Nintendo to slash 3DS price by $80 as Apple gains in mobile gaming - Page 2

He never said the Wii was a flop. Where do you get that from? He said that Nintendo is on a downward spiral due to falling profits. I do believe, as well, that the Wii U will fail. The Wii was a quirk that I don't think Nintendo can repeat.

In addition to the rest of my posts on this subject, let's be real here. Yes, the iPhone and smartphone gaming market in general has exploded. However, I still don't believe the niche market of "hardcore" gamers who play very complex games and spend the most money on games view the iPhone as a good gaming device.

Most iPhone games are $5 or less. If they aren't 3D they don't really go for more than $2.

Most people have Angry Birds, maybe a couple of other random puzzle games, and most people probably play for 5 minutes a day while they are waiting to get a haircut or something like that.

The reality is that the market for complex and time consuming handheld games in the US has always been historically limited to ~6 years old to high school graduation. That's because people in the US with a real job commute to work, and only have time to play a little 5 minute game while they have some downtime in their day. If they play games at home, they will be using a home console.

Japanese people often have a long train commute and play very complex games that cost ~$40 each on their way to work every day. Like I said this is why the 3DS is the #1 console in Japan in weekly sales right now. I have a friend who never considered owning a console after middle school until he had a 40 minute train ride into Washington DC, and was then considering a PSP or DS.

I think the iPad is a much more compelling device for gaming, but again, these games don't exceed $5 and I still don't think they are played for long periods of time. A board game app would be about the limit of games that you would want to play for more than 20 minutes at a time (and board games aren't that much fun).

My whole purpose in saying all this is that I think it leads to these conclusions:
1. The 3DS has been sellling very well in places where public transportation is more prevalent
2. Reducing the price will put the 3DS into territory where it will sell just as well as previous Nintendo handhelds as they have the kids handheld market beyond the leapfrog age completely cornered and most parents are unwilling to spend big money (such as $250) on a handheld for their kids.
3. Even with the success of iPhone games, it will never merge with the gaming console market completely due to the lack of true gaming controls. Why would Sony make the PS Vita AND the Xperia Play? SIMPLE! The PS Vita gamer will never have a desire to play on compromised all-purpose controls with graphically simple games designed to be played in 5 minutes.
4. The market for complex games is much smaller than casual games, but hardcore gamers are more dedicated and spend more money and buy more games than a typical person, and there are enough of these types of people that it makes complete sense for a company to make hardware just for them completely ignoring phone functionality. This is exactly why the PS Vita has 3G without phone capability - these types of gamers will only play on a device optimized for their games. A hardcore gamer spending $40 on one PSP game is likely spending more money on games than most iPhone gamers will spend in ~5-10 years!!

Essentially what I'm saying is that if the iPhone was truly stealing the handheld market, the PS Vita and the Xperia Play would be the same product!

... and that misread has gotten me into trouble in other parts of the thread... oh, the life of a smart ass... that'll teach me!

It appeals much more to hardcore gamers as well as casual gamers alike. I can go on but I would be repeating my other posts. Its separate screen scheme is the most family friendly concept in gaming since someone decided to plug in two controllers. With gaming consoles being half Netflix consoles the Wii U will be great for when someone wants to play a game while a movie or show is displayed on the TV as well as the other gameplay concepts that I mentioned.

You may disagree that the controller isn't great or that the Wii U will flop because it's nothing special, but the fact remains that you haven't used it, it's a completely unique product, it is more cross platform friendly, and it's compatible with cheap motion controllers so it doesn't require a $150 investment like PS Move or kinect.

I did explain that you can't count the 3DS as a flop, which is why I was confused when the OP said "another flop" and I assumed he meant the Wii since it's Nintendo's most recent console that has been out for a significant period of time [EDIT: I thought you were replying to me, but someone else said the same thing that I did wondering why the one poster seemed to say that the wii was a flop. Whatever his reasons, my point is that for me or this other guy it was really easy to misunderstand which console that poster was talking about when he was talking about "another flop"]. The only flop Nintendo has ever had was the Virtual Boy. Even the Gamecube was highly profitable. The N64 and Nintendo's formerly strict rules made Nintendo bleed developers and they have been trying to recover ever since.

Nintendo's falling profits has more to do with the Yen, and with being in a transition phase from the Wii to the Wii U, as well as other business reasons that I don't think are highly related to Apple or any other smartphone ruining the handheld market. When Nintendo designed the Wii with weak hardware and no HD capability they limited the lifespan of the product. Don't forget that it's been out for 5 full years!

The 3DS has zero to do with the profits. Nintendo still sells a boatload of DS, DSi, and 3DS units. It is a launch console and anytime you launch a console you aren't going to be as profitable and Nintendo had already planned on that.

The Wii U will be more successful based on the fact that it is finally powerful enough to play cross platform games, even if you totally ignore its unique features. The only reason the Wii didn't have a great game library was for exactly this reason - every game had to be a unique Wii game, so therefore they were mostly terrible.

The Wii is NOT a quirk because if you look back historically, every new Nintendo console besides the GameCube contained some controller innovation that has been used by all the other console makers since. The DPad, shoulder buttons, analog stick, rumble, motion control, and with the Wii U, I'm sure future Sony or MS hardware will include a tablet functionality based on the popularity of the iPad and Wii U.

Good point! This is what one or two of my other way too long posts were talking about. Anyone who wants to play games for more than a small amount of down time are willing to buy a separate device!

Really my particular phone uses way too much battery even though I seldom play games on it.

That's why I don't think in the short term dedicated gaming handhelds are going anywhere nor will they suffer large sales losses due to the iPhone. Again, the kids' market will also remain unaffected.

there is no question the popularity of iPhones, iPod touches and Android phones as game players has heavily impacted the overall PGP market and taken a big cut from Nintendo's DS product line share. i don't know about Japan, but in the US any DS is strictly a grade school market product now - for "kids". few tweens and no teens would be caught dead with one. and in addition to that image problem, the much lower prices of iOS and Android games totally undercut Nintendo's high priced game business model. no one wants to pay more than $10 for a game anymore, and less is even better.

the 3D feature of the 3DS was supposed to be a big boost. but the terrible press about how looking at it too long could hurt children's eyes (i've no idea if that is true or not) was a marketing disaster. no parent who heard of that would buy one.

last year's PSP Go was a total flop too. that has been explained away as being a result of the several big mistakes Sony made with its design/business model. well, maybe. we will see what happens with the new Sony Vita, whose big new feature is seamless integration with PS 3 games (and new gimmick is some kind of virtual reality gaming, instead of 3D). but there won't be any more excuses left.

so both of the former market leaders' 2009/10 "next gen" PGP's have flopped. was that a one-time glitch due to one-time mistakes? or was it the advent of a permanent shift in the PGP market to smartphone-like devices - and now tablets too? that can do a lot more than just play games?? (i mean, is there a Vita or 3DS Facebook app? no? forgeddit!)

i very much think the latter. we'll find out in the upcoming absolutely crucial 2011 holiday sales quarter.

btw, i would not be surprised at all to see Apple release a 5.5" version of the iPod touch in September. that could really be the nail in the Sony/Nintendo PGP coffin, especially if packaged with Apple TV for HDTV screen mirroring.

Before you say it has nothing to do with Apple, remember Nintendo said it some months ago that Apple is the new enemy.

So yes Nintendo itself agrees that the iOS devices are affecting them.

You could say the 3DS is crap, but it would sell more if iOS devices where not in existence.
Look on Youtube and see how many people are buying iOS devices for their kids these days. It's crazy!

You are all overlooking one very important point - similar to Apple products, the first new Nintendo handheld released in a generation is always a "rough draft" whose flaws are corrected, and features fleshed out, in a subsequent product revision. They've been doing this ever since the Game Boy Pocket refreshed the original Game Boy in 1995, and effectively established a two-year cycle with the Game Boy Advance.

The point is, I think this is a big reason why sales are low. The thing is expensive for what it does, and Nintendo has trained people to expect a new one every two years, so they're sitting on the sidelines.

To those claiming this has nothing to do with Apple, Nintendo is struggling because consumers are buying cheaper, more versatile, and more sophisticated devices. And just who do you think is offering those devices?

(And yes, a iPhone with accelerometer , compass, GPS, touch, better graphics, and hardware/OS that puts dedicated portable gamers to shame IS flat out superior. Sorry )

Yes it has nothing to do with apple., The DS went through the same problems before nintendo started to release its good games for the system. So the 3ds is having the same problems as the ds was having.

I don't think anyone would say it has NOTHING to do with Apple but rather that Apple is affecting Nintendo to a much lesser degree than other factors in the market. Where Apple can hurt Nintendo is in stealing away the most casual gamers who have no interest in buying new dedicated gaming hardware. People looking for a dedicated portable gaming device are definitely not cross-shopping the 3DS and the iPhone; people who are looking for a device that is portable and is capable of playing games might cross-shop the two.

As for your claim that the iPhone is a superior piece of gaming hardware, I don't know what you could possibly mean by that unless you're talking about which gadget is glossier. The iPhone puts nothing to shame (in spite of it's attractive shell), but it does very well considering its limited gaming resources as compared to those of true portable gaming systems.

It is very natural for Nintendo profits to fall at the end of a cycle/beginning of next cycle.

Always room for dedicated gaming machine too. iOS doesn't have a high quality developer like Nintendo making games on it. And iOS is lacking physical gaming controls. Those touchscreen joysticks just don't cut it. Neither do touchscreen buttons.

So 3ds will do fine. I'm sure Touch will take away some customers, but anyone wanting high quality games will get a 3ds.

Hell folks that have smartphones I bet are more likely to buy a 3ds than others. They are probably more into tech/games, have more money and maybe don't want to wear down their smartphone battery all the time.

Nintendo is definitely going to have to adjust to the market. They have to provide more non-gaming features and give more value in their great games.

Great post.

I'm sorry but you're just nuts here. Nintendo has been moving further and further into casual gaming, and away from 'high quality' games demanding sophisticated controls. Nintendogs players are likely to find things to amuse them on iOS.


You would lose your bet, which is why 'Sony is working on new portable hardware and moving closer to the mobile market with plans to make its PlayStation software available on Android devices.'

http://gigaom.com/2011/04/15/ios-and...-game-revenue/

It will be sad to see such an industry heavyweight fall. Gaming would not be what is today without Nintendo. But the writing has been on the wall for at least the last three years. I knew for sure that they were treading water when they started drawing heavily on their back catalogue

The Wii initially looked very prosperous but most of the successful games were Nintendo staples. Zelda Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are seriously good games. But once the shelves were crammed with shovelware there remained little incentive for developers to create something inspired.

The Wii U is completely underwhelming. I stayed up until the wee hours of the morning to watch the announcement live and within 5 minutes I knew I wasnt interested at all. Resisitive mono-touch inputs have already been boxed and buried by capacitive multitouch. Its just way too conservative an update to compete. They failed to see that the iPad disrupted the console gaming market even more than the Wii did. They really needed to consolidate their offering around a solid online platform instead of showcasing gimmicky gameplay.

The 3D effect on the 3DS is just way too finicky for actual use. The DS Lite also wasnt region locked which has been a critical point of failure (outside of the US) on every DS released since.

At the moment my gaming is a mix of PC and iPad. That is Nintendos problem.

It's sad and funny at the same time. Nintendo would make a killing selling some of their games on iOS.

Can you imagine a networked Mario Kart on an iPad 2? Bring back some old school Donkey Kong. They wouldn't be losing money in that market.

This thread is kind of amusing. Nintendo are massive, in an extraordinary way that is not often talked about -- largely by the fact they are Japanese and in the videogame industry - both of which the mass media often ignore. Nintendo racked in HUGE profits with the Wii and DS, where the DS was outselling the iPod in its heyday. These things were printing oozes of cash for Nintendo.

Now, here we have a slight mistep with a slow console launch and the mob calls it the "downward spiral" and "flop" that is Nintendo... Apple should just buy them outright... Nintendo need to release a phone... $5 iOS gaming is the future...

Right...

It's the visionaries, not sheep, that find success in this business, and we're damn lucky people on message boards aren't running these companies.

interestingly...i still hear they may not upgrade the touch....How supremely foolish.

Zzz... I have an iPhone and iPad. For everything else, there's Xbox360 (which I am hoping to get as soon as I throw my gaming PC out the window).

With apologies to MasterCard...

How supremely foolish of you to "hear" this, particularly when it has never been said and brand new evidence shows that they're absolutely updating it.

The price slash could also attribute to the 3DS also being a complete load of crap. The sheer number of 3DS consoles in the "Pre-Owned" section in every shop I walk into is almost biblical.