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Google CEO: 'Anticompetitive' Apple, Microsoft forced Motorola deal - Page 4

post #121 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

30 years ago? Really? Wikipedia says "StarTAC was released on 3 January 1996".

He of course means the DynaTAC, from 1983
post #122 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Remember the golden rule of Google: when someone else does it, it is evil. When Google does it, it is not evil. Just like a religion.

Oh, I get it! Thanks. So it's kinda like if Apple sues for patents it's protecting their IP and investments. But if they're sued for patent infringement it was by a troll chasing the money. That kind of religion?
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post #123 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post



What will htc and samsung say about this???

They will smell Larry Page's farts and say they smell roses.
Microsoft will welcome them with open arms, assuming consumer desire for WP7 ever makes it out of the single-digit percentages.

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post #124 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Well, Apple did get into the phone business too after never being in the space.

But then again, they already did HARDWARE, so it was a more natural progression.

This comment makes no sense to me.

It's like a mirror of the statement from Apple (paraphrased) that "Google got into the phone business, Apple didn't get into search." The Apple statement is true, if you are trying to argue the reverse, you are incorrect.

When Apple was getting into the phone business, Google wasn't yet. Apple went first as a natural extension of their other businesses, Google jumped in quickly after with a quick copy of what Apple was doing.

Google is quite definitely the copyist here and quite definitively the one that's jumping into businesses that it doesn't normally play in in order to maintain what it feels is it's "rightful" place in the technology ecosystem. It's so almost exactly the same as Microsoft that it's kind of frightening IMO.

AS someone who's followed them from the beginning, I'm really disappointed in Google. I mean anyone could tell from the start that Gates and Balmer were morally bankrupt individuals. It wasn't a secret. Page and Brin always seemed like nice boys with good intentions and loudly proclaimed such to anyone who would listen. Google seemed like one of those very rare entities which is to say a company with a moral compass.

Now we know they aren't.
post #125 of 172
No they aren't. Perhaps you are thinking about Trademarks where that is arguably true. You have no affirmative duty to seek out and sue those using what you think is your patent. Many companies, including Apple, generally turn a blind eye to patent infringement. They just pull out the patents when being sued.

Prior to Android manufacturers blatantly copying Apple right down to the packaging, Apple rarely sued for patent infringement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Legally, they can't. That would either imply Apple does not infringe, or they're giving Apple a free license to use the patents in question which effectively nullifies them.

No matter what way Google's PR may spin it, Google can't just take the defence, they are legally required to seek out and litigate against entities who are violating on their patents.
post #126 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

It's too late for detente, because shots have already been fired. At some point the current litigation between Apple & Moto/Goog will be decided, and then will be in one of the following cases

Apple infringe on Moto, Google will be in a strong position to demand whatever cross licensing deal they like, along with royalties
Moto infringe on Apple, Apple will be able to shut Moto out of the US for whatever models infringe and force Google to redevelop or remove features to stop infringing
Both infringe the other - some sort of cross licensing deal will be needed.

You only need to shoot the bullet once if you get a good enough peace treaty the first time.

Shots have been fired over a relatively small number of patents. There are many more to go if either side is willing to escalate. You're right - the detente has been broken but what we have seen so far are mere skirmishes compared to the potential escalation. History says they won't go too far. But again, that's fine for Googorola. I don't know the Motorola bullet is enough to protect all Android licensees against both Apple and Microsoft. HTC is already paying MSFT a license fee. What will it do if/when Google's defense against Oracle caves in?
post #127 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Remember the golden rule of Google: when someone else does it, it is evil. When Google does it, it is not evil. Just like a religion.

A company that is treated like a religion...now where have I seen that before?

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post #128 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

here:
http://www.google.com/press/motorola/quotes/

Paraphrasing the full commentary sent to them by Larry to ensure a unified alliance response:

"We welcome the news of todays acquisition, which demonstrates that Google is deeply committed to defending Android, its partners, and the entire ecosystem. Today, we celebrate the first glorious victory in the Android Protection Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure open ideology where each handset may bloom, secure from the pests purveying closed and proprietary systems. Our Androidification of handsets is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one OS, with one alliance, one ad-revenue generating search engine, one cause. Our enemies shall sue themselves to death, and we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail!"

Closed is the new Open. Anti-competitive is the new defense. We shall sue to end suing. We shall acquire IP to prevent the acquisition of IP. We shall ensure equality by making our handsets more equal than the others - as a shining example of what conformity to our openness should look like.

Ahh.... Quotations directly from Chairman Larry's Little Red Book...

"All our cadres, whatever their rank, are servants of the people, and whatever we do is to serve the people. How then can we be reluctant to discard any of our bad traits?"
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post #129 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Shots have been fired over a relatively small number of patents.

What people don't seem to get is that it's not the number of patents that matter. Some patents are useless and others are very valuable. It's not simply a matter of counting patents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

The cable box business is part of Motorola Mobility and included in the purchase AFAIK.

Now there's a scary thought - that could account for much of the value. Google just bought their way into the living rooms of the majority of cable and Dish Network subscribers.
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post #130 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

A company that is treated like a religion...now where have I seen that before?

I dunno. There's a difference between companies that are treated like religions by others and companies that adopt words like "evil" to characterize what their corporate philosophies are supposedly not.

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post #131 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Shots have been fired over a relatively small number of patents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What people don't seem to get is that it's not the number of patents that matter. Some patents are useless and others are very valuable. It's not simply a matter of counting patents.

Pretty much what jragosta says. In general the fight will be reduced to the few strongest patents that either side holds because the final result will be a broad cross-licensing along deal along with royalties or complete exclusion of a product.

It's possible that we could have salvo after salvo, but it's unusual.
post #132 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What people don't seem to get is that it's not the number of patents that matter. Some patents are useless and others are very valuable. It's not simply a matter of counting patents.



Now there's a scary thought - that could account for much of the value. Google just bought their way into the living rooms of the majority of cable and Dish Network subscribers.

+1 THIS

I think the real story is, aside from getting all those patents, Google now has access to millions of living rooms now.

Comcast uses Motorola boxes for their cable set top boxes in California atm. I think this will continue on to the rest of the states.

I posted this on other thread, but I do believe its highly relevant to this discussion

post #133 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

Image

Introducing Goog! The Google Baby Monitor!

Monitor your baby for free from anywhere you are!

NOTE: Baby will be sent subliminal audio advertisements every five minutes.
post #134 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

+1 THIS

I think the real story is, aside from getting all those patents, Google now has access to millions of living rooms now.

Comcast uses Motorola boxes for their cable set top boxes in California atm. I think this will continue on to the rest of the states.
...

Pretty sure this isn't actually true. They didn't buy *all* of Motorola, just the mobile stuff.
post #135 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Pretty sure this isn't actually true. They didn't buy *all* of Motorola, just the mobile stuff.

Home IP Video and home digital video are both on their product list, that graphic is just for Moto mobility, Moto solutions has a very different product list.
post #136 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What people don't seem to get is that it's not the number of patents that matter. Some patents are useless and others are very valuable. It's not simply a matter of counting patents.



Now there's a scary thought - that could account for much of the value. Google just bought their way into the living rooms of the majority of cable and Dish Network subscribers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

+1 THIS

I think the real story is, aside from getting all those patents, Google now has access to millions of living rooms now.

Comcast uses Motorola boxes for their cable set top boxes in California atm. I think this will continue on to the rest of the states.

I posted this on other thread, but I do believe its highly relevant to this discussion


This could be very scary....

Didn't ComCast/NBC win a recent bid for some of the recently freed-up Broadcast spectrum? AIR, Google worked with, or supported Comcast in this effort -- and in re Net Neutrality (With preferential treatment for the participants).

Aren't more spectrum auctions coming soon?
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post #137 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

So they buy up a competitor (anticompetitive), which gives them now first-class priority amongst Android licensees (anticompetitive), and they do it just for the patents (anticompetitive), and they say Apple and Microsoft are being anticompetitive?

Larry Paige is out of his league when it comes to running a major corporation. He should have stuck to Search Research.

This has Schmidt all over it.

Moto wanted Apple to buy it for years and if you think Apple would pass up on a gold mine of IP you're crazy.

Google got a mobile player knowing they will be locked out in the up coming auctions. They are not the next Microsoft or Apple. They over shot themselves.
post #138 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Larry Paige is out of his league when it comes to running a major corporation. He should have stuck to Search Research.

This has Schmidt all over it.

Moto wanted Apple to buy it for years and if you think Apple would pass up on a gold mine of IP you're crazy.

Google got a mobile player knowing they will be locked out in the up coming auctions. They are not the next Microsoft or Apple. They over shot themselves.

How will they be locked out if the auctions -- the money?

Do you have any current links as to what's in play?
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post #139 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by droideggs View Post

+1 THIS

I think the real story is, aside from getting all those patents, Google now has access to millions of living rooms now.

Comcast uses Motorola boxes for their cable set top boxes in California atm. I think this will continue on to the rest of the states.

I posted this on other thread, but I do believe its highly relevant to this discussion

interesting, but content is king and who sits on the board of disney?... let's see where the "content" licensing goes.
post #140 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How will they be locked out if the auctions -- the money?

Do you have any current links as to what's in play?

Google doesn't have the money to win the auctions. End of story.

They bought a large portion of archaic IP with the hopes of the 7,500 filed patents pending will venture them protection.
post #141 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

This has Schmidt all over it.



Ba-dum-tish
post #142 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Google doesn't have the money to win the auctions. End of story.

They bought a large portion of archaic IP with the hopes of the 7,500 filed patents pending will venture them protection.

So wait, you think Google didn't have the money to win the Nortel auction, but it does have the money to spend three times as much on Moto? If it can afford 12 billion for Moto why didn't it bid 5 billion for Nortel? Only plausible reason is because it believes that Moto is worth 12 billion and that Nortel wasn't worth 5 billion.

Saying that Google didn't have the money to bid higher on Nortel immediately after they just bid far more for another firm is kinda
post #143 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post

interesting, but content is king and who sits on the board of disney?... let's see where the "content" licensing goes.

Agreed, Content is King.

But the Apple - Disney connection hasn't delivered much, if anything, beyond ABC and Disney.

As I read it, Comcast has some existing deals for pretty powerful content that it can deliver to iPads through their STBs.

I think there as a vast, untapped market for a personal TV within the home -- with a Tablet as the delivery vehicle.

I mean that each family member, of TV-viewing age, has his own Tablet.

In our household of 2 adults and 3 children we have 6 iPads -- only 3 have cell radios.
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post #144 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Google doesn't have the money to win the auctions. End of story.

They bought a large portion of archaic IP with the hopes of the 7,500 filed patents pending will venture them protection.

What about a consortium of say, Google, Comcast and Sony or Sammy? (I don't know how much cash is needed or available)....

A Comcast/Google hookup would bother me because of the way they to jerk around the FCC.


Do you think that Apple has been hoarding cash for the auctions?
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post #145 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Pretty sure this isn't actually true. They didn't buy *all* of Motorola, just the mobile stuff.

It's true they didn't buy Motorola Solutions. But that's a separate company now. They did buy all of Motorola Mobility, which I believe also sells set top boxes along with phones. So yeah, Google now has two feet in the door of the TV industry, one more entrenched than the other.
post #146 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee, WY View Post

Wasn't the StarTAC introduced more like 13-15 years ago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

30 years ago? Really? Wikipedia says "StarTAC was released on 3 January 1996".

Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

He of course means the DynaTAC, from 1983

Methinks the confusion is in Appleinsider's summary of Page's blog, not in Page's blog (or mind). If you read his blog, he did not state that the StarTac was released 30 years ago. He simply wrote that he loved his StarTac and he praised Motorola's innovation in the mobile industry, starting with the first phone 30 years ago. AI lumped the two sentiments together, hence giving the impression Page mixed up the two products.
post #147 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Well, Apple did get into the phone business too after never being in the space.

But then again, they already did HARDWARE, so it was a more natural progression.

Apple's primary business is making great consumer devices. Google's primary business is invading our lives wherever they can by offering "free services" (that often happens to include IP that they don't own). Then selling our souls to their real customers, the advertisers.

Google looks at all of us as food for their advertisers and nothing more. They'll continue to support the Android platform tooth and nail. Google wants to keep their greasy fingers in as many pies as possible more than selling hardware. They'd kill Moto Mobility off rather than alienate the other handset makers.

I used to really like Google as a company, but they have grown into one ugly, evil beast.
post #148 of 172
Since Google had such suckcess with its G1 phone, do they really think they can rebrand a Google phone that the carriers will want to carry? Do they really want to compete with HTC, MS-Nokia, HP, and Apple on handset profits? Plus, they don't have a retail store strategy, so they must be buying Moto to get the patents after all.
post #149 of 172
Interesting that some folks here believe the Motorola IP portfolio is archaic and confers no advantage to Google.

So, once again, people who have time to frequent this forum think of themselves as smarter and more knowledgeable than Google's engineers, managers and lawyers. How many multi-billion startups have you all created? What have you built that is equivalent to Google search, Android, Gmail, etc.?
How many thousands of the Motorola patents have you all analyzed thoroughly to come to such an insightful conclusion?

Fascinating.
post #150 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Since Google had such suckcess with its G1 phone, do they really think they can rebrand a Google phone that the carriers will want to carry? Do they really want to compete with HTC, MS-Nokia, HP, and Apple on handset profits? Plus, they don't have a retail store strategy, so they must be buying Moto to get the patents after all.

this isn't going to happen.

Its not in Google's interest to prop up Motorola at the expense of Google's existing partnerships with HTC, Samsung, LG, etc.

It will be business as usual, except now it will be MUCH harder to sue any Android handset maker.

I think its a two edged sword. Buying those patents, as well as Google getting into the Set Top Box business from Motorola.
post #151 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Interesting that some folks here believe the Motorola IP portfolio is archaic and confers no advantage to Google.

So, once again, people who have time to frequent this forum think of themselves as smarter and more knowledgeable than Google's engineers, managers and lawyers. How many multi-billion startups have you all created? What have you built that is equivalent to Google search, Android, Gmail, etc.?
How many thousands of the Motorola patents have you all analyzed thoroughly to come to such an insightful conclusion?

Fascinating.

I've just worked for several and I know from inside Apple myself what we thought of Moto's assets.
post #152 of 172
Motorola mobility is the mobile handset division which was spun off by Motorola on the 4th of January this year and does not include any of their other consumer devices or cable modems etc.
post #153 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Interesting that some folks here believe the Motorola IP portfolio is archaic and confers no advantage to Google.

So, once again, people who have time to frequent this forum think of themselves as smarter and more knowledgeable than Google's engineers, managers and lawyers. How many multi-billion startups have you all created? What have you built that is equivalent to Google search, Android, Gmail, etc.?
How many thousands of the Motorola patents have you all analyzed thoroughly to come to such an insightful conclusion?

Fascinating.

Yeah... It's not like Google, Apple, RIM, MS, Motorola, Sony, Samsung, etc.... have ever built or acquired products -- only abandon them later...

In Apple's case, some recent decisions for the products: Shake, Color, Final Cut Server, Final Cut Pro, XServe...
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post #154 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Legally, they can't. That would either imply Apple does not infringe, or they're giving Apple a free license to use the patents in question which effectively nullifies them.

No matter what way Google's PR may spin it, Google can't just take the defence, they are legally required to seek out and litigate against entities who are violating on their patents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Interesting that some folks here believe the Motorola IP portfolio is archaic and confers no advantage to Google.

So, once again, people who have time to frequent this forum think of themselves as smarter and more knowledgeable than Google's engineers, managers and lawyers. How many multi-billion startups have you all created? What have you built that is equivalent to Google search, Android, Gmail, etc.?
How many thousands of the Motorola patents have you all analyzed thoroughly to come to such an insightful conclusion?

Fascinating.

2, yes, and all of them. How many consumer product companies has Larry run?

To be clear. I don't think all of Motorola's portfolio is archaic. I think there are a lot of valid recent patents in it. I also think most of them are already licensed or in litigation by Apple and MS. This was a defense move. A defensive move to protect Android manufacuters from an increasingly desperate Motorola. I think it is a good move by Google.

It will be interesting to see if they can turn MMI around. I do not believe it has ever made a profit. Hopefully google will find some good executive talent to run the company once they take over. The current team seems pretty worthless.
post #155 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Motorola mobility is the mobile handset division which was spun off by Motorola on the 4th of January this year and does not include any of their other consumer devices or cable modems etc.

Got a link -- especially for the TV STBs?
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post #156 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Motorola mobility is the mobile handset division which was spun off by Motorola on the 4th of January this year and does not include any of their other consumer devices or cable modems etc.

how are you sure about this? valid source would be nice.
post #157 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Motorola mobility is the mobile handset division which was spun off by Motorola on the 4th of January this year and does not include any of their other consumer devices or cable modems etc.

Incorrect.

Their company overview states:

Motorola Mobility Holdings, Inc. provides technologies, products, and services for mobile and wire line digital communication, information, and entertainment applications. The company’s mobile devices portfolio includes an array of converged devices, including smartphones based on the Android operating system, as well as tablets and Bluetooth accessories. Its home portfolio comprises video, voice, and data solutions for service providers’ networks to the home, in the home, and beyond the home. The company also offers converged media experiences, such as Motorola Medios software suite that enables service providers to deliver content on devices. Motorola Mobility sells its products principally in the United States, China, Brazil, and Singapore. The company is based in Libertyville, Illinois. As of January 04, 2011, Motorola Mobility Holdings, Inc. (NYSE:MMI) operates independently of Motorola Solutions, Inc.

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...apId=129623445
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post #158 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Incorrect.

Their company overview states:

Motorola Mobility, Inc. provides technologies, products, and services for mobile and wire line digital communication, information, and entertainment applications. Its integrated products and platforms deliver multimedia content, such as video, voice, messaging, and Internet-based applications and services to various screens, including mobile devices, televisions, and personal computers. The companys Mobile Devices segment designs, manufactures, and sells a range of mobile devices, such as smartphones, feature phones, voice-centric phones, and media tablet devices. It also offers complementary mobile software, services, and accessories. This segment markets its products to mobile network operators and carriers, and consumers through direct sales, retailers, and distributors. Its Home segment provides interactive set-top boxes, end-to-end digital video and Internet Protocol Television distribution systems, broadband access infrastructure platforms, and related data and voice customer premises equipment to cable operators and wire line telecommunications service providers. The company was incorporated in 2007 and is based in Libertyville, Illinois. Motorola Mobility, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Motorola Mobility Holdings, Inc.

well there you have it.

Google definitely going into the STB business.

TV WARS BEGUN IT HAS
post #159 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What people don't seem to get is that it's not the number of patents that matter. Some patents are useless and others are very valuable. It's not simply a matter of counting patents.

I doubt many people don't get this; it's not a particularly difficult concept. At the same time, the number of patents is not a mere handful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Now there's a scary thought - that could account for much of the value. Google just bought their way into the living rooms of the majority of cable and Dish Network subscribers.

That's indeed potentially interesting. But Google may have the same problems as Apple in pushing future versions of GoogleTV - cable companies and content owners are a difficult lot to negotiate with.
post #160 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

2, yes, and all of them. How many consumer product companies has Larry run?

To be clear. I don't think all of Motorola's portfolio is archaic. I think there are a lot of valid recent patents in it. I also think most of them are already licensed or in litigation by Apple and MS. This was a defense move. A defensive move to protect Android manufacuters from an increasingly desperate Motorola. I think it is a good move by Google.

It will be interesting to see if they can turn MMI around. I do not believe it has ever made a profit. Hopefully google will find some good executive talent to run the company once they take over. The current team seems pretty worthless.

With all due respect, I think it's silly to label people you don't know as worthless. Does it take a truly worthy person to make such a claim against others? It's easy to make claims in an anonymous forum. But there is one irrefutable fact - those *worthless* Motorola people have designed and manufactured millions and millions of units of products people voluntarily hand over cash for. Can you point to something from your own design portfolio that has been sold in the same quantity? Something we all know?
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