First look: Adobe Edge promises Flash-style animation with HTML5 - Page 2

Agreed but animation simply for the sake of pizazz is really annoying whether it be HTML or Flash. If your presentation needs animation to communicate an idea such as rotating a 3D object with user interaction, a training simulation etc. then fine, but to just fade and move objects for no useful purpose is so passé. I really like the new simplicity web page style that has emerged recently.

But to say HTML5 is going to be as full featured as Flash is just incorrect and has nothing to do with an IDE or GUIs in a content creation application. To do really useful things with HTML5 you need to code by hand. To drag and drop animations is just pathetic.

Oh goody, crap flash animation ads now in HTML5. What an improvement!

It's been nearly 4 years since this flash topic became a topic. Android had used "support flash" as a feature since 2009.

Adobe had became a lazy company. They don't really improve their product until forced to do so, even then they fail a lot of times.

"Skate to where the puck will be..."

Adobe could've easily been the premier (small "p") developer of leading-edge HTML5 tools. They probably still can be, with the right amount of focus and effort.

IMO, it's risky on Adobe's part to ignore a developing market with a huge upside, but it's sheer hubris to ignore it over a spat with Apple over Flash on iOS devices.

So how much do you think Adobe will sell this for? 2, 3 hundred pounds?


I think I love you!

I'm still figuring wtf does Adobe Bridge do!

It's sad that Hype doesn't support vector graphics last time I checked... does it?

How do you think a lot of stuff is done in flash? Hand coding. The useful stuff anyway - and the actionscript language is also a subset of EMCA script, same with Javascript. Webkit browsers now have 3D accelleration (WebGL) and Javascript now has threads (workers) where actionscript does not. HTML5 has already shown it can be just as capable as Flash (search for html5 demos, or web gl demos if you use chrome or safari on lion with gl enabled in the developer menu). Saying HTML5 is not as capable as flash is a crock of bull.

Is there a one-button Import Flash--Export to Edge feature?

Apple shows the way again, by supporting the superior HTML5.
All platforms will benefit.

HTML5 cannot even query a database without the help of php. There are tons of functions that Flash has that HTML5 does not. Sure there are a great many things that can be done with HTML5/JS/CSS but the point I'm was attempting to make is that simply making animations more accessible for artists does not impress me. I code by hand for both Actionscribpt as well as for all my web code projects.

Hopefully "Click to Flash", whoops "Click to HTML", will function.

What's wrong with using PHP?

The solution is in blocking ad domains. Then it doesn't matter what containers they use.

Nothing, just pointing out that HTML5 is not as full featured as Flash. HTML5 cannot send email either. Both platforms are very useful, but to say HTML5 is this or that, what is usually implied is that HTML5 with Javascript with CSS with PHP can do quite a bit but HTML5 by itself != Flash.

Well, you can always buy stand alone program if you don't want fifteen programs. But it's not a bad deal to buy the whole Suite.

For instance non-Adobe prototyping tool iRise cost $10,000 and it offers only a small fraction of features you would get form CS. iRise is a bad deal.

Considering that it's usually written with a variation of 'HTML/CSS/JS" it's well known that no single part of open web standards can compete with the entirety of Flash. That doesn't mean that Flash is superior because it tries to be everything to everyone. We've seen and have been dealing with the inefficiencies of Flash on our limited system resources for years now. Adobe has had 4.5 years to get Flash to work well and they still have yet to make it a great even under the Android handsets yet within that time we've seen web standards solidify and WebKit take hold as a de facto efficient browser engine. Adobe has no choice but to adapt or die.

Hype does support SVG

http://tumultco.com/hype/documentati.../#elementtypes

I'm not promoting anything. I just took exception to the original comment that "Saying HTML5 is not as capable as flash is a crock of bull." mostly because it is an emotional outburst with no substantive argument to which I easily offered a couple of very provable counter arguments. I like HTML5 just fine. It has its shortcomings as do all applications, but it is certainly not the second coming of the Messiah as some on this board would lead you to believe.

I don't read that statement as strictly as you do. I see that mean all open web code like PHP, JS, CSS, et al. If there is a second coming of the internet it is HTML5 as the messiah and the open standards wire men, not Flash with its resource-sucking demonism.

Resource sucking is a relatively arbitrary argument because all you can do is say when I visit a movie page my battery is depleted more rapidly than it would using HTML5. There is no control in that experiment because the code is only roughly equivalent. As another poster pointed out, well written Flash does not drain the battery any more than well written HTML5 and I'm sure the inverse of that is just as true. But again I'm not here to promote Flash except in the instances where it is a better tool for a particular application, of which are quite few and far between. I'm very content with no animation whatsoever of any type because it is generally a distraction to the informative content on the page.

No question Flash is over used and quite annoying to have to suffer through when there is no point or it is an offensive advertisement, but until HTML5 is rendered with equally dependable results on all browsers Flash will remain the fall back solution for those applications that do need dynamic multimedia content. Developers still need to write at least three contingencies to any page that relies on such content, especially video.

Flash, Silverlight, and Java are evolutions of years of proprietary application development. They are completely self contained and full featured. You might think of them as luxury SUVs with wood grain dashboards, and automatic everything. Unlike the auto at the turn of the century where you bought a chassis from one company, an engine from another and finally a body from an independent coach builder.

HTML/CSS/JS and PHP are assembled in a similar method to the old fashion way that luxury autos were built. You assemble the pieces and parts that you want, each being custom tailored to your exact needs. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but just as many people are incapable of building their own car, experts will prefer the custom approach which is why high performance cars today are built in that same manner. Putting a user friendly GUI on a custom process is extremely difficult to do since they are polar opposites in their general philosophic approach to the building of a website.

This Edge application simply makes it easier for novices to do a terrible job of assembling the bits and pieces that could otherwise be a high performance website in the hands of an experienced hand coder. Instead you end up with the same crap that is a bunch of mismatched animation to doll up an already useless web page.

Human nature; deep investment in existing dominant tech (Flash). Glad to see they're getting moving. I've been waiting for tools like this for a long time.

More and more work is leveraging PHP, Python, Ruby whether it be Drupal 7, Django, Joomla, Ruby on Rails 3, Symfony 2 [all of which have adopted jQuery and other such Javascript Libraries/Frameworks] to do a lot of what you see on the Internet.

Large scale content managment controlled solutions are leveraging those PHP/Python off the shelf Free Tools and the Artist is focused on the Theme Development for them.

Adobe is addressing the small site developer, not a dynamically driven solution that will adapt various frameworks and languages to scale as needed.

The bulk of the money is in Consulting mid-tier to n-tier site production.

Deeply versed development of these APIs and their accompanying languages are desired by a large portion of the Fortune 1000.

Backend Enterprise Services development is around 98% Java/EJB. That won't change unless Apple reintroduces a new WOF X [returned to Cocoa] that allows all the benefits of iOS, the Cloud and OS X to be fully extended end-to-end, and that would still require foresight into Apple's tools easily cohabiting with Java/EJB.

Either way, Adobe's expensive investment into Macromedia is not paying off too well for them.

These Site Builder Tools will never have a solid foothold into the Web Development circles. Most folks have a tailored IDE or even a Text Editor and when compiled code is needed they sure as hell aren't working with a WYSIWYG Editor solution.

WebSockets, Drag n' Drop, WebGL, Canvas, etc. require knowledge of TCP/IP, BSD Sockets, UI Development from traditional environments, OpenGL, etc., and no most Artists aren't into such backgrounds.

Well, the main goal of Macromedia acquisition was killing the main competitor and establishing monopoly on comprehensive suite of creative tools. Not a bad deal for 3.4 bil. On the way they picked up popular now Dremweaver, Flash technology, Fireworks, Director, Photographer, Freehand (killed).

Slightly interesting, in the video they're using MacBook's.

I think this looks pretty cool for a v1 preview. I'm looking forward to v2 preview, hopefully they will add the use of creating buttons and http links.

I'm curious - will they eventually add the ability to import video/audio or will that only be possible in the Flash CS6 and able to save that as HTML5?

Thanks Adobe for listening to your users and the competition. Adapt or get left behind.

True but both are nice to have.

So, how do I block this shit?

Let's be frank here, folks. I kinda like the status quo. I can access nearly all the content I want and avoid what I don't by using Click2Flash and AdBlock. The ONLY 'practical' use I've seen for HTML5 has been ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video. We've also seen a bunch of battery-draining demos like pointless embedded 3D graphics. The kool factor is so high here I'm choking.

Someone convince me this html5 stuff is going to improve my browsing experience. I surf for news/weather, web forums, and do comparison shopping. I turn my Mac on, get my data, and turn it off. I seem to be spending more and more time trying to figure out how to dismiss f-ing in-window pop-ups. It's becoming a nightmare.

Playing with Hype and Edge yesterday I am struck how both are designed as after thoughts to the web page development process for those of us designers reliant on wysiwyg tools rather than hand coding. In Edge you can modify an already created page made in another program and Hype creations can easily be dropped in to a snippet.

The problem comes with Edge when you update the page in the normal app if it is not from Adobe, (no doubt the final Edge will integrate into a massively complex Adobe multi-application structure to cope with this).

It would seem to me the best solution for now for those of us not wanting to drink Adobe's cool aid, (although Hype is very limited at present), is the snippet approach since page updates don't break this. Even better would be if the abilities were simply part of the web development applications themselves thus updating pages would not break any additions or potentially mess with the layout.

BTW, I would like to see the team behind Hype continue iWeb development since Apple are not going to and build Hype right into iWeb (pro). Plus greatly increase the abilities of Hype. A stand alone Hype should coexist as now of course.

I don't want to use this for making terrible ads or really annoying start up pages like Flash users have done for years (most clicked link on the web has to be "click to skip intro') but rather to be able to use HTML5 where needed for those things that befit such as video delivery (which Hype is very weak at presently BTW). But I admit there are a few times when a web page can greatly benefit from some level of interactivity. Selecting a color and seeing the product change for example is just one, or interactive maps and plans for another are greatly improved using HTML5.

We are just at the beginning of all this so I do expect wysiwyg web development apps to soon create HTML5 in their own right and the Hype folks must realize they need to be on board ASAP as simple 'ad on' utilities will have a limited life span IMHO since they only exist as nothing else can yet do this.

Fun times though

I'm not defending Adobe or arguing on the merits of Macromedia's purchase (although i was sad that happened) but I do feel you are overly denigrating the 'low end' of web development. I recall RIM having a similar lofty attitude towards products aimed at the corporate market and scorning the masses. Just saying

What if I developed a web site for a museum with tons of interactive pages where you could click on an object and see info or a video etc. Done in Flash it would most likely have your MBP frying your knees but in HTML5 it can work without the thermal pain.

Not all uses of HTML5 need be to sell you car insurance. As to ultra annoying ways of showing video, what about YouTube, set by Click to Flash to be HTML5 only? Isn't that an improvement and a good use of HTML5? It is not all about ads.

What would be nice (he said ready to be flamed) is if ads had to carry a metatag stating they were an ad, be they HTML5 or Flash, that could be used to opt in or out in any browser. Ads failing to carry this tag would result in a warning, cease and desist then a fine.

Ok I can dream can't I?

Uh, why would you have to use Flash or HTML5? Click on an object for a video? We've had the embed tag since 1995.

BTW HTML5 isn't necessary for click2flash ability. QuickTime would also have worked, using embed tags instead of movie tags.


The reason YouTube used flash to begin with was because everybody had it, so nobody had to install another plug-in. They could have used QuickTime, but then how do you embed ads if it's just a video stream?


Yea, didn't pass the laugh test.

The question still remains: how do I block this shit?

I'm ok with this this if they cut Flash down to just the tasks that HTML 5 can't handle. It's fine to have a stop-gap so long as it's treated like one.

Unencrypted embedded Flash video for example should be removed from Flash entirely and published via the HTML 5 video tag.

For every feature that HTML 5 has, remove it from the Flash plugin and have the two integrated with Javascript calls.

This will reduce the Flash plugin to only rich content that browsers are incapable of handling natively.

Is that a serious post? You want to know how to block HTML -and- you are unaware of any practical uses for HTML5 other than "ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video"? Trying doing a search for HTML5 and reading up on it.

Is this a serious post? Instead of being condescending you could provide a real example of such a practical use.

I'm well aware of what HTML5 does and how it is currently deployed, do you? Originally SVG graphics was just a way to render paths because html/sgml was used instead of something more like postscript. The web has evolved into a fucking esoteric tag-infested jargon circus that needs gigahertz machines with gigs of RAM just to 'run' (remember when we used to simply render web pages?).

Oh, and check out how Flash is currently deployed. It's on this interweb thingy. That's the future of html5 deployment. Annoying, pointless animations. The only reason we aren't currently inundated with this crap is because Adobe has been so slow in adopting it. The tools simply don't exist yet.

The thing is, it's trivial to block Flash. How do you block html5? You don't think this is a legitimate concern?

Most of the animations will use the HTML 5 canvas element, some will use Javascript. An extension should be able to run through the DOM and strip out the Canvas elements or load them on request. As always, where there's a will, there's a way.

Nope. Because you just block certain tags that contain the ads. Just like now.

Agreed. I have bought Deus Ex 3, and am waiting to see what happens.
Regarding Steam, I have relented and stored my password on the Mac, since if I refuse, anytime I take my laptop to a place where I have no Internet (plane, camping site, train trip, car trip, mountain hike...) Steam prevents me from playing games. If my laptop gets stolen, and my account therefore compromised, I swear I'm going after their ass for endangering purposedly my account's safety.

And you can block calls to *.theAdvertiserThatSucks.com