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German court bars Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 from sale in Europe in Apple suit - Page 2

post #41 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

That was the trigger, but not what it's about anymore. At this point it's just a lot inchoate anger aided and abetted by anarchy with a small A.

That's why I mentioned it's a poor area. Whenever something like this happens in poor areas, whether correct or not, it's felt the police don't care, and rioting happens. You're right that it then takes on a greater level of discontentment.
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post #42 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

You know what the remote sucks, the configuration menu sucks, why can't these boneheads design a half decent interface.

I have a Sammy HDTV too and I agree. The TV itself is okay, but the remote and UI are uninspired and clunky. I guess it's just that TV makers have a hardware mindset. The software and user control side is just a means to an end. Ease of use and innovation are in Apple's DNA.
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post #43 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It certainly is a key victory. Whether it will stand in the next 4 weeks is a different question. But the fact that this happened at all is significant. I was surprised.

Along with the decision in Australia, another temporary one, of course, this will influence the ITc here, as these decisions always do.

Well, for apple it would be better that the ITC does not consider the "Einstweilige Verfügung" issued by a regional court in germany. Those are handing them out freely anyway.
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post #44 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by massconn72 View Post

I would just love to be a fly on the wall at the next Samsung board meeting. They are all probably going to kill themselves. Serves them right...

If they do, I wonder how. Seppuku never really caught on in Korea.

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post #45 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:45am
I'm just cracking up, laughing hysterically at how Samsung got into this mess. First Australia, now Europe. Even better yet will be the phantards soiling their pants, and figuring out a way to spin this story that Apple is evil and Samsung is in the right.

"WTF?? How man ways can one make a rectangular tablet??"

Answer: There were plenty of ways for the past 20+ years before Apple came into the market. Suddenly the only way is the way Apple does it??

Say "buh-bye" Samsung!
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post #46 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidhero View Post

Well, for apple it would be better that the ITC does not consider the "Einstweilige Verfügung" issued by a regional court in germany. Those are handing them out freely anyway.

It depends. No one expects Apple to win everything, and some losses are more important than others.
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post #47 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


About 20 mins ago AAPL passed XOM's market cap to become the world's largest company by that measure -- we'll have to wait and see where the market closes, though!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #48 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:53am
Here's the Fosspatents take on the issue:

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...ranted-by.html
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post #49 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

About 20 mins ago AAPL passed XOM's market cap to become the world's largest company by that measure -- we'll have to wait and see where the market closes, though!

Too bad this is in a dropping market rather than in a rising one. Takes some of the glow off.
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post #50 of 180
8/9/11 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I'm just cracking up, laughing hysterically at how Samsung got into this mess. First Australia, now Europe. Even better yet will be the phantards soiling their pants, and figuring out a way to spin this story that Apple is evil and Samsung is in the right.

"WTF?? How man ways can one make a rectangular tablet??"

Answer: There were plenty of ways for the past 20+ years before Apple came into the market. Suddenly the only way is the way Apple does it??

Say "buh-bye" Samsung!

I wouldn't be surprised if fandroids are talking about how Apple is abusing the legal system to squelch innovation/competition and bla bla bla...

Thing is, the original iPad was what, 7-8 years in development? So, of course Apple's gonna fight to defend their investment (time/money/sweat/tears) against those who think they can just crank something out in a year or two and ride the coattails of Apple's innovation.
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post #51 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's a poor area, not too far from where my daughters' dorm is. The police shot someone, who died, and that's what the riots are about, so it isn't a a funny thing.

We Brits tend to find dark humour in things like this (see Cloudgazers comment), so please excuse me if I make my own decisions of what I want to joke about independent of your opinions.

For clarity, the police shot a man who pulled a gun on them, and he died.
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post #52 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Obviously, either the quality of their work has changed or Apple's components for the MBA and others - being largely from Samsung - are crap.

Which do you suppose it is?

Since I was talking about Samsung's consumer electronics then I'm not sure. Maybe its consumer goods are still shit but they are able to build very good electronic components for others.

Which do you suppose it is?
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post #53 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I was gonna make a flip comment about this, but it turns out it's serious business. My local burrito place is closed early, my local sushi place is closed early even my local pizza place closed early. I may have to cook!

I'm shocked, shocked and appalled.

And hungry.
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post #54 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:25pm
US based Apple still not treated fairly in USA.. Shame ITC team, US
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post #55 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post

And hungry.

Fortunately M&S still preserve the Blitz spirit - presumably because they're confident that even amidst rioting no true Englishman would raise a brick to an M&S window.
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post #56 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Back in the eighties, early nineties, Samsung products were so bad that they were almost at the Goldstar level. I've never been able to look at their products since that time.

How old are you?
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post #57 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Too bad this is in a dropping market rather than in a rising one. Takes some of the glow off.

It might take the glow off but it does reflect well on Apple. Since tech stocks traditionally rise and fall at excess in accordance with the markets this is more likely to hold and increase its distance quickly once the markets rebound.
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post #58 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:41pm
Google & Samsung: Patents? Patents? We don't need [to abide by] no stinkin' Patents...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #59 of 180
8/9/11 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by starnyc View Post

I just spent an hour testing out the Galaxy 10.1 for a client project.

If you like smooth scrolling, extended battery life and the ability to read the NY times in portrait mode, get the iPad.

If you want an expensive iPad copy with a jerky, redundant interface, Europeans will have to travel to the US.

The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is a blatantly bad copy of the iPad. If I had never seen the iPad before I would think that the 10.1 is an amazing device with a horribly confusing interface. If you are not tech savvy, the Galaxy tab is not user friendly and you will need help. lame.

I just love how the bottom icon tray superimposes itself over the home screen apps. I love how there are 3 other ways to get to some variation of an app launcher. It is everything they teach you not to do in human factor training.

The way that the scrolling lists bounce at the bottom and the multitouch scrolling will need to be removed from android. I had not expected the copying to be so blatant down to fit and finish details.

I've been using the Xoom a lot lately (testing it out etc.), and you could simply replace "Galaxy Tab" with "Xoom" in this post and it would work as a review of that.
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post #60 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:00pm
deleted
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #61 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by starnyc View Post

I just spent an hour testing out the Galaxy 10.1 for a client project.

If you like smooth scrolling, extended battery life and the ability to read the NY times in portrait mode, get the iPad.

If you want an expensive iPad copy with a jerky, redundant interface, Europeans will have to travel to the US.

The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is a blatantly bad copy of the iPad. If I had never seen the iPad before I would think that the 10.1 is an amazing device with a horribly confusing interface. If you are not tech savvy, the Galaxy tab is not user friendly and you will need help. lame.

I just love how the bottom icon tray superimposes itself over the home screen apps. I love how there are 3 other ways to get to some variation of an app launcher. It is everything they teach you not to do in human factor training.

The way that the scrolling lists bounce at the bottom and the multitouch scrolling will need to be removed from android. I had not expected the copying to be so blatant down to fit and finish details.

Thanks for sharing that.
The thing that I don't understand is why seemingly everyone in the tech blogosphere assumes that Android will beat iPad in the tablet race. Was that just Apple haters projecting their hopes and dreams of a non-Apple future, like Michael Dell? Why is everyone so bullish on Android tablets? None have executed as well as iPad. Recall that before the iPad shipped, a lot of people thought the iPad would FAIL MISERABLY. Not me, but I knew a lot of people who dismissed it as a "giant iPod Touch". Why the optimism about Android? I mean, while they're at it, why not be optimistic about the RIM Playbook too? Or the HP TouchPad?
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post #62 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

How old are you?

The Grand Canyon was just a gully when I was born.
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post #63 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:12pm
Samsung is extremely huge, they are in everything, hospitals, heavy machinery, nuclear power, etc. How important is the Galaxy Tab to their bottom-line?

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post #64 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Ah, the meme that wouldn't die, in spite of its self-evident silliness:

Lets be serious about these Android return rates
http://beust.com/weblog/2011/07/26/l...-return-rates/

Android Returns Can't Be 30-40%
http://www.businessinsider.com/andro...e-30-40-2011-7

The Ridiculous Myth Of Android Return Rates
http://thehiphopdemocrat.com/2011/07...-return-rates/

40% of Android phones are returned? Absolutely ridiculous
http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/28/40-of-...ly-ridiculous/

Android phone return rate rumor started by Apple fanboys
http://www.examiner.com/gadgets-in-l...-apple-fanboys

Motorola DROID 2 has lowest smartphone return rate on Verizon Wireless?
http://www.bgr.com/2010/09/04/motoro...+Genius+Report

A single unnamed source says you eat kittens.

lulz

Okay... so what you are trying to tell us is that you don't have any hard evidence to prove otherwise.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #65 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

Samsung is extremely huge, they are in everything, hospitals, heavy machinery, nuclear power, etc. How important is the Galaxy Tab to their bottom-line?

Not huge but it's a bit of a black eye for some of it's other businesses. Besides possibly losing Apple as a components buyer, Samsung could end up losing a lot of other business in that sector. Who wants to buy parts from a company who will probably copy your product and sell it for less?
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post #66 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

That was the trigger, but not what it's about anymore. At this point it's just a lot inchoate anger aided and abetted by anarchy with a small A.

I agree with the exception of I wouldn't even say they are up to the "small a" level. Ideology has pretty much left the stage at this point. It's more just plain thuggery, greed and opportunism now.

What a shame though. There are buildings and businesses that have been in almost continuous operation since the 1860's, (that escaped the bombing of London in WWII), that have now been burned to the ground and completely destroyed just because some ignorant thugs had too much beer and wanted to destroy something.

America next.
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post #67 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:25pm
How the hell can a regional court ban something in the whole union? Certainly brits go crazy if someone infringed on their sovereignty this way.
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post #68 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:31pm
I thought all of this Look and Feel stuff was settled years ago as un-suportable in court. Unless some one copied a technical design, copyright or software it was not considered a violation....

What has changed recently to allow this?
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post #69 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

How the hell can a regional court ban something in the whole union? Certainly brits go crazy if someone infringed on their sovereignty this way.

Ah but that's half of Britains problem isn't it? They go crazy even over *imagined* infringements on their sovereignty. They still believe all that guff about the Empire.
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post #70 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I thought all of this Look and Feel stuff was settled years ago as un-suportable in court. Unless some one copied a technical design, copyright or software it was not considered a violation....

What has changed recently to allow this?

Trade dress has never been invalidated in court as a means to seek damage. It insures that a company selling salt can't use packaging that's the same as Morton's except the raincoat is red and not yellow.
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post #71 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

How the hell can a regional court ban something in the whole union? Certainly brits go crazy if someone infringed on their sovereignty this way.

We don't tend to freak out about EU IP laws, or safety legislation. We save our ire for things like the Euro - which as it turns out was a pretty smart thing to avoid. We're also dead set against tax harmonization and some criminal justice initiatives, but then we have a totally different legal system to the rest of europe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Ah but that's half of Britains problem isn't it? They go crazy even over *imagined* infringements on their sovereignty. They still believe all that guff about the Empire.

From an american, that's hilariously funny. Aren't you lot the ones who worry that the UN is controlling the world with some sort of conspiracy involving black helicopters?
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post #72 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Trade dress has never been invalidated in court as a means to seek damage. It insures that a company selling salt can't use packaging that's the same as Morton's except the raincoat is red and not yellow.


I understand trademarking, but this is a patent issue....


I know Apple wants to halt all competition in the tablet market, but I worry about what effect this will have on their product. No viable competition usually means no good innovations. For example do you think Apple would be dramatically improving it's notification system ( copying Android who copied WebOS ) if there was no competition?
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post #73 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Trade dress has never been invalidated in court as a means to seek damage. It insures that a company selling salt can't use packaging that's the same as Morton's except the raincoat is red and not yellow.

There are certainly ... grains of truth in that.
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post #74 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I understand trademarking, but this is a patent issue....


I know Apple wants to halt all competition in the tablet market, but I worry about what effect this will have on their product. No viable competition usually means no good innovations. For example do you think Apple would be dramatically improving it's notification system ( copying Android who copied WebOS ) if there was no competition?

It's a design patent, actually a Community Design but basically the same thing. It covers only the non-functional elements of the design. Samsung could have easily made a product that didn't look like an iPad and avoided this but they decided not to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_design

'a Community design includes any design which does not produce a different overall impression on an informed user, taking the degree of freedom of the designer into consideration.'
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post #75 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

We save our ire for things like the Euro - which as it turns out was a pretty smart thing to avoid.

That depends greatly on time frame, doesn't it?
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post #76 of 180
8/9/11 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

That depends greatly on time frame, doesn't it?

Not really. The Greeks, Italians, Spanish & Irish are discovering what sensible economists have been saying for years. The EU isn't an optimal currency area and is unlikely ever to be an optimal currency area. All they've accomplished is to limit their options for handling their debt problems.
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post #77 of 180
8/9/11 at 2:06pm
Apple are now officially in the same league as Lodsys...pathetic.
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post #78 of 180
8/9/11 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I thought all of this Look and Feel stuff was settled years ago as un-suportable in court. Unless some one copied a technical design, copyright or software it was not considered a violation....

I'm pretty sure this is just a popular misconception.

Apple famously brought a look and feel lawsuit against Windows and lost. Up until fairly recently, "the story" was that they lost because such lawsuits are unenforceable. In fact they lost for completely different reasons. Also there is a difference between "trade dress" lawsuits and "look and feel" which is not really a legal term as far as I'm aware.
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post #79 of 180
8/9/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Apple are now officially in the same league as Lodsys...pathetic.

Seriously? You don't see a difference between enforcing a legal patent on something you invented or designed and being a patent troll? I feel sorry for you and whomever tried to educate you as a child, because they seemingly failed.
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post #80 of 180
8/9/11 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Apple are now officially in the same league as Lodsys...pathetic.

Yeah, it's soooo the same. Some huge company bigger than Samsung licensed a functional patent from Apple and allowed Samsung to use said patent. Then big, bad Apple came swooping in to sue Samsung (a very small, fledgling manufacturer) for additional fees even though it was paid by the unnamed, huge corporation. The similarities are uncanny.
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