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Ignorant Scum Rioters Trash England (not banks this time) - Page 3

post #81 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Tell you what. Let's ask a rioter. In the act of rioting.

http://www.business2community.com/tr...unction-049456

"We are getting our TAXES BACK."

Libertarianism, taken to its logical conclusion. Just listen.

Where in that video did anyone say they were looting to "get our taxes back"? I watched it twice and must have missed it.

But if anyone really did claim they were destroying and/or stealing the property of others to "get our taxes back" - acts clearly contrary to libertarianism at its very core - why would you assume that person and ALL of the looters/rioters are libertarians?

It really doesn't make any sense if you truly understand what libertarianism is.

If you don't understand what libertarianism is, then I could see how you would arrive at that conclusion.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #82 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Where in that video did anyone say they were looting to "get our taxes back"? I watched it twice and must have missed it.

But if anyone really did claim they were destroying and/or stealing the property of others to "get our taxes back" - acts clearly contrary to libertarianism at its very core - why would you assume that person and ALL of the looters/rioters are libertarians?

It really doesn't make any sense if you truly understand what libertarianism is.

If you don't understand what libertarianism is, then I could see how you would arrive at that conclusion.

It's libertarianism taken to its logical conclusion.

You built this shop? Fuck you. Laws are repressive. I want this. I reject the state, and its laws. I want this, and no "law" can stop me. I am an individual. My desires are more important than your desires. Right now it's about me. Who will stop me? "Society"? What is that? I WANT THIS. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

It's not who will let ME, it's who will stop ME.
post #83 of 122
Thread Starter 
Double post.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #84 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You think that I and people like me want to impose eugenics on society.

And you know I have since apologized for claiming or inferring that ALL liberals want to impose eugenics on society.

I do think some people want to impose eugenics on society. Some of them happen to have liberal political philosophies.

Quote:
Why are you talking to me? I must be a disgusting, terrible individual.

Can you hear me? Are you capable of listening? Is there any point in me talking to you?

Why do I bother showing you any civility at all if you think, if you seriously believe, that I and people like me, are capable of such a monstrous desire?

I have not thought or said such things about you specifically.

And you have not shown me much civility. But I keep talking to you because I know other people with open minds are reading this conversation and I might, at least, be able to help them understand a little more about libertarianism and see that I am trying to carry on a civil discussion, here.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #85 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Really?

I started calling people dumbass and adolescent? I started accusing people of whining? I started calling people pussies?

Really?

I started with a simple question which you've side-stepped, possibly because the point hits too close to a realistic comparison to your dearly held worldview which views the rich as greedy and evil, views other people (the rich especially) as your property, other people's (the rich's especially) property as a resource to be mined...by force if necessary.

It is rather strange reasoning you have. In your world, those who disrespect private property, steal and use violence to get what they want are the same as those who respect private property, don't steal, oppose stealing and the use of violence. In your world those fight for fiscal sanity and restraint are to be blamed when an outside party declares that fiscal insanity and unrestrained spending are called risky and dangerous. In your world view the person who asks the question "started it" and the one who calls names and spits at the screen and keyboard did not.


For Christs sake mj stop it.

I don't hate the rich and have never hated the rich.

My own family in the UK is very wealthy, I'm not but I do fine. I'm tired of this crap.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #86 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

It's libertarianism taken to its logical conclusion.

You built this shop? Fuck you. Laws are repressive. I want this. I reject the state, and its laws. I want this, and no "law" can stop me. I am an individual. My desires are more important than your desires. Right now it's about me. Who will stop me? "Society"? What is that? I WANT THIS. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

It's not who will let ME, it's who will stop ME.

Laws in and of themselves are not necessarily repressive, but how they are enforced.

Libertarianism encompasses a variety of different philosophies pertaining to law and government. Anarchism is one of them. Anarchists advocate a stateless society, usually based on voluntaryism. But even then, a stateless society is not necessarily a lawless society, rather it is a society in which centralized government does not exist and cannot be used by people to impose their will on others by force.

Some libertarians advocate minarchy, as opposed to anarchy. They believe government is a "necessary evil", the powers of which should be limited to protection of individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #87 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

For Christs sake mj stop it.

I don't hate the rich and have never hated the rich.

I haven't claimed that you hate the rich. I merely addressed your "reasoning" which appears to have this bizarro up is down, black is white, good is evil characteristic to it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #88 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Who the fuck is Rothbard?

We are trying to break in to this television shop. We don't have time for this non-aggression thingy. We are free individuals, and anyone who lays a hand on us is the enemy. Particularly those "public servants" paid for by taxes: THE POLICE, instrument of the state.

Tell you what. Let's ask a rioter. In the act of rioting.

http://www.business2community.com/tr...unction-049456

"We are getting our TAXES BACK."

Libertarianism, taken to its logical conclusion. Just listen.


"It's the rich people. We're showing the rich people we can get what we want."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #89 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I haven't claimed that you hate the rich. I merely addressed your "reasoning" which appears to have this bizarro up is down, black is white, good is evil characteristic to it.

You just said this, so of course you think I hate the rich- "your dearly held worldview which views the rich as greedy and evil..."


Can you guess who said this-

"I'm sure you've been watching this mess in Washington.
I'd like you to know how I feel about it.

I haven't voted for one of these lousy budget packages for years and I won't vote for this one.
It would raise taxes on the wrong people.

Unlike some folks around here I think everyone should pay their fair share. Including the rich.
We need to protect our seniors from Medicare cuts too.

I don't care if the President or Congressional leaders twist my arm. I won't support any deal that isn't a fair deal for the working families of Kentucky."

That's right, it was none other than Mitch McConnell, campaigning against a fundamentalist Republican back in 1990.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #90 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Where in that video did anyone say they were looting to "get our taxes back"? I watched it twice and must have missed it.

trumptman posted the link earlier- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXcI-..._order&list=UL
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #91 of 122
Thread Starter 

Yeah they can get a pair of f'ing trainers!
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #92 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You just said this, so of course you think I hate the rich- "your dearly held worldview which views the rich as greedy and evil..."

Well then I apologize if I've incorrectly lumped you in among those whose worldview does view the rich as greedy and evil.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #93 of 122
Thread Starter 
Levi's are for looters - http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ad-uk-violence

"Mark Borkowski, a PR and branding expert, said: "Talk about bad timing. This illustrates what brands have been doing associating themselves with gangster-type behaviour. It shows how far Levi's has come from the ad showing teen idol Nick Kamen in his underwear in a laundrette."

The ad on YouTube- http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=KT16DcHcjRA
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #94 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well then I apologize if I've incorrectly lumped you in among those whose worldview does view the rich as greedy and evil.

Thank you.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #95 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

trumptman posted the link earlier- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXcI-..._order&list=UL

Thanks, Hands.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #96 of 122
British Degeneracy on Parade
THEODORE DALRYMPLE

Quote:
The riots are the apotheosis of the welfare state and popular culture in their British form. A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice. It believes itself deprived (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class), even though each member of it has received an education costing $80,000, toward which neither he norquite likelyany member of his family has made much of a contribution; indeed, he may well have lived his entire life at others expense, such that every mouthful of food he has ever eaten, every shirt he has ever worn, every television he has ever watched, has been provided by others. Even if he were to recognize this, he would not be grateful, for dependency does not promote gratitude. On the contrary, he would simply feel that the subventions were not sufficient to allow him to live as he would have liked.
post #97 of 122
Thread Starter 
"Richard Mannington Bowes, 68, died from head injuries days after the attack in Ealing, west London on Monday night.

He was pictured lying face down in a pool of blood after being assaulted while trying to stop youths setting fire to large rubbish bins across the green from the flat where he lived alone.

The suspect was held in west London on suspicion of murder, rioting and carrying out three burglaries, Scotland Yard said.

It has emerged that Mr Mannington Bowes was a recluse who was tormented by youths repeatedly urinating and throwing litter in the street outside his home.

He was placed on a life support machine but from the outset his condition was so serious that doctors did not believe he would pull through.

His estranged sister travelled down from her home in Derby yesterday, for a chance to say goodbye.

Neighbours said he was a man of “old-fashioned values” and had a history of confronting anti-social behaviour in the area, regularly reprimanding youths for littering in the alley outside his flat.

A friend and local businessman who was also attacked in the riots said Mr Mannington Bowes was a “harmless” and “lovely” man but he would often confront people. “He was the type of guy who was always asking people, 'Don’t put the rubbish there.’ He was always picking up rubbish and cleaning the road,” said the friend, who asked not to be named because he still feared reprisals by youths after his business was attacked and he suffered cuts to his face.

Another resident, Alastair Swinn, said Mr Mannington Bowes had told him off for smoking out of the window and dropping ash in the lane by their flats. “After that I got an ashtray,” he said.

Mr Mannington Bowes confronted stone-throwing youths on Monday night, but he was attacked and left for dead with a fractured skull.

Police were held back from reaching him by up to 100 youths throwing missiles, including bricks and chunks of paving slabs."
~ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tched-off.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #98 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorjack View Post

british degeneracy on parade
theodore dalrymple

Bullshit.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #99 of 122
Wow, the Lion right-click to look up in Dictionary with the nice pop-over came in handy for that paragraph...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

British Degeneracy on Parade
THEODORE DALRYMPLE

"The riots are the apotheosis of the welfare state and popular culture in their British form. A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice. It believes itself deprived (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class), even though each member of it has received an education costing $80,000, toward which neither he norquite likelyany member of his family has made much of a contribution; indeed, he may well have lived his entire life at others expense, such that every mouthful of food he has ever eaten, every shirt he has ever worn, every television he has ever watched, has been provided by others. Even if he were to recognize this, he would not be grateful, for dependency does not promote gratitude. On the contrary, he would simply feel that the subventions were not sufficient to allow him to live as he would have liked."
post #100 of 122
Thread Starter 
Here's how Glasgow, Scotland which has low education standards and high poverty, is reducing the crime and getting people back on track.

Part of the success has been caused by sending the worst and least likely to change people to jail. That results in those who were led astray having less peer pressure from the instigators to commit crimes.

England in the past has rejected these methods, staying removed from their lives, but now Cameron has said he is looking into adopting the same policies. There was virtually no violence in Scotland as England was trashed.

What the rioters did was wrong and completely unjustified, but the key to stopping this violence is to help people out of their nosedives and offer them hope-


"One of the most significant announcements is that the example of Strathclyde Police anti-gang strategy could be rolled out across the UK.

The operation targeting gangs in Glasgow has resulted in a 50% reduction in violent offending by those taking part. In a city with a stab rate on a par with New York that is some result.

The prosaically-named Community Initiative to Reduce Violence (CIRV) is itself a copy of the more bling-sounding Boston Ceasefire project which was ran in that US city from 1996 and had success too.

Both schemes made breakthroughs by talking to gang members, offering them an alternative, and getting them to confront the victims, the mothers, the surgeons and the cops that have to stitch back together the slashed lives of gang violence.

Quite simply the young gang members were told if they stopped the gang fights they'd have access to help with training, housing, education and community groups. If they carried on, they'd go to jail.


Four hundred gang members signed up in Glasgow - mostly pressurised through their parents - and violent offending among those who undertook the most intensive programme fell by 73%."
~ http://whitehall1212.blogspot.com/20...ssons-for.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #101 of 122
While reading about these recent sad events, I noticed this small detail:
Remember when books were worthy of burning? | The Economist

Excerpt:
Quote:
RIOTING and books share a stormy history. Think of the so-called Bonfire of the Vanities in 1497, when Girolamo Savonarola and his band of religious followers roundly collected and set fire to mounds of pagan literature.

I think this Savonarola analogy is misplaced, the Bonfire of the Vanities was more of an auto-da-fé than an actual riot, but nevermind.
Quote:
In London in 2011, however, bibliophiles can breathe easy: despite the riots, books have tended to stay safely on their shelves, their subtle power blithely overlooked. When it comes to targets for looters, books are losing out to high-end jeans and Apple-made gadgets. One waggish employee at a Waterstones in Manchester reportedly declared they would remain open despite the ruckus. If they steal some books they might learn something, he said (a quote that has circulated widely in the twittosphere). But he seems doomed to disappointment: as yet no Waterstones and only one WH Smith have been targeted. As Patrick French tweeted yesterday, The only shop NOT looted down the road from where I live was Waterstones.

Note to self: for the lawless violent rioters, books, unlike Plasma screen HDTVs or Apple gear, are not all that sought after.

I think small details like this are worth exploring if one is interested in finding the various causes of this eruption of violence, which is worse than the Brixton riots of 1981 and 1985, which caused much concern at the time.
I suspect finding the causes of the riots has to be taken in a very British context, since it seems to be quite peculiar to the UK (compared with most other Western countries), it may have taken some time (at least a decade or two, or three) to take form as well. I have been thinking about it, without any answer yet.

Naturally, some may find it easier to just come up with some answer fitting ones political/social/economic/sexual/religious proclivities and then citing some media dispatches and opinion pieces corroborating said answer. Id do that too if I enjoyed it, I just dont.

By the way, UK unemployment rate is ~7.7% (I think it was 13% back in 1981 cf. the Brixton riots) while US unemployment rate is ~9.1%, if one cares for these sorts of things.

So far, my personal opinion is that the government has failed to efficiently cope with these riots. Im not a specialist of riot control (or is it called public disorder management these days? I dont keep up), but perhaps riots of this scope could be met with more, assertive (while non-lethal) means, like water cannons, PAVA spray, and whatnot. It might have reduced the riots extension and violence or even prevented the tragic death of three civilians already.

I hope that these riots subside soon.
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post #102 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel Goldstein View Post

Note to self: for the lawless violent rioters, books, unlike Plasma screen HDTVs or Apple gear, are not all that sought after.

Conclusive proof that the looters are not libertarians.

I, too, hope the riots end soon.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #103 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel Goldstein View Post

While reading about these recent sad events, I noticed this small detail:
Remember when books were worthy of burning? | The Economist

Excerpt:

I think this Savonarola analogy is misplaced, the Bonfire of the Vanities was more of an auto-da-fé than an actual riot, but nevermind.

Note to self: for the lawless violent rioters, books, unlike Plasma screen HDTVs or Apple gear, are not all that sought after.

I think small details like this are worth exploring if one is interested in finding the various causes of this eruption of violence, which is worse than the Brixton riots of 1981 and 1985, which caused much concern at the time.
I suspect finding the causes of the riots has to be taken in a very British context, since it seems to be quite peculiar to the UK (compared with most other Western countries), it may have taken some time (at least a decade or two, or three) to take form as well. I have been thinking about it, without any answer yet.

Naturally, some may find it easier to just come up with some answer fitting one’s political/social/economic/sexual/religious proclivities and then citing some media dispatches and opinion pieces corroborating said answer. I’d do that too if I enjoyed it, I just don’t.

By the way, UK unemployment rate is ~7.7% (I think it was 13% back in 1981 cf. the Brixton riots) while US unemployment rate is ~9.1%, if one cares for these sorts of things.

So far, my personal opinion is that the government has failed to efficiently cope with these riots. I’m not a specialist of riot control (or is it called “public disorder management” these days? I don’t keep up), but perhaps riots of this scope could be met with more, assertive (while non-lethal) means, like water cannons, PAVA spray, and whatnot. It might have reduced the riots’ extension and violence or even prevented the tragic death of three civilians already.

I hope that these riots subside soon.

I just watched a 40 mins YouTube video of a street discussion in London right after the riots. I'm not sure if it offered any reasons why this new phenomena of widespread looting happened, but it gives a taste of what some people who were near the riots think. Here it is, though it can be difficult to hear all the views- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqA9-...layer_embedded

In part I think it was a power grab, the intention of which was to recruit others into the fold of criminality and gang life.

It's like they're saying to those just on the outside of their criminality-

"Look what we have", ie electronics, shoes etc, only normally affordable at a young age after months of work and saving.

"Look what power we have", ie, these streets are ours, everyone's scared of us.

This is what many of these people have been doing already, they've just upped the game, cast a wider net and now have one more tool to their belts.

It seems the cameras have done a great job at helping bring them to justice. If every time they riot they come under tougher laws and policing, they'll give up that tactic.

I heard on the radio earlier that a program that cost £10,000 a year helping vulnerable youths, saved £40,000 in policing and prison costs etc. Those who just want to cut money will only end up spending more later.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #104 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I heard on the radio earlier that a program that cost £10,000 a year helping vulnerable youths, saved £40,000 in policing and prison costs etc. Those who just want to cut money will only end up spending more later.

Facts like these are common sense. Yet for the fucktards, it's "cut, cut, cut" without thought of the consequences.
post #105 of 122

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #106 of 122
As part of an exchange about the UK riot, a friend of mine told me about this recent academic research by some European university professors.

Although I tend to be suspicious of all sorts of publications including those by university professors (particularly on matters of society and economics), I do have a weak spot for tables, graphs, and various lists of figures. Its twenty-seven pages long, so itll keep me occupied for some time.

So I thought some of you might find it interesting.
Austerity and Anarchy: Budget Cuts and Social Unrest in Europe,
1919-2009 (PDF file)


It begins with this:
Quote:
Does fiscal consolidation lead to social unrest? From the end of the Weimar
Republic in Germany in the 1930s to anti-government demonstrations in
Greece in 2010-11, austerity has tended to go hand in hand with politically
motivated violence and social instability. In this paper, we assemble cross-
country evidence for the period 1919 to the present, and examine the extent to
which societies become unstable after budget cuts. The results show a clear
positive correlation between fiscal retrenchment and instability. We test if the
relationship simply reflects economic downturns, and conclude that this is not
the key factor. We also analyse interactions with various economic and
political variables. While autocracies and democracies show a broadly similar
responses to budget cuts, countries with more constraints on the executive
are less likely to see unrest as a result of austerity measures. Growing media
penetration does not lead to a stronger effect of cut-backs on the level of
unrest.

(While I think the violence might not quite be politically motivated, it is certain its eruption is correlated to events of a political nature)

And if one is too impatient about the insides, it ends with that:
Quote:
We demonstrate that the general pattern of association between unrest
and budget cuts holds in Europe for the period 1919-2009. It can be found in
almost all sub-periods, and for all types of unrest. Strikingly, where we can
trace the cause of each incident (during the period 1980-95), we can show that
only austerity-inspired demonstrations respond to budget cuts in the time-
series. Also, when we use recently-developed data that allows clean
identification of policy-driven changes in the budget balance, our results hold.
Finally, the results are not affected by using alternative measures of unrest.
Contrary to what might be expected, we also find no evidence that the spread
of mass media facilitates the rise of mass protests.
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post #107 of 122
Ouch

The Soft-on-Crime Roots of British Disorder
In a civilized society people would be allowed to defend themselves with guns, not baseball bats.
By JOYCE LEE MALCOLM

Quote:
...
Great Britain's leniency began in the 1950s, with a policy that only under extraordinary circumstances would anyone under 17 be sent to prison. This was meant to rehabilitate young offenders. But the alternative to incarceration has been simply to warn them to behave, maybe require community service, and return them to the streets. There has been justifiable concern about causes of crime such as poverty and unemployment, but little admission that some individuals prefer theft to work and that deterrence must be taken seriously.

Victims of aggression who defend themselves or attempt to protect their property have been shown no such leniency. Burglars who injured themselves breaking into houses have successfully sued homeowners for damages. In February, police in Surrey told gardeners not to put wire mesh on the windows of their garden sheds as burglars might hurt themselves when they break in.
...
post #108 of 122
Thread Starter 
Finally some action in this town-

"Two men who posted messages on Facebook inciting other people to riot in their home towns have both been sentenced to four years in prison by a judge at Chester crown court.

Jordan Blackshaw, 20, set up an "event" called Smash Down in Northwich Town for the night of 8 August on the social networking site but no one apart from the police, who were monitoring the page, turned up at the pre-arranged meeting point outside a McDonalds restaurant. Blackshaw was promptly arrested."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...lls-men-jailed
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #109 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Ouch

The Soft-on-Crime Roots of British Disorder
In a civilized society people would be allowed to defend themselves with guns, not baseball bats.
By JOYCE LEE MALCOLM


I know plenty of people in the UK who have guns. Very few people here want more guns though. I dread to think what things would have been like if these degenerates had access to guns like in the US.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #110 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I know plenty of people in the UK who have guns. Very few people here want more guns though. I dread to think what things would have been like if these degenerates had access to guns like in the US.

So you acknowledge that people in the UK who want guns can get them. But the "degenerates", for some reason, can't?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #111 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

So you acknowledge that people in the UK who want guns can get them. But the "degenerates", for some reason, can't?


I don't own any guns and never have, so I'm not sure how all the laws work, but it's sure to be much harder than in the US to own one. I know that they're supposed to be locked away and they're pretty strict about that. I think if you were to look at the numbers of people who own guns here and how many they own it would be much lower than in the US. There are criminals with guns here, but most of these gang members here don't seem to have them. Perhaps a lot aren't old enough to legally have one and because of the limited numbers they are too expensive for them to buy illegally? They also aren't generally shooting each other, so they're not as needed for self preservation.

A few things from Wikipedia-

"The penalty for possession of a prohibited firearm without a certificate is a maximum of ten years in prison and an uncapped fine. Unauthorised possession of most kinds of firearm attract a mandatory minimum of five years.

Any person holding a Firearm or Shotgun Certificate must comply with strict conditions regarding such things as safe storage. These storage arrangements are checked by the police before a licence is first granted, and on every renewal of the licence. A local police force may impose additional conditions on ownership, over and above those set out by law.

The number of homicides per year committed with firearms has remained between a range of 49 and 97 in the 8 years to 2006. There were 2 fatal shootings of police officers in England and Wales in this period and 107 non-fatal shootings - an average of 9.7 per year over the same period.

By way of international comparison, in 2004 the police in the United States reported 9,326 gun homicides.
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...United_Kingdom
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #112 of 122
The main message being that in the UK they punish the good and forgive the bad.
post #113 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

The main message being that in the UK they punish the good and forgive the bad.

53 people died from gunshots during the LA riots.

1 person died from gunshots during the London riots.

No policemen were killed.

Guns obviously don't prevent riots, and they clearly increase deaths.

America imprisons more people per capita than any other nation in the world, and yet you have far more crimes of violence than any European nation and homicide rates in cities comparable to South Africa.

Next.
post #114 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

53 people died from gunshots during the LA riots.

1 person died from gunshots during the London riots.

No policemen were killed.

Guns obviously don't prevent riots, and they clearly increase deaths.

America imprisons more people per capita than any other nation in the world, and yet you have far more crimes of violence than any European nation and homicide rates in cities comparable to South Africa.

Next.

This.

Guns don't solve any of society's problems, and to believe so is excessively deluded.
post #115 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

53 people died from gunshots during the LA riots.

1 person died from gunshots during the London riots.

No policemen were killed.

Guns obviously don't prevent riots, and they clearly increase deaths.

America imprisons more people per capita than any other nation in the world, and yet you have far more crimes of violence than any European nation and homicide rates in cities comparable to South Africa.

Next.

Yea and in the UK the impression people for self defense and let the criminals go free.
post #116 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yea and in the UK the impression people for self defense and let the criminals go free.

Yet far fewer people die from violence. There are far fewer violent robberies, and I'm not sure about this, but I suspect fewer robberies in general.

So sounds like the UK system has better results.

If you'd stop whining, 'But that's not FAIR!!!' and start paying attention to what actually works, we might actually see some progress here.
post #117 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yet far fewer people die from violence. There are far fewer violent robberies, and I'm not sure about this, but I suspect fewer robberies in general.

So sounds like the UK system has better results.

If you'd stop whining, 'But that's not FAIR!!!' and start paying attention to what actually works, we might actually see some progress here.

Results? If the inputs were the same you might have a point.
post #118 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This.

Guns don't solve any of society's problems, and to believe so is excessively deluded.

Yay! More AD Homs and calling people mentally ill!!!
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #119 of 122
Thread Starter 
"Nearly half of the nation’s 16,400 murder victims in 2005 were black, and the number of black men who were slain is on the rise.

Black people represented an estimated 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2005, the latest data available, but were the victims of 49 percent of all murders and 15 percent of rapes, assaults and other nonfatal violent crimes nationwide.

Most of the black murder victims — 93 percent — were killed by other black people, the study found. About 85 percent of white victims were slain by other white people.

National Urban League President Marc Morial, a former mayor of New Orleans, said the data reflect a trend that cannot be reversed by law enforcement alone. It will require changes in public education and a revival of federal summer jobs programs for economically disadvantaged young people, he said.

“The mixture of illegal drugs, easy access to handguns, and young men who feel locked out of economic opportunity is what these statistics reflect,” Morial said."
~ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20203888.../#.TkwHiq7X9NU
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #120 of 122
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