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Rick Perry

post #1 of 178
8/12/11 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
Rick Perry hates women, children, minorities, teachers, and little puppy dogs. He wants to kill old people and throw Granny out on the street. He kills! He executes! Then he prays! To God!

Quote:
Perry also did poorly on classes within his animal science major. In fall semester 1970, he received a D in veterinary anatomy, a F in a second course on organic chemistry and a C in animal breeding. He did get an A in world military systems and "Improv. of Learning" -- his only two As while at A&M.

That's it. A D in veterinary anatomy. Clearly this guy can't be President.

Besides, if you close your eyes, he sounds just like George Bush!



You know it's going to happen... bring it on...
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post #2 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:13am
Plus he has "no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one".
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #3 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:25am
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He suggested Texas should secede from the union, why would he even want to be president when he wants Texas to leave?

I kind of want the US to break up into a few pieces also, but I don't want to be president.
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post #4 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

He suggested Texas should secede from the union, why would he even want to be president when he wants Texas to leave?

To rectify the policies that have resulted in such suggestions, perhaps?
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post #5 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:35am
Another neo-con joining the race? That's a good thing for Ron Paul.

And what grades did Obama get in college? Oh, that's right. He won't release those records.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #6 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

To rectify the policies that have resulted in such suggestions, perhaps?

GWB doubled the debt, what would Perry do differently?

I know that he would probably cancel obamacare, but that doesn't really matter - without single payer, our out of control medical spending will bankrupt us soon, no matter if it is private insurance or paid by the government. And GWB doubled the debt even without obamacare (I have no opinion on any obamacare increases to our defect - but I know that Republicans are sure it does).
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post #7 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

GWB doubled the debt, what would Perry do differently?

I know that he would probably cancel obamacare, but that doesn't really matter - without single payer, our out of control medical spending will bankrupt us soon, no matter if it is private insurance or paid by the government. And GWB doubled the debt even without obamacare.

Please tell me how single payer solves that problem. Show your work.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #8 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Please tell me how single payer solves that problem. Show your work.

Canada spends $3500/person, we spend $8000/person, and they live longer than we do. What would Perry do differently than the debt-doubling GWB?
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post #9 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

GWB doubled the debt, what would Perry do differently?

I don't know if he would or not, but the hope is he'd at least unseat the guy who has piled up more debt in 3 years than Bush did in 8 and slow down the freight train.

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post #10 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I don't know if he would or not, but the hope is he'd at least unseat the guy who has piled up more debt in 3 years than Bush did in 8 and slow down the freight train.

Sorry, that is a bad argument. Our defect problem since Obama was elected are 100% due to a drop in tax revenues, and that tax revenue drop would have happened no matter who got elected.
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post #11 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Plus he has "no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one".



Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

GWB doubled the debt, what would Perry do differently?

I know that he would probably cancel obamacare, but that doesn't really matter - without single payer, our out of control medical spending will bankrupt us soon, no matter if it is private insurance or paid by the government. And GWB doubled the debt even without obamacare (I have no opinion on any obamacare increases to our defect - but I know that Republicans are sure it does).

GWB did double the debt...that is true. Then again, Obama has spent more money than Bush did in eight years, so....

As for single payer: You continue to make the claim that single payer would reduce costs and that private insurance in bankrupting the country. It's completely nonsensical.
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post #12 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

As for single payer: You continue to make the claim that single payer would reduce costs and that private insurance in bankrupting the country. It's completely nonsensical.

It is basic math, SDW - We will not be able to afford medical care if current trends keep up, and Canada will be fine.
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post #13 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Sorry, that is a bad argument. Our defect problem since Obama was elected are 100% due to a drop in tax revenues, and that tax revenue drop would have happened no matter who got elected.

Actually not 100%. Obama has added at least around $1T (stimulus was around $800B alone) in spending that may or may not have been there with a different President.

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post #14 of 178
8/12/11 at 11:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Actually not 100%. Obama has added at least around $1T (stimulus was around $800B alone) in spending that may or may not have been there with a different President.

I agree - Obama added $1Trillion, Bush added $5T (plus had policies that resulted in the drop in revenue, so add that $4T or so in to get $9T). If I were president, I would have done things differently, but I don't think that McCain would have.
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post #15 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:01pm
Re: Perry

I think he presents the only real opposition to Romney, who is the only electable candidate at present (IMO). One good point I read yesterday is that Perry brings together all the elements of the Republican party...fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, evangelicals, Tea Party and the establishment. Others are more fragmented: Bachmann has the Tea Party. Santorum has social conservatives. Romney has the establishment and fiscal conservatives. Paul has libertarians, etc. It's a good point (can't find the article).

I still prefer Romney for his business experience and focus on economic issues. I also think he's more presidential than Perry or any other candidate. I disagree with each of them on gay marriage (I oppose it but don't want an amendment) and on abortion as well (I lean pro-choice, but think Roe V. Wade is a bad decision and support several restrictions on abortion).
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post #16 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I agree - Obama added $1Trillion, Bush added $5T (plus had policies that resulted in the drop in revenue, so add that $4T or so in to get $9T). If I were president, I would have done things differently, but I don't think that McCain would have.

You're comparing different time frames and mixing things up. I don't know if it deliberate or not.

Let's say it this way:

During Bush's terms (8 years) the total debt increased about $4.3T.

During Obama's term (3 years so far) the total debt increased about $4.5T.

Not all of the spending or revenue reductions are attributable to these men or their policies (one must look at Congress first actually.)

Claims about what tax revenue would or wouldn't have done is a guess at this point because that is strongly affected by government policy. Obama came in mouthing off about how bad the corporate sector is...started threatening higher taxes and higher employment costs down the road...implemented his ill-conceived Keynesian "stimulus" which simply stimulated unemployment higher. I dare say that a different approach might not have resulted in the reduction in tax revenue we've seen.

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post #17 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

It is basic math, SDW - We will not be able to afford medical care if current trends keep up, and Canada will be fine.

Care to support that?
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post #18 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Care to support that?

We spend $8000/person, they spend $3500, and they live longer - I already said that. Canada's expenses have not risen much over the last few years, while ours grow more than 7% per year. We have three choices:

1. Single payer, with aggressive cost supression on doctors and suppliers
2. Cancel medicare and let old people just die, unable to afford medical insurance
3. Hyperinflationary currency collapse, followed by #2 and worse
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post #19 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I agree - Obama added $1Trillion, Bush added $5T (plus had policies that resulted in the drop in revenue, so add that $4T or so in to get $9T). If I were president, I would have done things differently, but I don't think that McCain would have.

Welcome to bizarro world, where:
  • Tax cuts are spending
  • Record highs in reveneue=less revenue
  • Spending money 4x as fast as one's predecessor is fiscally responsible.
  • Unemployment checks create jobs.

A interesting place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
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post #20 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

We spend $8000/person, they spend $3500, and they live longer - I already said that. Canada's expenses have not risen much over the last few years, while ours grow more than 7% per year. We have three choices:

1. Single payer, with aggressive cost supression on doctors and suppliers
2. Cancel medicare and let old people just die, unable to afford medical insurance
3. Hyperinflationary currency collapse, followed by #2 and worse


You're a real piece of work.
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post #21 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

A interesting place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

You are not even trying to understand.

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartb...ending-revenue

How exactly can you disagree with my points about the cost of medical care in this country? It is math, not subjective. And look at the red line on that graph. If you look at state revenue it is even worse.
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post #22 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

We spend $8000/person, they spend $3500, and they live longer - I already said that. Canada's expenses have not risen much over the last few years, while ours grow more than 7% per year. We have three choices:

1. Single payer, with aggressive cost supression on doctors and suppliers
2. Cancel medicare and let old people just die, unable to afford medical insurance
3. Hyperinflationary currency collapse, followed by #2 and worse

We have more choices. One of those is to de-government-ize the health care and health insurance markets in the US. Both of these are heavily molested by government control and spending.

We do have another choice from what you've presented.

It starts here:

1. Change the preferential tax treatment for employer-provided health insurance.
2. Allow insurance to be sold across state lines (or even across country borders.)
3. Eliminate all government coverage mandates and price control on health insurance.
4. Lighten up some of the health care service and product provider regulations to allow more innovation and competition.

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post #23 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We do have another choice from what you've presented.

Do you have an example of a place that kind of plan works? How much do they spend per person?
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post #24 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Do you have an example of a place that kind of plan works? How much do they spend per person?

I don't.

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post #25 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I don't.

Then it is high risk - we are talking about the survival of the currency. If our currency collapses due to the net present value $60 Trillion in medicare unfunded liabilities, it will be world wars and depressions - starvation and death.

How willing are you to experiment?
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post #26 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Then it is high risk

I don't think so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

we are talking about the survival of the currency.

If our currency collapses due to the net present value $60 Trillion in medicare unfunded liabilities, it will be world wars and depressions - starvation and death.

You appear to be confused. The survival of the currency is almost entirely unrelated to the healthcare situation and pretty much 100% related to The Fed and its fiat money system.

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post #27 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I don't think so.

I'm not confused, fiat currencies die when the debt/gdp gets too high. Once you add in medicare, our debt/gdp is way too high (500% or so). Single payer vs not single payer is the only decision that matters, everything else is at least an order of magnitude less important.
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post #28 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I'm not confused, fiat currencies die when the debt/gdp gets too high. Once you add in medicare, our debt/gdp is way too high (500% or so).

I think you are. Fiat currencies always die and they die because the temptation to continue printing and spending (and thus debasing the currency) is too strong. You are looking at symptoms rather than the cause.

The spending you're referring to is what it is because of the fiat currency and the politicians inability and unwillingness to control it. They are aided by the fact that they own the printing press so they're not forced to keep spending in check. They just keep promising and printing. That's how the currency collapses.

The fiat currency is the root problem here. All the rest are symptoms of that problem.

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post #29 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I think you are. Fiat currencies always die and they die because the temptation to continue printing and spending (and thus debasing the currency) is too strong. You are looking at symptoms rather than the cause.

The spending you're referring to is what it is because of the fiat currency and the politicians inability and unwillingness to control it. They are aided by the fact that they own the printing press so they're not forced to keep spending in check. They just keep promising and printing. That's how the currency collapses.

The fiat currency is the root problem here. All the rest are symptoms of that problem.

Medicare is going to add $60 trillion to our national debt without changes. That is out of control spending if I have ever heard it, it is enough spending to kill the currency, and the currency will probably survive if we can cut that down to $5 trillion. The survival of the currency is directly tied to the health care laws.
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post #30 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Welcome to bizarro world, where:

...
  • Unemployment checks create jobs.

A bizarro world also known as the White House Briefing Room:

Carney: Unemployment Benefits Could Create Up To 1 Million Jobs
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post #31 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Medicare is going to add $60 trillion to our national debt without changes. That is out of control spending if I have ever heard it, it is enough spending to kill the currency, and the currency will probably survive if we can cut that down to $5 trillion. The survival of the currency is directly tied to the health care laws.

I understand what you're saying.

I don't think you get what I'm saying.

Yes the spending is a problem. A major problem. But the currency collapse will be a result of the nature of fiat money systems and printing presses. The out of control spending is just a symptom of this. Sure, getting the spending under control will postpone the inevitable. But it is not the cause. And the problem here is that most people including (and probably especially) politicians don't understand the relationships of these things at all and they think they can just keep making promises, keep spending, keep borrowing, keep printing...so they won't stop.

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post #32 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

We spend $8000/person, they spend $3500, and they live longer - I already said that. Canada's expenses have not risen much over the last few years, while ours grow more than 7% per year. We have three choices:

1. Single payer, with aggressive cost supression on doctors and suppliers
2. Cancel medicare and let old people just die, unable to afford medical insurance
3. Hyperinflationary currency collapse, followed by #2 and worse

Those are the only 3 choices? Nothing else can be done?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #33 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

A bizarro world also known as the White House Briefing Room:

Carney: Unemployment Benefits Could Create Up To 1 Million Jobs

I like how the Obama arrogance leaks out:

Quote:
Carney responded: "Oh, uh, it is by, uh, I would expect a reporter from the Wall Street Journal would know this as part of the entrance exam."

This has got to be the most economically ignorant administration since FDR.

These guys are dumber than a box of rocks.

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post #34 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Medicare is going to add $60 trillion to our national debt without changes. That is out of control spending if I have ever heard it, it is enough spending to kill the currency, and the currency will probably survive if we can cut that down to $5 trillion. The survival of the currency is directly tied to the health care laws.

A government created problem there. Medicare does need to be reigned in, but how do you do that? Reigning in Medicare does not translate to old people simply dying. There has to be a plan that starts somewhere rather than simply saying, if we touch it they will die.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #35 of 178
8/12/11 at 12:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

...
2. Cancel medicare and let old people just die, unable to afford medical insurance
3. Hyperinflationary currency collapse, followed by #2 and worse

Hysterical doomsday scenarios like this are irrational since they ignore they dynamics inherent in any change put into effect. It does nothing to advance the discussion.

Medicare is broken but there are many ways to fix it, without simply canceling the whole program:

Three Simple Ways Medicare Can Save Money

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We have more choices ...

1. Change the preferential tax treatment for employer-provided health insurance.
2. Allow insurance to be sold across state lines (or even across country borders.)
3. Eliminate all government coverage mandates and price control on health insurance.
4. Lighten up some of the health care service and product provider regulations to allow more innovation and competition.

5. Expand medical savings accounts
6. Legislate price transparency
...

There are many, many more choices, none of which satisfy the government's Prime Directive: expand government.
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post #36 of 178
8/12/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I like how the Obama arrogance leaks out:



This has got to be the most economically ignorant administration since FDR.

These guys are dumber than a box of rocks.

Actually, they are hedging by saying it was the extending Unemployment as well as the Payroll Tax Cuts that creates job. In fact as the interview goes on, it leans towards payroll tax cuts being extended and nearly stop talking unemployment extension for the most part. But they kept throwing that in as, "if we pay them, they will spend".

It sounds like they are buying people off to keep them happy and quiet.
NoahJ
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post #37 of 178
8/12/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

5. Expand medical savings accounts

Ultimately eliminating the personal income tax would solve my #1 and eliminate the need for any special rules for #5 since #5 is really just about saving away pre-income-tax money for medical expenses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

6. Legislate price transparency

What is this?

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post #38 of 178
8/12/11 at 1:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Hysterical doomsday scenarios like this are irrational since they ignore they dynamics inherent in any change put into effect. It does nothing to advance the discussion

Its not hysterical, we need to cut medical expenses by 50% or more. I'm not going to register to read your article, what are the three points? The reason that it sounds like a doomsday scenerio is that it is one, does not make it less real.

Noah - those are the only things I see. What do you think can be done?
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post #39 of 178
8/12/11 at 1:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I understand what you're saying.

Suppose we went to the gold standard, how would that help us? Our medical expenses would still be out of control - we would just be forced into drastic measures due to the physical limits of the currency.

Going to the gold standard would make the problems much more immediate.
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post #40 of 178
8/12/11 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Going to the gold standard would make the problems much more immediate.

Probably. And prevent future spiraling out of control. The constraints of reality tend to do that.

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