or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Santa Monica Apple Store with glass roof given swift approval
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Santa Monica Apple Store with glass roof given swift approval

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
The Santa Monica Planning Commission approved Apple's plans for a new retail store with a giant glass roof on Wednesday without any discussion.

The major California project was included on the commission's Consent Calendar, which Peggy Clifford of Santa Monica Dispatch said is the first time she can remember a plan of that size being placed as an item of consent. Items on the Consent Calendar are approved all at once, unless a member of the commission asks for it to be pulled.

None of the members of the planning commission pulled Apple's project from the calendar, leaving it to be approved unanimously. The swiftness with which it was approved was something she said she had never seen before.

"I've always favored low key, but no key leaves a lot to be desired," Clifford wrote. "I wanted very much to hear the Commissioners talk about Apple's glass house... so very, very much. But, apparently, they were rendered speechless. Or had early dinner plans."

City staff provided the commission with a detailed report on the project, but none of the documentation specifically mentioned Apple. However, renderings of the project that circulated online on Wednesday showed an Apple Retail store with a giant curved glass ceiling.

In its report, city staff recommended the commission approve the project and go forward. Staff almost always endorses projects that are sent before the commission.



The proposed project would be located on the Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica, Calif., and would replace an existing three-story building that was home to Borders Bookstore. Plans for the 34-foot-high store call for a transparent glass ceiling.

Wednesday's approval from the Santa Monica Planning Commission is just one step in the process for the project. The design for Apple's new retail store must also receive approval from the city's Architectural Review Board.

Apple reportedly plans to encourage its employees at the store to use alternative transportation to get to work, offering a $100-per-month subsidy toward public transportation fares, as well as $20-per-month bicycle reimbursement. Bicycle parking is also planned for inclusion in the basement level.



The new store would be yet another Apple location to feature curved glass. The design at the proposed Santa Monica site is similar to Apple's store in New York's Upper West Side, which opened in 2009.

Apple also has a megastore in Shanghai, China, where the entrance is a giant glass cylinder, also featuring curved glass. And curved panes of glass will also be a defining feature of Apple's so-called "spaceship" corporate headquarters, a mega-campus designed in a circular shape planned to open in Cupertino, Calif., in 2015.
post #2 of 34
Wasn't there a discussion recently about the rubber stamping of building permits? This story tells me that they sure don't make it too hard for Apple to get approved.
na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #3 of 34
The Third Street Promenade is very important to the Santa Monica economy. The Apple store is always packed with people. As long as the building met city and state building codes, I'm sure it wasn't a difficult choice to make.
post #4 of 34
"$100-per-month subsidy toward public transportation fares, as well as $20-per-month bicycle reimbursement." - 10 years ago when I worked at a .com on the 3rd street promenade it was nearly $200/month per employee for monthly parking. Apple is saving themselves money by not paying that and offering these subsidies. But it makes them look Eco-friendly to make sure everyone knows about their environmental plan. Too funny. Apple marketing at work!
post #5 of 34
What the????? This is simply a BORING design. It is almost as though the Apple architects have given up and decided to just start making everything as stale and "clean" as possible. Its almost as though they are basing the architecture on the industrial design of the products. Architecture should never take the design cues from Products, and viceee verseee.

This building has no asthetic appeal at all and looks to me like a glass quonset hut. And with all this focus on being green, it doesnt make much sense to me to put a glass roof on anything.How does this affect the cooling costs? Apple needs to take some chances and make a few of the stores more iconic in terms of architecture. This is just boring. Boring, Sydney, Boring.

They should have an open competition for architects to design a flagship store. Maybe then we will see something interesting.
post #6 of 34
I posted this else where.
Eric Schmidt
"This new Apple Retail Store creates an unfair competition toward Android and is another example of city officials and Apple ganging up in an anti-competitive manner to keep Android from succeeding. We plan to fight stores that limit users choice by not offering a full range of hardware from multiple vendors and appeal this decision to the US DOJ for resolution. Google is deeply committed to fair and open competition."
post #7 of 34
1) I suppose they'll have some employees on the roof daily to remove debris and squeegee.

2) Nothing makes a product look better than natural light. The fluorescent lights in most stores might be inexpensive but they wash out the colours. This is why Apple, focused on energy efficiency still uses halogen lights in their stores to mimic natural wavelengths.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smartin684 View Post

What the????? This is simply a BORING design. It is almost as though the Apple architects have given up and decided to just start making everything as stale and "clean" as possible.

Because giant pieces of curved glass used a ceiling are easy to engineerĀ”
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #8 of 34
Did Apple buy all this curved glass from Cotsco or something and decide to place it on any project they could think of? Will we see a curved glass Macbook Pro or iPad 3 in 2012?
post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by stynkfysh View Post

"$100-per-month subsidy toward public transportation fares, as well as $20-per-month bicycle reimbursement." - 10 years ago when I worked at a .com on the 3rd street promenade it was nearly $200/month per employee for monthly parking. Apple is saving themselves money by not paying that and offering these subsidies. But it makes them look Eco-friendly to make sure everyone knows about their environmental plan. Too funny. Apple marketing at work!


You're comparing a private company with a retail environment so it's not a fair comparison.

Where is that .com company today? If they are not around, then that $200/month subsidy doesn't sound like such a viable idea. If I were a retail employee, that would be a very good benefit.
post #10 of 34
I once worked at a store with a glass ceiling over the entrance way. As the store had a Southern exposure, Customer Service at the front was always in direct sunshine. The computer screens were always washed out. It was almost impossible for them to do their jobs. They cut cardboard boxes to place around the monitors but it still wasn't enough. Reflected light still made it a bad situation. Finally they went with tent coverings under the skylight. But still light through the front doors made them keep the monitor hoods. By the way, the roof glass was blue, not clear.

Of course monitor screens are much better now and Apple employees can check out, or return product at different locations and angles. But how would you like to work or shop in direct sunlight all day long? The New York store has tall buildings around it and they don't have this problem.
post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1).... I suppose they'll have some employees on the roof daily to remove debris and squeegee....:

Pigeon poop could be a problem.
Cubist
Reply
Cubist
Reply
post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Santa Monica Planning Commission approved Apple's plans for a new retail store with a giant glass roof on Wednesday without any discussion.

Wow. This is almost unprecedented - I've seen people fight Santa Monica for months just to build a back deck on their house. Good for Apple, but stunning nonetheless.
post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post

Wow. This is almost unprecedented - I've seen people fight Santa Monica for months just to build a back deck on their house. Good for Apple, but stunning nonetheless.

When you have a business that brings in money from taxes it's easier to get attention. Any preferential treatment isn't' because it's Apple, it's because it's a profit center for the city.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Wasn't there a discussion recently about the rubber stamping of building permits? This story tells me that they sure don't make it too hard for Apple to get approved.

A few years ago Target wanted to build a three story store a couple of blocks from this one. It was to have several levels of underground parking. Their nearest store is 8 miles away and there are no competitors closer. They offered to allow use of the garage by shoppers on the Promenade. City said "no" because the store would create too much traffic, but they like Apple. They didn't care about the sales tax revenue or the 5% of sales for the local schools. They don't like destination big box stores. Santa Monica has 89k people and a two year $1.27B budget.
Cubist
Reply
Cubist
Reply
post #15 of 34
It does look very vulnerable to blue, glass-breaker Angry Bird attacks
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

Pigeon poop could be a problem.

Maybe they will use that 'anti-finger oil' patent on those glass panels so it will simply slide off to the sides, then some automated water hose system will flush the side gutters so the poop can wash out to the back.
post #17 of 34
That is what they do at 5th Ave cube. They have people constantly cleaning it everyday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I suppose they'll have some employees on the roof daily to remove debris and squeegee.
post #18 of 34
That's an entirely different situation from this Apple Store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

A few years ago Target wanted to build a three story store a couple of blocks from this one. It was to have several levels of underground parking. Their nearest store is 8 miles away and there are no competitors closer. They offered to allow use of the garage by shoppers on the Promenade. City said "no" because the store would create too much traffic, but they like Apple. They didn't care about the sales tax revenue or the 5% of sales for the local schools. They don't like destination big box stores. Santa Monica has 89k people and a two year $1.27B budget.
post #19 of 34
This is a spectacular and bold architectural statement. There is no doubt it will present some challenges that have been highlighted above (e.g. sun, pigeon poop, dirt, etc), but those should be relatively easy issues to take care of with time and experience. If nothing else, people will simply come down to see this beautiful building and, hopefully, stop in to purchase some product.

BTW, maintenance on a building like this: Let's say it costs $150,000 per year to maintain the glass roof (3 employees, full time, plus cleaning supplies). If it brings in $60M per year in revenue, especially given its iconic brand cachet and value, then I'd say it is a bargain by any measure.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReadAllNuz View Post

Maybe they will use that 'anti-finger oil' patent on those glass panels so it will simply slide off to the sides, then some automated water hose system will flush the side gutters so the poop can wash out to the back.

You don't "wash out to the back" in Santa Monica. Water is captured and processed.
Cubist
Reply
Cubist
Reply
post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by stynkfysh View Post

"$100-per-month subsidy toward public transportation fares, as well as $20-per-month bicycle reimbursement." - 10 years ago when I worked at a .com on the 3rd street promenade it was nearly $200/month per employee for monthly parking. Apple is saving themselves money by not paying that and offering these subsidies. But it makes them look Eco-friendly to make sure everyone knows about their environmental plan. Too funny. Apple marketing at work!

You are right, but I wonder if Apple is paying any employee parking? That would be interesting to find out. If you bicycle to work, you also get a $20/month tax credit from the federal government. Thats $40/mo to bicycle to work. The problem is that the store is in SM. I dont know of many retail employees that can afford to live within bicycle distance of the 3rd street, unless they are living in some hole in Venice. I sure hope they provide showers for the employees too! I used to bicycle to work from Culver City to West Hollywood/Sunset and I was glad I had a place to take a quick shower.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I suppose they'll have some employees on the roof daily to remove debris and squeegee.

2) Nothing makes a product look better than natural light. The fluorescent lights in most stores might be inexpensive but they wash out the colours. This is why Apple, focused on energy efficiency still uses halogen lights in their stores to mimic natural wavelengths.



Because giant pieces of curved glass used a ceiling are easy to engineerĀ”

Easier than a flat piece of steel??????
Yes, natural light is good as long as it is dispersed, similar to a photography soft box. Glaring full sun, not so good. They could do the same with strategically placed clerestory,fiber optic light pipes, or skylights.
post #23 of 34
How would any of that be the same as having a ceiling made entirely of glass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartin684 View Post

Easier than a flat piece of steel??????
Yes, natural light is good as long as it is dispersed, similar to a photography soft box. Glaring full sun, not so good. They could do the same with strategically placed clerestory,fiber optic light pipes, or skylights.
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartin684 View Post

Easier than a flat piece of steel??????
Yes, natural light is good as long as it is dispersed, similar to a photography soft box. Glaring full sun, not so good. They could do the same with strategically placed clerestory,fiber optic light pipes, or skylights.

I think he was joking about the "easier to engineer" part.

I promise you that when this store opens, I will check out your glare fears for you in person, assuming you don't live in the area yourself.

If you do live in the area, it would be prudent of you to see how it works with your own eyes, rather that paint yourself into a corner on this.

They do know what they are doing, it seems. Glass is a fantastic way for a building to connect with the environment. Always has been, but now it can be done on a larger scale, thanks to certain visionaries -- who incidentally have a lot of money, now that they've figured out how to sell great, helpful stuff to the whole world.
post #25 of 34
This is going to be a like a greenhouse and in turn costly in air conditioning. It would have been nice if they had lined the top of the roof with slats that reduce direct sunlight, but allow light in. Apple has the money so how about creating environmentally sound buildings. I am thinking something like this, but on the roof:

http://www.architectmagazine.com/Ima...m20-142513.jpg
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartin684 View Post

You are right, but I wonder if Apple is paying any employee parking? That would be interesting to find out. If you bicycle to work, you also get a $20/month tax credit from the federal government. Thats $40/mo to bicycle to work. The problem is that the store is in SM. I dont know of many retail employees that can afford to live within bicycle distance of the 3rd street, unless they are living in some hole in Venice. I sure hope they provide showers for the employees too! I used to bicycle to work from Culver City to West Hollywood/Sunset and I was glad I had a place to take a quick shower.

The new Expo line is under construction. The City of Santa Monica has successfully promoted the building of many affordable housing units.
Cubist
Reply
Cubist
Reply
post #27 of 34
It's rather symbollic that it's replacing the Borders store.
post #28 of 34
What about the existing Santa Monica store:

http://www.apple.com/retail/thirdstreetpromenade/

When you go to www.apple.com, there is a Store link in the bar at the top of the page. I imagine that people looking for Apple retail stores would first click on that link. But that link only shows the online store. I can't believe their Store page does not include a link to their retail stores.
post #29 of 34
I like the curved glass, but in the renderings the cross-beams seem a little ugly, to be honest. As for 3rd Street Promenade, speaking as a tourist, that's pretty much a key part of Santa Monica. Unless you want to just walk around and gawk at the houses. The pier and the beach is nice too of course, for foreigners who have had Baywatch burned into our brains by the idiot tube.

But I've rambled on enough this morning...
post #30 of 34
Anyone else notice there's no Apple logo sign in these renderings? Any precedent for that?

This store looks somewhat similar to the UWS store in NYC, which also has a glass roof. of course, the NYC store has tall buildings all around, although that may not make too much of a difference.

http://www.apple.com/retail/upperwestside/
My computer can beat up your computer.
Reply
My computer can beat up your computer.
Reply
post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mynamehere View Post

Anyone else notice there's no Apple logo sign in these renderings? Any precedent for that?

This store looks somewhat similar to the UWS store in NYC, which also has a glass roof. of course, the NYC store has tall buildings all around, although that may not make too much of a difference.

http://www.apple.com/retail/upperwestside/

Nice catch. I don't think there is and would expect the plans do call for an Apple logo unless the city forbids logos, which I find doubtful.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #32 of 34
deleted
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Probably so, and allowable because it may be that the city hasn't yet defined building codes to deal with glass roofs.

But think about it: the entire LA area is riddled with earthquake faults, and in most quakes Santa Monica fares worse than many other communities, even ones much closer to the epicenter, because the soils there are largely sandy silts.

Imagine what a glass roof does to a crowd of customers in a 7.0....

I don't follow you. There are skyscrapers with glass in earthquake, tornado, hurricane areas all over the world. Why is it okay for these massive building with potential body slicing shards to be installed hundreds of feet above the ground of crowded city streets but not okay for Apple to build in low structure? I'm no engineer but I imagine glass for structure to be of certain strength specifically incase of a natural disaster.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #34 of 34
deleted
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Santa Monica Apple Store with glass roof given swift approval