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Court blocks Personal Audio from pursuing further damages from Apple

post #1 of 77
Thread Starter 
A U.S. District Judge said Friday that the $8 million in damages Apple has to pay to patent licensing company Personal Audio for violations of a playlist patent from the iPod covers "past and future use of the technology" and should extend to the iPhone and iPad.

Apple was ordered by the U.S. District Court in Eastern Texas early this month to pay damages to Personal Audio. Within weeks, the non-practicing entity had filed a second suit seeking damages for alleged infringement of Apple's iPhones and iPads, which had not been included in the original suit.

Personal Audio had reasserted U.S. Patent No. 6,199,076, entitled "Audio Program Player Including a Dynamic Program Selection Controller," in its second suit.

But, Bloomberg reports that District Judge Ron Clark decided on Friday that Apple's $8 million in damages would provide a license for products not specifically named in the original complaint. The court finds that the jurys selection of lump sum as the appropriate form of reasonable royalty clearly represents a damages award giving Apple a fully paid up license that covers all past and future use of the patented technology, Clark said.



Filed in 2009, Personal Audio's original suit had asked for $84 million in damages and also accused Sirius XM Radio, Coby Electronics and Archos of violating its patents. The complaint was filed in East Texas, which is known for making quick and favorable decisions for patent holders.

Recent job postings discovered by AppleInsider reveal that Apple is looking for reinforcements for its legal team. In addition to disputes with non-practicing entities such as Personal Audio and Lodsys, Apple is currently locked in fierce patent-related legal battles with several competitors, including HTC and Samsung.
post #2 of 77
Good to hear one less patent troll to take away from the iPhone 5 elevator photos!
post #3 of 77
Served you well, patent troll!
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Fun and relaxing way to prepare Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) test with Juku Apps
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post #4 of 77
The judge should have taken the $8 million back and bitch slapped 'em for being so greedy.
post #5 of 77
Well, that's one bridge that troll burned!
post #6 of 77
To solve all these patent cases: just make ME a judge.
Would takes me seconds ruling in each case (in favor of Apple)
post #7 of 77
When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world
post #8 of 77
Awesome news. Everyone is wanting to get a piece of the $75 billion in cash Apple has in reserves.
post #9 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

The judge already threw your case out. Move along now.
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #10 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

It looks like someone doesn't understand the definition of "patent troll."
post #11 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world


Correct me if I am wrong, but is this site not a Mac/Apple enthusiast site? If you are not an Apple 'Fan' then why not 'troll' off to some other site where your opinions may be more valid?
post #12 of 77
delete
post #13 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world


Except that, hysteria aside, it is not a troll by any definition except yours (whatever it may be). Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll (or the cited reverences). A patent troll:

- Purchases a patent, then sues another company. claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent;[7]

- Enforces patents against purported infringers without intending to manufacture the product;[13][14]

- Enforces patents but has no manufacturing or research base;[15]

- Focuses its efforts solely on enforcing patent rights;[16] or

- Asserts patent infringement claims against non-copiers.[17


Apple defends patents on products that it makes and sells. Isn't that what the patent laws are for??
post #14 of 77
Problem is patent cases usually are decided by a Jury not a judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

To solve all these patent cases: just make ME a judge.
Would takes me seconds ruling in each case (in favor of Apple)
post #15 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_b View Post

Awesome news. Everyone is wanting to get a piece of the $75 billion in cash Apple has in reserves.

Well, that's how the world has always worked hasn't it.
post #16 of 77
This sounds like a relatively obvious result. The general idea is that parties need to litigate their entire case before the court. Litigation is expensive, takes resources and time and substantial taxpayer money to support, so when you get your day in court, you need to ensure all relevant issues are presented. It also prevents litigants from using the courts to simply harass each other. That is, there must be finality.

The plaintiffs made a strategic decision not to argue all the issues thinking the damages would be higher. They lost and now they are stuck.

The judicial doctrines involved here are res judicata and collateral estoppel.
post #17 of 77
The term came from the classic stories of trolls who hid under bridges and then surprised the unexpecting people (and creatures) who wished to cross the bridge claiming the bridge was theirs and those crossing the bridge were going to be eaten.

Apple wouldn't be a patent troll by any definition. Classic patent trolls are those who hold patents strictly for the purpose of exacting a license from somebody (as opposed to actually developing anything) whereby the patent trolls will hold the patents quietly and wait for unexpecting companies to rely on ideas that arguably represents the patent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lochias View Post

Except that, hysteria aside, it is not a troll by any definition except yours (whatever it may be). Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll (or the cited reverences). A patent troll:

- Purchases a patent, then sues another company. claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent;[7]

- Enforces patents against purported infringers without intending to manufacture the product;[13][14]

- Enforces patents but has no manufacturing or research base;[15]

- Focuses its efforts solely on enforcing patent rights;[16] or

- Asserts patent infringement claims against non-copiers.[17


Apple defends patents on products that it makes and sells. Isn't that what the patent laws are for??
post #18 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

This sounds like a relatively obvious result. The general idea is that parties need to litigate their entire case before the court. Litigation is expensive, takes resources and time and substantial taxpayer money to support, so when you get your day in court, you need to ensure all relevant issues are presented. It also prevents litigants from using the courts to simply harass each other. That is, there must be finality.

The plaintiffs made a strategic decision not to argue all the issues thinking the damages would be higher. They lost and now they are stuck.

The judicial doctrines involved here are res judicata and collateral estoppel.

Actually it sounds like it's a little more complicated than that. Had PA been granted an injunction, and then negotiated a license specific to the ipods they perhaps could have gone and litigated again on different products, However they were instead granted damages, and the judge determined that those damages constituted payment for a license to the patents in perpetuity.
post #19 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

shut the front door Troll..
post #20 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by doogley View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this site not a Mac/Apple enthusiast site? If you are not an Apple 'Fan' then why not 'troll' off to some other site where your opinions may be more valid?

Yahtzee
post #21 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lochias View Post

Except that, hysteria aside, it is not a troll by any definition except yours (whatever it may be). Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll (or the cited reverences). A patent troll:

- Purchases a patent, then sues another company. claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent;[7]

- Enforces patents against purported infringers without intending to manufacture the product;[13][14]

- Enforces patents but has no manufacturing or research base;[15]

- Focuses its efforts solely on enforcing patent rights;[16] or

- Asserts patent infringement claims against non-copiers.[17


Apple defends patents on products that it makes and sells. Isn't that what the patent laws are for??

Ummm...Apple is in the process (along with other companies) of buying up patents. Those patents will have to be then defended, so Apple fall into catagory 1:

" - Purchases a patent, then sues another company. claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent;[7]"
post #22 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

Duh! And your point is

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply
post #23 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by doogley View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this site not a Mac/Apple enthusiast site? If you are not an Apple 'Fan' then why not 'troll' off to some other site where your opinions may be more valid?

I love the sweet smell of defeat in the morning! Come again and again Acnababi.

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply
post #24 of 77
Could someone be so kind as to explain exactly what feature on my iPhone and iPad it is that Personal Audio thinks they invented? Thanks.
post #25 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by donarb View Post

The judge should have taken the $8 million back and bitch slapped 'em for being so greedy.

lol That would've been funny as hell
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post #26 of 77
edit: (Wrong thread. What am I, a newb?)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #27 of 77
Lord, don't tell me someone in the East Texas court has actually developed a brain!
post #28 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

Yes, because Apple actually produces the things they patent.
What don't you understand about that difference?
post #29 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls...
...magical good in fanboi world



Apple is the most-sued tech company in the world:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...lawyer_up.html

Defenses against such attacks include:

* Buying patents first before someone else can use them against you. And if you have a patent, you must defend it.

* Owning patents that give you leverage against those who sue you: match their suit with your own, so that both parties can settle and cross-license.

* Owning patents that give you an advantage over the competition, to help your products compensate for patents they simply wont license to you.

* Fighting back with every legal means you have, to discourage a growing flood of suits against you.

The game exists, sadly, and Apple didnt create it. Can Apple choose not to play? No, they cant.

Do we see Apple extorting money using patents that are irrelevant to Apples business? Ive seen no such evidence. In which case, Apple is not a "patent troll." Just the biggest victim of patent suits (from trolls and competitors alike).
post #30 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by doogley View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this site not a Mac/Apple enthusiast site? If you are not an Apple 'Fan' then why not 'troll' off to some other site where your opinions may be more valid?

Last I saw this was not applefansonly.com

Are we supposed to pledge allegiance to apple just to have an interest or opinion? If so, I must have missed that in the sign up.
post #31 of 77
Quote:
The complaint was filed in East Texas, which is known for making quick and favorable decisions for patent holders.

Isn't the law the law? Oh yea, it's the system...
post #32 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Could someone be so kind as to explain exactly what feature on my iPhone and iPad it is that Personal Audio thinks they invented? Thanks.

Their ability to use playlists essentially, the PA patent concerned described a music player capable of receiving and playing a playlist.
post #33 of 77
A "patent troll" is a company which often has "...no intention to manufacture or market the patented invention" in question.

Because Apple does not fit this definition, Apple is likely no patent troll.
post #34 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

But of course Apple can do nothing but evil in hater world.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #35 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Lord, don't tell me someone in the East Texas court has actually developed a brain!

Yes, but unfortunately they are required to share it with everyone else in that particular district.
post #36 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post

Last I saw this was not applefansonly.com

Are we supposed to pledge allegiance to apple just to have an interest or opinion? If so, I must have missed that in the sign up.

Resistance is futile. See the light. Be one with us. Let the magic fill your soul. A P P L E A P P L E A P P L E...
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #37 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post

Last I saw this was not applefansonly.com

Are we supposed to pledge allegiance to apple just to have an interest or opinion? If so, I must have missed that in the sign up.

Well next time read what you are agreeing to before signing up.
post #38 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

But of course Apple can do nothing but evil in hater world.

Let him hate. There will always be bitter, little people like him. But it doesn't hurt people who use and like Apple products, of which there are more every day. Maybe one day, Apple will actually fall. Until then, I'm not worried about it.
post #39 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

When Apple files it's "making sure they protect their innovation" if someone else does it's trolling...

Apple is one of the worst patent trolls, but of course Apple can do nothing but magical good in fanboi world

Wow, you sir are a tool. Looks like you don't even know the definition of patent troll. The difference between Apple and "Patent Trolls" is that Apple actually uses it's IP to create tangible products while the trolls write down an idea on paper, and sue anybody that tries to use the idea.

Good try though, fool.
post #40 of 77
Personal Audio got really greedy.
They wanted more Apple pie.
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