatively small quantities of WOMD are found than he would be golden.
post #3 of 161
Thread Starter 
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt when he took over. The more I see of him, the more he shows his agenda. No one woud hold the man responsible if he came out and said Iraq is in almost total non-compliance.
His ridiculous "this is real disarmarment" comment is laughable. We know the man is producing more missles. For God's sake, how can he even keep a straight face?
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post #4 of 161
[quote] We know the man is producing more missles.<hr></blockquote>

How do you know this? Where is the evidence?
post #5 of 161
Hans just didn't want to give them the sound bite. He's the Puppet of Paris.
post #6 of 161
I think he's just looking after his own job, which at this point puts him more in France's camp than the US's.
post #7 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>I think he's just looking after his own job, which at this point puts him more in France's camp than the US's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Whoa. So he's not saying stuff like, "We found some bombs!" when he has, so he can keep himself in Iraq for a few months longer, and so keep his job.

You have lost the ****ing plot, if I could just point out.
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post #8 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong> His ridiculous "this is real disarmarment" comment is laughable. We know the man is producing more missles. For God's sake, how can he even keep a straight face?</strong><hr></blockquote>

1) If destroying al-Samoud missiles is not disarmament, what it is?

2) How do we know he's producing more missiles? Because the UK government says so (they're the people who produced faked evidence of uranium imports from Niger)? Or because the US says so (they're the people who claimed a delerict factory and bakery was an al-Qaeda training camp)?

Who says so?
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post #9 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>Hans just didn't want to give them the sound bite. He's the Puppet of Paris.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Beyond caricature.
post #10 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>

Whoa. So he's not saying stuff like, "We found some bombs!" when he has, so he can keep himself in Iraq for a few months longer, and so keep his job.

You have lost the ****ing plot, if I could just point out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sich a rude little boy. Gotta lighten up a bit too.
post #11 of 161
[quote]Hans Blix is a Liar <hr></blockquote> No he's not. He's an honerable gentleman
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post #12 of 161
I always find it interesting how quick some people are to distrust America or President Bush and yet have no problem giving the benefit of the doubt to Hans Blix and even Saddam Hussein! Who is more trustworthy? Bush or Saddam? Bush says Saddam is producing missiles and hiding wmd. Saddam says he isn't. Should I believe the president of our country or a maniacal dictator with a history of aggression, atrocities and lying? Hmmm....
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post #13 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by elo:
<strong>I always find it interesting how quick some people are to distrust America or President Bush and yet have no problem giving the benefit of the doubt to Hans Blix and even Saddam Hussein! Who is more trustworthy? Bush or Saddam? Bush says Saddam is producing missiles and hiding wmd. Saddam says he isn't. Should I believe the president of our country or a maniacal dictator with a history of aggression, atrocities and lying? Hmmm....</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a good question, Bush or Saddam? hmm. I know I trust Blix a lot more than both of them.
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post #14 of 161
I'd have to say neither Bush nor Saddam is any more trustworthy really.

It's just Bush has a far greater potential for destruction, and is highly unlikely to use it while Saddam is far less dangerous, but much more likely to do something rash.

Neither case makes either one more or less honest, but if you had to choose most sane individuals would see that Bush is the lesser of two evils.
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post #15 of 161
And how is it that Blix is so trustworthy? Many seem eager to believe that Bush has hidden agendas and can't be trusted but apparently Blix is immune to such things. I don't trust Blix at all. He appears to be woefully inept at his job and his "reports" are ambiguous and incomplete. I imagine it's too much of a leap to think he could be a pawn of the pacifist UN. Oh no, not Blix. He's a moral pillar.

"Neither Bush nor Saddam is any more trustworthy" ? This quote is truly sad. It's this type of thinking that really makes me worry about the people in this country and the world.

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
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post #16 of 161
I'd say Blix is fair game these days. People don't have a problem slagging Powell wherever convenient, nowdays. Funny thing is that a lot of antiwar people stood by Powell's even-handedness only a little while ago. Now that he gave his presentation which decidedly steps over to the pro-Iraq War side, he is eschewed by the same people all of a sudden. It appears that people tend to bolster someone not for the ideals/values/beliefs/credentials they hold, but simply if they are aligned with their agenda at a particular moment.

Is it possible that Blix has lost his objectivity on the issue? Quite certainly. It's quite clear that he has chosen to filter his presentations to forward the agenda of "process". If he ever decided to not filter, it would be seen as a definite step to the "other side", and I'm sure that all of those people who look up to him now would suddenly eschew him just the same as they did with Powell. It is all agenda driven, not responsiveness to the information at hand.
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post #17 of 161
Some guy said that when the smearing campaign against the inspectors starts, then war is just around the corner. Guess he was right.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #18 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by elo:
<strong>
"Neither Bush nor Saddam is any more trustworthy" ? This quote is truly sad. It's this type of thinking that really makes me worry about the people in this country and the world. </strong><hr></blockquote>

giant,

Where are you when we need you? We've got another one here that doesn't believe that Bush is lying to us to start a war....
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #19 of 161
Is this really a smear campaign or just citations of objective inconsistency? When they pull out the child porn charges and pictures of Blix shaking hands and smiling with Saddam, that's when it smells like a smear campaign to me.
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post #20 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>

giant,

Where are you when we need you? We've got another one here that doesn't believe that Bush is lying to us to start a war....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, just another one. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Everybody thinks they have the world on their side. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: Randycat99 ]</p>
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #21 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>I'd have to say neither Bush nor Saddam is any more trustworthy really.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then you are (1) lying, or (2) ignorant. Or you could be saying it for political reasons (see (2)).

I'm tired of this stuff. You guys whine because you don't get better treatment here and then you post THIS!
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post #22 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>Some guy said that when the smearing campaign against the inspectors starts, then war is just around the corner. Guess he was right.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Comments like those are a preemptive strike against legitimate criticism. Criticism can only be a smear campaign?
post #23 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>


Comments like those are a preemptive strike against legitimate criticism. Criticism can only be a smear campaign?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I thought you were pro-preemptive strikes?
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post #24 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by finboy:
<strong>

Then you are (1) lying, or (2) ignorant. Or you could be saying it for political reasons (see (2)).

I'm tired of this stuff. You guys whine because you don't get better treatment here and then you post THIS!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I realize that as much as I don't like Bush, Saddam is 1000 times worse. That doesn't make either one more trustworthy than the other.

You guys are like little kids. 'Because I don't like you, that means you stole the cookie from the cookie jar!'

Get real. Bush has a very poor history when it comes to trust.

Clinton is like 1000 times better than Bush, so that means he DIDN'T lie about getting a blow job!
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #25 of 161
SDW...just in the case that Blix came out with some damning stuff against Iraq: If I had it, I would bet you the entire US defense budget that you wouldn't complain about that, even if he was lying about it!

Looks like it's the US and UK who are the real liars: Even the corporate media are reporting this one! (probably not Fox tho)....



<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/882311.asp" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/882311.asp</a>

<a href="http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2346364" target="_blank">http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2346364</a>

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,910113,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,910113,00.html</a>

If WMDs are the real reason for going to war against Iraq, how come they have to resort to fabricating 'evidence' on such a regular basis? They've done this re. nerve gas, bio weapons, mobile labs, aerial photos, arabic "translations", the works. Even the supposed gassing of the Kurds is a lie: this was acknowledged in a DIA report 10 years ago to be either untrue or "highly improbable".
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #26 of 161
SDW,

Send your high profile communication to bush......oops! He might be a liar also!

Scott,

" He's the Puppet of Paris. "
__________________


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Film at eleven.

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[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
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post #27 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>Topic: Hans Blix is a Liar</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sure, he's a liar.
And George Bush is a liar.
And Tom Daschle is a liar.
And Jean-Pierre Raffarin is a liar.
And Vladimir Putin is a liar.
And Tony Blair is a liar.
And your 4th grade teacher is a liar.
And everybody's mother is a liar.

No one makes it through life without lying. Anyone who lies or ever has lied is a liar.

Why bother to call someone a liar, since it's true about all of us? I suppose you might make the accusation if you want to emphasize the act of lying, to convey the idea that a particular person's lying is somehow a characteristic and pernicious aspect of their being.

Well, is that your point about Hans Blix SDW2001? Or is it merely that in your opinion that he has lied about certain specific things?

Whether the accusation is true or not, I don't think I've ever heard a convincing, persuasive, well-considered case for a particular viewpoint made that included someone snarling out the words "He's a liar!"

Lest you think I'm singling you out for your pro-war viewpoint, I can fault many anti-war people for the same kind of blustering, useless rhetoric.
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post #28 of 161
Blix' former boss, a friend who has known him for 40 years has said that Blix is only in it for the job, the prestige and the process.

He claims that Blix is like most career diplomats: More interested in the process than in the result. If there are results, then the process ends and Blix loses his job.

Remember a few months ago when that Iraqi tried to flee into the cars of the UN inspectors? Blix' response was to turn him back over to the Iraqis for "such an inelegant way of approaching the Inspectors."

Not interested in what he had to say. Not interested in the fact that the Iraqis would kill him if he was returned to them. Not interested in any part of it except that the man was "inelegant."

That same man has disappeared now. Likely murdered. After he was tortured, after his children were tortured and raped and after his wife and drawn and quartered in front of the entire family. That is the regime Blix would rather have in power because it gives him and those like him jobs.

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #29 of 161
It's like he thinks he is a AAA celebrity scoffing at the peon who futily tries to get an autograph, except he is utterly oblivious to the severity of the situation which compelled that person to risk it all in approaching the inspectors. I wonder if at that point, it became clear to all who witnessed it (Iraqi's, that is) that these shining UN inspectors who are held as upholders of justice and peace lacked any sense of sympathy or concern for "the natives" whatsoever.
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post #30 of 161
"clinton is like 1000 times better than Bush" <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

That's a good one. Thank god clinton isn't president now. Of course, neither Iraq or N.Korea would be a problem. saddam and jong-il would just tell clinton they have no weapons and he'd belive them...no problem! As much as the left hates to admit it, we are paying for eight years of liberal "i feel your pain" politics. No, clinton is not responsible for 9-11 or the current situation, at least not completely.

It's true that the liberals need gun control. The louder they speak up the more they shoot themselves in the foot! (see following posts for evidence)
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post #31 of 161
Thread Starter 
"Clinton was better than Bush"

"Bush is nomore trustworthy than Saddam"

Oh my. I am just in disbelief when I hear this kind of thinking. The President of the United States is equated with a maniacal dictator who slaughters his own people and has toyed with the international community for years. This is the Left for you.

And, the first statement makes it even worse. You cite Bill Clinton as being more trustworthy than George W. Bush. That's absurd....unbelievably absurd. You are talking about the president that looked the people right in the eye....wagged his finger in their faces, and LIED. He lied under oath. He later admitted it! And you compare him to President Bush? Clinton is perhaps the most dishonest President in the history of this nation. Say what you about the economy and "being at peace" during his administration (also a lie), he was the very definition of "morally corrupt".
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post #32 of 161
[quote]That's a good one. Thank god clinton isn't president now. Of course, neither Iraq or N.Korea would be a problem. saddam and jong-il would just tell clinton they have no weapons and he'd belive them...no problem!<hr></blockquote>

North Korea wouldn't be a problem since we would still be giving our aid package to them. We only stopped giving them aid because of a *mistranslation*. Then they decided they couldn't trust us because we were making stuff up about them and looking to pick a fight. So they started up their nuclear reactors and now they could have a nuclear bomb in 4-8 weeks. I doubt Clinton would have got himself in that mess.

Then there is Iraq. Bush wants his war, Bush is going to get his war. It's as simple as that. For Clinton, war was the last option. For Bush, it's obviously one of the first. When nearly 35% of your own people don't favor military action without UN support, you have a problem. The world doesn't want this conflict, they want to try peace first and maybe they would have a chance if the President wasn't pressing war so much. They made up their mind a year ago they were going to attack Iraq. So much for the element of surprise.

[quote]And, the first statement makes it even worse. You cite Bill Clinton as being more trustworthy than George W. Bush. That's absurd....unbelievably absurd. You are talking about the president that looked the people right in the eye....wagged his finger in their faces, and LIED.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, but George W. Bush has lied to the American people as well. He says that for him, war is the last option. He says that God told him to attack Iraq. Does anyone actually believe this? If war was the last option, we'd still be doing diplomacy instead of having 200,000 troops in the Persian Gulf. It's not a recent decision to attack Iraq either since it's been months since the first troops arrived to start an invasion. So you want to say Bush hasn't gone on television and lied? Please. The difference between what Clinton has done and what Bush has done is that Clinton lied about a personal affair. Wow. What a crime.

[quote]He lied under oath. He later admitted it! And you compare him to President Bush? <hr></blockquote>

Hey, lying is lying. The independent counsel *never* had a case against President Clinton, as much as you would have loved to see him removed from office. When it comes down to it, all he did was hide a personal affair, something about his personal life, from the American people. All that time and money was spent for nothing, and it kept Clinton from more important business. It was a modern day witch hunt by the 'high and mighty' Republican party, plain and simple.

[quote]Clinton is perhaps the most dishonest President in the history of this nation. Say what you about the economy and "being at peace" during his administration (also a lie), he was the very definition of "morally corrupt".<hr></blockquote>

Oh, how soon we forget about such crooks as President Nixon, who ordered a break in of DNC headquarters and then not only lied about it and tried to cover it up, but then proceeded to *fire* everyone around him including multiple independent counsels when they figured out what really happened. So you want to compare a President who was fooling around with a President who ordered illegal activities such as break ins, and say the one who was fooling around is the most dishonest and morally corrupt President ever? In your dreams. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #33 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>
Clinton is like 1000 times better than Bush, so that means he DIDN'T lie about getting a blow job! </strong><hr></blockquote>
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #34 of 161
Some of you people are dense.

I said, you believe Bush is more trustworthy than Saddam because you like him. That's the equivalent of a Clinton fan saying 'Bill Clinton is 1000 times better than Bush, so that means he DIDN'T lie about getting a blow job!'

It makes no sense, that's the point. Clinton lied. Bush is lying. Saddam is lying. You're putting Bush on a pedastal simply because you like him, not because he's actually trustworthy.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #35 of 161
[quote]Remember a few months ago when that Iraqi tried to flee into the cars of the UN inspectors? Blix' response was to turn him back over to the Iraqis for "such an inelegant way of approaching the Inspectors."<hr></blockquote>

got a link for that? i don't recall reading anything about that at all.
post #36 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>

got a link for that? i don't recall reading anything about that at all.</strong><hr></blockquote>I remember that . . . and it truly is shameful to think that he was not immediately given diplomatic immunity

after all these are the UN inspectors, aren't the Iraqis supposed to be 'trembling' before the possibility of what they might find?!?! and couldn't it be anything that they find, like the stories of a desperate man?!?!
it almost makes a good arguement for war
except that it still does not . .

[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

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--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #37 of 161
I had thought that guy was attacking the inspectors.
post #38 of 161
the only reason i ask for a link is that i don't have much of a problem with the job Blix is doing. i'd felt he was a guy stuck with a shit job that there's going to be no happy solution to.

HOWEVER. if what was described above actually happened, then he's done in my opinion. he's worthless, obviously not trying to actually find the answers. if you were really searching for this info, someone came running for their lives to tell you and you turn them away?

man, i'd put that on the news 24/7 and ask for his removal from the office. that's terrible.

however, i'm not going to beleive it unless i actually see an article on it from a reputable news source. too many claims from either side of the issue are unfounded nowadays for me to believe anything i don't see for myself.
post #39 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>the only reason i ask for a link is that i don't have much of a problem with the job Blix is doing. i'd felt he was a guy stuck with a shit job that there's going to be no happy solution to.

HOWEVER. if what was described above actually happened, then he's done in my opinion. he's worthless, obviously not trying to actually find the answers. if you were really searching for this info, someone came running for their lives to tell you and you turn them away?

man, i'd put that on the news 24/7 and ask for his removal from the office. that's terrible.

however, i'm not going to beleive it unless i actually see an article on it from a reputable news source. too many claims from either side of the issue are unfounded nowadays for me to believe anything i don't see for myself. </strong><hr></blockquote>I think that what occured was more sensative then it is charicterized here . . . . he needs to be able to continue what he is doing, what all the inspectors are doing, they can't suddenly become the airlift crew for the entire Iraqi people

That would be like faultuing the American airmen for leaving Vietnam without taking every single Vietnamese that wanted to leave . . . ..

anyway, the flip side is is that it might also have made a good scene which would have held things up and gotten teh ball rolling in other directions as well . . . <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #40 of 161
Thread Starter 
Fran, Fran, Fran.

We have tried diplomacy! 12 years of diplomacy! Bush isn't stupid...he knows that it probably won't work. But, there has been a serious effort anway. Do we all forget that it is the United States, led by the President personally, that called for new U.N. resolution?

And yes, I think Bush is guided by God. The Left will mock this and say it is dishonest. One thing I believe about Bush is that he wants this for what he considers to be the right reasons. You (and many others) may disagree with those reasons, but I'm sure he is steadfast in his beliefs.

Don't say "God told him to attack Iraq"...that's not what he said...it is a mischaracterization. He said he prays for guidance, wisdom and strength, and that he feels he is on the right course.

You also say that that war isn't a good idea because 35% of the people oppose it. At least you're honest...that's probably a fair number. However, what about the 65% of those of us who support it? One must also put Europe's opposition in context and perspective. Europe, on the whole, is passive, has been passive, and will remain passive. To quote Jay Leno "In WWII, not even the French defended France".

One last point: Speaking of France, I am growing more perplexed by the day regarding their actions. It is one thing to oppose military action, but to actively work to persuade security council members to vote agaisnt the U.S and Britain...that's just unbelieveable, don't you think? France has become an irrelavent power. Perhaps this is their way of trying to assert themselves. As an ally of both the US and Britain, they should not be actively acting working agaisnt us. It doesn;t even seem that our former enemy Russia is doing what they are.

[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
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