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Google announces plans to acquire Motorola Mobility for $12.5B - Page 5

post #161 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

Maybe this will allow Google to address some of the interface lag seen in Android handsets. If they have the hardware and the software they have not excuse for this. I don't know what Apple and Microsoft did right about their interfaces and touchscreens. I just know that iOS and WP7 have interfaces that are extremely responsive compared to any of the Android phones I've seen, even the Nexus phones.

And this is where I see problems between Google and its other handset partners. It's true that keeping other OEM's from using android would be a disincentive for Google, but that doesn't mean that any hardware/software optimizations need to be shared. In that scenario, Motorola would soon become THE android phone to buy because it works better than the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQ78 View Post

Wouldn't it be anti-competitive to give away IP to all but one company?

Apple is able to pay fair market value on the IP once the IP is considered on the market... correct?

It is one thing for a company to not license out their technology, but once they start licensing to other companies for $x dollars, don't other companies get to pay the fair market value?

Would Google be allowed to freely license their IP to all but Apple?

Maybe they would... I don't know.

Actually, unless the IP becomes standardized, a company can choose who and who not to license and for how much on a case by case basis.
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post #162 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

As I've said already... Google is a search company... they can drop Android tomorrow and live... can Apple drop iOS and still live.

Now Google will most likely have the ability to shake hands with Apple and call it a day... or Apple can continue to fight Android and have the possibility of Google asking for an injunction on Apple's products because of patents owned by MM.

Don't ever forget what I said above... Google is a search/ad company... Apple is the OS company.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it sure seems like the 16 million (roughly) Mac computers they sell in a year could keep them afloat as a company even if iOS was gone tomorrow. Obviously it would be a huge blow, but I don't think you would shut down a company selling billions per year in computers, would you?
post #163 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Chrome OS is there as Google's "Plan B." They know Android is doomed, and spewing $12 billion on Motorola Mobility is their last resort. As in "We hope the judge will be lenient because we're just too big to die. Aren't we? Yay open!"

You may well be right. I think that Chrome OS always has been "Plan B".

The questions I have is:

1) Is there enough usable capability (without a cloud connection)?

2) Even when the cloud is available -- how does it perform compared to native apps that are close(r) to the hardware?

3) How successful will Google be pushing Chrome OS as an alternative to Android -- seeing how they will have screwed over and pissed off their partners and competitors, alike?

4) Does anybody trust Google -- even [especially] with the things that they do well?


I use Google services as little as I can -- and look for acceptable alternatives wherever I can.
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post #164 of 237
The patents are a smokescreen, and Googlerola's Android "partners" should be very, very afraid. Motorola was hard up for cash, and Google needed patents. But there was no reason to buy the entire company - I'm sure Motorola would have been happy to sell those patents for a cool billion or two.

Google is buying Motorola because they want to get into the hardware business, and Motorola is the only hardware maker they could afford that comes complete with a tasty patent portfolio topping.

The patents will prove handy - it'll at least keep MS, HP and Apple from freezing them out of the handset business - but there's no way for them to make the current Android licensing model work long-term given the IP backlash Android is likely to face from Oracle, MS, Apple and others. Android will end up costing hardware manufacturers more than Windows Phone (or WebOS, if HP decides to enter the licensing game, which they might). No way will Samsung and LG pay more to Google than they would to MS or HP.

The only way forward for Google is to make their own hardware, allowing them to gobble up all of the margins and thereby covering the cost of all the IP they, um, borrowed from others for Android. They'll probably still sell the phones at a slight loss just to gobble up more eyeballs for their advertising / Orwellian tracking network, but they'll make it up (and then some) via banner ads and selling your personal information to the highest bidder.
post #165 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

The patents are a smokescreen, and Googlerola's Android "partners" should be very, very afraid. Motorola was hard up for cash, and Google needed patents. But there was no reason to buy the entire company - I'm sure Motorola would have been happy to sell those patents for a cool billion or two..

Incorrect - Moto had significant cash from the demerger. 3BN in cash according to Yahoo.

http://ycharts.com/companies/MMI/cash_on_hand
post #166 of 237
Google has a long history of screwing the industries it partners with, this move will give it's Android partners some grave concerns.

Funny how they all said almost the exact same thing in response to the acquisition.
post #167 of 237
Just read an interesting observation at ars technica. This acquisition means that Motorola is the ONLY handset maker that now has official legal indemnity for using android. I wonder if the other OEMs will pressure google and insist on this considering their current legal woes.
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post #168 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

The patents are a smokescreen, and Googlerola's Android "partners" should be very, very afraid. Motorola was hard up for cash, and Google needed patents. But there was no reason to buy the entire company - I'm sure Motorola would have been happy to sell those patents for a cool billion or two.

Google is buying Motorola because they want to get into the hardware business, and Motorola is the only hardware maker they could afford that comes complete with a tasty patent portfolio topping.

The patents will prove handy - it'll at least keep MS, HP and Apple from freezing them out of the handset business - but there's no way for them to make the current Android licensing model work long-term given the IP backlash Android is likely to face from Oracle, MS, Apple and others. Android will end up costing hardware manufacturers more than Windows Phone (or WebOS, if HP decides to enter the licensing game, which they might). No way will Samsung and LG pay more to Google than they would to MS or HP.

The only way forward for Google is to make their own hardware, allowing them to gobble up all of the margins and thereby covering the cost of all the IP they, um, borrowed from others for Android. They'll probably still sell the phones at a slight loss just to gobble up more eyeballs for their advertising / Orwellian tracking network, but they'll make it up (and then some) via banner ads and selling your personal information to the highest bidder.

Maybe. That would be premised on Google being ok with everyone of their partners leaving for MS or their own platforms. (According to J-Rag, that is exactly what is going to happen).

Google seems to prefer getting on lots of devices from lots of vendors. Maybe they've decided that doesn't work for them anymore, I guess.

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post #169 of 237
when it rains it pours

intrnet sites are saying that the foundation linux patents for android have expired.

maybe googly knew this and saw the major threat, now i guess more licensing agreements and $$$$
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post #170 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Any parent company acquiring a target company will fall in its share price because of consideration given to the target company, in this case $12.5 Billion.

Its part of business. It applies to all companies.

Not always...

When HP acquired Compaq -- both stocks went down.

It is hard to tell with AAPL, as they rarely buy other publicly traded companies.

... although, after they went public, and at the height of their popularity AAPL management (AIR including Jobs) joked that they were going to buy Xerox and IBM.
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post #171 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Maybe. But Google is an incredibly aggressive company with a culture of manifest superiority. They regard themselves as the smartest people in the room, always.

Given that, are they really going to be able to keep their hands off how Motorola designs and delivers phones? Andy Rubin now has a captive hardware design and manufacturing outfit to play with. Is he really going to just deliver the OS like always, or is he going to be interested in getting his hands into the Moto process, the better to deliver the best phone possible? And if he gets his hands into the Moto process, how long before Google starts making "improvements"? After all, Google people are going to encounter Moto people and you have to figure that the Google people are going to consider a lot of them old and second rate, because that's how Google rolls. Do you think they'll just shrug and let them do their thing? Or will they start "suggesting" some key personal to kick things up a notch?

Moto is decidedly old school compared to Google's model of übermenschen remaking the world in their own image. I really can't see things being left as they are, protests about patents and separate companies notwithstanding.

+++ QFT -- You broke that code!
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post #172 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by coxnvox View Post

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it sure seems like the 16 million (roughly) Mac computers they sell in a year could keep them afloat as a company even if iOS was gone tomorrow. Obviously it would be a huge blow, but I don't think you would shut down a company selling billions per year in computers, would you?

For the short term... sure, Apple would survive (plus they have 75 billion $ in the bank)... but long term I'm sure we can all see where the future is going.

Of course, I'm talking about a worse case scenario.

... and I think of Mark Twain at this juncture...
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post #173 of 237
As a tech enthusiast, I'm STOKED!

post #174 of 237
I have a love hate relationship with the hometown phone maker, but I gotta say that it is a very good development for Chicago as we really need more tech firms in the area. Sure we have groupon, but chicago really does not pull its weight in technology, at least not as much as in the financial sector. We'll see what will come out of this.
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post #175 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I have a love hate relationship with the hometown phone maker, but I gotta say that it is a very good development for Chicago as we really need more tech firms in the area. Sure we have groupon, but chicago really does not pull its weight in technology, at least not as much as in the financial sector. We'll see what will come out of this.

yeah, a lot of layoffs short term in Chicago is what I see incoming.
post #176 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I have a love hate relationship with the hometown phone maker, but I gotta say that it is a very good development for Chicago as we really need more tech firms in the area. Sure we have groupon, but chicago really does not pull its weight in technology, at least not as much as in the financial sector. We'll see what will come out of this.

Except Google may have bought Motorola strictly for IP reasons and let Motorola die on the vine causing thousands to lose their jobs.
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post #177 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Except Google may have bought Motorola strictly for IP reasons and let Motorola die on the vine causing thousands to lose their jobs.

Conceivably, but is the IP really worth that much? Even after subtracting Moto's cash position that would value the IP at 9Billion - so it seems that Google must place some value on the enterprise too - because otherwise it surely would have been cheaper to just bid 5 billion for Nortel.
post #178 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

The patents are a smokescreen, and Googlerola's Android "partners" should be very, very afraid. Motorola was hard up for cash, and Google needed patents. But there was no reason to buy the entire company - I'm sure Motorola would have been happy to sell those patents for a cool billion or two.

Google is buying Motorola because they want to get into the hardware business, and Motorola is the only hardware maker they could afford that comes complete with a tasty patent portfolio topping.

The patents will prove handy - it'll at least keep MS, HP and Apple from freezing them out of the handset business - but there's no way for them to make the current Android licensing model work long-term given the IP backlash Android is likely to face from Oracle, MS, Apple and others. Android will end up costing hardware manufacturers more than Windows Phone (or WebOS, if HP decides to enter the licensing game, which they might). No way will Samsung and LG pay more to Google than they would to MS or HP.

The only way forward for Google is to make their own hardware, allowing them to gobble up all of the margins and thereby covering the cost of all the IP they, um, borrowed from others for Android. They'll probably still sell the phones at a slight loss just to gobble up more eyeballs for their advertising / Orwellian tracking network, but they'll make it up (and then some) via banner ads and selling your personal information to the highest bidder.

Interesting ideas...

If Google really wants to be in the mobile device business, this could be a very astute move.

They could continue to support Android... possibly even making a deal with Oracle.

But, Google has had enough time that they could have an Android alternative under development that did not use Java. They likely will have used 'Nix and copied the OS structure wherever they [quasi] legally could (Apple, MS, RIMM, HPQ). Let's call this os GoOS.

Google could trade MMI GoOS for the MMI Patents.

Conceivably, the Google-owned MMI company could have the proprietary hardware and a proprietary GoOS ready to go, say, late this year or early next.

Google could support Android as long as anyone cared...

...then, in a few years, fold the MMI company into the mothership.

Google could have 2 OS horses in the race.
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post #179 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Except Google may have bought Motorola strictly for IP reasons and let Motorola die on the vine causing thousands to lose their jobs.

Exactly that. A lot of mays and mights at this juncture. It looks like no one saw this coming, so the responses have been all other the landscape. It's going to take awhile to sort out and allow the "big picture" to be seen. It could be even be years before the wisdom or failures of the deal are clear.
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post #180 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

As a tech enthusiast, I'm STOKED!

... Lotsa' crap


Ha!

Maybe what GOOG was after was a workable STB for GoogleTV
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post #181 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Exactly that. A lot of mays and mights at this juncture. It looks like no one saw this coming, so the responses have been all other the landscape. It's going to take awhile to sort out and allow the "big picture" to be seen. It could be even be years before the wisdom or failures of the deal are clear.

Is it just me, or does it seem like Google/Motorola have been scheming for a merger for years.

First, Motorola creates its own subdivision, Motorola Mobility back in Dec 2010.

Google decides to use TI OMAP (used in all Motorola phones) SoC as their reference chip for Ice Cream sandwich development

Google + Motorola = purely American companies. The marriage is complete, thanks to Sanjay and Larry Page, possibly Eric Schmidt too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Maybe what GOOG was after was a workable STB for GoogleTV


Totally! Now Google doesn't need Logitech anymore. Logitech shares down a bunch I bet.
post #182 of 237
[QUOTE=Dick Applebaum;1921421]
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

As a tech enthusiast, I'm STOKED!

... Lotsa' crap


Ha!

Maybe what GOOG was after was a workable STB for GoogleTV

They're going after the baby monitors, Dick...

They'll corner the market. After all... isn't that the first thing most babies say... "google google google..."
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post #183 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Maybe. But Google is an incredibly aggressive company with a culture of manifest superiority. They regard themselves as the smartest people in the room, always.

Given that, are they really going to be able to keep their hands off how Motorola designs and delivers phones? Andy Rubin now has a captive hardware design and manufacturing outfit to play with. Is he really going to just deliver the OS like always, or is he going to be interested in getting his hands into the Moto process, the better to deliver the best phone possible? And if he gets his hands into the Moto process, how long before Google starts making "improvements"? After all, Google people are going to encounter Moto people and you have to figure that the Google people are going to consider a lot of them old and second rate, because that's how Google rolls. Do you think they'll just shrug and let them do their thing? Or will they start "suggesting" some key personal to kick things up a notch?

Interesting perspective. But I disagree.

Andy Rubin is decidedly smart, accomplished ... when it comes to software. But what's his background and track record when it comes to hardware design? Even if we assume he had a big say in the design of the Sidekick at Danger, it was nothing remarkable (although, in terms of function, the product arguably helped to usher in the smartphone era).

Rubin already has had chances to influence if not control the design of Android phones in the Nexus reference series. Although each Nexus phone has been interesting and ahead of previous Droids, none has been groundbreaking or a standout. This is not surprising - Andy Rubin is not Steve Jobs. He is not Jonathan Ive. (Of course, they are not Andy Rubin either.) There is something special about the Apple culture built by Jobs that leads to the unique products that it generates. Jon Rubenstein took a bit of that magic with him to Palm, resulting in the distinctive Pre and WebOS. Neither Google nor Motorola has that kind of culture. Merging them will not produce it. This is no slag on either, for both are very good at what they do.

All to say, I expect to see improvement in the integration of hardware and software as a result of this merger, but I don't expect landscape shifting changes in the hardware.
post #184 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Just read an interesting observation at ars technica. This acquisition means that Motorola is the ONLY handset maker that now has official legal indemnity for using android. I wonder if the other OEMs will pressure google and insist on this considering their current legal woes.

That's important - and is one more reason why one of the other handset makers might be interested in the hardware portion of the business if Google decides to sell it off. Google could include indemnification and a license with the sale of the hardware division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

As a tech enthusiast, I'm STOKED!


Stoked? You really want Google controlling your living room, car navigation system, home phone systems, business home systems, etc?
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post #185 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I have a love hate relationship with the hometown phone maker, but I gotta say that it is a very good development for Chicago as we really need more tech firms in the area. Sure we have groupon, but chicago really does not pull its weight in technology, at least not as much as in the financial sector. We'll see what will come out of this.

As a former denizen of ChicagoLand (McHenry County, actually) I am familiar with the area. You had some tech companies, Moto... Bell & Howell comes to mind... but, back then (1968-1971) Sears, KraftCo, and the like were the biggies...

Anyway, I new Moto was in the Chicago area, and the semiconductor business was in Phoenix. I just assumed that MMI remained in Phoenix.

Ahh... the memories... Currency Exchanges... No branch banking... Mayor Daley... dyeing the Chicago River green for St. Paddy's Day... then someone waterskiing (avoiding the brown lumps)... being at the corner of Golf Mill Road and Golf Mill Road... The 1968 Democratic Convention... Tornado warnings... basements...
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post #186 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's important - and is one more reason why one of the other handset makers might be interested in the hardware portion of the business if Google decides to sell it off. Google could include indemnification and a license with the sale of the hardware division.



Stoked? You really want Google controlling your living room, car navigation system, home phone systems, business home systems, etc?

you say 'controlling' i say 'fully integrated'

We live in a 'facebook' world now. One cannot stay anonymous to your connected devices. All devices are tracked. Its the new reality. Its how said company uses your personal data is whats important. I am personally not 'afraid' of being tracked by Google.

Carriers track your location
ISP's track how much bandwidth you use
Facebook monitors what you like and dislike, and sells your personal information to 3rd party entities
Your credit score and finances can be checked through various online resources
Websites have been tracking your internet surfing habits for years through cookies
The list goes on...

This whole notion of 'Google gonna control your life' is a weak argument.
post #187 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You may well be right. I think that Chrome OS always has been "Plan B".

The questions I have is:

1) Is there enough usable capability (without a cloud connection)?

2) Even when the cloud is available -- how does it perform compared to native apps that are close(r) to the hardware?

3) How successful will Google be pushing Chrome OS as an alternative to Android -- seeing how they will have screwed over and pissed off their partners and competitors, alike?

4) Does anybody trust Google -- even [especially] with the things that they do well?


Lots of people apparently trust Google with things they do well. They are by far the #1 search company. Android is the top mobile platform. Gmail has millions and millions of users. Google+ has grown faster than Facebook. So yeah, lots of folks trust Google.
post #188 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Stoked? You really want Google controlling your living room, car navigation system, home phone systems, business home systems, etc?

His name is droideggs. Pretty sure he does.

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post #189 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

yeah, a lot of layoffs short term in Chicago is what I see incoming.

I don't know ... Although this is a typical consequence of mergers, Google has never carried out mass layoffs. Do they have the stomach for it?
post #190 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

As a former denizen of ChicagoLand (McHenry County, actually) I am familiar with the area. You had some tech companies, Moto... Bell & Howell comes to mind... but, back then (1968-1971) Sears, KraftCo, and the like were the biggies...

Anyway, I new Moto was in the Chicago area, and the semiconductor business was in Phoenix. I just assumed that MMI remained in Phoenix.

Ahh... the memories... Currency Exchanges... No branch banking... Mayor Daley... dyeing the Chicago River green for St. Paddy's Day... then someone waterskiing (avoiding the brown lumps)... being at the corner of Golf Mill Road and Golf Mill Road... The 1968 Democratic Convention... Tornado warnings... basements...

How's Chicago enjoying their new mayor, BTW?
post #191 of 237
[QUOTE=island hermit;1921424]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


They're going after the baby monitors, Dick...

They'll corner the market. After all... isn't that the first thing most babies say... "google google google..."



...Thanks for unfixing my quote... you really have a nasty streak! Touché!
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post #192 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I don't know ... Although this is a typical consequence of mergers, Google has never carried out mass layoffs. Do they have the stomach for it?

what are all the Moto-Blur software developers going to do? I have a feeling a lot of software engineers on Moto side will get the boot? Or maybe GOOG might be nice enough to take them under their wing. Lets see how this plays out. I'm extremely excited about this news though.
post #193 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

what are all the Moto-Blur software developers going to do? I have a feeling a lot of software engineers on Moto side will get the boot? Or maybe GOOG might be nice enough to take them under their wing. Lets see how this plays out. I'm extremely excited about this news though.

We don't even have an announcement that Moto is going to kill Moto Blur with this merger, though certainly there will be great jubilation in the Android community if Moto promises to abjure hideous reskins in future and stick with stock android.
post #194 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Lots of people apparently trust Google with things they do well. They are by far the #1 search company. Android is the top mobile platform. Gmail has millions and millions of users. Google+ has grown faster than Facebook. So yeah, lots of folks trust Google.

I don't think you can equate using Google Services with trusting Google. They do some things very well -- and it would be self-defeating not to use those services.

But trust... No!
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post #195 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Apple can not have equal leverage if Android has already more than twice the market share of iOS. Apple, MS, RIM and others have spent big bucks already to ensure that Android is not free. Well, now it looks like Android may well remain free and then some. Apple might have to pay more royalties to Android than the other way around.

We'll see... but, imo, Google just made the rest of the industry look like chumps...

I wouldn't call $12.5B free. Also, Apple can still sue HTC, MOTO and Samsung. Some are already paying a MS tax.
post #196 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I don't think you can equate using Google Services with trusting Google. They do some things very well -- and it would be self-defeating not to use those services.

But trust... No!

i mean, in theory, no private citizen should 'trust' any publicly traded company whose sole purpose is to expand profits on a quarterly basis.

so in this regards, yes, trust nobody, especially corporations
post #197 of 237
Florian Mueller has a second interesting post on the subject

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...ak-up-fee.html

I'm not entirely sure I agree with him, or even that he's making a coherent argument, but the suggestion that the patents are not the whole story seems plausible.
post #198 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

I wouldn't call $12.5B free. Also, Apple can still sue HTC, MOTO and Samsung. Some are already paying a MS tax.

It would be free in the sense that Google may well be in the position to make Apple sit down and talk... or fight to the death in a patent war. Remember... MM is also suing Apple... which now means that Google is suing Apple.

Google foots the 12.5 billion bill not the phone manufacturers.

... and we'll have to see if this changes the landscape with MS at all.
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post #199 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Florian Mueller has a second interesting post on the subject

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...ak-up-fee.html

I'm not entirely sure I agree with him, or even that he's making a coherent argument, but the suggestion that the patents are not the whole story seems plausible.

I haven't read the Mueller post yet...

But, on another thread the below was posted. This indicates that Google may have bought its way into the living room by virtue (sigh, pun) of Moto's TV STB business and close dealings with ComCast/NBC.

Scary...



Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

+1 THIS

I think the real story is, aside from getting all those patents, Google now has access to millions of living rooms now.

Comcast uses Motorola boxes for their cable set top boxes in California atm. I think this will continue on to the rest of the states.

I posted this on other thread, but I do believe its highly relevant to this discussion

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #200 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Incorrect - Moto had significant cash from the demerger. 3BN in cash according to Yahoo.

http://ycharts.com/companies/MMI/cash_on_hand

And at the rate Motorola is burning thru cash, that won't last very long. Motorola is up against not only Apple and Nokia, but also Samsung and LG (and possibly HP, if they ever get their act together). All of them are larger, with better balance sheets.

Like I said, if this deal were just about patents, Google could have bought those off Motorola for a couple billion, giving them the cash they need to compete with the big boys over the long haul. Google didn't buy Motorola for the patents. They bought them because they're about to change the Android business model.
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