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Apple's fifth-gen iPhone could be 'bigger upgrade than expected' - Page 3

post #81 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Analyst Shaw Wu

This guy has a track record in the negatives. He picks his fav rumors with no proof regarding them and tries to sound like he knows his stuff. But he doesn't.

If Wu says it, it ain't true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Sha Wu is an idiot. The answer to the question:

"Why woud a customer consider buying a so-called "iPhone 5" without 4G if Apple plans to release a 4G long-term evolution handset in the future?

... is so *not* ... "because it has a slightly bigger screen."

Yep. That's exactly my point. There's no logic to anything he says. Folks will listen to Jobs saying that they haven't included 4g/LTE because of the lack of carrier support and the potential battery issues. No one wants a phone that drops all the time cause there's not enough antenna or that runs down in a couple of hours. They will hail Jobs for this decision.

As for who would buy a slightly better iPhone 4s, how about all the folks that have the 3g and the 3gs that didn't want to pay the extra money because their ATT contract wasn't up. How about all the folks on Verizon that weren't at the end of their contracts when the iPhone 4 came out or didn't want to buy a 6th month old iPhone. There's tons of buyers right there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobo007 View Post

They say that to be a retina display it has to be over 300 ppi, so that would mean a maximum of 3.8" screen, no?

(considering the same resolution as iPhone 4)

Or you are the victim of a bad assumption. Perhaps Apple won't do the same resolution as the iPhone 4.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #82 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

until someone explains to me how Apple can enlarge the screen without reducing pixel density (ie, Retina Display) then I am eternally skeptical about a larger iPhone. There is zero chance Apple will ask developers to go back and fix their apps to run on a resolution other than 960x640.

Actually, the answer is simple; many existing apps will have a small black border around them, or they can be expanded with a little interpolation on the graphics. Developers can go back and upgrade the visible area of their app, but it's not as big of a limitation as you might think.

Many apps are probably ready to go with a larger screen, or need minor fixes. My news aggregation apps, there's no reason why they can't simply expand to accommodate a little extra space horizontally or vertically.

I use my iPhone daily for surfing the web when I'm out and about. A 4" screen would be GREATLY appreciated.
post #83 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

I think this "design based" term is silly. Companies manufacture things they believe people want because they will sell more of them. If having a bigger screen is desirable for the majority of the public then that is what a company will manufacture.

THat's true for most companies but not Apple. Apple produces what they feel the public should have rather than what the hue and cry demands. Which is why despite all the fuss there is still not Blu-ray in the Macs. Which is why, despite the yells, there's not an open ecosystem for the app store. And so on

Apple is the biggest player in focusing folks to embrace the future now. By giving and taking as they see fit.

Quote:

People don't line up around the block to buy something that they don't want.

They do when it is Apple. Because Apple makes what they want to make and then convinces the people that it is what they must buy. And it works

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post #84 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post

Actually, the answer is simple; many existing apps will have a small black border around them, or they can be expanded with a little interpolation on the graphics. Developers can go back and upgrade the visible area of their app, but it's not as big of a limitation as you might think.

Many apps are probably ready to go with a larger screen, or need minor fixes. My news aggregation apps, there's no reason why they can't simply expand to accommodate a little extra space horizontally or vertically.

I use my iPhone daily for surfing the web when I'm out and about. A 4" screen would be GREATLY appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Sorry, can't believe that. SJ told that he doesn't want fragmentation

Funny thing is that's exactly what they do with the iPad and you say you "can't believe that."

It's my belief if they increase the screen size substantially they'll up the resolution as well. The OS can take care of the scaling if people want the app to run full screen but a "native resolution" option could be given where the app has a black border around it much like the iPad for apps that people don't need or want to be scaled upward.
post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

... Speculation on what the next iPhone will look like is not about guessing "what makes the most sense."

The correct answer will always be "Steve likes this."

...(t)hat makes sense if you look at Steve's overall aesthetic (heavily Japanese influenced). He likes slender, small, and simple.

I agree with your reasoning. And, I trust that SJ is training the next management team and/or CEO to be sensitive to his aesthetic. He could do this on his tours of the "super secret labs" with the chosen candidates and think out loud. To some degree, he can teach, casually, his process... because as you mentioned, they don't do market research... so it's the Art, Feel and Touch of Steve (taught by doing ala the European Ateliers of the Renaissance).

Now what really worries me is that Jonathan Ives has been talking of leaving. I certainly hope that he makes a similar effort. Industrial Design Theory and Philosophy is, I believe, easier to teach (ok, ok don't jump down my throat on that one).
post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Looking at last quarter's numbers and Apple's statement that about half of iPod sales are Touches the numbers are about 20M to 4M or 5 to 1.

Nah, you have to look at estimated iPod touch sales over the entire year; last quarter (June) is actually the worst to judge by.

Why? The iPods' main sales season is the holiday quarter, Apple fiscal Q1.
post #87 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Analyst Shaw Wu with Sterne Agee said he has consistently received one question from investors regarding the upcoming iPhone: Why would a customer consider buying a so-called "iPhone 5" without 4G if Apple plans to release a 4G long-term evolution handset in the future?

It seems hard to believe that Apple will relegate its users to slow data speeds until October 2012. OTOH, they often leave out one or more "must have" things on products, and nevertheless sell many of them.
post #88 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Nah, you have to look at estimated iPod touch sales over the entire year; last quarter (June) is actually the worst to judge by.

Why? The iPods' main sales season is the holiday quarter, Apple fiscal Q1.

Good point. I'm sure they were selling like hot cake last Autumn and are much more likely to be a stocking stuffer over the iPhone due to its additional requirements for purchase.
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post #89 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

It seems hard to believe that Apple will relegate its users to slow data speeds until October 2012. OTOH, they often leave out one or more "must have" things on products, and nevertheless sell many of them.

They wouldn't.

The next logical improvement to cellular network speeds would be HSPA+ support, since almost all international GSM/UTMS markets have upgraded to this technology (USA is basically the last market to upgrade). Those same markets are committed to LTE, however most will be deploying for the next 12-18 months and widely available commercial networks won't really be available for another year.
post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Good point. I'm sure they were selling like hot cake last Autumn and are much more likely to be a stocking stuffer over the iPhone due to its additional requirements for purchase.

Basically, Apple sells twice as many iPods in Q1 then in the other quarters. The "three iPhones for two iPod touches" thing has been extrapolated from various surveys (app downloads, Internet usage, etc.).

Source: Wikipedia iPod sales graph

We know that the user demographic for the iPod touch is much younger, the 13-24 age group, whereas the iPhone is the highly desirable 25-49 age group. There may be an explosion in iPhone sales once the first generation of iPod touch users finish school, get jobs, and can afford smartphone cellular service charges.
post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I want my phone to be a quick, convenient, and portable access point to my information while I am not home,


You sound like the kind of user that Microsoft was trying to lure with its WinPhone7 ad campaign. I'm not sure that is a compelling reason for most people to choose one platform over another.
post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

THat's true for most companies but not Apple. Apple produces what they feel the public should have rather than what the hue and cry demands.


To be realistic, Apple produces what they feel will give them the best ROI. Period.
post #93 of 107
I had an old friend phone me the other day, who sadly lost his way, and got addicted to drugs. He told me how he had just bought an Android phone...

So congratulations to Google!!! Even the crack heads are buying your phones! But don't expect them to buy many app's or large data plans...
The bottom of the barrel are buying smart phones.. but Apple doesn't care for bottom of the barrel and nor do I as a shareholder.
post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


They do when it is Apple. Because Apple makes what they want to make and then convinces the people that it is what they must buy. And it works



C'mon. Apple makes excellent products, and additionally, has ardent fans. The first is true regardless of their message, and the second is partly the result of brilliant marketing.

Until Apple started to gain marketshare, they portrayed their customers as somehow different and better than customers of other companies. "Think Different" no longer works, because the default choice of the uneducated masses is now the iPhone and the iPad. "I'm a Mac" (and therefefore I am a cool guy) was discontinued long ago.

I'm no marketing guy, but likely their next campaign will be something about their customers being better than other people because of the popularity of Apple products. We see it here in AI already: Android is put down. Often, this is not because of any intrinsic capabilities being lacking, but instead, because Android customers are said to be cheapskates and thieves and copycats and lowlife hackers.

So there is a two-fold strategy: Great products and even better marketing. Sounds like a recipe for success to me.
post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


So congratulations to Google!!! Even the crack heads are buying your phones!



Ha! That's exactly what I just said above!

Thanks for giving such an extreme example to bolster my point. I couldn't have imagined such an extreme viewpoint, but there it is.

"Android is the brand for crackheads. That is why I buy Apple."
post #96 of 107
4.5 inch screens do make sense.

Know why?

Because I want one.

And my wants outweigh Steve's. If he doesn't deliver, I'll get an Android phone that does.

It's that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I KNEW IT.

The second I read the title, I knew that someone would ignore the word 'upgrade' COMPLETELY and just live in their little fantasy world where 4.5" screens somehow make sense.
post #97 of 107
Sorry unless it has an app that will do transportation then I am not going to buy one. Guess I will have to wait for iPhone 10. Doh ;-)
post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Because I want one.

And my wants outweigh Steve's.

No, your wants don't matter at all.

"People don't know what they want until you show it to them."

Quote:
If he doesn't deliver, I'll get an Android phone that does.

It's that simple.

No one wants a 4.5" screen on their PHONE. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

I'd be surprised to see that happen. With iCloud coming, there is increasingly less need for local storage. They'd rather use that internal space for a bigger battery. I see reducing flash memory as a key trade-off for Apple to enter lower price-point markets (ie, 8GB 3GS being sold off contract, etc). iCloud mitigates this tradeoff.


some people like to being able to listen to music etc, etc, etc. without needingto have wifi/3G.

though i do think 64 is a bit much for many peoples music, i would certainly like it.

put as a note, i believe that Apple has made it fairly clear that they are not interested in making "bad" products-- after using an IPhone 4 with iOS4, i have than tried to go use a 3GS, and it is so slow/unresponsive.

Of course, what i feel is good vs. what other people/Apple think is good is different (surprise?) but i think that the 3GS would need a CPU speed bump and EITHER a version of iOS that uses 50 mb less default ram (leaving 150ish or so open for diffrent apps, more like 100-70 with the Apps that Apple always keeps open (safari, mail, ipod, etc)) or a bump in RAM.

With the lower cost of SSD, i *Would think* that these upgrades wouldn't cause a large change is price.

But, i would enjoy someone else's view on this situation.

Eh, i got way to off topic here.....

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, your wants don't matter at all.
No one wants a 4.5" screen on their PHONE. It's that simple.

Not that simple. All these people who bought ATT 4.5" Samsung Infuse phone instead of iPhone WANT a 4.5" screen:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Infuse...pr_product_top
And as you can see number of consumer star rating is proportional to the screen inch size on both phones 4.5 stars vs. iPhone 3.5 stars:
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-16GB-Qua...380740&sr=1-37

Samsung reviewer says
"The screen is absolutely beautiful. Bight, big and sharp. The screen size was the selling point for me and it feels good in your hand. "
Another one says "I mainly have just wanted a bigger screen".
One more "Screen: its very big and beautiful, which I like very very much. If you are into watching videos etc with your phone you will enjoy it."
One more "The big sell for me was the large display, I have no vision problems, but I always felt that my Captivate's 4" screen was too small."

Only 3.5 star iPhone consumer rating? Not great. People praise looks but mention limited functionality, usability issues and reliability problems

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post #101 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

Not that simple. All these people who bought ATT 4.5" Samsung Infuse phone instead of iPhone WANT a 4.5" screen:

Uh... huh.

Quote:
And as you can see number of consumer star rating is proportional to the screen inch size on both phones 4.5 stars vs. iPhone 3.5 stars:

NO, I'm sorry, did you REALLY just try to claim that people like the iPhone less than some piece of trash Android device based on "stars" on Amazon.com?

We're not allowed to post enough emoticons to express just how WRONG that is.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #102 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Uh... huh.
NO, I'm sorry, did you REALLY just try to claim that people like the iPhone less than some piece of trash Android device based on "stars" on Amazon.com?
We're not allowed to post enough emoticons to express just how WRONG that is.

No, your emotions "don't matter at all" (your quote).

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post #103 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

No, your emotions "don't matter at all" (your quote).

Can you read? A better question would be, "DID you read?" That's not at all what I said. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #104 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can you read? A better question would be, "DID you read?" That's not at all what I said. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

"We're not allowed to post enough emoticons to express just how WRONG that is."

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post #105 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

I think that's a flawed argument. cajun is saying he finds 4" screens appealing. And Apple actually does have a long and gloried history of changing products because users liked something a different way. There wasn't, after all, "a valid, *design-based* reason" to put video on a 2" iPod screen. Quite the opposite in fact. But Apple was pragmatic about it, saw that people wanted it, and reversed themselves.

Sometimes you do things because it's a good idea. 4" may end up being more the optimum size for the screen. When they designed the original iPhone, they were basically breaking an entirely new trail. Nobody had a design or a form factor like it. I wouldn't see anything wrong in Apple re-evaluating the situation and saying that they were going with a 4" screen.



Seems to me you heard one. Sometimes the whole design-based reason for something like 4" screen is "Wow, I saw one and it sure looked nice." And to be honest, I think that's a better reason than "If we take it to this size, people will quibble about our marketing terms."

Your polite, well-argued posts will no doubt land you in trouble around here...
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post #106 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

"We're not allowed to post enough emoticons to express just how WRONG that is."

You may be my new favorite poster on this forum.
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post #107 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

"We're not allowed to post enough emoticons to express just how WRONG that is."

Are you just playing dumb? I figure you're pretty intelligent. Intelligent enough, at least, to know that's not the post I was referencing. You should obviously know that.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
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