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Australian Apple lawsuit halts sales of Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 - Page 2

post #41 of 155
This is nothing more than a company defending it's patents, as it should do. How is this monopolistic?
post #42 of 155
Some interesting reading for you guys about patents.

http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/21/ten-...about-patents/

It should put things into places.
post #43 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

Some interesting reading for you guys about patents.

http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/21/ten-...about-patents/

It should put things into places.

Samsung have 40,000 patents in the US alone, they love patents - just not these patents apparently. As for your link, only a complete freetard thinks that pharmaceutical firms would continue to invest billions in drug discovery without patents.
post #44 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

Some interesting reading for you guys about patents.

http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/21/ten-...about-patents/

It should put things into places.

Oh great, you are one of those "all patents are evil and companies should copy to their hearts' content and let the market decide" zealots. That crap doesn't fly with me. No company should get a huge discount in R&D at another company's expense which I think is the case with Samsung.
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post #45 of 155
Big news!
Nobody was buying them anyway.
post #46 of 155
Ok so the only way for you to say you don't agree with the article, is to claim Samsung is as stupid as Apple, and that greedy pharmaceutical firms are right to patent HIV treatment for exemple ? Wow, just wow.
post #47 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

So, if I follow you, they should sue Motorola (Xoom), Acer (A500), Samsung (Galaxy Tab 10.1), Asus (Transformer), HP (TouchPad), etc, just because they are 10 inch tablets with a black bezel ?

No. You're not following very well. If you think a judge in Australia, and a judge in the U.S. made rulings against samsung for having a 10" tablet with a black bezel you're crazy.
post #48 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Oh great, you are one of those "all patents are evil and companies should copy to their hearts' content and let the market decide" zealots. That crap doesn't fly with me. No company should get a huge discount in R&D at another company's expense which I think is the case with Samsung.

Ok, by your statement, you just confirm you didn't read the article. So pathetic.
post #49 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

No. You're not following very well. If you think a judge in Australia, and a judge in the U.S. made rulings against samsung for having a 10" tablet with a black bezel you're crazy.

But that's what the Galaxy Tab 10.1 is
There is no 500 ways of designing a 10 inch tablet.
And Honeycomb IS different from iOS.
post #50 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

Ok, by your statement, you just confirm you didn't read the article. So pathetic.

I did read it and stand by what I said (without resorting to a complete personal attack so go me!).
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post #51 of 155
"In practically all industries, this money is made from selling products and services relating to or incorporating the innovation. Patents do not sell products and are, for the most part, granted long after the related product is so old it is obsolete and no longer generating money.
If companies did not innovate, they would lose the ability to sell products, and therefore lose the ability to make money. This is much more relevant than the ability to patent something."
post #52 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

But that's what the Galaxy Tab 10.1 is
There is no 500 ways of designing a 10 inch tablet.
And Honeycomb IS different from iOS.

If that's the argument samsung lawyers used in those two courts it's no wonder they were ruled against.
post #53 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

guys - why do you think this is funny? This is scary monopolistic behaviour.

Is everyone on this board seriously that stupid that they don't want any choice in electronics apart from apple?

How is it monopolistic behavior? The Australian courts made a judgment in a patent dispute case. Companies ask courts for injunctions against other companies' products all of the time in trade disputes. What justifies labeling the practice "monopolistic" in Apple's case? Stopping the sale of Samsung's Tab does not restrict the sale of any other Apple tablet competitor in Australia, so buyers in that country still have choices. Try not to go off the deep end when panicking about the sky falling

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #54 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

So, if I follow you, they should sue Motorola (Xoom), Acer (A500), Samsung (Galaxy Tab 10.1), Asus (Transformer), HP (TouchPad), etc, just because they are 10 inch tablets with a black bezel ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

But that's what the Galaxy Tab 10.1 is
There is no 500 ways of designing a 10 inch tablet.
And Honeycomb IS different from iOS.

You're displaying tremendous ignorance here. First off the issue isn't 'a 10inch tablet with a black bezel', because neither the iPad nor the 10.1 tablet have a bezel of any kind. They have black margins.

If you want to see what a bezel looks like, take a gander at the MacBook Air.

Anyway given your complete cluelessness about design it's not surprising that you don't realize that there are indeed hundreds of ways that Samsung could have designed the 10.1 so that the hardware patents, design patents and trade dress complaints that Apple is asserting wouldn't apply.

They chose not to.
post #55 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

"In practically all industries, this money is made from selling products and services relating to or incorporating the innovation. Patents do not sell products and are, for the most part, granted long after the related product is so old it is obsolete and no longer generating money.
If companies did not innovate, they would lose the ability to sell products, and therefore lose the ability to make money. This is much more relevant than the ability to patent something."

Yeah and? Did it ever occur to you that some (many) companies innovate AND protect their IP? Also, the part about a related product being so old it is obsolete doesn't apply in this case at all anyway since the iPad is not even two years old with sales growing exponentially.
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post #56 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 513 View Post

"In practically all industries, this money is made from selling products and services relating to or incorporating the innovation. Patents do not sell products and are, for the most part, granted long after the related product is so old it is obsolete and no longer generating money.
If companies did not innovate, they would lose the ability to sell products, and therefore lose the ability to make money. This is much more relevant than the ability to patent something."

And the author goes on to include pharma patents in his tirade, when nobody can possibly imagine that a firm will spends hundreds of millions of dollars pushing a drug through clinical trials only for it to become immediately generic.

There are good cases to be made against certain classes of patent, but the author of that article overreaches so far that it's not even funny.
post #57 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashaww View Post

This is nothing more than a company defending it's patents, as it should do. How is this monopolistic?

I think people who call it "monopolistic" are using that label on Apple, not the Australian courts. Therefore, the practice they consider monopolistic is not the judgment rendered by the court, but the practice of asking for an injunction against the sale of a competitors product. The thing is, companies do this all the time. Sometimes the court grants them the request, and sometimes not, presumably on the merits of the arguments filed with the court.

However, calling it monopolistic is prejudicial, because it assumes the intention is anticompetitive, when there may be merit to the case presented to the courts. It is, in effect, dismissing Apple's claim to infringement without due process. Ergo, I conclude that anyone who calls it "monopolistic behavior" is likely prejudiced against Apple.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #58 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Wow.

The most interesting part.

"Should Apple lose its patent infringement lawsuit, it agreed to pay Samsung damages, which werent specified."

How do you put a dollar amount on missing out on the critical launch of a brand new market?

Lawyers from both sides could be arguing this bloody case for a decade.

it could not be much, they are not selling many anyway....
post #59 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

it could not be much, they are not selling many anyway....

Now now, I heard from a relaible source that sales were quite smooooth.
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post #60 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Wow.
How do you put a dollar amount on missing out on the critical launch of a brand new market?


How do you put a dollar amount on missing out on the critical a launch of a brand new product that nobody's going to buy?

ZERO

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post #61 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

guys - why do you think this is funny? This is scary monopolistic behaviour.

Pity the term doesn't mean what you think it does. Being a monopoly is not in and of itself a crime, nor does it negate ones IP rights. It is only in how a company gets there and what they do with that power that can be 'evil'. Things like making it so that you must sync to a computer and it must be a Mac if you want to use an iPhone etc. Or making a rule that iOS developers can't port their apps to other mobile OSes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Not on this scale they do not.

What would you call all the patent suits against Apple, including the one by Samsung. They claim Apple is using patented tech without proper licenses, which in effect is stealing same as this look and feel copying
post #62 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

guys - why do you think this is funny? This is scary monopolistic behaviour.

Is everyone on this board seriously that stupid that they don't want any choice in electronics apart from apple?

I think a good number of them are that stupid.

To claim infringement on the "look and feel" of the iPhone and iPad seems rather questionable. Why?

The "Look": a tablet is a flat slate-like device with a touchable screen. How else is it really going to look?

The "Feel": this is SO subjective it isn't even funny. What part of the feel is being copied? The icons? The app layout? What?

If this idea of copying the "look and feel" of a product were to have merit isn't Apple just a guilty? Their laptops look like all the other laptops out there; screen, keyboard, trackball, folds up. And remember the Apple laptops came after the PC laptops. I remember looking over the first Apple laptop (not the suitcase monstrosity, the little Powerbook 100 built by Sony) and thinking "nice laptop". But I sure as hell didn't think that the other laptop manufacturers should sue Apple because they designed a laptop.

If you people want to beat the war drums and dance yourselves into further stupidity, go for it. But at least try an explain what it is that Samsung has copied.
post #63 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Nah, it's an indicator of how sure the court is that Apple will win the suit. That's how injunctions are granted.

It's standard practice in Australia that loser pays costs and agrees to do so as a condition of having their case heard.
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post #64 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

Yes, they have that choice. But they can't buy the product which is arguably the next best after the iPad 2.

yeah, maybe it's the next best because they copied the look and feel like apple claims.

(i wouldn't know because i have never used either tablet)
post #65 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I think a good number of them are that stupid.

To claim infringement on the "look and feel" of the iPhone and iPad seems rather questionable. Why?

The "Look": a tablet is a flat slate-like device with a touchable screen. How else is it really going to look?

The "Feel": this is SO subjective it isn't even funny. What part of the feel is being copied? The icons? The app layout? What?

If this idea of copying the "look and feel" of a product were to have merit isn't Apple just a guilty? Their laptops look like all the other laptops out there; screen, keyboard, trackball, folds up. And remember the Apple laptops came after the PC laptops. I remember looking over the first Apple laptop (not the suitcase monstrosity, the little Powerbook 100 built by Sony) and thinking "nice laptop". But I sure as hell didn't think that the other laptop manufacturers should sue Apple because they designed a laptop.

If you people want to beat the war drums and dance yourselves into further stupidity, go for it. But at least try an explain what it is that Samsung has copied.

Makes you wonder why Samsung didn't continue with the rollout of the Galaxy Tab 10.1v opting instead to launch the hurridely revised, thinner Galaxy Tab 10.1 IMMEDIATELY AFTER the launch of the iPad 2.

Incidentally , Australia became one of the dumping grounds of the original 10.1v's.
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post #66 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

What would you call all the patent suits against Apple, including the one by Samsung. They claim Apple is using patented tech without proper licenses, which in effect is stealing same as this look and feel copying

It's a little different as for most of those patents Apple has said they stand ready to pay FRAND licensing fees - the patents being included in UMTS and the like.
post #67 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I think a good number of them are that stupid.

To claim infringement on the "look and feel" of the iPhone and iPad seems rather questionable. Why?

The "Look": a tablet is a flat slate-like device with a touchable screen. How else is it really going to look?

The "Feel": this is SO subjective it isn't even funny. What part of the feel is being copied? The icons? The app layout? What?

If this idea of copying the "look and feel" of a product were to have merit isn't Apple just a guilty? Their laptops look like all the other laptops out there; screen, keyboard, trackball, folds up. And remember the Apple laptops came after the PC laptops. I remember looking over the first Apple laptop (not the suitcase monstrosity, the little Powerbook 100 built by Sony) and thinking "nice laptop". But I sure as hell didn't think that the other laptop manufacturers should sue Apple because they designed a laptop.

If you people want to beat the war drums and dance yourselves into further stupidity, go for it. But at least try an explain what it is that Samsung has copied.

I'm not sure why you would want to undermine your own argument by resulting to insults like "stupid" but "look and feel" isn't entirely subjective. "Look and feel" is a cumulative sum of parts. I won't list all of the alleged Samsung infringements but contrary to popular belief it isn't "a grid of icons." In the case, it is icon placement in the menu bar, graphic effects of icons in the "dock", iconography used for the icons among several other things. Here's a non-tech example. David LaChapelle (a photographer) published a coffee table book that included a certain photo. Pop singer, Rhianna, apparently liked the photo and decided to use it in her video without permission. Mr. La Chapelle saw said video and tried to negotiate payment from Rhianna. Her management refused so he took her to court. The court has just recently decided that there were enough elements in the music video that were the same as the photo to warrant a trial to proceed. That is what "look and feel" means legally.

As for the laptops, possibly there are/were apple laptops that infringed but I don't recal any apple laptops with similar cases. Having a keyboard, a screen and folding up is not enough.
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post #68 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

You're displaying tremendous ignorance here. First off the issue isn't 'a 10inch tablet with a black bezel', because neither the iPad nor the 10.1 tablet have a bezel of any kind. They have black margins.

If you want to see what a bezel looks like, take a gander at the MacBook Air.

Anyway given your complete cluelessness about design it's not surprising that you don't realize that there are indeed hundreds of ways that Samsung could have designed the 10.1 so that the hardware patents, design patents and trade dress complaints that Apple is asserting wouldn't apply.

They chose not to.

Oh come one, even Apple Insider is talking about bezel when they are meaning "margins". Are they ignorant too ?
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._to_bezel.html

Because you are such a smart guy, you should know that proportions of the Samsung Tab are different (16:10 vs 4:3), the back is completely different design, not to say the material used.
post #69 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

They're free to buy a Xoom, or a Toshiba Thrive, or the forthcoming Sony S1 or either of the lenovo 10.1inch androids. It's not like they don't have plenty of choices of 10inch tablet. Heck they could go wild and buy an HP touchpad.

This isn't scary monopolistic behaviour, this is standard enforcement of IP rights.

BS. Some of the claimed infringements are inherent in Android itself.

Apple is trying to set a precedent with Samsung before going after the other companies.

THAT, my friend, is monopolistic tactic and hampering competition.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #70 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

The "Look": a tablet is a flat slate-like device with a touchable screen. How else is it really going to look?

It could look like

or any of the Lenovo offerings



There's a lot of detailed design in how the enclosure looks. The shape of the edges, corners, back etc. How wide are the margins, are they symmetric or asymmetric? What do the connectors look like even. Samsung did their utmost with all of those design decisions to make a device that resembled the iPad-2 as closely as they could - they even went from using a micro USB connector to an iPod-style proprietary connector.

Apple is even accusing them of copying the multi-fulcrum volume rocker which seems completely unnecessary - why couldn't they just have used two buttons or an old style rocker? Obviously because that wouldn't be sufficiently similar to an iPad.



post #71 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

They can't buy the product which is the most flagrant copy of the iPad-2. Actually I would say that slight build quality issues aside the Sony-S1 looks the most interesting of the android tablets.

It looks like the most useless.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #72 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

They can't buy the product which is the most flagrant copy of the iPad-2. Actually I would say that slight build quality issues aside the Sony-S1 looks the most interesting of the android tablets
Apple is even accusing them of copying the multi-fulcrum volume rocker which seems completely unnecessary - why couldn't they just have used two buttons or an old style rocker? Obviously because that wouldn't be sufficiently similar to an iPad.

Samsung has been using the "volume rocker" button FOR YEARS ON THEIR MOBILE DEVICES.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #73 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

BS. Some of the claimed infringements are inherent in Android itself.

Apple is trying to set a precedent with Samsung before going after the other companies.

THAT, my friend, is monopolistic tactic and hampering competition.

So you'll be able to complain as and when they assert those patents against Lenovo. When you get into a patent fight with a firm you assert all your strongest patents - Samsung certainly is doing so against Apple.

Except you won't complain then, because you only get paid to cheer for Samsung.
post #74 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Samsung has been using the "volume rocker" button FOR YEARS ON THEIR MOBILE DEVICES.

A multi-fulcrum one? Really? Predating Apple's patent? Then they'll have plenty of prior art won't they? Should be an easy win for them.
post #75 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I think a good number of them are that stupid.

To claim infringement on the "look and feel" of the iPhone and iPad seems rather questionable.

It's about more than the physical appearance of the device. The UI is also part of it. And when the two are taken together the notion of copying becomes less stupid and more possible. Particularly when you look at the elements that aren't in the realm of totally obvious like putting a keyboard on a laptop would be



Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

How do you put a dollar amount on missing out on the critical a launch of a brand new product that nobody's going to buy?

ZERO

It's likely they already have settled on an amount that is left sealed until the judgement is made
post #76 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

It looks like the most useless.

Haha - yeh - of course as a samsung paid shill you hate any sony products. Can't bear that they still out design Samsung eh?
post #77 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

So you'll be able to complain as and when they assert those patents against Lenovo. When you get into a patent fight with a firm you assert all your strongest patents - Samsung certainly is doing so against Apple.

Except you won't complain then, because you only get paid to cheer for Samsung.

Look who is talking? You get paid to cheer for Apple yourself.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #78 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

A multi-fulcrum one? Really? Predating Apple's patent? Then they'll have plenty of prior art won't they? Should be an easy win for them.

Samsung isnt as self-conscious of their property as Apple.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #79 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Haha - yeh - of course as a samsung paid shill you hate any sony products. Can't bear that they still out design Samsung eh?

Sony is crap. Their golden design days are over. They lost their top designers to competing firms back in the beginning of the 21th century. I should know I have relatives who used to work there.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #80 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

It could look like

or any of the Lenovo offerings


Ha ha ha ha
But Lenovo tabs also look like the iPad (except the first one), and what about the HP TouchPad ? Put some glasses.
Quote:
Apple is even accusing them of copying the multi-fulcrum volume rocker which seems completely unnecessary - why couldn't they just have used two buttons or an old style rocker? Obviously because that wouldn't be sufficiently similar to an iPad.




Yeah, sure, they look EXACTLY the same
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