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HTC wants to negotiate a patent deal with Apple

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
An executive with smartphone maker HTC has indicated that his company is willing to broker a deal with Apple to settle their ongoing patent dispute.

Apple gained a key victory over HTC earlier this month, when a judge at the U.S. International Trade Commission ruled, in a preliminary decision, that HTC violated two patents owned by Apple. The iPhone maker has also filed a second complaint with the ITC against HTC.

But HTC had its own, indirect victory recently as well, as S3 Graphics won its case against Apple when the ITC ruling that two patents were violated. HTC recently acquired S3 graphics for $300 million, giving it a potential legal counter to Apple's own complaints.

In the latest twist, Winston Yung, chief financial officer of HTC, told Bloomberg on Tuesday that his company is willing to negotiate with Apple, and potentially settle their respective disputes out of court with a licensing agreement.

"We have to sit down and figure it out," Yung reportedly said. "We're open to having discussions."

The executive also revealed that his company has had "on and off" discussions with Apple, even before the recent ITC rulings were made. But he said he's not aware of any formal talks between the two companies since the latest ITC rulings in favor of Apple and S3. Both of those initial decisions are subject to final review by the commission.

Yung's comments suggest that the legal battle between HTC and Apple could play out similarly to the separate fight between Nokia and Apple. The Finnish handset maker struck a deal with Apple earlier this year after ITC staff sided with Nokia in a preliminary recommendation.

The out-of-court settlement features ongoing licensing fees, in addition to a one-time payment made from Apple to Nokia. The terms of the deal are unknown, but last week the company revealed it received a $600 million one-time royalty payment last quarter, suggesting Apple's payment did not exceed that sum.

Those in the industry -- and, in particular, manufacturers of Android-powered devices -- are closely watching the legal spat between Apple and HTC to see what impact it might have on the business. One analyst believes a victory for Apple over HTC could set a high royalty precedent for Android devices, similar to the $5 per unit that Microsoft collects on the sale of HTC Android hardware.

Other Android device makers have publicly backed HTC and criticized Apple's legal action. Last week, Acer accused Apple of inciting a "patent war" and being an instigator. For its part, HTC officials said earlier this month they believe Apple would rather sue than compete "fairly in the market."
post #2 of 64
FK them! No way Apple! Stick it to them and show them that free isn't so free! Google is the new evil.
post #3 of 64
In related news, local bank robbers have agreed to settle if the bank pays them a hefty fee and gives them a key to the vault.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #4 of 64
Several other Android vendors just shat their pants...

[... and HTC, with its S3 Graphics patent win, has really encouraged Apple to scoop up as many patents as possible.]
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post #5 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Several other Android vendors just shat their pants...

At least that's one thing they made themselves.
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post #6 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

At least that's one thing they made themselves.



The end-game approaches.
post #7 of 64
Made you blink!
post #8 of 64
Microsoft says to HTC

"Hey guys, we've got this really cool operating system that is shit free. No courtroom hassles. People will grow to love it. Just $29.99 each and during the 2 hours of this offer we'll throw in another copy absolutely free along with a set of steak knives!!"
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post #9 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

At least that's one thing they made themselves.

ROFL golden!

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post #10 of 64
this will absolutely set a precedence! NEXT! Samsung, Motorola, Acer, ZTE, etc.

in other news AAPL is at 403.56 !!!!!

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post #11 of 64
"For its part, HTC officials said earlier this month they believe Apple would rather sue than compete "fairly in the market." "

As opposed to HTC who would rather rip stuff off than compete fairly in the market.
post #12 of 64
The only thing HTC can sue for is when they buy up other original companies who happen to have patents that Apple has violated. Way to go HTC, quietly brilliant!
post #13 of 64
These 2nd rate copycats aren't even that good at copying Apple!

Android’s Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40%

vs.

iPhone 4's return rate of 1.7%



http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/26/and...rns-are-30-40/

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post #14 of 64
1. Denial: This is preposterous that anyone would accuse us of stealing patents
2. Anger: Apple has some nerve to make these claims
3. Bargaining: We're willing to talk to Apple about this
4. Depression: Sniff
5. Acceptance: Mr. Ballmer, there's a collect call for you, will you accept the charges?
post #15 of 64
"Make no mistake they want to kill the iphone. We won't let them" really comes to mind right now.
--SHEFFmachine out
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post #16 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

These 2nd rate copycats aren't even that good at copying Apple!

Androids Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40%

vs.

iPhone 4's return rate of 1.7%

http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/26/and...rns-are-30-40/

That article would be much better if the source wasn't some anonymous 'guy the author knows'. As it is, it's useless.

Also is there any chance you could possibly abstain from the horrible colours/fonts that you stuff into near every post? It looks kinda windows.
post #17 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

At least that's one thing they made themselves.

Yes, very innovative on their pants..... I mean their part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AC88 View Post

1. Denial: This is preposterous that anyone would accuse us of stealing patents
2. Anger: Apple has some nerve to make these claims
3. Bargaining: We're willing to talk to Apple about this
4. Depression: Sniff
5. Acceptance: Mr. Ballmer, there's a collect call for you, will you accept the charges?

post #18 of 64
yes, we'll be happy to negotiate a settlement, but it will have to wait about 17 years before we can get back to you on that.
post #19 of 64
Negotiate????
Isn't this what you should have done a long time ago when you knew you had been caught stealing? Instead you went to court, and for public pity. Good a thing nobody fell for your antics.
post #20 of 64
This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.

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post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In related news, local bank robbers have agreed to settle if the bank pays them a hefty fee and gives them a key to the vault.

Great analogy!

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post #22 of 64
Game, set, match.
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Those in the industry -- and, in particular, manufacturers of Android-powered devices -- are closely watching the legal spat between Apple and HTC to see what impact it might have on the business. One analyst believes a victory for Apple over HTC could set a high royalty precedent for Android devices, similar to the $5 per unit that Microsoft collects on the sale of HTC Android hardware. ...

Extinction Level Event. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_level_event

Paying Microsoft and Apple and Oracle for each and every copy of Android would be prohibitively expensive. The HTCs of the world work hard to shave pennies off their hardware costs. To pay $5 to Microsoft, $5 to Apple, and $5 or more to Oracle would force many Android cloners out of the market.

Of course, Oracle may not be willing to settle for money. Java is their intellectual property, and the lawsuit against Google requires all copies of Android to be "impounded and destroyed." There's your "Deep Impact."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120647/

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post #24 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.


HTC: "We'll pay Apple $5.00 for each Android clone we ship."

Apple: "We'll pay you $0.10 for each iPhone we ship. Deal."

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post #25 of 64
I am a strong believer that holders of patents and IP in general are entitled to due compensation in case of clear infringement, or to the right of forcing the infringing party to cease their offense. Having said this, IP is a complex minefield nowadays. Any company entering a crowded field like the mobile industry cannot avoid employing someone else's IP. Sometimes, an equitable licensing arrangement is negotiated up front. Sometimes, this happens after the fact, when the two parties parry first in the courts and subsequently across the negotiating table. Sometimes, both parties turn a blind eye in order to avoid a complicated legal chain reaction.

Apple is not a stranger to infringing other companies' IP rights. Look at their recent history of settlements. Look at their history of usurping other companies' trademarks (iThis, iThat ...), only to negotiate the rights well after the fact.

So, what I don't understand is how Apple fans are able to find the high horse to ridicule other companies for doing the very same thing Apple does, over and over again?

How is it that many of you confuse loving a company's products with defending the company on all fronts, even on fronts where the company itself has admitted to having erred here and there.

Just enjoy your Apple products. No need to kiss Apple's butt at every turn. No need to belittle every competitor of Apple. Don't forget, without competition, Apple would not be what it is today.
post #26 of 64
Apple paid Nokia for the privilege of using their innovations/patents.

Google/HTC/Samsung/Motorola/Huawei/ZTE/Acer should do the same to Apple, Microsoft and Oracle.

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post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

FK them! No way Apple! Stick it to them and show them that free isn't so free! Google is the new evil.

Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Microsoft says to HTC

"Hey guys, we've got this really cool operating system that is shit free. No courtroom hassles. People will grow to love it. Just $29.99 each and during the 2 hours of this offer we'll throw in another copy absolutely free along with a set of steak knives!!"

I use both an iPhone 3GS and an Samsung Omnia 7 (Windows Phone). Both are very nice phones...hardware and OS. If you haven't used the Windows Phone OS for an extended period of time you shouldn't be making fun of it.
post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.

A reasonable conclusion versus the rabble-raising-hate-mongering that laces most of these posts.
post #30 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.

Even though it seems that that would be the "right thing" to do, unfortunately, Google isn't he one building and shipping the infringing devices: HTC and its ilk are.

Apple has standing to sue the people who are actually shipping the devices.
post #31 of 64
Apple isn't in the patent licensing business, that's not their model. It seems the only time they have licensed patents is as a part of a cross-licensing deal or to end a suit against them (Nokia). I hope they stick to their guns and stick it to Google by way of their clients such as HTC. It seems like copy cats are using patent lawsuits against Apple solely as leverage to allow them to continue to profit from Apple's innovation.

I would rather see them capitulate to HTC's suit against them. Then refuse to license the Apple patents HTC is accused of infringing. Force them innovate or dump Android. There is no free lunch.
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post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

These 2nd rate copycats aren't even that good at copying Apple!

[B][COLOR="red"]Androids Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40%

vs.

iPhone 4's return rate of 1.7%

Maybe that's also accounting for a major load of Android activations. Many have tried multiple devices, activated them then returned them.
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post #33 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I would rather see them capitulate to HTC's suit against them. Then refuse to license the Apple patents HTC is accused of infringing. Force them innovate or dump Android. There is no free lunch.

I'm a little unclear here, what do you think Apple capitulating to HTC would entail? I'm guessing you think it's a license fee - if so why do you assume HTC would settle for a license fee if Apple won't?
post #34 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC88 View Post

1. Denial: This is preposterous that anyone would accuse us of stealing patents
2. Anger: Apple has some nerve to make these claims
3. Bargaining: We're willing to talk to Apple about this
4. Depression: Sniff
5. Acceptance: Mr. Ballmer, there's a collect call for you, will you accept the charges?

That should really be on a t-shirt.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Apple isn't in the patent licensing business, that's not their model. It seems the only time they have licensed patents is as a part of a cross-licensing deal or to end a suit against them (Nokia).

That has been true so far, but I wonder if that is about to change. Apple is beginning to evoke grumbling from regulatory bodies over buying a huge trove of patents. I think regulators would be
more understanding of Apple aggressively protecting (and refusing to license) their own inventions, than they would be of Apple hoarding patents it buys from others. Also these large troves of patents undoubtedly contain a number of patents which are not relevant to Apple products. I hope Apple begins to license a limited number of patents, both to assuage regulator concerns and to create a new source of revenue.
post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I use both an iPhone 3GS and an Samsung Omnia 7 (Windows Phone). Both are very nice phones...hardware and OS. If you haven't used the Windows Phone OS for an extended period of time you shouldn't be making fun of it.

Who's making fun of it?
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post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.

The Patents involve interaction with Hardware. Google isn't making the hardware.
post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

That has been true so far, but I wonder if that is about to change. Apple is beginning to evoke grumbling from regulatory bodies over buying a huge trove of patents. I think regulators would be
more understanding of Apple aggressively protecting (and refusing to license) their own inventions, than they would be of Apple hoarding patents it buys from others. Also these large troves of patents undoubtedly contain a number of patents which are not relevant to Apple products. I hope Apple begins to license a limited number of patents, both to assuage regulator concerns and to create a new source of revenue.

"Regulators" notwithstanding, patent holders are under no obligation to license anything. Or they can set confiscatory licensing rates.

A lot of people seem to be assuming that Apple is somehow obliged to go the MS route and charge what is presumed to be a reasonable and customary $5 per handset licensing fee, but that isn't true at all. They could demand $100 if they wanted, although of course they would be likely to get few takers.

I think it's much more likely that Apple will just stand pat and force Android handset makers to work around their patents. This of course will be broadly denounced as a hideous miscarriage of justice and a sign of Apple's Absolute and Dreadful Evil, but once a competitor has been found to be infringing they can demand that the infringing tech be removed or stop sales.

HTC of course knows this, and the fact that they're publicly positioning themselves as willing to make a deal suggests their lawyers have determined that Apple will prevail. I'm not sure they have anything to offer that Apple wants (and I'm pretty sure x money per handset isn't going to do it) but you never know.
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post #39 of 64
H T C will now start making iPhone'S




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post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

A reasonable conclusion versus the rabble-raising-hate-mongering that laces most of these posts.

Well put. It's been a while since I've since much other than what you've described. The first post in this one being 'FK google'? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Patents involve interaction with Hardware. Google isn't making the hardware.

If that's the case, if it's not directly relevant to the UX Apple might not have a problem licensing the patents. Apple consistently show that tech specs are basically irrelevant to most people's purchasing decisions. If they can make a quid selling technology which doesn't suppress their advantages, why wouldn't they?
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