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Apple's fifth-gen iPhone could be 'bigger upgrade than expected'

post #1 of 107
Thread Starter 
Sources in Apple's overseas supply chain have reportedly indicated that the company's forthcoming fifth-generation iPhone could be a more significant upgrade than previous rumors have suggested, sporting a larger display and thinner design.

Analyst Shaw Wu with Sterne Agee said he has consistently received one question from investors regarding the upcoming iPhone: Why would a customer consider buying a so-called "iPhone 5" without 4G if Apple plans to release a 4G long-term evolution handset in the future?

"Well, it turns out that we are picking up that this interim iPhone refresh in the Fall timeframe could be a bigger upgrade than we expected," Wu wrote. "We believe this keeps the iPhone fresh and competitive and helps maintain its leadership position."

He said that supply chain sources have indicated that the new iPhone will feature a slightly larger display than the current 3.5-inch screen found on the iPhone 4. The fifth-generation iPhone is also expected to feature the same dual-core A5 processor already found in the iPad 2.

In addition, those same sources reportedly said that the new iPhone will feature a similar form factor and size to the iPhone 4, but will sport a thinner bezel.

"We believe this makes sense to improve the iPhone experience without making it too bulky as we have seen with models from competitors," he wrote.

While Wu expects the new iPhone to have a bigger screen and thinner profile, checks within the supply chain have said that the fifth-generation iPhone is not expected to have 4G-LTE high-speed wireless data connectivity. The new technology still has issues with battery life and network coverage, problems that Wu believes Apple will fix at some point in the future.



This week, one report claimed that Apple's next-generation iPhone will become available in October, a date even later than expected by some. Apple typically releases a new iPhone in the June-July timeframe, but this year is instead holding off until the fall.

In recent days, cases claiming to show the new design of Apple's fifth-generation iPhone have been appearing in large numbers in China. The cases show curved sides, suggesting the new iPhone will sport a different frame from the current iPhone 4.

Rumors of an iPhone with a larger screen are not new, with a number of reports over the last year claiming that Apple's next handset will feature an edge-to-edge display that would allow the iPhone to retain the same size. Such reports stand in contrast to other claims that the next iPhone will have a design largely similar to the current iPhone 4.
post #2 of 107
I'd really like to see a slightly bigger screen (but with the same screen resolution).
post #3 of 107
I'll be very disappointed if the screen is only a tiny bit bigger. 4" should be the absolute minimum, but I'd sooner see 4.3 or even 4.5" on offer.
post #4 of 107
No way it'll be bigger than 4"... I'd be happy with 3.8 - 4 personally. I'll be disappointed if it's not bigger than the current screen.
post #5 of 107
The next iPhone will need to be good. I tried my nephew's new Samsung Galaxy S2 this past weekend and it is a very nice phone. While the Galaxy phone is quite good, Samsung continues to "borrow" an awful lot from iOS.

I'm still happy with my iPhone 4, but a slightly larger, thinner and lighter version with a faster processor would be nice.
post #6 of 107
It would be funny if Apple'll also release iPhone 5 Pro with LTE.
post #7 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I'll be very disappointed if the screen is only a tiny bit bigger. 4" should be the absolute minimum, but I'd sooner see 4.3 or even 4.5" on offer.

4" is enough for a phone. Bigger than that and it's just too big.
post #8 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While Wu expects the new iPhone to have a bigger screen and thinner profile, checks within the supply chain have said that the fifth-generation iPhone is not expected to have 4G-LTE high-speed wireless data connectivity. The new technology still has issues with battery life and network coverage, problems that Wu believes Apple will fix at some point in the future.

Is there anything Apple can't fix? Glad to see LTE is also on their list.
post #9 of 107
I'm pretty happy with my iPhone 4, but plan on jumping from AT&T to Verizon with the iPhone 5.

It wouldn't be surprising for Apple to host its annual September event to announce the iPhone 5 and presumably new iPods with a street date in late September or early October.

Although a bigger screen and faster processor are certainly welcome in the new iPhone, I would really like to see a bump in capacity to 64GB. The iPhone 4 also sports an excellent camera and I hope that Apple makes it even better.
post #10 of 107
until someone explains to me how Apple can enlarge the screen without reducing pixel density (ie, Retina Display) then I am eternally skeptical about a larger iPhone. There is zero chance Apple will ask developers to go back and fix their apps to run on a resolution other than 960x640.
post #11 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxc273 View Post

I would really like to see a bump in capacity to 64GB. The iPhone 4 also sports an excellent camera and I hope that Apple makes it even better.

I'd be surprised to see that happen. With iCloud coming, there is increasingly less need for local storage. They'd rather use that internal space for a bigger battery. I see reducing flash memory as a key trade-off for Apple to enter lower price-point markets (ie, 8GB 3GS being sold off contract, etc). iCloud mitigates this tradeoff.
post #12 of 107
Sha Wu is an idiot. The answer to the question:

"Why woud a customer consider buying a so-called "iPhone 5" without 4G if Apple plans to release a 4G long-term evolution handset in the future?

... is so *not* ... "because it has a slightly bigger screen."
post #13 of 107
I'll be majorly disappointed if it doesn't have a 4" screen. I see my friends with their 4" Androids, and I'm jealous.

4G wireless would be nice to have, but I would probably leave it off most of the time to conserve battery life.

NFC ability would be nice to do credit card transactions with the iPhone.

I'm torn on whether to jump ship to Verizon on the iPhone 5. My office is a black hole as far as wireless, but they are setting up a Verizon repeater. But then I'd lose my unlimited data plan with AT&T. I don't think I've ever gone over 2 GB in a month, but you never know.

Quote:
With iCloud coming, there is increasingly less need for local storage.

Problem is, iCloud doesn't stream multimedia yet, the main reason why you need so much storage..
post #14 of 107
Tried to order a TomTom carkit for iPhone last week.
It was sold out and I was told by a TomTom employee no new stock would come 'because a new one is on the way'.
Of course, this could just mean a new and improved version of the carkit is coming...
With all the other speculations going around, somehow I don't think so.
post #15 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post

I'll be majorly disappointed if it doesn't have a 4" screen. I see my friends with their 4" Androids, and I'm jealous...

Given the fact that this sentiment seems to be basically the only reason for making the screen bigger, it's also the main reason why it probably won't happen. When was the last time Apple changed a product of theirs (a flagship product in fact), to match the competition or because "everyone is doing (X) now." Oh that's right ... never!

Unless there is a valid, *design-based* reason for changing the screen size, I don't see Apple doing it, (and I've yet to hear anyone elucidate that reason).
post #16 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

There is zero chance Apple will ask developers to go back and fix their apps to run on a resolution other than 960x640.

No doubt. I don't agree that pixel density is the same roadblock that resolution is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

until someone explains to me how Apple can enlarge the screen without reducing pixel density (ie, Retina Display) then I am eternally skeptical about a larger iPhone.

Hopefully in choosing between (1) a concrete improvement in a product and (2) a catchy marketing term, they choose (1). The desire to hold on to a catchy phrase should never trump the product itself. But we'll see. I think people are correct that 4.5" starts getting bulky. I might like 4" though.
post #17 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Given the fact that this sentiment seems to be basically the only reason for making the screen bigger, it's also the main reason why it probably won't happen. When was the last time Apple changed a product of theirs (a flagship product in fact), to match the competition or because "everyone is doing (X) now." Oh that's right ... never!

Unless there is a valid, *design-based* reason for changing the screen size, I don't see Apple doing it, (and I've yet to hear anyone elucidate that reason).

To give someone a reason to upgrade.

Otherwise, what's the point? My iPhone 4 is plenty fast enough for my tastes, so if all they do is slap a better CPU in it then I'll just skip this generation and wait for the 6.
post #18 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Sources in Apple's overseas supply chain have reportedly indicated that the company's forthcoming fifth-generation iPhone could be a more significant upgrade than previous rumors have suggested, sporting a larger display and thinner design.

Analyst Shaw Wu with Sterne Agee said he has consistently received one question from investors regarding the upcoming iPhone: Why would a customer consider buying a so-called "iPhone 5" without 4G if Apple plans to release a 4G long-term evolution handset in the future?

"Well, it turns out that we are picking up that this interim iPhone refresh in the Fall timeframe could be a bigger upgrade than we expected," Wu wrote. "We believe this keeps the iPhone fresh and competitive and helps maintain its leadership position."

He said that supply chain sources have indicated that the new iPhone will feature a slightly larger display than the current 3.5-inch screen found on the iPhone 4. The fifth-generation iPhone is also expected to feature the same dual-core A5 processor already found in the iPad 2.

In addition, those same sources reportedly said that the new iPhone will feature a similar form factor and size to the iPhone 4, but will sport a thinner bezel.

"We believe this makes sense to improve the iPhone experience without making it too bulky as we have seen with models from competitors," he wrote.

While Wu expects the new iPhone to have a bigger screen and thinner profile, checks within the supply chain have said that the fifth-generation iPhone is not expected to have 4G-LTE high-speed wireless data connectivity. The new technology still has issues with battery life and network coverage, problems that Wu believes Apple will fix at some point in the future.



This week, one report claimed that Apple's next-generation iPhone will become available in October, a date even later than expected by some. Apple typically releases a new iPhone in the June-July timeframe, but this year is instead holding off until the fall.

In recent days, cases claiming to show the new design of Apple's fifth-generation iPhone have been appearing in large numbers in China. The cases show curved sides, suggesting the new iPhone will sport a different frame from the current iPhone 4.

Rumors of an iPhone with a larger screen are not new, with a number of reports over the last year claiming that Apple's next handset will feature an edge-to-edge display that would allow the iPhone to retain the same size. Such reports stand in contrast to other claims that the next iPhone will have a design largely similar to the current iPhone 4.

Woo - hoo, a bigger screen. I got to trash my yr old and go with this! When they come up with a world phone that I can get at Sprint, give me a call.
post #19 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post

I'll be majorly disappointed if it doesn't have a 4" screen. I see my friends with their 4" Androids, and I'm jealous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Given the fact that this sentiment seems to be basically the only reason for making the screen bigger, it's also the main reason why it probably won't happen. When was the last time Apple changed a product of theirs (a flagship product in fact), to match the competition or because "everyone is doing (X) now." Oh that's right ... never!

I think that's a flawed argument. cajun is saying he finds 4" screens appealing. And Apple actually does have a long and gloried history of changing products because users liked something a different way. There wasn't, after all, "a valid, *design-based* reason" to put video on a 2" iPod screen. Quite the opposite in fact. But Apple was pragmatic about it, saw that people wanted it, and reversed themselves.

Sometimes you do things because it's a good idea. 4" may end up being more the optimum size for the screen. When they designed the original iPhone, they were basically breaking an entirely new trail. Nobody had a design or a form factor like it. I wouldn't see anything wrong in Apple re-evaluating the situation and saying that they were going with a 4" screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Unless there is a valid, *design-based* reason for changing the screen size, I don't see Apple doing it, (and I've yet to hear anyone elucidate that reason).

Seems to me you heard one. Sometimes the whole design-based reason for something like 4" screen is "Wow, I saw one and it sure looked nice." And to be honest, I think that's a better reason than "If we take it to this size, people will quibble about our marketing terms."
post #20 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

It would be funny if Apple'll also release iPhone 5 Pro with LTE.

That would be hilarious. But it won't happen.
post #21 of 107
They say that to be a retina display it has to be over 300 ppi, so that would mean a maximum of 3.8" screen, no?

(considering the same resolution as iPhone 4)
post #22 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

I think that's a flawed argument. cajun is saying he finds 4" screens appealing. And Apple actually does have a long and gloried history of changing products because users liked something a different way. There wasn't, after all, "a valid, *design-based* reason" to put video on a 2" iPod screen. Quite the opposite in fact. But Apple was pragmatic about it, saw that people wanted it, and reversed themselves.

Sometimes you do things because it's a good idea. 4" may end up being more the optimum size for the screen. When they designed the original iPhone, they were basically breaking an entirely new trail. Nobody had a design or a form factor like it. I wouldn't see anything wrong in Apple re-evaluating the situation and saying that they were going with a 4" screen.

Seems to me you heard one. Sometimes the whole design-based reason for something like 4" screen is "Wow, I saw one and it sure looked nice." And to be honest, I think that's a better reason than "If we take it to this size, people will quibble about our marketing terms."

Here's how the "design-based" process works at Apple.

Apple engineers build dozens of prototypes using a variety of components from various suppliers. It is likely that within Apple's labs, there are samples of every single commercially viable handset display.

Steve Jobs visits that top-secret lab. He walks around and looks at the various prototypes, picks up some of them. Finally, he'll stop at one and say, "I like this one."

The "design-based" process is what Steve likes. It's not design-by-committee at Apple. They don't do market research, they don't do stuff because everyone else is doing it. It is likely that Steve has personally viewed every single display suitable for a smartphone.

Speculation on what the next iPhone will look like is not about guessing "what makes the most sense." The correct answer will always be "Steve likes this."

Steve has had multiple opportunities to pick a larger display for the iPhone (and iPod touch) yet each time, he has stuck with the same size. It's likely that Steve simply doesn't like the larger screen. That makes sense if you look at Steve's overall aesthetic (heavily Japanese influenced). He likes slender, small, and simple.

Steve is not going to supersize the iPhone. Remember, the overall push is to get these devices smaller not bigger.

On the computing side, the 11" MacBook Air is the epitome of Steve's design sensibilities, not the Mac Pro nor even the iMac.
post #23 of 107
I doubt there is going to be a change in screen size unless they have a specific reason for the change (like the multitasking bar is permanent).if there is a change in size then developers will have to rewrite apps, even if you don't change the density. Making pixels bigger just throws off the entire ui of an app and defeats the purpose of a bigger screen. They should have given developers a heads up if that was the case.
post #24 of 107
Despite, the larger 4.3" screen that the Galaxy has, it is still very pocketable. Truthfully, I find the size/weight/thickness to be very nice.

I have no plans to abandon the iPhone, but I'd be pleased with a slightly larger size. That said, I doubt we'll ever see a 4.3" iPhone.
post #25 of 107
Both the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are about to be replaced.
The 3GS will be replaced by a cheaper version of the iPhone 4 and will cost around $99.
The iPhone 4 will be replaced by the iPhone 5 which will be a larger, faster iPhone 4 for $199-299.
The iPhone 5 will have a unibody design that looks like a cross between the original iPhone and a larger iPhone 4.
post #26 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

To give someone a reason to upgrade.

Otherwise, what's the point? My iPhone 4 is plenty fast enough for my tastes, so if all they do is slap a better CPU in it then I'll just skip this generation and wait for the 6.

If Apple does away with the external antenna (or improves it), and gets rid of the back glass panel (or makes it stronger), plus delivers this thinner more rounded design, then this is plenty of reason to upgrade.

A larger screen is not needed or wanted for most users. My pocket and I agree that if they can stuff a larger screen into the current size, then it's all good. Or if they only minimally increase the external size ( a couple of millimeters). But in no way do I want it to swell big enough for a 4 inch screen or bigger. I would be okay with 3.75 if it made others happy, but 3.5 works great.

I don't want an iPad Jr. in my pocket (not that it would fit).
post #27 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfury77 View Post

I'd really like to see a slightly bigger screen (but with the same screen resolution).

I KNEW IT.

The second I read the title, I knew that someone would ignore the word 'upgrade' COMPLETELY and just live in their little fantasy world where 4.5" screens somehow make sense.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #28 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Both the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are about to be replaced.
The 3GS will be replaced by a cheaper version of the iPhone 4 and will cost around $99.
The iPhone 4 will be replaced by the iPhone 5 which will be a larger, faster iPhone 4 for $199-299.
The iPhone 5 will have a unibody design that looks like a cross between the original iPhone and a larger iPhone 4.

INSIDE INFO, people! I hope your job was worth it!
post #29 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I KNEW IT.

The second I read the title, I knew that someone would ignore the word 'upgrade' COMPLETELY and just live in their little fantasy world where 4.5" screens somehow make sense.

To be fair, kfury didn't necessarily ignore the word "upgrade". The iPhone5 upgrade could be literally bigger and have a larger screen, or it might be "bigger" in the sense that it completely diverts from the iPhone 4 design. Only Apple knows for sure. But, either way, just because kfury wants a larger screen, doesn't mean he is interpreting this headline as "News Flash! The iPhone 5 will have a HUGE screen!"
post #30 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxc273 View Post

I'm pretty happy with my iPhone 4, but plan on jumping from AT&T to Verizon with the iPhone 5.

I would think hard about jumping to VZW - their data is much slower than ATT (I'm not deciding anything until LTE is out).
post #31 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by drrjv View Post

I would think hard about jumping to VZW - their data is much slower than ATT (I'm not deciding anything until LTE is out).

Except where it's faster.

You can't make blanket statements about telecom speeds.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #32 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post


Problem is, iCloud doesn't stream multimedia yet, the main reason why you need so much storage..

It's coming.
post #33 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I'll be very disappointed if the screen is only a tiny bit bigger. 4" should be the absolute minimum, but I'd sooner see 4.3 or even 4.5" on offer.

I think Apple would lose more customers than it gains if they went bigger than 4".

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

until someone explains to me how Apple can enlarge the screen without reducing pixel density (ie, Retina Display) then I am eternally skeptical about a larger iPhone. There is zero chance Apple will ask developers to go back and fix their apps to run on a resolution other than 960x640.

Since "Retina Display" is nothing more than an Apple marketing term, they can define it however they want. They can slightly lower the pixel density and still call it a Retina Display. How often has Apple reused marketing terms, sometimes for completely different things? SuperDrive started out being the name for the high-density floppy drives in Mac II computers. Then later they reused it for DVD writers, and the speed of those burners changed over time but they were always called SuperDrives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdh5019 View Post

I doubt there is going to be a change in screen size unless they have a specific reason for the change (like the multitasking bar is permanent).if there is a change in size then developers will have to rewrite apps, even if you don't change the density. Making pixels bigger just throws off the entire ui of an app and defeats the purpose of a bigger screen. They should have given developers a heads up if that was the case.

Since I doubt the iPhone screen will get bigger than 4", and I think it will be more in the range of 3.75-3.8", that's hardly a big enough change to require a UI re-write. Your point is valid if we were talking 4" or bigger, but I don't think we are. And your argument about the need for UI changes is one of the reason why I think that.

As for those calling for screens bigger than 4" because that's what their Android friends have, keep in mind that many of those phones have a wider aspect ratio screen than the iPhone. I really don't see Apple changing the aspect ratio as that would certainly cause UI issues. So maintaining the same aspect ratio, a 4" iPhone is going to have to be wider than a 4" Android phone, making the iPhone look more like a mini tablet than a phone. I just don't see that happening.
post #34 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

.. Sometimes the whole design-based reason for something like 4" screen is "Wow, I saw one and it sure looked nice." And to be honest, I think that's a better reason than "If we take it to this size, people will quibble about our marketing terms."

Well if you're going to just completely redefine what a "design-based" reason is then it's pretty easy to prove me wrong.

I like it, it sells, it looks cool, the other guys are doing it, etc. are all *not* design-based reasons.

I could easily be wrong, everyone (at least in the USA) seems to want these gigantic screens, and Apple may bow to public pressure in that regard. I still doubt it though, and even if they did, nothing about that changes the fact that there is no design-based reason to do it, and that Apple rarely changes a product for any reasons other than design-based ones.
post #35 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

I'd be surprised to see that happen. With iCloud coming, there is increasingly less need for local storage. They'd rather use that internal space for a bigger battery. I see reducing flash memory as a key trade-off for Apple to enter lower price-point markets (ie, 8GB 3GS being sold off contract, etc). iCloud mitigates this tradeoff.

64 GB can take the same space as 32 GB if money is no object.

I'm sure you're right, with iCloud there isn't much reason for more storage, except that you can't get an unlimited plan with an iPhone. That's a major downside, but I don't watch any streaming videos on my smartphone and I have an unlimited data plan. I don't think any phone is suitable for watching videos - if I am going to do so I would pull out an iPad or laptop (in the dream world where I can afford an iPad )

I'm not much of a portable music listener, but that and photos would be the only thing I would put on my smartphone, so I think 16-32GB is plenty.

Anyway, I am perfectly happy with my 2 GB microSD card and I'm happy to know that I can expand. I seriously don't see what Apple's problem about including a slot could possibly be. I'm sure they could fit one in without making the case larger. (Though I don't like how Android handles external storage)

The 64 GB iPhone will be an upgrade for a price, if it's even offered.
post #36 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I'll be very disappointed if the screen is only a tiny bit bigger. 4" should be the absolute minimum, but I'd sooner see 4.3 or even 4.5" on offer.

Not going to happen with the iPhone. It's already hit the sweet spot in size.
The screen will likely fit within the bounds of the standard iPhone size case but stretched a bit. That's as far as Apple needs to go without messing up all of the third-party accessories.
post #37 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

I'd be surprised to see that happen. With iCloud coming, there is increasingly less need for local storage.

iCloud is not meant to be a repository where you stream everything from. It's meant to be a sync technology so that you always have access to your stuff. i.e. your contacts, calendar, music, etc. is transferred to and from iCloud, but not in real time. Well, in its present form anyway. Remember, iCloud is also for devices that don't have 24/7 Internet connectivity as well.
post #38 of 107
The necessary LTE chipset for Apple (Qualcomm 9615) wont be in mass production until the end of the year. So the new phone wont be LTE.

What I worry about is Apple waiting until next Sept. (of 2012) to bring LTE to the iPhone, even though there will be a capable chip available much earlier (and there will be a ton of LTE devices on the market that have good battery life using this same chip). On the flip side, Apple could release the iPhone 6 as early as May or June of 2012, so whats the purpose of getting the iPhone 5 if the LTE phone is just 8 months away? Its a weird situation they're in with their product release cycles.
post #39 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Both the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are about to be replaced.
The 3GS will be replaced by a cheaper version of the iPhone 4 and will cost around $99.
The iPhone 4 will be replaced by the iPhone 5 which will be a larger, faster iPhone 4 for $199-299.
The iPhone 5 will have a unibody design that looks like a cross between the original iPhone and a larger iPhone 4.

Whoa... you're like, a total seer! Amazing! Where did you get those prices? That's so brilliant, the way you segmented the market. you should totally call Apple and suggest it!

And the style prediction of the 5! Amazing! It's like you know what all the rumors said, AFTER they said it! Wow!
post #40 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by siromega View Post

so whats the purpose of getting the iPhone 5 if the LTE phone is just 8 months away?

Plenty. Because that's NOT how it's going to be.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
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