iPad competitors still can't match Apple's design efficiencies - Page 2

Originally Posted by wizard69

Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.

Originally Posted by Oflife

...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser.

2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.

Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade.

I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.

I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.

I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.

Originally Posted by solipsism

More RAM won't make the CPU process faster or make the battery last longer.

Originally Posted by xSamplex

Asus looks like the value leader based on that table...

Originally Posted by mjtomlin

iOS uses a more modern rendering engine than Android. Animations are much smoother which makes over all system performance feel snappier!

Originally Posted by solipsism

Dishonest by not considering a spec sheet listing for a handheld device they think is important for the sale of their device? You'll have to explain that argument in detail.

... Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser...

Originally Posted by AppleLover2

Me, I wish I could pay another $14 and get real multitasking.

Originally Posted by wizard69


Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.

Originally Posted by solipsism

More RAM won't make the CPU process faster or make the battery last longer.

Originally Posted by solipsism

I figured his mention of price was a veiled comment about how the competitors have double the RAM.

Originally Posted by GQB

Oh give it a rest.
Apple is SOOO MEAN! They just want to screw everyone, blah blah blah.

I have no idea what you mean when you talk about sluggish browsing. Even on iPad 1 I found it more enjoyable than on desktops, and heads and tails above any other touch device I've tried.

BTW, Apple is A company, not a group of companies, so its "Apple IS", not "Apple ARE".
You don't say 'Great Britain ARE' do you?

Originally Posted by Oflife

...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser. 2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.

Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade. I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.

I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.

I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.

Originally Posted by AppleLover2

Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.

I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.

Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.

Originally Posted by vvswarup

There's a such thing as doing your due diligence before going out and plunking down $500 on something.

Originally Posted by wizard69

It may be crass but it is true and the iPad demonstrates clearly that Java sucks and needs considerable hardware to support. It isn't that the Java runtime slows things down, even though it does, it is that the JVM and support takes up a considerable amount of RAM. When Apple doubled the RAM in the iPad almost all of that went to supporting apps on the device.

Also Apple puts very tight controls on what runs in back ground. Now this may be a bad thing if you have an app you actually want to run in background it does mean that again more memory is there to support the app. On top of that Apple isn't supporting a lot of anything in the kernel, thus no drivers taking up RAM. So in the end it is all about how the system uses the facilities available to it.


Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.

In the end Androids problems run far deeper than just being based on a Java like VM. Fundamentally it is a rushed product, driven by people with no vision. Apple on the other hand had a vision right from the start. For example the very first iPhone made extensive use of the GPU on the chip, on Android it is a choice of the hardware vendor.

In any event we still have Playbook and WebOS devices. Maybe WebOS can find a good steward to move it forward, Playbook is dead also unless RIM gets new management.

Originally Posted by ghostface147

Adios. Don't let the door hit you on the way out....or better yet, let it.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Don't you think keeping major changes like this from your buyers is a bit dishonest. It is no different than putting a Buick engine in a Chevy.

I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.

Originally Posted by AppleLover2

Yes. The stuff I quoted said that the RAM is 256M, saving $14.00.

I suspect that one big reason for not letting background apps run is insufficient RAM. I think your opinion is that the CPU couldn't handle it elegantly.

Maybe you are right, but if the reason is RAM, then like I said, I'd rather pay an extra $14 dollars and get more complete multitasking abilities in return.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Don't you think keeping major changes like this from your buyers is a bit dishonest. It is no different than putting a Buick engine in a Chevy.

I really don't have to expelling anything. Just realize that being an informed consumer is a good thing.

Originally Posted by ghostface147

Adios. Don't let the door hit you on the way out....or better yet, let it.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

The iPad sucks!

My Android tablet is only 2.9 inches thick, weighs 3.2 lbs., has 4 gigs of memory and it's made from laptop parts. This makes it very easy for me to fix it when it needs fixing, and heaven knows, it needs a hell of a lot of fixing. That is one particular feature which sure comes in handy. I happen to walk around with a screwdriver in my pocket, just in case. It also has a super fast 1.8 Ghz quad core processor which means that it only stutters and freezes once every 20 seconds.

Did I mention that my Android tablet has Flash! Yes, that's right you Apple fanbois and fangirls, it has Flash. I am a huge loser and the opposite sex won't even give me the time of day, so I spend most of my time on Facebook playing Farmville. I don't even dream about girls anymore, I now fantasize about having sex with cows. As you can tell by my tablet choice, I'm a picky person, so I won't just settle for any old cow, I prefer white cows with brown spots on them.

And yes, iOS has a ton more apps available than Android, I admit that, but who needs apps anyway? Even though the apps that I have on Android look like they were designed by a blind 5 year old, mentally disabled child, I am more than happy with the offering available on Android. I am also a huge cheapskate, and I don't mind ads at all. I have only spent $1.99 for all of my apps put together.

So there you have it Apple fanbois and girls, I highly suggest that you abandon the closed iOS environment and enter the laggy, choppy, ad plagued, malware infested, inferior performance and amateur app world of Android like I have done. Trust me, you will not regret it.

Originally Posted by Oflife

...I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers . . . I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.

Originally Posted by nikon133

Is that really the best you guys can offer as an answer? Because, honestly, sometimes is much better to say nothing and look smart.

While OP did get a bit emotional with his post, there's a point there. On my iPhone sometimes even opening only 2 pages forces browser to reload page whenever switching from one to another. And yes, it can be annoying.

Originally Posted by Oflife

...I have owned both iPad 1 and 2, and even with 512MB in the iPad 2, web browsing is horrible - and I won't accept Apple fanbois (of which I am one when they yet things right, such as the MB Air 11"), but 1. Scrolling on a web page is nasty with iPad Safari - the content jumps back up to the top if some content is still loading, something that never happens on any other browser. 2) Worse, and some of us thought this would be cured with iPad 2, content keeps reloading every time you switch pages - this causes havoc if you are posting comments, logged into a service, or just want to go back read something you loaded earlier, but do NOT want updated because the content may change.

Apple are doing this on purpose to force people who NEED their products to work properly to upgrade. I am willing to bet iPad 3 will NOT do this, yet every Android tablet I know, including those costing just £70 are able to open MULTIPLE web pages properly.

I am VERY angry at Apple for manipulating their customers and glad that I can remain impartial and not be brainwashed, despite having owned almost every computer or iOS product they have ever made, other than PowerMac or Mac Pro.

I expect this massive usability flaw in iOS for iPad Safari to be fixed in iOS 5 else I am selling the iPad 2 and getting a Motorola Xoom, LG or Samsung Galaxy Tab.

Originally Posted by nikon133

Is that really the best you guys can offer as an answer? Because, honestly, sometimes is much better to say nothing and look smart.

While OP did get a bit emotional with his post, there's a point there. On my iPhone sometimes even opening only 2 pages forces browser to reload page whenever switching from one to another. And yes, it can be annoying.

Originally Posted by abbati

I read a review somewhere that claimed apple fixed this problem in iOS 5, can't confirm it... but am sure I did...

Originally Posted by johnnyb0731

One decent reason for more RAM might be the ability to open large pdfs in ibooks without splitting the document

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil

iBooks can open PDFs over double the size of the amount of RAM in the system, so I don't see what this has to do with anything.

Originally Posted by johnnyb0731

Well in my case iBooks choked on a multi gig design document that I would have rather reviewed on my ipad rather than printing out 100+ pages or reading on a desktop

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil

How multi was multi-gig? Over 5? I see over 5 being a problem.

Originally Posted by wizard69

As a side not it has been said that engineers and managers at RIM (or one of the old line phone companies) didn't believe Apples commercials when the iPhone first debuted. They literally thought it was a fake that what they where doing on the platform was impossible. It is no wonder that everyone is still playing catch up.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Not really, Apple has been very dishonest here in not publicly stating how much RAM is in the various iPad models. This data is valid for comparison within a family of devices.

Originally Posted by johnnyb0731

It was two or three I believe. I don't really remember which one it was exactly or I'd go and double check

Originally Posted by mjtomlin

iOS uses a more modern rendering engine than Android. Animations are much smoother which makes over all system performance feel snappier!

For instance. The rendering system, that is, the method by which UI widgets like menus and buttons and such get painted on the screen, is primarily software-based.

What does that mean? Lets take the screenshot above as an example. If you pressed the Down key, you would expect the Homepage entry to be selected instead of Go to. So you press the Down key. This causes an invalidate, meaning, please repaint the screen. So the screen is cleared, then:

The OS redraws the status bar at the top
The WebView redraws the Google.com website
The Menu draws its translucent black background and border
All the menu text is drawn
The blue gradient highlight is drawn over Homepage.
This all happens very quickly, and you only ever see the final result, so it looks like just a few pixels have changed, but in fact the whole screen must be reconsidered and redrawn.

If this sounds familiar, its because this is the basic method used in GDI, the rendering system introduced with Microsoft Windows 1.0. That sounds damning, but really most GUIs operated this way.

Until the iPhone came along

When youre using an iPhone, youre playing a hardware-accelerated 3D game. You know, the kind of 3D where everything is made out of hundreds of little triangles.

When you flick through your list of friends in the Contacts app, youre causing those triangles to move around. And theres a camera, just like a 3D shooter, but the camera is fixed above the Contacts apps virtual surface and so it appears 2D.

Which is a long way of saying that everything on iOS is drawn using OpenGL. This is why animation on iOS is so hopelessly fast. You may have noticed that -drawRect is not called for each frame of an animation. Its called once, then you draw your lines and circles and text onto an OpenGL surface (which you didnt even realize), then Core Animation moves these surfaces around like pulling on the strings of a marionette. All the final compositing for each frame is done in hardware by the GPU.

Android seems to have made the decision early on that they wouldnt force their manufacturing partners to include a GPU. This decision made total sense back in the pre-iPhone days, but now its causing pain, as even the new hardware acceleration in Android 3.0 is limited by the original software-based compositing system.

So heres the catch with the wonderful flexible layout system in Android: You must be very careful. If you animate certain kinds of properties, you can easily force the CPU to do all that fancy, expensive layout on each animation frame. And the CPU is very busy right now parsing some JSON from a web API or something, OK?