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iPad 2 display problems prompt Apple to cut orders from LG

post #1 of 57
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LG Display has reportedly lost its status as the leading iPad 2 display maker after recent LCD shipments were said to have been plagued by quality issues, prompting Apple to turn instead to Samsung.

Citing industry sources, DigiTimes reported Wednesday that LG, the largest panel supplier for the iPad 2, recently had production of its LCD displays with in-plane switching disrupted by issues. As a result, Apple has allegedly been forced to suspend new orders from LG, turning instead to competitors Samsung and CMI.

"LGD's 9.7-inch panels for the iPad 2 reportedly failed to pass drop tests, during which their backlight units (BLUs) failed, the sources said, adding the panels' yield rates were unable to meet Apple's requirement," the report said.

LG is said to have shipped between 2.5 million and 2.6 million 9.7-inch panels in July, falling short of its goal of 4 million units per month. While LG has struggled, Samsung is said to have doubled its production goals, creating 2 million iPad 2 panels in July.

But Samsung is a primary competitor of Apple, and the two companies are engaged in a bitter legal battle, which sources said make the company a less-than-ideal choice for Apple. In addition, while CMI's affiliate status with manufacturer Foxconn makes it a favorable choice for Apple, its monthly goal of 9.7-inch iPad 2 displays is just 1 million.



In its last quarter, Apple shipped a record 9.25 million iPads, as the company apparently resolved supply constraints that hampered iPad 2 availability immediately after launch. In the previous quarter, the company sold 4.65 million iPads, as the company was plagued by what Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook called "the mother of all backlogs."

Given supply constraints faced by Apple in the past, the company may be eager to embrace LG once again if the apparent LCD quality issues can be addressed. Sources told DigiTimes that LG could regain its position as the leading panel supplier for the iPad 2, but only if problems with its displays can be fixed quickly.
post #2 of 57
Argh... Still gotta swap my iPad 2 because of the light bleed issue from the US launch batch thanks to LG. Soon... It's been hard to go a few days without at least looking at my precioussss
post #3 of 57
This could have implications for the oft-rumoured HD iPad. The assumption has been that LG would be the main supplier for HiDPI panels, but this second big quality problem with the iPad-2 must be causing Apple concerns.

Samsung's demonstrated HiDPI tablet panel is RGBW pentile, so unlikely to be adopted by Apple.
post #4 of 57
LG panel on new MBA also plagued with flickering issue.
post #5 of 57
Right. A day after bad news of injunction in Europe, a story is created to put samsung in a good light.

Baloney.
post #6 of 57
LG needs to spend the money so they can do a better job. Quit trying to maximize profits by cutting back on quality.
post #7 of 57
Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.
post #8 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

Maybe Samsung would be better off supplying Apple.
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post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

Unfortunately for Samsung, they have no other customer with the same supply demands as Apple. Thus, they would lose revenue and take a hit by having excess manufacturing capacity. Those factories are a huge capital investment, you don't want them sitting around idle. Samsung would take major losses if their display business fell off a cliff.

If Samsung said "eff you" to everyone who has rankled their hide, they'd have no one to do business with.

But sure, they should listen to you, not me. Because the realities of international supply chain economics don't really exist in your dreamworld.
post #10 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

You sound personally invested. Does someone in your family own Samsung? Was Samsung your ex who's runoff with another guy? WTF? Spite? It's business.
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post #11 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

Very well put. Because we all know Apple can do no wrong ...

Samsung to Apple "Who loves ya baby?"
post #12 of 57
Apple is sitting on a fortune in cash,why don't they build a factory to build their own panels...??
post #13 of 57
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post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

And now we know why you're not head of a large corporation.
Its all business, dude. They know that.
post #15 of 57
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post #16 of 57
Damn, I didn't think people would take my comment seriously. Of course I know it's business.
post #17 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius_1 View Post

Apple is sitting on a fortune in cash,why don't they build a factory to build their own panels...??

Lots of reasons but you could start with the face that they have absolutely no experience at it.
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius_1 View Post

Apple is sitting on a fortune in cash,why don't they build a factory to build their own panels...??

Patent problems.

post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius_1 View Post

Apple is sitting on a fortune in cash,why don't they build a factory to build their own panels...??

Or better yet, invest in other companies to help them get up to speed to be suppliers. Preferably in other parts of the world (Brazil?) to help insulate Apple from supply disruptions (political, natural disasters, legal, etc).
post #20 of 57
.....
post #21 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

That is what I would do if I was Samsung.... Playing hardball can work both ways....
post #22 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius_1 View Post

Apple is sitting on a fortune in cash,why don't they build a factory to build their own panels...??

It takes a long time to get this type of Equipment up and running efficiently. Apple has the cash, but I doubt has the technical expertise to make these flat panels in a reasonable time frame. You have to remember that Apple does not make much of anything any more. It is all made over seas.....

Setting up and running manufacturing is quite different from product design....
post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Maybe Samsung would be better off supplying Apple.

I am certain supplying Apple makes a lot more money for Samsung then phones or tablets, so you are likely correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

That is what I would do if I was Samsung.... Playing hardball can work both ways....

That is not playing hard ball. That is cutting off your face to spite your nose.
post #24 of 57
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post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Argh... Still gotta swap my iPad 2 because of the light bleed issue from the US launch batch thanks to LG.

I am curious, how did you determine it was an LG panel?

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post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius_1 View Post

Apple is sitting on a fortune in cash,why don't they build a factory to build their own panels...??

Manufacturing is not one of Apple's core competencies. Plus, it's a low-margin business.

One of the key reasons to Apple's profitability today was the move to get out of manufacturing and warehousing. Apple's prowess is in the hardware design as well as writing software (the operating systems, related applications) and creating content distribution services (iTunes and App Store).

In the same way, Apple doesn't have their own janitors and cafeteria cooks. They contract out services that they think other people can do better.

The genius behind Apple's supply chain management mastery is COO Tim Cook. He is a major reason why Apple is threatening to topple Exxon-Mobil as the most valuable company in the world (in terms of market capitalization).
post #27 of 57
It seems rather obvious that Apple most likely is working behind the scenes with other material science manufacturing firms to expand their capacities and ditch one or both of these market dominant suppliers.

Samsung and LG plead guilty to collusion in flat panel pricing. You'll see more players enter the market because the $800+ million fine has done nothing to curb their control over the market.
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Manufacturing is not one of Apple's core competencies. Plus, it's a low-margin business.

One of the key reasons to Apple's profitability today was the move to get out of manufacturing and warehousing. Apple's prowess is in the hardware design as well as writing software (the operating systems, related applications) and creating content distribution services (iTunes and App Store).

In the same way, Apple doesn't have their own janitors and cafeteria cooks. They contract out services that they think other people can do better.

The genius behind Apple's supply chain management mastery is COO Tim Cook. He is a major reason why Apple is threatening to topple Exxon-Mobil as the most valuable company in the world (in terms of market capitalization).

Apple has decades of experience in manufacturing. They continue to invest in R&D regarding milling processes, mold injection design, etc. It's the assembly part they see as low margin and contract that out.
post #29 of 57
Apple is reportedly investing in Sharp factories. I am a fan of Sharp panels. That will be good for Apple if the price is competitive.
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Or better yet, invest in other companies to help them get up to speed to be suppliers. Preferably in other parts of the world (Brazil?) to help insulate Apple from supply disruptions (political, natural disasters, legal, etc).

what Apple has been doing for sometime. How do you think they get such good deals on components? They partner with fabricators to get fab lines up and running producing their parts exclusively for a contracted period of time, after which the fab get to produce to other interests, but Apple is a priority customer. There's reason they keep piling up cash - it let's you do all kinds of innovative and very smart things...
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post #31 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Apple has decades of experience in manufacturing. They continue to invest in R&D regarding milling processes, mold injection design, etc. It's the assembly part they see as low margin and contract that out.

There's another dimension. Investing in technology development is a completely different animal than spending to build a processing facility. What happens when a new display technology or another product game-changer comes along and then Apple is stuck with a manufacturing white elephant that can't be converted or upgraded? All we have to do today is look at the sad experience of Sony - stuck with television manufacturing capacity as marketplace prices for flat-screen units fell off a cliff. They've been shutting down manufacturing worldwide in a desperate rush to shed the dead weight.

Far better to own the technology and pay someone else to manufacture. Then ditch the process when it goes obsolete.

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post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Maybe. But imagine the impact if Samsung said "no". In the short term it could provide leverage on Apple's lawsuits against them, and in the long term could provide many benefits....

But in the long term it would mean that every customer of Samsung that was also a competitor would know that they couldn't rely on Samsung as a supplier if they came into conflict on some other matter. Given that almost all of Samsung's customers are competitors, that would be very very bad for Samsung.
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

That is what I would do if I was Samsung.... Playing hardball can work both ways....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

But in the long term it would mean that every customer of Samsung that was also a competitor would know that they couldn't rely on Samsung as a supplier if they came into conflict on some other matter. Given that almost all of Samsung's customers are competitors, that would be very very bad for Samsung.

Obviously, it would be insanely stupid for Samsung to do that. As you point out, every single one of their other customers would be looking for a new supplier.

Then there's the matter of agreements. Apple undoubtedly has a supply agreement in place with Samsung. You don't simply walk away from agreements because you're upset that someone won't let you steal their technology.

Then, add in a few restraint of trade issues. If Samsung arbitrarily and capriciously stops supply Apple a product in order to try to force Apple to stop enforcing it's intellectual property, that opens entirely new grounds for damages for Apple.

Finally, there's the little matter of money. Apple currently buys something like $8,000,000,000 worth of product from Apple. Who in their right mind would ever think Samsung would give up $8,000,000,000 in revenue in order to sell the $2,000 or so worth of tablets they've sold so far?
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post #34 of 57
Suppliers seem to be having a devil of a time with Apple.
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Unless there is a contract stating that Samsung has to provide panels for X amount of time, Samsung should tell Apple go to hell just for spite. You block our stuff in other countries, we'll stop making panels for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Maybe Samsung would be better off supplying Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Unfortunately for Samsung, they have no other customer with the same supply demands as Apple. Thus, they would lose revenue and take a hit by having excess manufacturing capacity. Those factories are a huge capital investment, you don't want them sitting around idle. Samsung would take major losses if their display business fell off a cliff.

If Samsung said "eff you" to everyone who has rankled their hide, they'd have no one to do business with.

But sure, they should listen to you, not me. Because the realities of international supply chain economics don't really exist in your dreamworld.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

You sound personally invested. Does someone in your family own Samsung? Was Samsung your ex who's runoff with another guy? WTF? Spite? It's business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

And now we know why you're not head of a large corporation.
Its all business, dude. They know that.

Furthermore, most large companies, especially conglomerates, operate in a very decentralized way. That's why you have one division suing Apple and another doing big business with them. I've worked for three very large companies and my experience is that each business unit does exactly what's best for them because each has their own P&L. Only occassionally does a directive come from the top overriding those decisions. I've almost always found it harder to deal with internal business units than external companies. I walked into a meeting once to discuss buying product from another business unit for distribution through our own ecommerce site and the first thing they said to me was, "we're not giving you any discount whatsoever." We wound up buying our own product from a third-party distributor because it was less expensive than buying directly from our own business unit. (How's that for synergy?)

Apple's buying what - 40 million panels a year? No one is going to turn that business down, especially in today's poor business climate.
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Obviously, it would be insanely stupid for Samsung to do that. As you point out, every single one of their other customers would be looking for a new supplier.

Then there's the matter of agreements. Apple undoubtedly has a supply agreement in place with Samsung. You don't simply walk away from agreements because you're upset that someone won't let you steal their technology.

Then, add in a few restraint of trade issues. If Samsung arbitrarily and capriciously stops supply Apple a product in order to try to force Apple to stop enforcing it's intellectual property, that opens entirely new grounds for damages for Apple.

Finally, there's the little matter of money. Apple currently buys something like $8,000,000,000 worth of product from Apple. Who in their right mind would ever think Samsung would give up $8,000,000,000 in revenue in order to sell the $2,000 or so worth of tablets they've sold so far?


I completely disagree. Apple pays such low margins to it's suppliers that a short shutdown would hurt apple far more than Samsung. It is almost identical to a strike by employees....

Also, Samsung could claim that it is halting production sent to apple because it is reviewing all manufactured components to make sure it does not use any competing components in it's products....This will provide the necessary legal cover of the move.

Some times it is necessary to stand up to a bully. I see Apple becoming more and more of a bully every day... I do not think these look and feel patents are valid and will eventally be throw out of court...

Heck Samsung was not even notified of the claim against them and was not even allowed to offer a defense... It sound like the judicial part of the German government should be closely watching this judge's bank account....
post #37 of 57
oooooo....already dropped my new mba...better not do it again, then.....
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post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Lots of reasons but you could start with the face that they have absolutely no experience at it.

The lack of experience is actually relatively minor. It is the lack of IP and the need to develop new technology that doesn't infringe that is the problem. The only way for Apple to effectively DIY LCD screens would be to buy a competitive package of technologies from another company.
post #39 of 57
How do you know what margins Apple pays? Further, Apple pays cash up front, which is why Apple is an attractive customer.

Those moves by Samsung would not only be a breach of contract, but also anti-competitive. Moreover, Samsung would just be shooting itself in the foot in the long term as Apple would quickly move to remove Samsung from the supply chain. Samsung's LCD business is hurting.

I am confused how Apple is a bully. Most of Samsung's Smart Phones and Tablets look just like Apple products right down to packaging. Apple spent the money to develop those ideas. It costs very little to copy. Why should Apple subsidize Samsung's design?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I completely disagree. Apple pays such low margins to it's suppliers that a short shutdown would hurt apple far more than Samsung. It is almost identical to a strike by employees....

Also, Samsung could claim that it is halting production sent to apple because it is reviewing all manufactured components to make sure it does not use any competing components in it's products....This will provide the necessary legal cover of the move.

Some times it is necessary to stand up to a bully. I see Apple becoming more and more of a bully every day... I do not think these look and feel patents are valid and will eventally be throw out of court...

Heck Samsung was not even notified of the claim against them and was not even allowed to offer a defense... It sound like the judicial part of the German government should be closely watching this judge's bank account....
post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I completely disagree. Apple pays such low margins to it's suppliers that a short shutdown would hurt apple far more than Samsung. It is almost identical to a strike by employees....

Also, Samsung could claim that it is halting production sent to apple because it is reviewing all manufactured components to make sure it does not use any competing components in it's products....This will provide the necessary legal cover of the move.

Some times it is necessary to stand up to a bully. I see Apple becoming more and more of a bully every day... I do not think these look and feel patents are valid and will eventally be throw out of court...

Heck Samsung was not even notified of the claim against them and was not even allowed to offer a defense... It sound like the judicial part of the German government should be closely watching this judge's bank account....

It never ceases to amaze me how people with no concept of either business or the law insist on blathering their ignorance publicly on forums like this.

I'd suggest that you start by getting yourself an education in the relevant topics and THEN try to discuss them rather than discussing them with nothing behind you but pure ignorance.
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