or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › South Korea fines Apple nearly $3k for 'illegal' location tracking
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

South Korea fines Apple nearly $3k for 'illegal' location tracking

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
The Korean Communications Commission announced on Wednesday that it will fine Apple 3 million won, or $2,830, for what it has deemed "illegal" gathering of location data from iPhone users.

The commission has ordered Apple to pay the fine in exchange for violating Korea's location information laws, according to The Associated Press. Apple previously paid 1 million won, or $946, in a separate lawsuit from a Korean iPhone user.

The iPhone location controversy gained attention in April, when a pair of security researchers raised concerns over a database file found in iOS 4 that appeared to store users' location information. A week later, Apple responded to the allegations, saying the file is actually "a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location," with the intent of providing location services faster to users than traditional GPS can offer.

In a public statement, Apple reassured users that it was not tracking the location of iPhones. Instead, the file was described as a "crowd-sourced database" designed to help the iPhone more rapidly and accurately calculate its location.

Apple quickly issued a fix to a bug that allowed the file to preserve location information for up to a year. iOS 4.3.3 was released in early may, and it reduced the size of the database file, made sure it is no longer backed up to iTunes, and allows users to delete the cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.

The iPhone's "crowd-sourced database" | Source: O'Reilly Radar

In response to the Korean Communications Commission's fine, an Apple spokesman in Seoul, Steve Park, reportedly reiterated his company's stance that it has never tracked users' locations and will never do so.

South Korea has been very aggressive in snuffing out what the country believes are inappropriate methods of location tracking with portable devices. In May, police raided Google's offices on suspicions that the search giant had collected unauthorized personal data.
post #2 of 37
I wonder if Google and Microsoft received similar fines.
post #3 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Korean Communications Commission announced on Wednesday that it will fine Apple 3 million won, or $2,830, for what it has deemed "illegal" gathering of location data from iPhone users.



Wow. Almost $3,000.00. That's a big hit for a company the size of Apple.

Not.
post #4 of 37
If they're anything like my company, it will cost them that much to figure out how to cut a check that small.
post #5 of 37
Pocket change?
post #6 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

Wow. Almost $3,000.00. That's a big hit for a company the size of Apple.

Not.

Well, no. But it's not a B2B thing. It's one private user. How many users are there? In Korea then. Maybe 100 000? 100 000 x 3 000 = 300 000 000.

I have no clue as to how the legal system i Korea works, but it can get a bit more expensive than this.
post #7 of 37
Looks like a case of protecting/supporting their own Samsung....??
post #8 of 37
$3,000?

Don't worry, Apple, I got this one... <pulls out checkbook>
post #9 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I wonder if Google and Microsoft received similar fines.

Probably not. I don't think they were storing a years worth of tracking data, backing it up unencrypted, not allowing it to be turned off etc
post #10 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

Wow. Almost $3,000.00. That's a big hit for a company the size of Apple.

Not.

Its the thought that counts. It has set a precedent.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply
post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Chicken View Post

Looks like a case of protecting/supporting their own Samsung....??

Because Samsung is based in Korea? Correlation is not causation.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply
post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumme-totte View Post

Well, no. But it's not a B2B thing. It's one private user. How many users are there? In Korea then. Maybe 100 000? 100 000 x 3 000 = 300 000 000.

I have no clue as to how the legal system i Korea works, but it can get a bit more expensive than this.

100,000 x 2,830= 283,000,000 a bit cheaper (not that it matters that much with how much cash Apple has)

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

Reply

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

Reply
post #13 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Probably not. I don't think they were storing a years worth of tracking data, backing it up unencrypted, not allowing it to be turned off etc

From what I remember of "location-gate", Google was tracking location for years unencrypted and beaming it back to the mothership 2-3 times an hour to be stored for years and years.
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
Reply
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
Reply
post #14 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Korean Communications Commission announced on Wednesday that it will fine Apple 3 million won, or $2,830, for what it has deemed "illegal" gathering of location data from iPhone users....

The repeated use of "illegal" in quotes is sort of offensive.

If it's illegal in Korea, it's illegal in Korea. What anyone else thinks about it is irrelevant. You think Korea should run on what the US Congress finds to be illegal instead?
post #15 of 37
S Korea needs a good lesson.

1. No new contracts with Samsung or any other Korean company.
2. Continue to sue the hell out of Samsung for patent infringements. Be blood thirsty, Apple.
3. Don't sell anything Apple to S Koreans. Let them stew with Android.

Enough is enough.

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply
post #16 of 37
Hmm, that amount seems like some overzealous government bureaucratic was looking for a way to buy a top of the line Mac. No company would take the time to turn this over to the legal department, it is a pesky fine not worth fighting. Betcha the money comes right back and the regulator will be carting a shiny new Air next week!
post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

3. Don't sell anything Apple to S Koreans. Let them stew with Android.

That's about the easiest way to keep Samsung alive. And the stupidest thing Apple could ever do.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #18 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

S Korea needs a good lesson.

1. No new contracts with Samsung or any other Korean company.
2. Continue to sue the hell out of Samsung for patent infringements. Be blood thirsty, Apple.
3. Don't sell anything Apple to S Koreans. Let them stew with Android.

Enough is enough.

Spite I not a good business model, so I'd just go with suggestion number 2, unless better reasons than this fine exist for the other two.

Thompson
post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

Wow. Almost $3,000.00. That's a big hit for a company the size of Apple.

Not.

But Apple was found to be guilty. That's more important than the $3k for a single user.
post #20 of 37
deleted
post #21 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Its the thought that counts. It has set a precedent.

exactly. it's quite sad and telling how several others are so dismissive of the court ruling.
post #22 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

S Korea needs a good lesson ...

[ snip ]

with that attitude i hope you never start or run a business because it'll be an absolute failure. Samsung is one of Apple's most important business partners and South Korea is a fantastic market in the smartphone / mobile device arena.
post #23 of 37
3 million won? I think we can all say that Apple won too!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #24 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

S Korea needs a good lesson.

1. No new contracts with Samsung or any other Korean company.
2. Continue to sue the hell out of Samsung for patent infringements. Be blood thirsty, Apple.
3. Don't sell anything Apple to S Koreans. Let them stew with Android.

Enough is enough.

#1 rule for Apple component suppliers: You mess with Apple, you lose Apple's business.

Way back in 2000, some PR weenie at ATI sent out a press release that leaked news of several new iMac models just a few days ahead of Steve Jobs' Macworld announcement. (Can't remember if it was SF or NY or Boston Macworld.) Steve was so angry at ATI that he removed all mention of ATI or Radeon from his keynote, despite the fact that a new, powerful Radeon GPU was newly available in many Mac models. All signage at the Apple booth that mentioned ATI or Radeon was crossed out or removed.

Apple began promoting NVIDIA GPUs soon after that, I believe, and ATI became a second class citizen among Apple component suppliers. ATI got the smackdown just for mentioning a few new iMacs. No, ATI didn't get completely cut out of Apple's products. But I'm sure Steve would have done it if he could.

And now Samsung is trying to sue Apple? After blatantly cloning the iPad design? Goodbye Samsung. Hello Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company!

TSCM may produce A5 SoCs for Apple:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...o_samsung.html

TSMC starts trial A6 production:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ps_report.html

TSMC home page:
http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

S Korea needs a good lesson.

1. No new contracts with Samsung or any other Korean company.
2. Continue to sue the hell out of Samsung for patent infringements. Be blood thirsty, Apple.
3. Don't sell anything Apple to S Koreans. Let them stew with Android.

Enough is enough.

That would be the deathblow for the US economoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

TSCM may produce A5 SoCs for Apple:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...o_samsung.html

TSMC starts trial A6 production:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ps_report.html

TSMC home page:
http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm

The very same TSMC, which just recently announced - we didn't see that coming, did we? - problems with it's 28 nm manufactoring process?
post #26 of 37
I know it stings, Apple, but you made the bugyou pay the price!

Get back on the horse, and try to do better next time. Money doesnt grow on trees!
post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I know it stings, Apple, but you made the bugyou pay the price!

Get back on the horse, and try to do better next time. Money doesnt grow on trees!

I'd be interested in knowing what the Korean law says. They have been using our iPhones to build their wifi-location database, which I don't consider tracking me but many did.

And Apple is still getting that data (used for calculating future users' positions) - with 3 exceptions
1) there's only 1 week of locations cached
2) it's encrypted on the computer it's backed up on.
3) we have an option to turn it off

I presume those changes are enough to protect Apple in future?

I'd happily have a 1 year cache. I like my iPhone knowing my location the instant it sees the wifi.
post #28 of 37
deleted
post #29 of 37
Quote:
According to the KCC, Apple Korea compiled data concerning the whereabouts of 2 million iPhone users from June 22 last year to May 4. Although the company said it had first obtained customers' consent, Apple violated the law because it did not inform them that such information was being monitored and stored even after the tracking function was turned off.

Apple stored the location of cellphone towers and Wi-Fi hotspots in users' phones but did not try to find out who the iPhones belonged to, the commission concluded.

In a press briefing, Seok Je-beom of the KCC said, "We found that Apple collected data not to track the location of specific users but to improve its location information service, so we imposed a relatively small fine."

The Korean law on the protection of personal information imposes a jail sentence of up to five years or a fine of up to W50 million if guilty parties are found to have collected location data without customers' consent.

If Apple were found guity of the personal information to track people, the MAX fine would have been $ 47,232 (50 million won) x 2 million people = $94.5 BILLION.

Remember, this is just the decision set by the courts (government). We aren't even talking about the likely CIVIL lawsuits from the 2 million customers that would sue for damages related to their tracking and invasion of privacy. I'd say, Apple dodged a bullet on this one.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply
post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

If Apple were found guity of the personal information to track people, the MAX fine would have been $ 47,232 (50 million won) x 2 million people = $94.5 BILLION.

It's a good thing that didn't happen at all for any reason whatsoever, huh?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #31 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

S Korea needs a good lesson.

1. No new contracts with Samsung or any other Korean company.
2. Continue to sue the hell out of Samsung for patent infringements. Be blood thirsty, Apple.
3. Don't sell anything Apple to S Koreans. Let them stew with Android.

Enough is enough.


Too bad, Apple wont (cant) leave away from the tentacles of Samsung.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply
post #32 of 37
Consumers never win here. If anything cost Apple substantially they'd simply raise Mac prices ever so slightly and amortize any payments out via their Mac sales or iTunes purchases.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #33 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumme-totte View Post

Well, no. But it's not a B2B thing. It's one private user.


Not according to the AP article that AI used as a source. That article says nothing about 'per user'

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #34 of 37
South Korea found that Apple's location services were not "smooth" enough.
post #35 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidhero View Post

The very same TSMC, which just recently announced - we didn't see that coming, did we? - problems with it's 28 nm manufactoring process?

Gawd TSMC is continually in the news with their manufacturing problems. Nvidia's failures to get to 40nm with TSMC due to TSMC or Nvidia's bloated post-G92 GPU designs has cost both of them dearly.
post #36 of 37
FWIW, the Korean news report on the fines, Apple and Google.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/artic...sp?aid=2939771
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #37 of 37
deleted
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › South Korea fines Apple nearly $3k for 'illegal' location tracking