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Google announces plans to acquire Motorola Mobility for $12.5B - Page 2

post #41 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doxxic View Post

It may be about patents, but it will definitely undermine 3rd party trust in Google.

It will be very tempting to bring all new developments to Motorola devices first, because Google now can develop hardware and software together.

Depends. If they provide these patents to all of their partners for use in their Android products, none of them are going to complain too much. If they hold them tight, then yeah, their partners are going to revolt.

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post #42 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:46am
Are many of Moto's telecoms patents likely to be like Nokias, where they are part of the standards for 3G, 4G etc and every other manufacturer licences these at fixed fees?
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post #43 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:50am
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post #44 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:50am
I agree with most of the posters on here that Google did this primarily for the patents. However, I'm sure Google will still keep releasing a new Nexus phone (and maybe even tablet, eventually) every year. Now they just don't have to partner with a phone maker, since they now own one.
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post #45 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:50am
Partial quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


By publicly stating (though barely veiled) to sue other Android licensees, that would strongly motivate Google to up their bid.

I suspect you are right on. If true is was nothing short of blackmail when you think about it!
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post #46 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:55am
Google probably did buy Moto for their patents.
But this surely will not hold up Apple one bit. If the patents were being infringed Motorola is trying hard to stick it to Apple in the courts now.
Maybe Google has better Lawyers.
More than anything. Once the Samsungs and HTC's start jumping ship to Microsoft, this will give Google one company that is their very own.
All in all, the biggest losers will be Google. That is one big chunk of change.
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post #47 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Partial quote



I suspect you are right on. If true is was nothing short of blackmail when you think about it!

Basically. Jha would have been trying to maximize shareholder return, as he has to. Pretty good way to have done so without making anything public about the negotiations.

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post #48 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

Are many of Moto's telecoms patents likely to be like Nokias, where they are part of the standards for 3G, 4G etc and every other manufacturer licences these at fixed fees?

Many are, but at least according to Jha, many also are not.
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post #49 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Or maybe they just really really hated Motoblur I'm seeing a lot of jubilation from android users that it will be gone forever on places like TIMN.



But seriously, I think the answers lies in Larry Page's own words: "Our acquisition of Motorola will increase competition by strengthening Google's patent portfolio, which will enable us to better protect Android from anti-competitive threats from Microsoft, Apple and other companies."
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post #50 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

Are many of Moto's telecoms patents likely to be like Nokias, where they are part of the standards for 3G, 4G etc and every other manufacturer licences these at fixed fees?

From my limited understanding, they cover some pretty fundamental parts of the standards. They've been in the game a very long time.

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post #51 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Partial quote



I suspect you are right on. If true is was nothing short of blackmail when you think about it!

Legal extortion! ...(I know my business crimes)
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post #52 of 237
8/15/11 at 5:59am
Ok - finally something interesting on the conference call. Google is still intending to partner with other firms with the Nexus handsets. They're claiming that Samsung and HTC will be able to bid for that privilege equally with Moto.
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post #53 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:00am
The only thing of value to Google is the IP that MOTO holds for the mobility space. I was wondering tho if MOTO Mobility actually holds those patents or if they are held by Motorola Mobility or if they are held by Motorola Solutions and licensed to Moto Mob. It would be an egregious oversight by Google to have purchased Moto Mob for the IP if the IP was held and licensed from Moto Solutions.

And it may be that Google decided to step in and slap-down Moto Mob for trying to extort money from the other Android handset makers. What better way than to walk into the boradroom and say "stop it - we own you".
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post #54 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

I agree with most of the posters on here that Google did this primarily for the patents. However, I'm sure Google will still keep releasing a new Nexus phone (and maybe even tablet, eventually) every year. Now they just don't have to partner with a phone maker, since they now own one.

And that might be the main difference, from a hardware perspective. Android vendors have already become accustomed to there being a Google stamped line, that being the Nexus line. It is more of a reference spec and has only been granted to one vendor at a time. Now that vendor might be google. The vendors seem to have been fine with some other vendor doing the nexus line, so maybe that vendor being moto/google won't be a huge obstacle for them to get used to.

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post #55 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/11/s...ent-royalties/

I think Jha's comments regarding possibly using their patents against other Andrdoid licensees was a message for Google during their acquisition negotiations. If google only wanted the patents (since they have never shown interest in their won hardware) they might have been lowballing their offers for moto. By publicly stating (though barely veiled) to sue other Android licensees, that would strongly motivate Google to up their bid. While Google' weak patent position hurts them and their partners in their competition against Apple and MS, even worse for the platform would be an Android civil war with every vendor expending resources suing, counter-suing and defending . If Google can get enough depth in the IP, then they can offer blanket coverage to their vendors and perhaps 'encourage' them not to fight amongst themselves.

+++ this
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post #56 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post



But seriously, I think the answers lies in Larry Page's own words: "Our acquisition of Motorola will increase competition by strengthening Google's patent portfolio, which will enable us to better protect Android from anti-competitive threats from Microsoft, Apple and other companies."

Yes, and listening to the conference call so far nobody is making any concrete claim on how this merger will improve Moto's ability to deliver phones. This merger is all about patents, and Google doesn't really seem to have thought very much about what it will do with the Moto business itself.
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post #57 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

You would have to think this will seriously piss off HTC, Samsung etc. Especially given the issues around Google preventing some licences putting other third party apps on the handset. On the one hand saying you must play by our rules, and now directly competing, sure to annoy them no end.

And so much for all the hyperbole about how bad patents are, let's just go and bus us some more!

And... a 63% premium, wow, that is a lot of cash burnt. Wonder what the shareholders reactions will be. Will be interesting to see how the market responds.


great post
do as i do not as i say, patents i guess DO MATTER and apple SJ has hit android BROADSIDE and its hurting enough to spend crap loads on it
wow, now MS "visits" HTS and samsung and says why help your competion hurt YOU
go to MS as did nokia

MS doesn't need to buy hardware companies, now, let google kill them off
ha ha
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post #58 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Ok - finally something interesting on the conference call. Google is still intending to partner with other firms with the Nexus handsets. They're claiming that Samsung and HTC will be able to bid for that privilege equally with Moto.

interesting.

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post #59 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:03am
It would be funny if, despite controlling the OS and the hardware, Moto-Goog phones will still be late getting Android updates because of carriers playing interference.
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post #60 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:03am
And the winner is...

...WebOS? ...QNX?
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post #61 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

The only thing of value to Google is the IP that MOTO holds for the mobility space. I was wondering tho if MOTO Mobility actually holds those patents or if they are held by Motorola Mobility or if they are held by Motorola Solutions and licensed to Moto Mob. It would be an egregious oversight by Google to have purchased Moto Mob for the IP if the IP was held and licensed from Moto Solutions.

And it may be that Google decided to step in and slap-down Moto Mob for trying to extort money from the other Android handset makers. What better way than to walk into the boradroom and say "stop it - we own you".

Jha states that Moto Mobility has 17000 patents approved and 7000 further pending. Presumably the IP was split between the two firms along with other assets.
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post #62 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

Google probably did buy Moto for their patents.
But this surely will not hold up Apple one bit. If the patents were being infringed Motorola is trying hard to stick it to Apple in the courts now.
Maybe Google has better Lawyers.
More than anything. Once the Samsungs and HTC's start jumping ship to Microsoft, this will give Google one company that is their very own.
All in all, the biggest losers will be Google. That is one big chunk of change.

Since MS already made a preferred strategic alliance with Nokia, I don't know they would find them any more appealing than Android. And the MS devices they already offer haven't been big market successes. As long as Google reassures their existing partners that there will be no preferential treatment for Moto, then this should be seen as a huge plus by the Handset Alliance partners IMHO.

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post #63 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Yes, and listening to the conference call so far nobody is making any concrete claim on how this merger will improve Moto's ability to deliver phones. This merger is all about patents, and Google doesn't really seem to have thought very much about what it will do with the Moto business itself.

I don't know if that's completely true. It must have entered Page's mind that being a software pure play has its drawbacks. Perhaps this is in part an answer to Microsoft/Nokia as well. But I have to say I don't feel strongly about that speculation.
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post #64 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Yes, and listening to the conference call so far nobody is making any concrete claim on how this merger will improve Moto's ability to deliver phones. This merger is all about patents, and Google doesn't really seem to have thought very much about what it will do with the Moto business itself.

Google has no interest in the hardware. This is why they are clear that moto will be run as a separate entity. Of course the patents will be transferred to google en masse. I don't think goog will even care if moto runs themselves out of business or maybe they will sell the corpse, sans patents, to an interested partner for the manufacturing and engineering experience that google has no interest in.

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post #65 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

It's only popular because it's used a lot

And I guess a politician is only popular because he/she gets a lot of votes.

Manufacturers can push what they want, there is only so much they can do, if the stuff does not sell no reseller will keep it forever. Resellers, ie, MSPs have much more power to push as it is their salespeople who actually close the deal with the end customer.
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post #66 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:07am
So Google is set to spend roughly one third of the cash they have on hand, to pay a 63% premium for a company that has been losing money, just so they can have the patents. Me thinks they would had fared better if they partnered with someone and bought the Nortel patents instead. That was one very expensive move by Google to let that slip away. They could had just spent maybe 2.5 b if they partnered, but instead they are paying 5 times that amount.
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post #67 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:08am
oops double post
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post #68 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:08am
The more I think about this, the more I conclude that Google next needs to bid for ZTE.

Why?

Because then the combined firm can be called Googonzola.
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post #69 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

From my limited understanding, they cover some pretty fundamental parts of the standards. They've been in the game a very long time.

The problem with that is if the patents are indeed fundamental, then they become standardized and must be licensed to any and every one at a set price.

After this play, I have to seriously question Android's profitability. Google has spent a great deal of money on a handset business that is bleeding cash every quarter. Google also has some potentially high dollar lawsuits against it because of android. Google has been less than upfront of what android earns in revenue from the beginning. How much is too much when it comes to this "free" OS?
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post #70 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:17am
I think I'll pat myself on the back. I've been saying for a year on here that Apple should buy MotoMobility. Now Google has it and everyone is going to learn just how valuable MM is to the mobile wars.

Bad move, Steve... you just lost a huge piece of the puzzle. $12.5 billion will seem like peanuts in another 2 years.
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post #71 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

So Google is set to spend roughly one third of the cash they have on hand, to pay a 63% premium for a company that has been losing money, just so they can have the patents. Me thinks they would had fared better if they partnered with someone and bought the Nortel patents instead. That was one very expensive move by Google to let that slip away. They could had just spent maybe 2.5 b if they partnered, but instead they are paying 5 times that amount.

Google had to insure that their customers weren't put out of business by Motorola Mobility's legal department. It would have been been a bad deal for Google if Moto forced HTC and Samsung to go elsewhere for an OS just to stay in business, leaving Google with only a failing Motorola as a customer. That might have spelled death for the Android platform.
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post #72 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

The problem with that is if the patents are indeed fundamental, then they become standardized and must be licensed to any and every one at a set price.

After this play, I have to seriously question Android's profitability. Google has spent a great deal of money on a handset business that is bleeding cash every quarter. Google also has some potentially high dollar lawsuits against it because of android. Google has been less than upfront of what android earns in revenue from the beginning. How much is too much when it comes to this "free" OS?

Well, Nortel's patents were just as or more parts of the various standards and that didn't keep Apple et al from bidding high for them. They can still be used as weapons, for both sides.

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post #73 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:28am
If it's really about acquiring the patents, then why not just buy the patents? B.S. They want the hardware business too and they're thinking that they can hang on to the other Android manufacturers even after acquiring moto mobility just by making promises of their undying devotion. My guess is they really have finally admitted (or observed) that their one-OS-many-phones 'open' model just cannot keep up with the pace of refinement and improvement of Apple's integrated approach.

Samsung, HTC and the other Android mfrs are probably scrambling right this very moment to find alternatives to suckling at the Google teat. At least Samsung has Bada but for those with no resources to build their own OS, this is a tough nut to crack given that MS is making out on the couch with Nokia. This development might send them straight to bed.
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post #74 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

If it's really about acquiring the patents, then why not just buy the patents? B.S. They want the hardware business too and they're thinking that they can hang on to the other Android manufacturers even after acquiring moto mobility just by making promises of their undying devotion. My guess is they really have finally admitted (or observed) that their one-OS-many-phones 'open' model just cannot keep up with the pace of refinement and improvement of Apple's integrated approach.

Samsung, HTC and the other Android mfrs are probably scrambling right this very moment to find alternatives to suckling at the Google teat. At least Samsung has Bada but for those with no resources to build their own OS, this is a tough nut to crack given that MS is making out on the couch with Nokia. This development might send them straight to bed.

umm, just a guess, but maybe moto didn't want to sell 'just the patents'.

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post #75 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:30am


Listen To Me!
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post #76 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

The problem with that is if the patents are indeed fundamental, then they become standardized and must be licensed to any and every one at a set price.

The patents are, at least according to Jha, a mixture of essential patents and unencumbered patents - I believe that the ones that Moto is asserting against Apple mostly fall into the latter camp. For example Moto is currently asserting

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...&RS=PN/6246862

Which seems to be a patent covering disabling the touchscreen when the phone is up against your ear.


Quote:
After this play, I have to seriously question Android's profitability. Google has spent a great deal of money on a handset business that is bleeding cash every quarter. Google also has some potentially high dollar lawsuits against it because of android. Google has been less than upfront of what android earns in revenue from the beginning. How much is too much when it comes to this "free" OS?

To be fair to Moto they're not bleeding very much, they hover mostly around break even. Definitely interesting times though - buying Moto significantly increases Google's legal liability as well as their defence.
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post #77 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Well, Nortel's patents were just as or more parts of the various standards and that didn't keep Apple et al from bidding high for them. They can still be used as weapons, for both sides.

Google has just made it so that Steve might have to find a couple of other manufacturers for iOS.

There was no other company other than MM that is so cheap, has such brand recognition and has such a large patent portfolio.

This well could be the move that will be looked upon in 5 years as the point where iOS became truly marginalized.

Dumb, dumb move on Apple's part imo... but we'll all know within two years if that's the case.
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post #78 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:33am
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Har! Very good!
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post #79 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Bold move. I wonder what HTC and other Android using handset makers will think about this...

Yes, I remember how "Playforsure" worked out for Microsoft and their partners at the time.

Can't see HTC, Samsung etc being too happy about this, they may well move over to MS WP7 now.
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post #80 of 237
8/15/11 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Google has just made it so that Steve might have to find a couple of other manufacturers for iOS.

There was no other company other than MM that is so cheap, has such brand recognition and has such a large patent portfolio.

This well could be the move that will be looked upon in 5 years as the point where iOS became truly marginalized.

Dumb, dumb move on Apple's part imo... but we'll all know within two years if that's the case.

maybe. Or maybe Apple believes the patents acquired from Nortel give them equal leverage. That is the only good part about the big boys acquiring massive IP right now. If they all have patents everyone else needs, then eventually they have to settle with each other and cross license. Anything else would be insane, though obviously they could all sue each other forever. Mutually ensured destruction, indeed.

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