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Google announces plans to acquire Motorola Mobility for $12.5B - Page 3

post #81 of 237
If Google bought Moto Mobility just to secure their patent portfolio, where will they capitalise on the purchase? Is there $12.5B in suing Apple for infringement wherever they can and in giving Fandroid driven hardware makers free access to the covered technology?

Perhaps Google has learned a lesson care of Apple. Apple of course, controls their hardware and OS. Perhaps Google has ambitions of becoming a hardware/OS company and of taking Apple on directly. A risky strategy, however, perhaps Google is out of options for reigning Apple in.

Two victims of this strategy would be the open, free Android mantra and the patents are evil and stifle innovation mantra. Of course, other manufacturers that depend on Android would become victims too, however, they will have seen the writing on the wall long before Android goes in-house and will have voluntarily moved on lol.
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post #82 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by deanbar View Post

Yes, I remember how "Playforsure" worked out for Microsoft and their partners at the time.

Can't see HTC, Samsung etc being too happy about this, they may well move over to MS WP7 now.

Why? So they can pay for an OS from another patent owning company that has previously shown they are willing to develop their own hardware and compete with their partners (Zune) where google has not?

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post #83 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by deanbar View Post

Yes, I remember how "Playforsure" worked out for Microsoft and their partners at the time.

Can't see HTC, Samsung etc being too happy about this, they may well move over to MS WP7 now.

And try to compete as an equal partner with the Nokia/Microsoft alliance?
And IMHO, Nokia will be purchased by MS within a year anyway. With HTC incredibly successful with their Android phone strategy, I would expect them to follow the advice in my signature.
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post #84 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

maybe. Or maybe Apple believes the patents acquired from Nortel give them equal leverage. That is the only good part about the big boys acquiring massive IP right now. If they all have patents everyone else needs, then eventually they have to settle with each other and cross license. Anything else would be insane, though obviously they could all sue each other forever. Mutually ensured destruction, indeed.

Apple can not have equal leverage if Android has already more than twice the market share of iOS. Apple, MS, RIM and others have spent big bucks already to ensure that Android is not free. Well, now it looks like Android may well remain free and then some. Apple might have to pay more royalties to Android than the other way around.

We'll see... but, imo, Google just made the rest of the industry look like chumps...
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post #85 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Google has no interest in the hardware. This is why they are clear that moto will be run as a separate entity. Of course the patents will be transferred to google en masse. I don't think goog will even care if moto runs themselves out of business or maybe they will sell the corpse, sans patents, to an interested partner for the manufacturing and engineering experience that google has no interest in.

I agree, Google has no interest in running a money pit like Motorola. The MM executives were just executing their golden exit plan.
post #86 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

If Google bought Moto Mobility just to secure their patent portfolio, where will they capitalise on the purchase? Is there $12.5B in suing Apple for infringement wherever they can and in giving Fandroid driven hardware makers free access to the covered technology?

Perhaps Google has learned a lesson care of Apple. Apple of course, controls their hardware and OS. Perhaps Google has ambitions of becoming a hardware/OS company and of taking Apple on directly. A risky strategy, however, perhaps Google is out of options for reigning Apple in.

Two victims of this strategy would be the open, free Android mantra and the patents are evil and stifle innovation mantra. Of course, other manufacturers that depend on Android would become victims too, however, they will have seen the writing on the wall long before Android goes in-house and will have voluntarily moved on lol.

Why would Google move Android in-house. Right now they have a greater than 2 to 1 share over Apple. Why is that? ... because there are a multitude of handset makers using Android. The purchase of MM will just strengthen Google's position.

Do you really think that Google would move to an Apple type business plan seeing how much of a lock they already have on market share. This move is just to ensure that Android remains free. Google can make up that 12.5 billion in no time.
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post #87 of 237
I didn't expect this to happen, but I'm not surprised!
post #88 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Apple can not have equal leverage if Android has already more than twice the market share of iOS. Apple, MS, RIM and others have spent big bucks already to ensure that Android is not free. Well, now it looks like Android may well remain free and then some. Apple might have to pay more royalties to Android than the other way around.

We'll see... but, imo, Google just made the rest of the industry look like chumps...

If Apple has the patents to disrupt the Android business, then they have leverage. Same goes for Google and iOS and WP7. Eventually, with such large patent holdings on all sides, something has to give. Imagine if they all decided to avoid settlements and push everything through the courts and the ITC. They could all get injunctions against each other's sales and end up with all parties having all of their stock sitting on the dock.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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...sometimes it's both
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post #89 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Apple can not have equal leverage if Android has already more than twice the market share of iOS. Apple, MS, RIM and others have spent big bucks already to ensure that Android is not free. Well, now it looks like Android may well remain free and then some. Apple might have to pay more royalties to Android than the other way around.

We'll see... but, imo, Google just made the rest of the industry look like chumps...

Sorry, I do not see where this is bad move for Apple. Google does not indemnify their Android customers so I don't see how this helps HTC. With the Motorola suit against Apple it is still mutually assured destruction. Apple may even be slightly ahead due to all the FRAND patents being held by Motorola. Again, will Motorola/Google continue this suit against Apple?
post #90 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

If Apple has the patents to disrupt the Android business, then they have leverage. Same goes for Google and iOS and WP7. Eventually, with such large patent holdings on all sides, something has to give. Imagine if they all decided to avoid settlements and push everything through the courts and the ITC. They could all get injunctions against each other's sales and end up with all parties having all of their stock sitting on the dock.

What??!! Imagine if Apple had to slow down its plan to push iOS... now imagine if it happens to Google... who's going to be hurt the most? Think about it.
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post #91 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

The only thing of value to Google is the IP that MOTO holds for the mobility space. I was wondering tho if MOTO Mobility actually holds those patents or if they are held by Motorola Mobility or if they are held by Motorola Solutions and licensed to Moto Mob. It would be an egregious oversight by Google to have purchased Moto Mob for the IP if the IP was held and licensed from Moto Solutions.

And it may be that Google decided to step in and slap-down Moto Mob for trying to extort money from the other Android handset makers. What better way than to walk into the boradroom and say "stop it - we own you".

I wondered about the same thing -- which Motorola has the iP? Motorola goes back to the 1930s -- the early days of radio. I would be surprised if the parent company would sell its IP to MMI. It would be very difficult, expensive and time-consuming to review the entire IP portfolio to separate those applicable to MMI -- Rather, just agree on a high-level licensing deal.

Wouldn't it be sweet irony if what Google gets is no IP, rather just license to use Motorola Solutions IP...
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post #92 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasimo View Post

I agree, Google has no interest in running a money pit like Motorola. The MM executives were just executing their golden exit plan.

They played them like a fiddle. That Android extortion move was brilliant.
post #93 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

What??!! Imagine if Apple had to slow down its plan to push iOS... now imagine if it happens to Google... who's going to be hurt the most? Think about it.

I think if either is barred from selling their products, both would be hurt equally.

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post #94 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I wondered about the same thing -- which Motorola has the iP? Motorola goes back to the 1930s -- the early days of radio. I would be surprised if the parent company would sell its IP to MMI. It would be very difficult, expensive and time-consuming to review the entire IP portfolio to separate those applicable to MMI -- Rather, just agree on a high-level licensing deal.

Wouldn't it be sweet irony if what Google gets is no IP, rather just license to use Motorola Solutions IP...

Please don't say that. The aftershocks from collective Android DOH will circle the world for weeks.
post #95 of 237
Doesn't Google already have enough non-performing divisions, or enough autonomous teams (like those working on Android vs. Chrome OS) that are seemingly in conflict with one another?

This expensive purchase might make good sense if it were part of some well-thought-out, long-term strategy. But it feels more like an impulsive response to the big recent patent deal. Such a move may look bold and decisive, but to me it seems to reflect a lack of corporate focus.

Google's governing strategic principle these days seems to be: Do everything. Jump into every conceivable business at the same time -- even money-losing ones -- and hope to somehow monetize it all via ad sales, which is the company's only meaningful profit center. So now Google, having bloated up from a search company to a search/advertising company, then a search/advertising/software company, then a search/advertising/software/social-networking company, is now about to become a search/advertising/software/social-networking/hardware company. How soon do they buy a wireless carrier, or an automobile company, or a chain of hotels?

Meanwhile Apple, myopic as it is, contents itself with a highly focused and integrated line of products and sucks up 2/3 of the industry's profits.
post #96 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

I predict this move will squeeze out other Android licensees. There is a reason Microsoft did not build computers. I doubt this will have much effect on Apple.

it is a different space than the pc world was and Android being 'open' also changes things. android is getting muddied by all the oems dicking with the os and 'improving' it.
with this purchase google gets a reference for android that remains clear (it was the htc and then it became the samsung?? just crazy jumping all over the place)
oem willl still be able to do what they want with android and people will be able to go with that or go with the reference model (moto). google has a lot of people enamored with the brand. if moto succeeds then i see it being rebranded as Google.
this, like the nokia deal, has potential to succeed if handled well and the patents are a BIG deal.
google now needs to hire the understudy of jon ive and continue to 'innovate'.
post #97 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumjuan View Post

Sorry, I do not see where this is bad move for Apple. Google does not indemnify their Android customers so I don't see how this helps HTC. With the Motorola suit against Apple it is still mutually assured destruction. Apple may even be slightly ahead due to all the FRAND patents being held by Motorola. Again, will Motorola/Google continue this suit against Apple?

Even if they did indemnify HTC and Samsung that still wouldn't protect them from attacks against their hardware designs or their extensions to Android. Even if Google is able to negotiate a full cross license with MS & Apple, that will still leave TouchWiz and Sense vulnerable.

Moto will definitely continue all its current suits, if they can win any injunctions then they are in a position to demand good cross license terms for Android.
post #98 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I think if either is barred from selling their products, both would be hurt equally.

You're kidding, right?

Hmmmm... let's think about this.

Apple is a hardware/os comapny. Any slowdown of it's os would cripple its business.

Google is a search company that sells ads. Killing Android completely would do what? Cripple its business... hardly. Just a dent... that's it. Apple and MS are not allowed to stop Google search from being an option on their OS.
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post #99 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Google has just made it so that Steve might have to find a couple of other manufacturers for iOS.

There was no other company other than MM that is so cheap, has such brand recognition and has such a large patent portfolio.

This well could be the move that will be looked upon in 5 years as the point where iOS became truly marginalized.

Dumb, dumb move on Apple's part imo... but we'll all know within two years if that's the case.

Except, as others have mentioned, Apple would, likely, have encountered difficulties with the Justice Department. When a leading US manufacturer of mobile phones buys another leading US manufacturer of mobile phones -- it raises anti-trust, monopoly flags!

There's a classic Supreme Court ruling where an acquisition was prevented because the combined entity would tend to be a monopoly... AIR, it was in the 50s or 60s, concerning 2 California supermarket chains: Von's and Shopping Bag -- and the combined entity would control 7% of the marketplace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vons
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post #100 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

You're kidding, right?

Hmmmm... let's think about this.

Apple is a hardware/os comapny. Any slowdown of it's os would cripple its business.

Google is a search company that sells ads. Killing Android completely would do what? Cripple its business... hardly. Just a dent... that's it. Apple and MS are not allowed to stop Google search from being an option on their OS.

To their overall businesses, yes, you are right, it would hurt Apple more. I was thinking more specifically to the platforms from both companies.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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...sometimes it's both
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post #101 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumjuan View Post

Sorry, I do not see where this is bad move for Apple. Google does not indemnify their Android customers so I don't see how this helps HTC. With the Motorola suit against Apple it is still mutually assured destruction. Apple may even be slightly ahead due to all the FRAND patents being held by Motorola. Again, will Motorola/Google continue this suit against Apple?

As I've said already... Google is a search company... they can drop Android tomorrow and live... can Apple drop iOS and still live.

Now Google will most likely have the ability to shake hands with Apple and call it a day... or Apple can continue to fight Android and have the possibility of Google asking for an injunction on Apple's products because of patents owned by MM.

Don't ever forget what I said above... Google is a search/ad company... Apple is the OS company.
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post #102 of 237
Good news for all:

Google/Moto: Better hardware and software integrated products (a vertical model)
Apple: Better competition will inspire even better products
Consumers: Better products, lower prices.
post #103 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Except, as others have mentioned, Apple would, likely, have encountered difficulties with the Justice Department. When a leading US manufacturer of mobile phones buys another leading US manufacturer of mobile phones -- it raises anti-trust, monopoly flags!

There's a classic Supreme Court ruling where an acquisition was prevented because the combined entity would tend to be a monopoly... AIR, it was in the 50s or 60s, concerning 2 California supermarket chains: Von's and Shopping Bag -- and the combined entity would control 7% of the marketplace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vons

I agree, Dick, that possibility existed. I always thought that Apple should have given up the Nortel patents and go after MM; thinking that the Nortel patent deal would have made it virtually impossible for Apple to acquire MM. I think that with the right deal, ie. MM having the right to continue using other OSes, it might have been possible.
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post #104 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

As I've said already... Google is a search company... they can drop Android tomorrow and live... can Apple drop iOS and still live.

Now Google will most likely have the ability to shake hands with Apple and call it a day... or Apple can continue to fight Android and have the possibility of Google asking for an injunction on Apple's products because of patents owned by MM.

Don't ever forget what I said above... Google is a search/ad company... Apple is the OS company.

But, also don't forget that Google created and has invested enormous amounts into Android for a reason. They see mobile as the future and killing that would have a huge impact on their business. Maybe not as large an immediate hit as Apple would take by losing iOS, but large nonetheless.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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post #105 of 237
lets hurt our partners, and spending big buck$$$
google is playing defensive, apple offensive apple system win??

http://macdailynews.com/2011/08/15/g...ng-a-disaster/
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post #106 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Except, as others have mentioned, Apple would, likely, have encountered difficulties with the Justice Department. When a leading US manufacturer of mobile phones buys another leading US manufacturer of mobile phones -- it raises anti-trust, monopoly flags!

Can we really describe Moto as a leading manufacturer of anything?

Combined their share would be below that of Samsung in the handset market, so most likely they could pass regulatory approval with a bit of effort, but I doubt Apple even considered it. Moto is just too much of a basket case to be worth the money for them.
post #107 of 237
mmi +56.93%
goog - 0.99%
aapl + 1.81%
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post #108 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

mmi +56.93%
goog - 0.99%
aapl + 1.81%

Huge purchases like this usually drive down the parent much more than this if investors see it as a bad deal. We'll know by tomorrow if this is viewed as a smart move by Google.
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post #109 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

I predict this move will squeeze out other Android licensees. There is a reason Microsoft did not build computers. I doubt this will have much effect on Apple.

3

And we all saw how successful they were when Microsoft started making MP3 Players and Phones.
post #110 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

But, also don't forget that Google created and has invested enormous amounts into Android for a reason. They see mobile as the future and killing that would have a huge impact on their business. Maybe not as large an immediate hit as Apple would take by losing iOS, but large nonetheless.

An impact, sure, but not huge... especially if your competitor is dead.
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post #111 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Bold move. I wonder what HTC and other Android using handset makers will think about this...


I'm sure Microsoft is looking at this somewhat fondly.

The 'Android' fragmentation has always hindered it in my opinion. One of the benefits going iPhone has been that I get quite a few choices for car/home stereo integration, charging integration, etc., etc.

I'm guessing HTC/Samsung would adopt whatever they come up with, but would think they'd always be just a 'step' behind so might even concentrate on Microsoft?

Yes. Things got a little more interesting. I'd hate to be a manufacturer. Wouldn't get much sleep!
post #112 of 237
I wonder what the exact IP arrangement is between Moto Mobility and Moto Solutions? If Moto Solutions has a permanent license to all those patents this could get very interesting.
post #113 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

If Apple has the patents to disrupt the Android business, then they have leverage. Same goes for Google and iOS and WP7. Eventually, with such large patent holdings on all sides, something has to give. Imagine if they all decided to avoid settlements and push everything through the courts and the ITC. They could all get injunctions against each other's sales and end up with all parties having all of their stock sitting on the dock.





The Duel
by Eugene Field

The gingham dog and the calico cat
Side by side on the table sat;
T'was half past twelve, and (what do you think!)
Nor one nor t'other had slept a wink!
The old Dutch clock and the Chinese plate
Appeared to know as sure as fate
There was going to be a terrible spat
(I wasn't there; I simply state
What was told to me by the Chinese plate!)

The gingham dog went "Bow-wow-wow!"
And the calico cat replied "Mee-ow!"
The air was littered, an hour or so,
With bits of gingham and calico,
While the old Dutch clock in the chimney-place
Up with its hands before its face,
For it always dreaded a family row!

(Now mind: I'm only telling you
What the old Dutch clock declares is true!)
The Chinese plate looked very blue,
And wailed, "Oh, dear! what shall we do!"
But the gingham dog and the calico cat
Wallowed this way and tumbled that,
Employing every tooth and claw
In the awfulest way you ever saw--
And oh! How the gingham and calico flew!
(Don't fancy I exaggerate--I got my news from the Chinese plate!)

Next morning, where the two had sat
They found no trace of dog or cat;
And some folks think unto this day
That burglars stole that pair away!
But the truth about that cat and pup
Is this: they ate each other up!
Now what do you really think of that!
(The old Dutch clock it told me so,
And that is how I came to know.)


http://www.xmission.com/~emailbox/gingham.htm

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post #114 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzpolice View Post

Doesn't Google already have enough non-performing divisions, or enough autonomous teams (like those working on Android vs. Chrome OS) that are seemingly in conflict with one another?

This expensive purchase might make good sense if it were part of some well-thought-out, long-term strategy. But it feels more like an impulsive response to the big recent patent deal. Such a move may look bold and decisive, but to me it seems to reflect a lack of corporate focus.

Google's governing strategic principle these days seems to be: Do everything. Jump into every conceivable business at the same time -- even money-losing ones -- and hope to somehow monetize it all via ad sales, which is the company's only meaningful profit center. So now Google, having bloated up from a search company to a search/advertising company, then a search/advertising/software company, then a search/advertising/software/social-networking company, is now about to become a search/advertising/software/social-networking/hardware company. How soon do they buy a wireless carrier, or an automobile company, or a chain of hotels?

Meanwhile Apple, myopic as it is, contents itself with a highly focused and integrated line of products and sucks up 2/3 of the industry's profits.

Great virgin post!

You can't teach an old pony new trick!
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post #115 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

it is a different space than the pc world was and Android being 'open' also changes things. android is getting muddied by all the oems dicking with the os and 'improving' it.
with this purchase google gets a reference for android that remains clear (it was the htc and then it became the samsung?? just crazy jumping all over the place)
oem willl still be able to do what they want with android and people will be able to go with that or go with the reference model (moto). google has a lot of people enamored with the brand. if moto succeeds then i see it being rebranded as Google.
this, like the nokia deal, has potential to succeed if handled well and the patents are a BIG deal.
google now needs to hire the understudy of jon ive and continue to 'innovate'.

What does " dicking with the os " mean...
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post #116 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

it is a different space than the pc world was and Android being 'open' also changes things. android is getting muddied by all the oems dicking with the os and 'improving' it.
with this purchase google gets a reference for android that remains clear (it was the htc and then it became the samsung?? just crazy jumping all over the place)
oem willl still be able to do what they want with android and people will be able to go with that or go with the reference model (moto). google has a lot of people enamored with the brand. if moto succeeds then i see it being rebranded as Google.
this, like the nokia deal, has potential to succeed if handled well and the patents are a BIG deal.
google now needs to hire the understudy of jon ive and continue to 'innovate'.

Your making a really confused argument here, its seems to me like you are blending together what's "good for Google," and "good for Android," in each statement. They are two separate things.

This move may or may not be good for Google, but at best it's a lateral move for Android and possibly a great big negative.

The perils of licensing to your competitors.

.
post #117 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

So much for open source.

What the heck does this have to do with open source?
post #118 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Fantastic news! Once this goes through Apple can start suing Google directly for their violations rather than the companies that ship their OS!

The reason Apple has avoided that in the past is they know Google punches above its weight. It has a lot more money and and now a lot more patents to defend itself.

This is decidedly not fantastic news for Apple. Google can now directly challenge Apple to either nullify the patents Apple is suing everyone over, or instigate a cold war where Apple will not want to trigger the wrath of the company holding 25,000 patents dating back 30 years from the company who invented the cell phone.
post #119 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I agree, Dick, that possibility existed. I always thought that Apple should have given up the Nortel patents and go after MM; thinking that the Nortel patent deal would have made it virtually impossible for Apple to acquire MM. I think that with the right deal, ie. MM having the right to continue using other OSes, it might have been possible.

I agree, but the time for that was 2005-2006... pre-iphone. Then, purchase of Motorola, the Mobile Division, or the Mobile IP would have been accepted as a natural expansion of Apple into new businesses,

Today, with the success/dominance of the iPhone and iPad, purchase of MMI would most likely be viewed as anti-competitive,

And Apple would not be immune to Justice stepping in -- even with the "Bozo of Ozone" on their board.
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post #120 of 237
Maybe Google along with it.

Nobody major is going to push an OS that's controlled by a major competitor, which Google had suddenly become to the major cellphone makers. They may keep develop products for it because of the large current user base, but they will start to put more emphasis in other options. Think you have slow Android update now, just imagine when the Cell phone makers become disinterested.

Nokia's decision doesn't look as bad as it was before today. They at least got the "don't use Android" part right.
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