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ITC agrees to investigate Samsung's patent case against Apple

post #1 of 18
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The U.S. International Trade Commission announced on Wednesday that it will investigate Samsung's patent infringement claims that have been levied against Apple.

Samsung filed the complaint in late June, and asked the ITC to ban the import of Apple products, which it believes are infringing on patents it owns. The complaint accused Apple of copying "many of Samsung's innovations" with the company's iPhone, iPad and iPod products singled out.

That the ITC has agreed to investigate the case doesn't mean much in and of itself, as the commission pursues a formal review of nearly every high-profile complaint it receives. Final decisions from the commission are typically issued within 16 to 18 months.

The ITC said Wednesday that its determination will come at "the earliest practicable time," and promised that it will set a target date for completing the investigation within 45 days after it has begun.

The case will be assigned to one of the ITC's five administrative law judges, who will schedule and hold an evidentiary hearing. The judge will then make an initial determination, and that determination will be subject to review by the full commission.

The same format is currently playing out in Apple's lawsuit against HTC. Earlier this month, an ITC judge ruled that HTC has violated two of Apple's patents, and the commission will issue a final determination on that initial judgment.

The courtroom battle between Apple and Samsung began in April, when Apple first sued Samsung for allegedly copying the look and feel of its mobile devices, specifically the iPhone and iPad. In subsequent filings, Apple has even referred to Samsung in court as "the copyist."

The growing legal battle makes for an uneasy situation between the two companies, as the success of the iPhone and iPad has made Apple the largest customer of Samsung. Apple is expected to buy some $7.8 billion in components from Samsung this year.



Apple executives maintain that, in spite of the dispute, Samsung remains a valuable partner in supplying components for the devices. But, rumors have swirled that Apple is planning to move away from Samsung when it begins production of the so-called "A6" processor in 2012. Apple will reportedly turn to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company for production of the chip.

High-profile lawsuits in the smartphone market have become a common part of doing business. Nokia and Apple were engaged in mutual complaints with the ITC accusing the other of patent infringement, but that issue was resolved with an out-of-court settlement in June, in which Apple agreed to pay an undisclosed licensing fee to Nokia.
post #2 of 18
Any specifics on what these alleged patent violations are?

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #3 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Any specifics on what these alleged patent violations are?

Presumably the same as Samsung has brought up in other complaints.

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...abusively.html
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Any specifics on what these alleged patent violations are?

These patents are actual hard written technology patents that can have far reaching ramifications vs a design patent lawsuit.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #5 of 18
They really need to overhaul the entire patent system. It doesn't work. Any modern device - even one as groundbreaking and innovative as the iPhone - is so complex it is almost guaranteed to violate someone's patents.

Personally I'd be happy if they pretty much get rid of them, especially software patents. Apple will be fine as they will keep innovating and putting new products out there.
post #6 of 18
There was a program on the subject of patent problems on NPR yesterday. Here is a link to both the transcript and an audio stream:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/...patents-attack

It's quite good and worth your time. Answers a lot of questions that get asked on these forums whenever the subject of patents comes up. One thing it doesn't answer is when is some legislator going to make this their cause and get legislation passed that fixes this "protection racket."
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post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

These patents are actual hard written technology patents that can have far reaching ramifications vs a design patent lawsuit.

Yes, but unfortunately for Samsung the most significant are all required patents in standards and thus come under FRAND.

You're so predicatable in your inability to mention anything that negatively impacts Samsung.
post #8 of 18
Have there always been so many patent disputes between corporations? or am I just new to all of this?
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Any specifics on what these alleged patent violations are?

Yeah, only AppleInsider could write an entire article about a copyright complaint Samsung has against Apple without mentioning what the complaint is.

People like to complain about Daniel's articles but at least he knows how to use proper English grammar and how to write an essay. People were supposed to have learned since Grade 8 about things like topic sentences and expository background information etc. Most of the articles here seem to be written by people with no grasp of English at all.
post #10 of 18
Apple copying Samsung's "innovations" ?????

I Want to VOMIT!

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post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Yes, but unfortunately for Samsung the most significant are all required patents in standards and thus come under FRAND.

You're so predicatable in your inability to mention anything that negatively impacts Samsung.

Isnt that what all "fanboys" (regardless of allegiance) do?

Speaking of "required" patents in standards... That makes it all the more valid for a royalty payment. Not only is Samsung going to go after Apple, it will go after the rest of the mobile phone industry. This would essentially "kill off" competition or at postpone introduction of new products or increase the cost of entering a market with a new product.

Lastly, remember ITC rulings are done much swiftly than the courts. Therefore, judgements can be issued way before the court can even get to see the initial preliminary hearing.
If Samsung would want to be a douche (supposing that it wins), they may even go as far as "ban" the imports of all the iOS products (highly unlikely).

This would be great news for the US economy as that would enable Apple to seriously think about setting up shop in the US for all of their production. Increased jobs, increase money flowing into the market, tighter security and protection of intellectual as well as future product information from being leaked. All good stuff for the US. Why Steve doesnt implement this, I have no clue. If Apple wants to gain more independence and less reliance on others for its supplies, it should set up its own supply chain/manufacturing base in the home state. With all that money sitting idly in the bank, what good is it doing for its shareholders if its not being used for good purposes? Are they distributing dividends? Hell no. Are they reinvesting into company expansion? Hell no. Its just sitting there like a happy potato.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Isnt that what all "fanboys" (regardless of allegiance) do?

...

This would be great news for the US economy as that would enable Apple to seriously think about setting up shop in the US for all of their production. Increased jobs, increase money flowing into the market, tighter security and protection of intellectual as well as future product information from being leaked. All good stuff for the US. Why Steve doesnt implement this, I have no clue. If Apple wants to gain more independence and less reliance on others for its supplies, it should set up its own supply chain/manufacturing base in the home state. With all that money sitting idly in the bank, what good is it doing for its shareholders if its not being used for good purposes? Are they distributing dividends? Hell no. Are they reinvesting into company expansion? Hell no. Its just sitting there like a happy potato.



Are you that clueless about business to believe this could happen? Can you even begin to imagine how much more expensive Apple products would end up being?

You are really clueless when it comes to finance as well.

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post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Yes, but unfortunately for Samsung the most significant are all required patents in standards and thus come under FRAND.

You're so predicatable in your inability to mention anything that negatively impacts Samsung.

Are these patents that are mandatory under standards that are maintained by organizations of which Samsung is a member or licensee? If so, then of course FRAND comes into play -- they would most likely lose their own membership or license if they refused to play nice with every other member and licensee of the standards body.

If Samsung is not a member or licensee of such a standards body, then they are absolutely at liberty to pick and choose who they want to license their tech to, and under what terms.
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

Are these patents that are mandatory under standards that are maintained by organizations of which Samsung is a member or licensee? If so, then of course FRAND comes into play -- they would most likely lose their own membership or license if they refused to play nice with every other member and licensee of the standards body.

If Samsung is not a member or licensee of such a standards body, then they are absolutely at liberty to pick and choose who they want to license their tech to, and under what terms.

Samsung is a member of the relevant bodies, but not all of the patents are encumbered. It's mentioned in the link I posted earlier in the thread. The fact that Samsung included encumbered patents in the suit would seem to indicate that the few unencumbered ones are of limited quality or infringement is uncertain.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Isnt that what all "fanboys" (regardless of allegiance) do?

Yes you do, those of us who are interested in the way things are rather than just cheering for a team however do not.

Quote:
Speaking of "required" patents in standards... That makes it all the more valid for a royalty payment. Not only is Samsung going to go after Apple, it will go after the rest of the mobile phone industry. This would essentially "kill off" competition or at postpone introduction of new products or increase the cost of entering a market with a new product.

Absolutely, royalties on a required patent are all but assured, but the royalty is of limited amount, whereas Apple with its unencumbered patents can demand essentially whatever it wants if it receives an injunction.

Quote:
Lastly, remember ITC rulings are done much swiftly than the courts. Therefore, judgements can be issued way before the court can even get to see the initial preliminary hearing.

Since all the ITC is able to do is issue an injuction, and since an injunction makes no sense in the case of a patent which MUST be offered under license, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the ITC will give one for any of Samsung's encumbered patents.

The rest of your post follows on from your unreasonable and incorrect assumptions, so isn't worth debating.
post #16 of 18
Let's see now. Mainland Chinese culture (and law) encourages rampant copying of intellectual property. It all belongs to "The People" anyway, eh comrade? Quick and dirty clones of designer brand goods (and even stores) are everywhere. And not just the "Apple Stoer" [sic] (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...il_stores.html).

OK. How about Korea? Well let's see. Ummm, Samsung is blatantly imitating Apple's flagship mobile products. And Samsung is currently one of Apple's major component suppliers. And guess what happens to suppliers that mess with Apple? (Hint: BOOM. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._macworld.html).

Japan? Too expensive, still recovering from the earthquake & tsunami.

Aha. Taiwan. They have intellectual property law and enforcement of said law. And Taiwan is the home of proven manufacturing partners, such as Foxconn, who stay in line. Foxconn also has factories in Mainland China, Europe, India, Mexico, and Brazil.

And maybe there are other Foxconn-wannabes in Taiwan as well...

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post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

OK. How about Korea? Well let's see. Ummm, Samsung is blatantly imitating Apple's flagship mobile products. And Samsung is currently one of Apple's major component suppliers. And guess what happens to suppliers that mess with Apple? (Hint: BOOM. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._macworld.html).

Ask yourself: Why did Apple choose Samsung in the first place?

Yeah, once you got most of the reasons (there certainly is more than one) pinned down, you ought to realize exactly why Apple cannot move away from Samsung.
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidhero View Post

Ask yourself: Why did Apple choose Samsung in the first place?

Yeah, once you got most of the reasons (there certainly is more than one) pinned down, you ought to realize exactly why Apple cannot move away from Samsung.

They can't in display panels, but they can in most everything else.
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