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Investors pushing Nintendo to support Apple's iPhone, iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I really have to ask...
Exactly WHO would want a 'Playstation Phone' or 'Wii Phone'?

Want to point me to the massive number of parents who are going to sign up little Timmy for a 2 year phone contract in order to let him play crappy games?

Nah, it's called the iPod touch. Apple sells two of them for every three iPhones.

The demographic for the iPod touch is considerably younger, the 13-24 age bracket whereas the iPhone is the lucrative 25-49 age bracket. Various surveys have shown that iPod touch users download far more apps (and more games) than iPhone owners. As Steve Jobs mentioned, the iPod touch is training wheels for the iPhone.

Holiday quarter sales of the iPod product line are about twice the sales as the other three non-holiday quarters. Apple claims the iPod touch is now the top selling device in the iPod family. This is basically the stocking stuffer parents are giving to their kids each year.
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

I can see nintendo releasing a new ip or two on the iPhone/ipod touch that caters directly to having no buttons BUT I do not see mario or any of those ups on the systems because of the lack of buttons.

IF the next iPhone has a directional pad at least then i can see it but only new ups i can see.

Why do people believe gaming on the iPhone require no buttons? It would be no trick to a fold out button controller for the iPhone or iPod touch.
post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Except people who use dedicated games machines play a lot more games (and spend a lot more money on gaming) than the average person. Nintendo might not be addressing the majority of gamers but they are addressing the most valuable gamers.

People buy Nintendo hardware because of Mario and other Nintendo games. By releasing their exclusive titles on other platforms they would be helping to kill their own platforms which would do far more damage to Nintendo's profits than they could hope to gain from releasing an iOS titles.

I am not sure that is true. I spend more time playing games on my phone then I did with my PSP or gameboy, gameboy advanced, or DS. Do you have some credible study that supports your position?

Nintendo is losing money after declines in yoy profits for four straight quarters. Their forecasting seems to predict a loss for this quarter too. There is no profit in Nintendo right now.
post #44 of 75
dead
nintendoi is dead
my sons want th e iPads no matter what

7 and 10 yrs old
nintendio is dead

apple is rocking
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #45 of 75
"One fund manager believes Apple should abandon its strategy of only releasing titles for its own hardware, and support other platforms, including the iPhone, iPad . . ."

I like that AI corrects their typos. But am annoyed that they make their corrections with out without leaving a hint that they were wrong in the first place. What is this the Soviet Tass News Agency? Rupert Murdock's Wall Street Journal?

Seriously though, how hard can it be to strikeout unwanted text (leaving it legible) and making the correction properly?
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

The demographic for the iPod touch is considerably younger, the 13-24 age bracket whereas the iPhone is the lucrative 25-49 age bracket. Various surveys have shown that iPod touch users download far more apps (and more games) than iPhone owners. As Steve Jobs mentioned, the iPod touch is training wheels for the iPhone.

They would sell far more if they would stop hobbling it (bluetooth, certain pieces of software, etc.) and give it a decent camera. Lots of folks would have a Virgin mobile phone with an affordable contract hiding in their briefcase and use their iPt to take calls and interact with the internet. Savings? about $1200 over the time of a 2 year contract.
post #47 of 75
More than old Nintendo titles that might be difficult to adapt to touch input, a niche of iPad game I see as still untapped is the conversion/port of some old turn-based early RPGs written for Win/Mac desktops.

Titles that come to mind are the Baulder's Gate series, and Fallout 1 & 2. Heck, even all the old map-based games like Warcraft I, II, and III, Age of Empires, StarCraft I, etc.

Those games would easily be adapted to touch input and have huge followings of nostalgic gamers that now have iPads, are chomping at the bit for "real" substantial games on the iOS platform, and would be willing to pony up ~$10/title.

From what I've seen, new titles developed for the iPad that try to fill this space, longer plot-based games, are severely lacking. I know I would love to play Fallout II all over again on the iPad.
post #48 of 75
I wish Apple can buy Nintendo. According to Japanese law I don't think you can buy a Japan bases company. But the question is can Apple buy the Nintendo Catalog of game franchisees.
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

They would sell far more if they would stop hobbling it (bluetooth, certain pieces of software, etc.) and give it a decent camera. Lots of folks would have a Virgin mobile phone with an affordable contract hiding in their briefcase and use their iPt to take calls and interact with the internet. Savings? about $1200 over the time of a 2 year contract.

Apple has to keep their costs down. If they start add a lot more components to the iPod touch, the cost will increase as well as the price.

The retail value of an iPhone is about $700 (many people pay this amount in countries where subsidized handsets and long-term contracts are not standard practice). Apple has been selling unsubsidized handsets in the US for a couple of years (it was not aggressively marketed), more recently they are unlocked as well.

Apple will likely improve the camera quality in future models, however it is doubtful that the iPod touch's images will ever match those of the iPhone because of size constraints (and Steve will not let the iPod touch get as thick as the iPhone).

I would love to see an iPod touch with 3G cellular data with an optional month-by-month plan like the iPad, however I am rather doubtful we will see something like this.
post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

The last two Zelda games on the DS were controlled mainly with a stylus. They'd work fine on an iPhone. Super Mario though, not so much.

Exactly, a stylus. Thumbs are not styluses and do not offer the same precision, and have a tendency to obscure most of the screen.
post #51 of 75
Not sure but I think Apple might phase out some of the iPOD models. But then again who knows.
post #52 of 75
I don't Super-Mario would do good in the touch controller option. But it would be great if Apple and Nintendo Joined forces to create a controller addon for the iphone and ipad. But there brings up the question can apple buy Nintendo's back catalog


Quote:
Originally Posted by KazKam View Post

More than old Nintendo titles that might be difficult to adapt to touch input, a niche of iPad game I see as still untapped is the conversion/port of some old turn-based early RPGs written for Win/Mac desktops.

Titles that come to mind are the Baulder's Gate series, and Fallout 1 & 2. Heck, even all the old map-based games like Warcraft I, II, and III, Age of Empires, StarCraft I, etc.

Those games would easily be adapted to touch input and have huge followings of nostalgic gamers that now have iPads, are chomping at the bit for "real" substantial games on the iOS platform, and would be willing to pony up ~$10/title.

From what I've seen, new titles developed for the iPad that try to fill this space, longer plot-based games, are severely lacking. I know I would love to play Fallout II all over again on the iPad.
post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

They would sell far more if they would stop hobbling it (bluetooth, certain pieces of software, etc.) and give it a decent camera. Lots of folks would have a Virgin mobile phone with an affordable contract hiding in their briefcase and use their iPt to take calls and interact with the internet. Savings? about $1200 over the time of a 2 year contract.

I couldn't agree more. Both my wife and I carry around both an iPt AND a TracFone. We'd love the integration of the devices the iPhone offers, but not for $1200-$2000 ($2400-$4000 for both of us) every two years.

I was so excited and ready to buy the 4th gen iPt when I heard it finally had a camera, then so disappointed when I found out it was a CrackerJack POS, so didn't upgrade. It still also needs GPS.

Crossing my finger for the 5th gen, but not holding my breath either.

Now if I could buy an non-contract iPhone direct from Apple and could use my TracFone card and IDK, an app, that would be ideal. I'd even pay the unsubsidized price for the iPhone. Not holding my breath for that option either.
post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

If *investors* (fund managers and individual investors alike) believe they are so wise in product management and strategic planning for a tech company, why don't quit their day job and put their money where their mouths are? What credibility do they think they have when they start *recommending* product strategies?

ummm, "investors" are quite literally putting their money where their mouths are. That's kind of what makes them investors...
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post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nintendo is identical to Apple.

They make great software to sell their custom hardware.

The best gaming franchises are Nintendo's, and they're (for the most part) created by one man, Shigeru Miyamoto (宮本 茂). Just like Steve and Apple.

Nintendo would do astonishingly well if they created iOS versions of all of their past games, much less created new ones for Apple hardware.

But they won't. They'll stick to their guns until bankruptcy and intellectual property divvying-up between remaining companies.

And I think that's what makes them just like Apple.

Actually I think Nintendo might more accurately be described as the OPPOSITE of Apple.

Apple write great software in order to sell their hardware. Their margins on hardware are legendary in the industry, whilst they virtually give away their software (iOS updates are free, OS X updates close to free at $29.99).

Nintendo on the other hand make hardware in order to sell their software. Although I don't have the numbers, it's widely acknowledged that games consoles are often sold at a loss to build an installed base, with all of the industry profits then coming from software (games titles) sales.
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post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by KazKam View Post

Now if I could buy an non-contract iPhone direct from Apple and could use my TracFone card and IDK, an app, that would be ideal. I'd even pay the unsubsidized price for the iPhone. Not holding my breath for that option either.

I'm hoping to do something similar with the iPhone 5.

I'd like to purchase it unlocked at the unsubsidized price (off-contract) and use my AT&T GoPhone SIM. I think my charges would average about $18 per month between voice, data, and a few texts. Apparently, the only thing that doesn't work is Visual Voicemail, however since I use Google Voice, I wouldn't be using AT&T's voicemail anyhow; same with SMS.

Over the course of two years, I think I would save about $400 annually versus the subsidized handset and the cheapest AT&T plan.
post #57 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

Actually I think Nintendo might more accurately be described as the OPPOSITE of Apple.

Apple write great software in order to sell their hardware. Their margins on hardware are legendary in the industry, whilst they virtually give away their software (iOS updates are free, OS X updates close to free at $29.99).

Nintendo on the other hand make hardware in order to sell their software. Although I don't have the numbers, it's widely acknowledged that games consoles are often sold at a loss to build an installed base, with all of the industry profits then coming from software (games titles) sales.

While I understand your point from a economic standpoint, I'm making the point that no one would've bought the Wii if the software had sucked. Remember all the naysayers prior to its launch? It was a Revolution (code name humor), sure, but it wouldn't have been if its games had sucked. Great games built with great care to utilize the hardware sells the hardware. It wouldn't have sold otherwise, much less become the most sold hardware of this generation.
post #58 of 75
Sony and Microsoft sold their hardware at a loss, but Nintendo never sold hardware at a loss (though the 3DS might be the exception). Nintendo makes money on everything.

The 3DS isn't doing well, but neither did the Gamecube. Back then, people cried gloom and doom for Nintendo and thought they should become a third party developer to Sony and Microsoft. Imagine if they did. The Wii wouldn't exist, and we all know how successful that's been for them.

Just as it would kill Apple to license OS X, it would kill Nintendo to replace their handheld business to make games exclusively for iPods, iPads, and iPhones. Yes, they'd attract more customers selling $1-10 games, but would the volume make up for 1) the revenue they get from their $40 games (and they rarely go down in price), 2) the money they make off the DS and accessories, 3) the money they make licensing third party games? I highly doubt it.

And if Nintendo made an iOS that required an accessory, they'd sell even less games than they would.

Just because the iOS market is a bigger market doesn't mean there's more money to be had from Nintendo or other game developers. With that logic, developers should focus on Android instead of iOS because it's growing in marketshare and that's more important than profit, right?
post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

If anybody has ever tried to play games like Madden on the iPad know that most gaming really does need a control stick and buttons. Madden with the PS3 control is great. The iPad, not so good. Even other games like Battlefield Bad Company 2 controlled horribly. Glad I only paid .99 for each or I'd consider them a rip-off. I may be in the minority, but I would rather play great games on dedicated machines than crappy games that are cheap. I also tried Street Fighter IV and ugh, still controls poorly.

... more rambling...

The iPad/iPod/iPhone are great for causal games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope but hardcore sports, FPS, TPS, and platformers are better left to systems that cater to them.

So you're comparing $.99 games to games you'd normally pay $50 for? Oh cry me a river when you're complaining that the quality isn't very good when the price differential is so very high that it takes a hit on software quality. If you'd be willing to pay closer to $10, $15 per game, then you might have something to complain about.
post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

"One fund manager believes Apple should abandon its strategy of only releasing titles for its own hardware, and support other platforms, including the iPhone, iPad . . ."

I like that AI corrects their typos. But am annoyed that they make their corrections with out without leaving a hint that they were wrong in the first place. What is this the Soviet Tass News Agency? Rupert Murdock's Wall Street Journal?

Seriously though, how hard can it be to strikeout unwanted text (leaving it legible) and making the correction properly?

C'mon. You can't fault them when they leave their typos up on the screen, and then correct it, and still lambast them anyway
post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

C'mon. You can't fault them when they leave their typos up on the screen, and then correct it, and still lambast them anyway

No, but that's not what I or they did.
They made the correction and left no trace of it, which is called revisionism (in some ways it's similar to how you purposely misrepresented the facts in your post.) As an oversight, it's far more sloppy than not proofreading the article in the first place. If intentional though, it's not merely sloppy, it's sneaky and unethical. In this case it's no big deal, but it still doesn't meet the minimum acceptable standard of journalistic practice.

AI shouldn't allow themselves to slide into the same bin with either Murdock, tabloids, or Stalin. Next thing you know they'll be purchasing stolen property, like Gizmodo!
post #62 of 75
iPad and iPod Touch are annihilating Nintendo's traditional audience. They are largely the same price but provide way more functionality and cheaper games.

On one hand I think it would make a lot of sense for nintendo to go in the app store, on the other hand I like the new developers like rovio and gameloft and don't want to see them stomped out in favor of some giant big name console publishers.
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post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

good shot dude
lol
apple should get mario and etc
CALL OF DUTY SELLS GREAT ON Apple plat forms
9

Yes I want Pokemanz and Zelda and Mario Kart on iOS because I'm sick of reading all the memes and jokes online and not knowing what they are all about!

MARIO KAAAAAAAARRRRTTTTT

Game exclusivity sucks
post #64 of 75
Loom for iPad. PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN LUCAS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KazKam View Post

More than old Nintendo titles that might be difficult to adapt to touch input, a niche of iPad game I see as still untapped is the conversion/port of some old turn-based early RPGs written for Win/Mac desktops.

Titles that come to mind are the Baulder's Gate series, and Fallout 1 & 2. Heck, even all the old map-based games like Warcraft I, II, and III, Age of Empires, StarCraft I, etc.

Those games would easily be adapted to touch input and have huge followings of nostalgic gamers that now have iPads, are chomping at the bit for "real" substantial games on the iOS platform, and would be willing to pony up ~$10/title.

From what I've seen, new titles developed for the iPad that try to fill this space, longer plot-based games, are severely lacking. I know I would love to play Fallout II all over again on the iPad.
post #65 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

iPad and iPod Touch are annihilating Nintendo's traditional audience. They are largely the same price but provide way more functionality and cheaper games.

On one hand I think it would make a lot of sense for nintendo to go in the app store, on the other hand I like the new developers like rovio and gameloft and don't want to see them stomped out in favor of some giant big name console publishers.

Rovio just got valued at $1 billion. They'll be fine. Nintendo and PlayStation titles coming to iPad will only fuel more iPad consumption and hence, more sales for all game developers. Throw in an A6 AppleTV as gaming console and iOS will become a must-develop-for platform. (Of course, needs a bit more improvement in control mechanisms, better graphics will be useful, etc. etc.)
post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post


Want to point me to the massive number of parents who are going to sign up little Timmy for a 2 year phone contract in order to let him play crappy games?

iPod touch. ipad. both of which could play the games, no required contracts for phone service

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post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

I don't believe Nintendo should be considering porting their current games to any outside device. They would need to sell 10 or 20 times as many games at the prices iOS users expect to pay to equal their current revenue. iOS users are certainly not going to pay $50 for a game.

I agree with this. The other thing to keep in mind is gaming development cycles.

Apple releases a new phone pretty much every year - but worse, almost discontinues hardware that's over 2 years old, which makes sense in some cases as the jump in performance is so high.

Nintendo's own hardware stays the same over 5-6 years so the gaming performance is guaranteed over that time.

Then we get to the App Store. With their own limited selection of titles, the titles can stand out. In a store with over 300,000 apps, people have to actively search for Nintendo's games to see them. The price issue would make it unworkable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

However, Nintendo has a large number of titles from its previous platforms that would sell well on iOS. That would seem to be a very lucrative move for them. I would be interested in a Mario 1,2, or 3 game on my iOS device.

There's only so many times you can play old games without getting bored with them. There will be new generations that haven't experienced the old games so some may take off again and I'm sure there are people who would love a multiplayer Mario Kart game but you can already play these old titles on iOS devices as well as PSone titles. Better controls per game would improve them but I would only see it as one of those moves that other developers make on the iOS platform, which is to have a presence but not really take it seriously.

This is also indicative of a bigger problem. The iOS platform should have its own franchises to help it stand alone as a gaming platform and not rely on Nintendo. Publishers tried to make titles like Rolando, Angry Birds, Doodle Jump and all manner of quirky apps out to be the defining apps for the platform but it just hasn't really taken hold - the good titles don't keep coming and any decent ones have no depth to the experience. To put it concisely:

iPhone games just aren't any fun.

This opinion will vary depending on what games you like but I don't think I've come across a single iOS title that I regard more enjoyable than even the weaker titles on 20-year-old gaming systems and it's not just the controls.
post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I would argue quite the opposite. Nintendo is primarily a software company. Their hardware is just a means of selling their software, not the other way around.

For example, look at the top 10 selling games on the Wii. 9 of them are from Nintendo and just one (the 10th!) is from another company.

It's clear that people buy Nintendo hardware primarily to play Nintendo games.

That is all true - and it works in the console market where games are $40 or so. You can sell the system itself at low margin, break-even, or even a loss if you sell enough games and accessories to make up for it. Essentially, if you sell 5 $40 games per console at 70% margin, that's $140 margin which you can add to your console margin to figure out the value of that customer.

It doesn't work so well when the games are $0.99. You have to sell a LOT of games to make it worthwhile to sell a $200 console at break-even or a loss.

The best scenario for Nintendo is probably to sell the games on iOS if they can find a way to use them to make their console more attractive. For example, if it can be demonstrated that game play is far more enjoyable on the large screen, then it's possible that the $0.99 (or even $4.99 or $9.99) sale might get people interested in the game and encourage them to buy a console later. That would be the biggest potential win for Nintendo. Whether they could pull it off, is another matter.

My daughter would by SuperMario for her iPod Touch. But she almost never plays on the Wii any more, so I'm not sure the strategy would ever work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I think Nintendo would be a fantastic purchase for someone like Apple. If they started pumping out games targeted toward iOS and an Apple console it would be a very very big deal.

Why would Apple do that?

First, the games are already being targeted at iOS and driving customers to iOS.

Second, if Apple buys them, they instantly become a competitor to their game developers - and could cause some of them to lose interest.
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post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Second, if Apple buys them, they instantly become a competitor to their game developers - and could cause some of them to lose interest.

Normally I'd say that's a good argument but in the case of games it doesn't seem to apply. Pretty much every major games platform is owned or was owned by a firm that either develops games or at the very least publishes them.

Game developers are used to competing with the platform owner.
post #70 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

I don't believe Nintendo should be considering porting their current games to any outside device. They would need to sell 10 or 20 times as many games at the prices iOS users expect to pay to equal their current revenue. iOS users are certainly not going to pay $50 for a game.

However, Nintendo has a large number of titles from its previous platforms that would sell well on iOS. That would seem to be a very lucrative move for them. I would be interested in a Mario 1,2, or 3 game on my iOS device.

This is what I'm thinking. releasing only the classics (arcade too) on other devices it adds value to their nintendo only new releases and could make them some big money on old titles. A priprority controller for iOS would also be a great move.
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

the way I see it, this is terrible advice. Nintendo is at heart a hardware company -- they make game consoles. If they started porting their most valuable property to other consoles, it would be the end of their own,

Perhaps not. These days their games are mostly about 3d, first person stuff. THey could keep that on their own machines due to the lack of power in the iPad etc and just port over the very early games like SM 1 and 2 without devaluing their current hardware.

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post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiJoe View Post

This is what I'm thinking. releasing only the classics (arcade too) on other devices it adds value to their nintendo only new releases and could make them some big money on old titles. A priprority controller for iOS would also be a great move.

I think the main flaw when it comes to the controls is just that you can't do two gestures at once. If you look at a standard controller, your two thumbs control 10 buttons and two analog sticks. The advantage they have is the shoulder buttons as you can have 4 fingers on those all the time.

All the iPhone really needs is shoulder buttons.

Trouble is, how to implement them on a device with no fixed orientation. If the back of the phone was touch-sensitive, it might work but I think they could just make the edge touch-sensitive like this:



I don't think it matters if it only works in one direction - although they have to take account of the earphone location.

This kind of basic development gives you way more control over games. It can be a capacitive metal band. In a first person shooter, it gets mapped to fire so you can move with the left thumb, aim with the right thumb and fire with the first finger. Platformers can use it to jump and fire so you get the timing right.
post #73 of 75
In my opinion it's a great step going inside the iPhone games industry , Good money.
post #74 of 75
Nintendo has some options, they could partner with Apple to add exclusive interactivity between iOS devices and their hardware (ie iPhone/iTouch controller, viewer, interconnectivity for messaging, camera, accelerometer, etc...), make an agreement to provide iTunes content on their console (again exclusive), piggy back off of Apple's new data center for online gaming and work with Apple to improve it, perhaps add Ping/Game Center social networking, add/license iChat/FaceTime or work on a Nintendo Game Store powered by Apple.

There are plenty of other ways they can collaborate.

It would be amazing if Apple were to buy Nintendo or make them a subsidiary (to keep the brand name, ie FileMaker)
post #75 of 75
Great idea below. Or, they could simply sell a Nintendo gaming case accessory rather than have to re-engineer the iPhone a lot for gaming control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think the main flaw when it comes to the controls is just that you can't do two gestures at once. If you look at a standard controller, your two thumbs control 10 buttons and two analog sticks. The advantage they have is the shoulder buttons as you can have 4 fingers on those all the time.

All the iPhone really needs is shoulder buttons.

Trouble is, how to implement them on a device with no fixed orientation. If the back of the phone was touch-sensitive, it might work but I think they could just make the edge touch-sensitive like this:



I don't think it matters if it only works in one direction - although they have to take account of the earphone location.

This kind of basic development gives you way more control over games. It can be a capacitive metal band. In a first person shooter, it gets mapped to fire so you can move with the left thumb, aim with the right thumb and fire with the first finger. Platformers can use it to jump and fire so you get the timing right.
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