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post #161 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

That's the best thought so far. Oh boy would that be fun to watch! "Here google take your Android and shove it" by not making hardware HP can be as Microsoft is to those manufacturers, just the OS! I think you cracked it. So then we'd have Microsoft against HP fighting for what Apple leaves behind. Google then has to become like Apple as in hardware and Software ... That will be a disaster.

It doesn't matter who would own this. It still wouldn't sell. Why are people obsessing about selling this to some other hardware maker? Even while HP was working on new hardware, it wasn't believed it was doing well enough for others to adopt it. Now, it's dead.
post #162 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Actually, what's perfectly obvious is that they will simply license WebOS to anyone who wants to use it. They said as much months ago, even before the touchpad crashed and burned.

And now that it's proven its worth by crashing and burning, it's worth nothing, and no one will be interested. At least, not for phones and tablets.
post #163 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Do you really think there is no chance for WebOS?

I never had any hands on -- but from what I've read and seen, it is a better "Tablet OS" implementation than Android, QNX, WinMobile 7 (or whatever it's called).

What if HP offered free WebOS licenses for tablets -- with tie-in apps to support their business/cloud services? HP would get to offer "tablet solutions" for its services -- the licensees would get an entre into business sales.

... Or HP could just write iPad / iPhone apps.

I used a Pre for a few days. It was different, but nothing to write home about. It wasn't "discoverable" in the sense that iOS is, and the copy, Android, to a slightly less extent is.

I haven't played with the tablet, but when it shows up in the remainders bin for $49 I'll likely pick it up. Just read all of the reviews. Every one said that while it had promise, there were too many problems. HP quickly came out with an OS update that was supposed to clear up the hesitations and sluggishness, but only a little bit here and there. So HP said that they were going to up the CPU speed from 1.2 GHz to 1.5. I guess that won't happen now.

Not one reviewer said that they could recommend this over an iPad. Not one! In fact, most said that they couldn't recommend it at all yet. They will never get the chance now.

There is just no way that another company would be so dumb as to buy into a failed product. They will get tagged with that failure. It will become their failure.

Right now, both business and government are moving, in a big way, to the iPad. despite some people still wanting to think these things are just media devices, they are very strong in the creation and business markets. A number of industries are so strongly committing to the iPad, that when asked point blank if they will consider writing software for Android tablets, they say no. Getting them to commit to a failed OS would be almost impossible. Why would they?

Remember the old slogan? "it's the software, stupid!" Well, the iPad has all of the software in business. And a tablet is going to cost the same as the iPad anyway. So why should businesses buy something else? I can't think of a single reason.
post #164 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't feel sorry for them. I enjoy watching dumb bastards suffer, so I was actually over at precentral for a quick minute before to put a smile on my face.

Some of those people apparently live in an alternate reality and they were denying all the signs of doom up until the very end, much like Hitler must have felt in his bunker towards the end. If only the "fruit company" weren't so good at advertising. If only millions of clueless sheep didn't buy the fruit tablet. If only Best Buy sales people did a better job at selling.


Alright, who is going to do that YouTube video of Hitler's Reaction to HP and the WebOS... You already listed the script. Good job!
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post #165 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Wow! You actually remember Ling Tempco Vaught?

Yeah... Jimmy Ling was the wonder child of buying/selling companys.

AIR, he took his little company, and bought Chance-Vaught Aircraft... sliced/diced/parlayed that to where he bought a major steel company -- may have been US Steel.

Tempco was a big part of his empire -- I forget what they did -- insulation or something to do with chemicals.

Anyway, he'd leverage his little company worth $100 to buy a bigger company worth $1,000. Divide the big company into 3 parts and sell them each for $750 each, while retaining the cash -- at least, that's the way I remember it.

I think Ling would approach a company with lots of cash and say (essentially) "Lend me the money so I can buy you out"... and he'd convince then to do it
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post #166 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I used a Pre for a few days. It was different, but nothing to write home about. It wasn't "discoverable" in the sense that iOS is, and the copy, Android, to a slightly less extent is.

I haven't played with the tablet, but when it shows up in the remainders bin for $49 I'll likely pick it up. Just read all of the reviews. Every one said that while it had promise, there were too many problems. HP quickly came out with an OS update that was supposed to clear up the hesitations and sluggishness, but only a little bit here and there. So HP said that they were going to up the CPU speed from 1.2 GHz to 1.5. I guess that won't happen now.

Not one reviewer said that they could recommend this over an iPad. Not one! In fact, most said that they couldn't recommend it at all yet. They will never get the chance now.

There is just no way that another company would be so dumb as to buy into a failed product. They will get tagged with that failure. It will become their failure.

Right now, both business and government are moving, in a big way, to the iPad. despite some people still wanting to think these things are just media devices, they are very strong in the creation and business markets. A number of industries are so strongly committing to the iPad, that when asked point blank if they will consider writing software for Android tablets, they say no. Getting them to commit to a failed OS would be almost impossible. Why would they?

Remember the old slogan? "it's the software, stupid!" Well, the iPad has all of the software in business. And a tablet is going to cost the same as the iPad anyway. So why should businesses buy something else? I can't think of a single reason.

"Remember the old slogan? "it's the software, stupid!" Well, the iPad has all of the software in business. And a tablet is going to cost the same as the iPad anyway. So why should businesses buy something else? I can't think of a single reason."

Well... when you put it that way...

I would only add to potential customers (especially business, education, medical, government..) why wait -- your time is now?

... but where's the fun in that?
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post #167 of 254
Quote:
Hewlett Packard, the world's largest PC maker, has announced plans to spin off its PC business and scrap its recently acquired webOS smartphone and TouchPad tablet business to focus on software and services.

According to a report by Bloomberg, HP "has been aiming to lessen its dependence on lower-margin PCs, where growth has stalled as consumers flock to tablet-style computers like those made by Apple."


This is the kind of news that you should expect on April's Fools Day.


First of all, you don't give up the No. 1 position among computer builders.

Second, HP is known for its computers and printers, not the quality of its software which is, at best, mediocre.

Third, any company (like IBM, Dell, etc.) can offer its services and there is no need to divest itself of its hardware design and manufacturing component.

Fourth, to abandon computer hardware design and manufacturing goes against the tradition and almost 100 years of history at Hewlett Packard.

Fifth, computer hardware design and manufacturing is making money for Hewlett Packard. There is no need to abandon a successful business making money for a new venture.


Finally, computer hardware design and manufacturing is such an important part of Hewlett Packard that it cannot be abandonned by the Board of directors of Hewlett Packard unless they get approval by 2/3 of the shareholders of every class in value and number.

April's Fools Day comes early this year. Or it comes for a second time this year.


post #168 of 254
BRIEF-HP CEO: HP is at critical point in its existence

SAN FRANCISCO, Aug 18 (Reuters) - Hewlett Packard Co <HPQ.N>:
* CFO says took $0.05 charge to EPS due to poor demand for touchpad in addition
to the loss already expected
* CFO says would expect an even larger loss for webos in Q4 if business
continued in present form
* CFO says services revamp is 4-6 quarter journey, expects services margins to
be 12.5% during this time
* CFO says continues to be challenged by macro uncertainties that may impact
consumer, commercial businesses
* CFO says dropping long term financial target of a $7 EPS in 2014
* CFO says expect to take cash charge of about $1 billion for restructuring,
shutdown costs related to webos devices
* CEO: HP is at a critical point in its existence

((San Francisco Equities; tel: +415 677-3939))

((For more news about Hewlett Packard Co click here: [HPQ.N]))

HPQ after hours -15.86% for the day.
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post #169 of 254
post #170 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Ha!

You forgot the HP iPod

Yeah, well, that was then.
post #171 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah... Jimmy Ling was the wonder child of buying/selling companys.

AIR, he took his little company, and bought Chance-Vaught Aircraft... sliced/diced/parlayed that to where he bought a major steel company -- may have been US Steel.

Tempco was a big part of his empire -- I forget what they did -- insulation or something to do with chemicals.

Anyway, he'd leverage his little company worth $100 to buy a bigger company worth $1,000. Divide the big company into 3 parts and sell them each for $750 each, while retaining the cash -- at least, that's the way I remember it.

I think Ling would approach a company with lots of cash and say (essentially) "Lend me the money so I can buy you out"... and he'd convince then to do it

I was sorry when it went. I liked the guy. I also invested in the company when it was on the way up for a while.
post #172 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Give it time... Google will make an offer to HP for WebOS.

I would guess HTC would make the first move.
post #173 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodification View Post

Sweet!!! $100 Touchpads here we come!!!!!!

That's what I'm hoping for. At that price, I'd buy a couple of them. Woot? NewEgg? Where do you think they will be liquidated?
post #174 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

"Remember the old slogan? "it's the software, stupid!" Well, the iPad has all of the software in business. And a tablet is going to cost the same as the iPad anyway. So why should businesses buy something else? I can't think of a single reason."

Well... when you put it that way...

I would only add to potential customers (especially business, education, medical, government..) why wait -- your time is now?

... but where's the fun in that?

This is really very interesting because this new tablet segment is still so very new. The iPad hasn't been out for more than 18 months! 18 months!!!

Yet, after just three months, we were seeing business software appearing. Tim Cook expressed his own surprise that the tablet was taking off so well in business because of how conservative business normally is. Jobs said that iPad sales were being driven by sales to business. I agree.

When I was on line to buy my iPad2, all the people around me were buying it for their businesses! I was amazed by that. I'm more amazed that GE has written a sophisticated app for this and said that, nope, no current plans for anything else. I'm seeing that often.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...less/231300594

The Eu has standardized on the iPad for their legislators, and so has the Canadian Parliment.

Even the Pope is using it.
post #175 of 254
I'm shocked. I thought WebOS had a lot of potential. It does sound like they're doing an IBM. But low margin is low margin, who wants to be in that kind of business?
post #176 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhamad View Post

OK am I the only one that is going to point out that nowhere in this article does it mention a spin off? The headline probably was not written by the author, so that doesn't count. All the article says is that HP is considering strategic options for the PC division... and even that is a one-liner.

You need to read a story written by a responsible journalist if you want the rest of the story:

The HP board's authorization of "the exploration of strategic alternatives for its Personal Systems Group (PSG)" includes "a broad range of options that may include, among others, a full or partial separation of PSG from HP through a spin-off or other transaction."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391379,00.asp


DED's stuff is mostly vitriol. News ain't his forte. Pissing on his "enemies" to quiet the demons in his head is where he is at.
post #177 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rp2011 View Post

This is bad news for all of us. We need strong competition to drive innovation and competitive pricing. Hopefully the spun off HP can survive and thrive. Or be sold to capable hands.

This is the new (yawn) conventional wisdom.

Heard it before.

Us Mac heathens are perfectly happy with the 'innovation' and the 'competitive pricing' from Apple, thanks.
post #178 of 254
I am thinking out loud here.

With recent events it appears that the iPad may not get any meaningful competition for another 6-12 months (or longer).

Apple's CFO, at the last earnings call forecast lower gross margins for this quarter because of a product transition,

It doesn't look like that will be an iPad 3 with a Retina Display and/or an A6 CPU.

It doesn't appear that the iPhone 5 will be out in time to have any major downward effect on GPM.

iPods, Macs, AppleTV?

Nah!


What if Apple does this:

1) Bumps the RAM and SSD size on the iPad (especially the largest model)
2) Adds Thunderbolt and USB/FW access
3) replaces the various cell radio chips with a 3G/LTE world radio chip
4) FFF -- Furnishes a Fine Finder-like App
5) Robustifies iPad Pages, Numbers and Keynote bring them into line with iWork and Office
6) keeps the prices level the same except a new high-end model.

This would definite have a downward effect on GPM but would eliminate a lot of SKUs -- 2 WiFi only and WiFi + Cell in each Model.

It would, likely, push the date for meaningful competition to 18 months.

Nothing I've seen or read about comes close to iOS 5 on an iPad 2 (or even an iPad 1).

That could be game, set and match!
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post #179 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

This is the kind of news that you should expect on April's Fools Day.


First of all, you don't give up the No. 1 position among computer builders.

Second, HP is known for its computers and printers, not the quality of its software which is, at best, mediocre.

Third, any company (like IBM, Dell, etc.) can offer its services and there is no need to divest itself of its hardware design and manufacturing component.

Fourth, to abandon computer hardware design and manufacturing goes against the tradition and almost 100 years of history at Hewlett Packard.

Fifth, computer hardware design and manufacturing is making money for Hewlett Packard. There is no need to abandon a successful business making money for a new venture.


Finally, computer hardware design and manufacturing is such an important part of Hewlett Packard that it cannot be abandonned by the Board of directors of Hewlett Packard unless they get approval by 2/3 of the shareholders of every class in value and number.

April's Fools Day comes early this year. Or it comes for a second time this year.



I can't agree with this. They certainly can give that position up. Little in the way of profit, little in the way of growth for the future, and from the looks of it now, shrinkage.

HP has had a pretty good record of software. Back when, they had the best, and one of the most popular desktops (UI). they are an enterprise company that sells solutions like iBM. They're looking to buy another big software company.

IBM did exactly that. They divested themselves of their large, and still profitable PC division, and of their HDD division. They did this to be able to be platform neutral in many of their businesses. They even offer Apple products as part of that, and software for Apple products. HP is looking at this, and decided that it was the best way to go. These services and software products are much more profitable than their PC business.

So HP has been designing and making computers for 100 years? Wow! No wonder they turned SWs' idea for the Apple down. HP was founded in 1939, not quite 100 years yet.

It's barely making money for them, and with the contraction of the business this year, the writing is on the wall. Computer manufacturers are being squeezed. Sales are down, profits, if any are down, and it looks to be more of the same. The only one doing well there right now is Apple, as far as sales increases and profits are concerned.

I don't know why you are arguing against them doing it. It's a done deal.
post #180 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

HP is *NOT* killing WebOS!!! They are just spinning off the hardware side of it!! Nice misleading reporting, AI!

To call this crap misleading is being kind. I'll put it more plainly: It is just simply wrong. It has no support in fact. It is bullshit.

As such, it is irresponsible journalism.
post #181 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

You need to read a story written by a responsible journalist if you want the rest of the story:

The HP board's authorization of "the exploration of strategic alternatives for its Personal Systems Group (PSG)" includes "a broad range of options that may include, among others, a full or partial separation of PSG from HP through a spin-off or other transaction."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391379,00.asp


DED's stuff is mostly vitriol. News ain't his forte. Pissing on his "enemies" to quiet the demons in his head is where he is at.

What that business-speak means is that if they can get a high enough offer, they will sell the division. If they don't get a high enough offer, they will likely spin it off. They won't shut it down, because that would cost ten billion, and gain them nothing, short term.

But the fact that they stated this publicly is important. It puts everyone on notice to get their pencils sharp.
post #182 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

And they would keep WebOS without hardware to put it on... because?

Because they will still have a huge hardware business. Or they could license it to other hardware manufacturers. Or do something else.
post #183 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am thinking out loud here.

With recent events it appears that the iPad may not get any meaningful competition for another 6-12 months (or longer).

Apple's CFO, at the last earnings call forecast lower gross margins for this quarter because of a product transition,

It doesn't look like that will be an iPad 3 with a Retina Display and/or an A6 CPU.

It doesn't appear that the iPhone 5 will be out in time to have any major downward effect on GPM.

iPods, Macs, AppleTV?

Nah!


What if Apple does this:

1) Bumps the RAM and SSD size on the iPad (especially the largest model)
2) Adds Thunderbolt and USB/FW access
3) replaces the various cell radio chips with a 3G/LTE world radio chip
4) FFF -- Furnishes a Fine Finder-like App
5) Robustifies iPad Pages, Numbers and Keynote bring them into line with iWork and Office
6) keeps the prices level the same except a new high-end model.

This would definite have a downward effect on GPM but would eliminate a lot of SKUs -- 2 WiFi only and WiFi + Cell in each Model.

It would, likely, push the date for meaningful competition to 18 months.

Nothing I've seen or read about comes close to iOS 5 on an iPad 2 (or even an iPad 1).

That could be game, set and match!

I don't think we'll see anything this year on the iPad. I doubt very much if we'll see a separate USB port with iOS going over the air with iCloud. That moment has passed. Thunderbolt? I would love to see that, but I doubt it. Maybe in another year, when more devices are out for less money, say 2013. But it's just a hope.

When the new one comes out, next year, 3, 5 and 6 are likely.
post #184 of 254
i dunno about buying Autonomy, but HP is smart to spin off its PC business and pull the plug on WebOS hardware. yesterday i thought the DeadPad price would drop to $299, now it looks more like $199 - or less - to unload them all. hey, they'll be collector's items!

(and didja see Best Buy is now giving away Galaxy tabs if you buy a $1500 TV? folks, this is what is known as a market collapse. the non-iPad tablet market that is.)

HP is admitting they can't keep up with Apple and make much profit in the high end PC business anymore, and the alternative is the profitless race to the bottom commodity PC market. so just like IBM did wisely and successfully, they are getting out. maybe Asus or some other China up-and-comer will buy their PC business like Lenovo did from IBM.

HP says they still intend to develop and license WebOS, including providing support for more than just Qualcomm chips. and thanks to Google's panic shopping for Motorola their timing may be perfect, with every other OEM in the world except Nokia now looking very seriously for a good alternative to Android. so WebOS may yet live long and prosper.
post #185 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

To call this crap misleading is being kind. I'll put it more plainly: It is just simply wrong. It has no support in fact. It is bullshit.

As such, it is irresponsible journalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

Because they will still have a huge hardware business. Or they could license it to other hardware manufacturers. Or do something else.

No way. It's dead at HP. Whether they use it in printers or other devices where the UI is stripped out and most of the multitasking is discarded doesn't matter. That won't be WebOS.

Remember Darwin? That's OS X without the UI. It's not OS X, and it's used as an embedded OS for some applications. That's what Web OS would become.

You have to answer why other companies would want to license it for what it was intended; phones and tablets. This OS has proven itself to be a dud. What makes you think that another manufacturer could license this, and a year later come out with a product that anyone would care about, because it would take at least a year from when they sign the agreement.

There would be no software, and that's a major problem now. It would be a bigger problem in the beginning of 2013 when a new product came out.

Just saying that HP would license it out isn't enough for an argument. You have to give at least one good reason why that would work.
post #186 of 254
I'm shocked by this. I really thought HP was doing the right thing developing WebOS.
post #187 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is really very interesting because this new tablet segment is still so very new. The iPad hasn't been out for more than 18 months! 18 months!!!

Yet, after just three months, we were seeing business software appearing. Tim Cook expressed his own surprise that the tablet was taking off so well in business because of how conservative business normally is. Jobs said that iPad sales were being driven by sales to business. I agree.

When I was on line to buy my iPad2, all the people around me were buying it for their businesses! I was amazed by that. I'm more amazed that GE has written a sophisticated app for this and said that, nope, no current plans for anything else. I'm seeing that often.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...less/231300594

The Eu has standardized on the iPad for their legislators, and so has the Canadian Parliment.

Even the Pope is using it.


Interesting that your link included this pic:




With a stylus, no less... and the real problem was that it wouldn't fit in the pocket of a lab coat -- answer... bigger pocket!


To your list add:

Apple, Microsoft May Bid for 15 Million Turkish Tablets, AA Says

The weird thing is that you and I both watched the WinTel hegemony establish itself over a decade.

This is happening much faster -- call it tipping point, critical mass, or power curve, whatever.

I am getting the feeling if you're not established in the tablet game, today (especially this day/week/month) -- you never will be. The field is already littered with the bodies of also-rans, never-rans, scratches... the race may already be over!

And, there is no reason that Tim Cook and/or his manufacturing agents couldn't go tap-dancing across the globe introducing iPads and Manufacturing Jobs in many other countries (while removing their import tariffs).


Edit: 18 months is amazing! It took me 15 minutes to realize the power of the Apple ][ ('course Woz's younger brother, Mark, taught me the ropes -- he could type Integer BASIC faster than I can think). The Mac -- I was impressed, but it took much longer for me to see its future -- had trouble with that damn mouse and that click and point [sic[ thingie.. The iPad... Like someone said, Steve had me at [large screen] scrolling
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post #188 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No way. It's dead at HP. Whether they use it in printers or other devices where the UI is stripped out and most of the multitasking is discarded doesn't matter. That won't be WebOS.

Remember Darwin? That's OS X without the UI. It's not OS X, and it's used as an embedded OS for some applications. That's what Web OS would become.

You have to answer why other companies would want to license it for what it was intended; phones and tablets. This OS has proven itself to be a dud. What makes you think that another manufacturer could license this, and a year later come out with a product that anyone would care about, because it would take at least a year from when they sign the agreement.

There would be no software, and that's a major problem now. It would be a bigger problem in the beginning of 2013 when a new product came out.

Just saying that HP would license it out isn't enough for an argument. You have to give at least one good reason why that would work.


In the meeting, webOS GBU VP Stephen DeWitt made it clear that HP intends to continue to work on webOS and likely intends to license it. DeWitt was adamant, saying several times “We are not walking away from webOS.”

http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/18/h...usive-details/



And BTW, I never said " that HP would license it out". I was listing possibilities.
post #189 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


And, there is no reason that Tim Cook and/or his manufacturing agents couldn't go tap-dancing across the globe introducing iPads and Manufacturing Jobs in many other countries (while removing their import tariffs).

Are you suggesting that Apple would own the manufacturing capacity in those many other countries?

That would represent a huge change. Even if they could get Foxconn or some other contract manufacturer to expand to other countries, it would be a slow and difficult process and Apple would not give up their desire to have a high quality standard. I think Turkey might have to settle for manufacturing accessories if they want iPads for their kiddies.
post #190 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting that your link included this pic:




With a stylus, no less... and the real problem was that it wouldn't fit in the pocket of a lab coat -- answer... bigger pocket!


To your list add:

Apple, Microsoft May Bid for 15 Million Turkish Tablets, AA Says

The weird thing is that you and I both watched the WinTel hegemony establish itself over a decade.

This is happening much faster -- call it tipping point, critical mass, or power curve, whatever.

I am getting the feeling if you're not established in the tablet game, today (especially this day/week/month) -- you never will be. The field is already littered with the bodies of also-rans, never-rans, scratches... the race may already be over!

And, there is no reason that Tim Cook and/or his manufacturing agents couldn't go tap-dancing across the globe introducing iPads and Manufacturing Jobs in many other countries (while removing their import tariffs).


Edit: 18 months is amazing! It took me 15 minutes to realize the power of the Apple ][ ('course Woz's younger brother, Mark, taught me the ropes -- he could type Integer BASIC faster than I can think). The Mac -- I was impressed, but it took much longer for me to see its future -- had trouble with that damn mouse and that click and point [sic[ thingie.. The iPad... Like someone said, Steve had me at [large screen] scrolling

The 18 month thing is the most amazing. From something that few writers thought anyone would have a use for, much less a need for, it's already sold over 35 million units, assuming it sells as well this quarter as last. How long did it take to sell that many phones?
post #191 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

In the meeting, webOS GBU VP Stephen DeWitt made it clear that HP intends to continue to work on webOS and likely intends to license it. DeWitt was adamant, saying several times We are not walking away from webOS.

http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/18/h...usive-details/



And BTW, I never said " that HP would license it out". I was listing possibilities.

It doesn't matter that they say they want to license it. Of course they would say that. What matters is whether anyone would want to license it. If you have a product, you want to sell it, but people also have to want to buy it. People didn't want to buy WebOS products.

I know you were listing possibilities. I was just responding as to why it wouldn't work, and whether you could give a reason why it would, as you gave that as a possibility.
post #192 of 254
Wow, now this is a real bummer.

I apparently was THE guy in the whole country that bought one of these, and i've only had it about a week. I bought it during HP's recent 'sale'.

I'd like to say that i'm pretty unhappy with HP at the moment, and I have to wonder about the business logic of this move. They didn't sell enormous volumes, but they sold enough of these things that there are a couple hundred thousand people out there who are not going to be very happy right now. If they are much like me, they are currently putting this device back into its box in preparation to send it back to HP, and they are likely making plans to never purchase another HP product as long as they live.

I mean really... put these things on sale, announce the price cut is permanent because consumers showed pleasing amounts of interest, and then kill the whole product line 1 week later, and barely more than a month after introduction? Absolutely horrendous.

HP has created some ill will with this that isn't going away overnight.

Regarding the device itself, I just have to say that WebOS truly is very nice. It suffers at the hands of its software, and it is pretty clear that HP rushed it to market. But it is sad that HP is so short sighted in this. A second round of better hardware would have gone a long way toward erasing the negative commentary.

I've got an Amazon RMA and this thing is headed back to Amazon ASAP.

What a sad, short life for something so promising; the buffoons at HP ought to be slapped.
post #193 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Are you suggesting that Apple would own the manufacturing capacity in those many other countries?

That would represent a huge change. Even if they could get Foxconn or some other contract manufacturer to expand to other countries, it would be a slow and difficult process and Apple would not give up their desire to have a high quality standard. I think Turkey might have to settle for manufacturing accessories if they want iPads for their kiddies.

No, Apple would not own the manufacturing. I was suggesting something like what Foxconn is setting up for Brazil -- I am sure with Apple's approval.

It won't work in all countries or regions. But, if Apple/Foxconn can package the assembly process so that it can be done, profitably, anywhere, increases market penetration, creates jobs (and fanout of support jobs), reduces tariffs, reduces prices to consumers -- all of which increase sales.

Maybe, Governor Moonbeam can convince Foxconn to set up some assembly in California -- oh, there's that NIMBY thing.
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post #194 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The 18 month thing is the most amazing. From something that few writers thought anyone would have a use for, much less a use for, it's already sold over 35 million units, assuming it sells as well this quarter as last. How long did it take to sell that many phones?

Yeah, and a phone is a necessity, but an iPad is only a luxcessity.
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post #195 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No way. It's dead at HP. Whether they use it in printers or other devices where the UI is stripped out and most of the multitasking is discarded doesn't matter. That won't be WebOS.

Remember Darwin? That's OS X without the UI. It's not OS X, and it's used as an embedded OS for some applications. That's what Web OS would become.

You have to answer why other companies would want to license it for what it was intended; phones and tablets. This OS has proven itself to be a dud. What makes you think that another manufacturer could license this, and a year later come out with a product that anyone would care about, because it would take at least a year from when they sign the agreement.

There would be no software, and that's a major problem now. It would be a bigger problem in the beginning of 2013 when a new product came out.

Just saying that HP would license it out isn't enough for an argument. You have to give at least one good reason why that would work.

I agree - it is dead.

I happen to be one of the unfortunate people who have one of these devices (and an iPad), and I just have one quibble with what you've said: the OS is really quite nice, and in some ways more enjoyable to use than iOS. It has some features, like Synergy, which are really awesome, and it had a delightful notification system well before Apple bundled something similar into the as yet unreleased iOS 5.

WebOS, in my opinion, is a victim of corporate stupidity, not of its own failings. Bluntly, HP killed WebOS... by pairing it with a hardware offering that was terribly lack luster and by rushing it into the market before they had ironed out most of the bugs in version 3. They also didn't put as much effort into an ecosystem as they should have (although the HP App Catalog is much nicer than the Android store, and is almost as nice IMHO as the App Store) - I still con't quite understand who so many iOS competitors can't see how important this is. So, HP simply screwed up terrifically, and now they aren't willing to pair their mistake with an honest effort to correct - instead they are screwing over the consumers who bought these devices, their channel partners, etc. Brilliant business decision making - NOT.

I'm not sure I remember a single product released and then cancelled quite so quickly. I'll say this: it also has cancelled any future purchases of HP products from myself. I've already RMA'd this thing for its return flight to Amazon.

Very sad.
post #196 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

Wow, now this is a real bummer.

I apparently was THE guy in the whole country that bought one of these, and i've only had it about a week. I bought it during HP's recent 'sale'.

I'd like to say that i'm pretty unhappy with HP at the moment, and I have to wonder about the business logic of this move. They didn't sell enormous volumes, but they sold enough of these things that there are a couple hundred thousand people out there who are not going to be very happy right now. If they are much like me, they are currently putting this device back into its box in preparation to send it back to HP, and they are likely making plans to never purchase another HP product as long as they live.

I mean really... put these things on sale, announce the price cut is permanent because consumers showed pleasing amounts of interest, and then kill the whole product line 1 week later, and barely more than a month after introduction? Absolutely horrendous.

HP has created some ill will with this that isn't going away overnight.

Regarding the device itself, I just have to say that WebOS truly is very nice. It suffers at the hands of its software, and it is pretty clear that HP rushed it to market. But it is sad that HP is so short sighted in this. A second round of better hardware would have gone a long way toward erasing the negative commentary.

I've got an Amazon RMA and this thing is headed back to Amazon ASAP.

What a sad, short life for something so promising; the buffoons at HP ought to be slapped.

Apparently, they sold about 50,000 of these things while shipping as may as 500,000. That's a big loss. When taking R&D, manufacturing, sales and support costs into consideration, along with the fact that the new phones were just introduced to the UK with a big thud, as no one phone carrier is selling it, and even CarPhone Warehouse, the largest independent phone seller isn't carrying it, this must have cost them a very large amount of money.

When you Add the $1.2 billion Palm cost them to buy, I shudder at the amount of money thrown at this disaster. They had to get out. I'm sorry you got caught up in it.

But seriously, even for people who don't want to buy an Apple product, it's a very big risk right now to buy anything other than an iPad. It's better to wait and see how things shake out. I wouldn't be surprised if RIM announced the end of the Playbook line.

Maybe you can get your money back. If they have a return policy for some period of time like 7 to 14 days. Now that it's been discontinued, they may be more liberal about it if you hurry.
post #197 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post

Because they will still have a huge hardware business. Or they could license it to other hardware manufacturers. Or do something else.

My guess is that Samsung buys it and dumps Android.
post #198 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No, Apple would not own the manufacturing. I was suggesting something like what Foxconn is setting up for Brazil -- I am sure with Apple's approval.

It won't work in all countries or regions. But, if Apple/Foxconn can package the assembly process so that it can be done, profitably, anywhere, increases market penetration, creates jobs (and fanout of support jobs), reduces tariffs, reduces prices to consumers -- all of which increase sales.

Maybe, Governor Moonbeam can convince Foxconn to set up some assembly in California -- oh, there's that NIMBY thing.

All he has to do is offer to suspend minimum wage, occupational health and safety, and environmental laws and allow them to pay zero tax and they might consider it.

Edit: I think Foxconn just bought Cisco's set-top box plant in Juarez, so if they wanted to assemble iPads there, NAFTA would allow them to be imported into the US without tariff and worker and environmental protections are much weaker also. Maybe Jerry can try to get Foxconn execs a date with Linda Ronstadt or something.
post #199 of 254
I'm completely shocked to be honest. I thought the WebOS had legs and HP would find itself competing head on with Microsoft and Apple. This seems like a desparate measure at least on the WebOS front. I understand dropping the PC business though their system were pretty nice. Well, good luck with your new direction HP.

WebOS was supposed to be used in their printers too. What will they do with their printer division?
post #200 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No, Apple would not own the manufacturing. I was suggesting something like what Foxconn is setting up for Brazil -- I am sure with Apple's approval.

It won't work in all countries or regions. But, if Apple/Foxconn can package the assembly process so that it can be done, profitably, anywhere, increases market penetration, creates jobs (and fanout of support jobs), reduces tariffs, reduces prices to consumers -- all of which increase sales.

Maybe, Governor Moonbeam can convince Foxconn to set up some assembly in California -- oh, there's that NIMBY thing.

The CEO of Hon Hai said that he would consider manufacturing Apple products in the USA, but he was afraid of too many lawsuits. He didn't seem to think, that with their factories being so highly automated, their costs would be so much different than making them in China, and shipping them over.
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