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post #41 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

I'm sorry, did you actually mean anything or is it just you saying black when I'm saying white and vica-versa?

That's your in-depth defense of your position? And here I thought you may actually try to concoct a decent argument for once.
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post #42 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Hey they are all piled up in the racks.
No-one buys them! Who'd buy crap anyway?

Perhaps they are but I don't think so. All I know is FB is one of the few sites that shows parity on access between iOS and Android and even then, there are more iPhones accessing FB accounts than Android. iOS will rocket ahead once FB makes the iPad app public.

I would expect much higher Android web usage statistics than what is out there (Android accounts for about 65%-75% less traffic compared to iOS on most major analytic sites) than what is being reported. Is it a result of use patterns? Demographics? Poor analysts figures? User Agent spoofing?
post #43 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That's your in-depth defense of your position? And here I thought you may actually try to concoct a decent argument for once.

He doesn't have any position
post #44 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Was Android ever meant to be profitable?
Were iTunes Store and the App Store (TM) ever meant to be profitable?

If android was never intended to be profitable the handset makers that use it sure got screwed.
post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Perhaps they are but I don't think so. All I know is FB is one of the few sites that shows parity on access between iOS and Android and even then, there are more iPhones accessing FB accounts than Android. iOS will rocket ahead once FB makes the iPad app public.

I would expect much higher Android web usage statistics than what is out there (Android accounts for about 65%-75% less traffic compared to iOS on most major analytic sites) than what is being reported. Is it a result of use patterns? Demographics? Poor analysts figures? User Agent spoofing?

Here in Spain you will see more HTC (mostly Desire family) and Samsung Android smartphones than iPhones
post #46 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Was Android ever meant to be profitable?
Were iTunes Store and the App Store (TM) ever meant to be profitable?

Yes and Yes. Crazy question of the day.

If Samsung, HTC, ZTE, Moto, Sony, LG... cannot make a sustained profit with a platform, they will drop the platform like a ton of bricks or the manufacture will drop like a ton of bricks.

Watch the original Google videos about Android providing a platform for carriers and handset makers to build value and profit on.
post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

Is there anyone here who thinks cgrisar made a point? Maybe someone else can explain it to me. Go slow, I'm no rocket surgeon.

He made the point that he is a glutton for punishment.
post #48 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Perhaps they are but I don't think so. All I know is FB is one of the few sites that shows parity on access between iOS and Android and even then, there are more iPhones accessing FB accounts than Android. iOS will rocket ahead once FB makes the iPad app public.

I would expect much higher Android web usage statistics than what is out there (Android accounts for about 65%-75% less traffic compared to iOS on most major analytic sites) than what is being reported. Is it a result of use patterns? Demographics? Poor analysts figures? User Agent spoofing?

Have you seen the average Android user? People that think anyone others are stupid if they don't know how to root their phone and flash their baseband probably aren't the most social creatures and therefore don't have many friends on Facebook.
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post #49 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Have you seen the average Android user? People that think anyone others are stupid if they don't know how to root their phone and flash their baseband probably aren't the most social creatures and therefore don't have many friends on Facebook.

Is this the average iPhone user vision of average Android users?

Like the other part vision, totally wrong.
post #50 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

A full 30% behind? Ouch!

What "ouch" is that, troll? By what measure of business does Android's lead mean anything to Apple? Sales? Nope. Revenue? Nope. Profit? Nope. Better apps? Nope. Apps not available on iOS? Nope. Mindshare? Nope. Marketing advantage? Nope.

So I'll ask you again, troll, other than numbers of users, how this an "ouch" for Apple? You see, your fixation on numbers is the only thing you've got isn't it? That's all you can claim and it means virtually nothing. Same as saying Microsoft still has 80% of the desktop operating system market. Nobody cares anymore because Apple sells more than Microsoft, has more revenue than Microsoft, has more profits than Microsoft, and is worth more than Microsoft. Same goes for Google.

You trolls are a funny bunch of losers aren't you.
post #51 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Of course, but that doesn't mean that Android was meant to be profitable, which was the argument.
(Please wake up)

So which is it? Android is eating Apple's lunch or Android was never meant to be profitable? How do you explain that Motorola has lost money the last two quarters? Are you really going to argue that Moto made a conscience choice to loss money for the benefit of the consumer?

http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...esentation.pdf (802 KB)
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post #52 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar

A full 30% behind? Ouch!

What "ouch" is that, troll?

Apple is only 33% behind from monopolizing all the profits in the world's handset industry. Now that's a ouch! You'd think if Android-based vendors on the whole were able to uncut Apple and still turn a good profit they would done that by now. I guess there is something to be said about planning well.
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post #53 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

He made the point that he is a glutton for punishment.

I stand corrected. Not sure how I missed that.
post #54 of 93
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Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So how did instantly selling all your Apple stock as soon as the "Antenna-gate" story broke work out for you, again?

Haha exactly. I love these suckers. They make me rich.
post #55 of 93
it can't be compared, apple is an independent (single manufacturer company) while android is just like windows, google makes the software, hardware is made by other companies. so the amount can't be compared.
post #56 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

BTW: Android is not free. I know that for a fact and maybe, even you know that.

No, Android isn't free, but it is less expensive than the previous alternatives-- developing Symbian or another OS in-house, or buying WinMo. It effectively was a zero-sum game in terms of market share of the alternatives until RIM started destroying themselves.

Android has done very well for themselves, although the competing studies suggest that it isn't quite as much of a margin as would be expected.
post #57 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They were so broke the couldn't buy NeXT. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Being near bankruptcy and being broke are not the same thing. You think they are the she thing but you also think that all flavors of Android are the same thing so it's not like you are good at sweating the details.

Please, put that jerk on ignore. His ignorance is astounding which makes me believe he's just trying his best to goad people into a circular argument.

He also forgot about the billion Apple had in the bank in 1996.
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post #58 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

One might say that Android's story, a full year behind Apple, is even more impressive.)

Considering Android was the ONLY OS available that could compete with IOS, hardware makers had no choice but to use Android. And there are a lot of hardware makers trying to keep up with the iPhone. I bet if Apple licensed their IOS to other devices, Android would not exist at all.
post #59 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Of course, but that doesn't mean that Android was meant to be profitable, which was the argument.
(Please wake up)

I am fully awake and think you are asleep in a fantasy land. Do you think that ZTE wants to make no profit? Do you think Sammy wants to make no profit? Do you think HTC wants not to make a profit? Do you think MMI, LG and SE are happy with their associated handset devisions in the red?

Even Google has claimed they see an upside of $10/handset/year profit from Android. Get to a billion users and that is some real money at 10,000,000,000/year. Google sold the Android OHA on a value added potential for carriers and handset makers to open additional revenue streams.

Only someone dreaming in fantasy land would even begin to make the statement "that doesn't mean that Android was meant to be profitable". My response was fully, the argument is simply crazy and YES Android is meant to make a profit.
post #60 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Well, you don't really know how much I did in that time frame, do you?
But let me help you, just considering the EUR/USD trade I make 20% more than you do since Antenna-gate. That's not only for my trades. And for the better part, it also includes the cost of living, day in, day out. Now, who's the sucker? Who's the richer?

Not you.
post #61 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Well, little guys. That's it for me today.
I've tried to, but I can't bear to talk to idiots any more.

Sleep tight with the idea that, in fact, loosing market share to Android is actually a good thing.


After being disproven in post after post.
post #62 of 93
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Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

After being disproven in post after post.

... and not knowing how to spell "losing".
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post #63 of 93
Cgrisar,
You lost any chance of having an intelligent exchange with the other members on an Apple fan site many posts ago. If you had a valid point at one time, it's been lost in the later ramblings. Insults and personal attacks do nothing but get you ignored. Now you're just leaving the impression of being immature.
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post #64 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Cgrisar,
You lost any chance of having an intelligent exchange with the other members on an Apple fan site many posts ago. If you had a valid point at one time, it's been lost in the later ramblings. Insults and personal attacks do nothing but get you ignored. Now you're just leaving the impression of being immature.

Did he ever have a valid point?
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post #65 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

How do you call a situation when you're in debt, no reserves in capital and burning cash?
Hey, fine by me. If you want me to say they never went broke, here you have it: They never "went broke".
Again, I'm perfectly OK with it. I made my point, whilst you, euh, well you didn't.

You're OK with making up blatant lies?

Apple was NEVER in a position where they had no capital reserves. At their worst, they had close to a billion dollars in the bank.

What is it with you Apple-haters that makes you fabricate nonsense like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Well, little guys. That's it for me today.
I've tried to, but I can't bear to talk to idiots any more.

Easy to fix - just stop talking to yourself.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #66 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"The iPhone has been a phenomenal success story for Apple and a watershed product for the market," Canalys Vice President and Principal Analyst Chris Jones said. "It's an impressive success story, given that Apple has only been in the smart phone market for four years.



The success of the many different versions of the iPhone has been amazing. But given the huge lead of Android, I question whether Apple's "a few sizes fit all" approach is the best way to go.
post #67 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Now I'm going to ask you, oh wise one, a trick question .... if you ran a company and could choose to "lead in one category only", which would you choose .... market share or profits ..... think carefully .... ouch.


But for buyers, market share is a good thing to jump into, while contributing to outsized profits does not directly give any benefits.

Its kind of like a sports fan bragging that even though his team wins 30% less games, he is happy because the ticket prices are higher than at any other stadium and the owners are getting richer faster than the champ's owners.
post #68 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

But for buyers, market share is a good thing to jump into, while contributing to outsized profits does not directly give any benefits.

Its kind of like a sports fan bragging that even though his team wins 30% less games, he is happy because the ticket prices are higher than at any other stadium and the owners are getting richer faster than the champ's owners.

Neither one of those are true.

1) From the consumer's PoV its install base that needs to be considered, not market share as that is merely a percentage of the market and says nothing about the ecosystem into which you are buying. For example, if Android has a 100% market share but there are only 50 unit sales per year there is no ecosystem. Or, if Android had 10% market share but there were 1 billion unit sales per year there is a considerable ecosystem regardless of who has the highest share.

2) By buying a phone from a company that can use economy of scale and other efficiencies to turn a profit you, as a consumer, buy into a higher likelihood of buying a better device with includes, but is not limited to, better customer support if there is an issue with your device. An example of Apple's success benefiting the consumer above and beyond what is expected is iCloud's integration with iOS and Mac OS X for syncing, backing up, and all the associated services. Another example are the new services from iTunes Store that were negotiated.

3) The customer shouldn't care about market share or how much a company profits from a product they are selling, but how much utility is gained by the purchase of the product.
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post #69 of 93
I can't believe that you guys all got sucked into that blatant trollfest. What were you thinking?
post #70 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

But for buyers, market share is a good thing to jump into, while contributing to outsized profits does not directly give any benefits.

What buyers are you talking about ? product ? stock ? what ?
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #71 of 93
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Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I can't believe that you guys all got sucked into that blatant trollfest. What were you thinking?

Slow day...
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post #72 of 93
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Originally Posted by newbee View Post

What buyers are you talking about ? product ? stock ? what ?

Product buyers. Stock buyers are owners of the company, and as such, ARE the company.

The buyer of a sports team cares only about ROI. The sports fans care about other things. Few brag that their team's owners are getting rich more quickly than the owners of the champions.

"Yeah, the other team wins more than twice as many games and has more fans and is consistently pulling ahead, but I root for my team because it makes its owners the richest." Naw. Not usually in sports.

How about TV? "I like that actor because he gets paid a lot more per episode than anyone else."

Cars? "Well, even though that car is a bit better and costs a lot less, I bought my car based upon which company had the highest margins. "

Buyers and sellers have different interests.
post #73 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

Product buyers. Stock buyers are owners of the company, and as such, ARE the company.

The buyer of a sports team cares only about ROI. The sports fans care about other things. Few brag that their team's owners are getting rich more quickly than the owners of the champions.

"Yeah, the other team wins more than twice as many games and has more fans and is consistently pulling ahead, but I root for my team because it makes its owners the richest." Naw. Not usually in sports.

How about TV? "I like that actor because he gets paid a lot more per episode than anyone else."

Cars? "Well, even though that car is a bit better and costs a lot less, I bought my car based upon which company had the highest margins. "

Buyers and sellers have different interests.

It was a nice try at an analogy but in the end it's a fail.

To view this as a sport you'd have to consider Apple as the team with the highest win rate... but, if you add together all the wins of the other teams then of course the number will be higher.

There's your analogy made right.
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post #74 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and not knowing how to spell "losing".

Now, if only I had a $ for each time "losing" was misspelt on this forum...
post #75 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

It was a nice try at an analogy but in the end it's a fail.

To view this as a sport you'd have to consider Apple as the team with the highest win rate... but, if you add together all the wins of the other teams then of course the number will be higher.

There's your analogy made right.

Analogies often fail to prove a point. Usually too many variables. I really try to avoid them.
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post #76 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

Let's wait the day that Samsung or any other player will sell more smartphones than Apple in a single quarter. I wonder what kind of lame excuse you'll find.

Hint: "they sold more versions of a smartphones than Apple" might work. Well, I suppose you'll come up with another bright insight.


Really, such a fine brand as Apple doesn't deserve the idiots that you are

Dude, you are full of it. You have no clue. Give up. Market share !=profit.

It was entirely predictable that android would overtake iOS. Should that bother Apple much? No, the companies that should be worried are Microsoft, rimm and nokia.

Apple takes the cream...no..it OWNS the cream!
post #77 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Dude, you are full of it. You have no clue. Give up. Market share !=profit.

I think the rest of us are trying ignore rather than respond.\
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post #78 of 93
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Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Except iOS is not actually a "smartphone platform."

That is simply not true.

"We never saw ourselves in a platform war with Microsoft, and maybe that’s why we lost." - Steve Jobs

http://www.cultofmac.com/the-top-10-...n-review/73792

Nevermind. I didn't read closely enough. You're right. iOS is not *only* smart phones. My bad.
post #79 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

It was entirely predictable that android would overtake iOS.

Speak for yourself. Do you predict that Android tablets will relegate the iPad to niche status? I remember many comments predicting that Android would never gain traction, but now it outsells IOS on phones by a factor of more than 2:1.

But I see few predictions that Android will ever dominate the tablet market.
post #80 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Analogies often fail to prove a point. Usually too many variables. I really try to avoid them.

True... but I couldn't just say his analogy was a fail without explaining why...
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