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Apple, Microsoft and Intel to bid on 15 million unit tablet deal - Page 2

post #41 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This sounds insane to me. Like that stupid OLPC thing that ultimately did nothing.

Turkey is one of the poorest countries on earth despite being part of the European Union. They'd be better off spending the money shoring up education and human rights (and women's rights and gay rights), than wasting money on tablets for kids that don't have enough to eat.

Agreed. How is this the best use of educational funding in a poor country? I realize many applications are coming out with ipad editions but this is still a relatively new product and within a couple generations they may not be able to run newer programs designed for future ipad generations. Also in a school situation wouldn't theft and damage be huge issues with such a portable product?
post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Hence them wanting the product built in Turkey. This offer is really about two things. First, bringing jobs to the Country by promising to purchase 15 million units of the product. This is to provide incentive for a manufacturer to open a factory in Turkey that would build even more product after the government's purchase. Not sure that is going to work, but from Turkey's perspective it is worth trying. Second, as a side effect the offer is about giving children an important learning tool.

This really is a smart move on Turkey's behalf.

First of all, they have recognised tablet computers as the future for the classroom - post PC computing at a child's desk, not the odd computer in a classroom here or classroom there or centralised facility. Notch one up to Turkey.

Second, they would recognise themselves as potentially a very cost-effective doorway to either Europe in the west, Central Asia to the east or the Middle East to the south. Of the cost-effective countries available in the region, Turkey is probably one of the most stable (although they need to reconcile, peacefully, with the Kurds - personal opinion) and technically competent.

Apple would surely be given the land for a facility for free, they'd receive subsidised power, water and labour and probably other free infrastructure such as roads. Apple would instantly win the hearts and minds of 74 million people. Imagine, this is possibly all of their school aged children with the flow-on effect to households. Apple would benefit from the development of local programming expertise, resulting again in the winning of hearts and minds.

Turkey would benefit from access to the latest technology introduced by the company that does this best. They will do everything possible to provide favourable terms to the successful bidder.

Finally, building a device in a particular location, for a multi-national company, is quite a flexible concept. The batteries will still come from Japan (one source at least), the screens from China and so on. Case machining and system assembly would be quite high profile activities locally.

I believe that Apple will take this request quite seriously. I hope that for the sake of Turkish students, Apple get's the gig.
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post #43 of 64
The catch with Turkey is that the government prints and distributes textbooks free of charge to students until they are in college. So they will cut all costs associated with physical distribution and they will actually save money by giving out free tablets. (this will happen in other countries before it happens in the US due complicated copyright issues with +1000 publishers, cost sharing arrangments etc.)

but it wont be LCD panels because they are terrible to study long hours on but e-ink based solutions. you heard here first
post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This sounds insane to me. Like that stupid OLPC thing that ultimately did nothing.

Turkey is one of the poorest countries on earth despite being part of the European Union. They'd be better off spending the money shoring up education and human rights (and women's rights and gay rights), than wasting money on tablets for kids that don't have enough to eat.

You're completely wrong. I live in Turkey, currently staying in Los Angeles. We re not part of European Union and last time i checked we ve the 17th strongest economy in the world. Most of our people are not poor and we don't care about other people equal choices.

Where are u getting those ideas though...
post #45 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Never gonna happen.

Apple isn't going to build a factory in Turkey. They'll be lucky to get an Apple store.

Last time I checked we have more than one Apple Stores...
post #46 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcduman View Post

...but it wont be LCD panels because they are terrible to study long hours on but e-ink based solutions. you heard here first

Do you have a reference to studies that come to that conclusion. Such is not my experience. \
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post #47 of 64
Hello from Istanbul

I heard of this deal via local news and I hope that Apple gets the job. There's one issue though and it's the local distributor in Turkey. Unlike MS and Intel; Apple does not operate as "Apple Turkey" here, but via a local businuess partner called Bilkom.

This doesn't only mean that Apple products in Turkey are almost twice as expensive as in the US, it also means that the many new owners of iPads would probably have a hard time getting technical backup.

Being an iPad user myself I can see the value for educational institutions and hope that students don't end up with some MS/Intel wannabe tablets.
post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Hence them wanting the product built in Turkey. This offer is really about two things. First, bringing jobs to the Country by promising to purchase 15 million units of the product. This is to provide incentive for a manufacturer to open a factory in Turkey that would build even more product after the government's purchase. Not sure that is going to work, but from Turkey's perspective it is worth trying. Second, as a side effect the offer is about giving children an important learning tool.

These kinds of ideas rarely work out well in developing countries.

This offer might as well have been hatched by Tourism Turkey for PR.

I'm not hatin' on Turkey... Just sayin' how I see it.
post #49 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Good question. It probably wouldn't be worth the trouble for Apple.

All it would do is result in us seeing more headlines to the effect of "France: I want 15 million iPads.... but made in France," "India: I want 15 million iPads... but made in India," and so forth.

If the Turkish government is truly interested in its schoolchildren's welfare, it would be finding the least expensive + most effective tablet it can. And, at this point and by a long shot, there's only one.

Apple should (and probably will) tell them to take a hike.

The Turkish government is very wise in its decision to require the ASSEMBLY in Turkey - that way, not only it makes the purchase but also creates jobs (even in the short-term) for many Turks.
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

We're talking consumer electronics here. At a scale and quality of Apple iPads.

Clearly you know nothing about the quality control standards that apply to the production of military aircraft. And btw - if you total the parts and sub-assemblies that go into an F-16 X the number of aircraft produced you easily exceed 15 million.
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Agreed. How is this the best use of educational funding in a poor country? I realize many applications are coming out with ipad editions but this is still a relatively new product and within a couple generations they may not be able to run newer programs designed for future ipad generations. Also in a school situation wouldn't theft and damage be huge issues with such a portable product?

It could well SAVE them money - if they can negotiate good deals with the owners of the text books (or if, as I suspect, the text books are owned by the government).

Figure the cost of printing up all the text books for millions of students. It could well be that a sizable portion of the tablet's cost would be paid for simply by savings.

More importantly, it would mean that the books could be updated every year (again, assuming favorable licensing). You might no longer have students learning from WW II vintage books.

Furthermore, with the addition of WiFi in the schools, the students get access to the entire WWW for research purposes.

In the end, it may turn out that it isn't that great a use of funds, but your knee-jerk reaction is clearly premature.
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post #52 of 64
As we've seen, the iPad is very price competitive; Android manufacturers are cranking out 7" tablets that are priced the same as Apple's 10" device. I'm willing to bet that Apple has a lot more room to drop tablet prices than anyone else.
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ort View Post

Is it even possible for Apple to build the tablets in Turkey? I mean, I know it's possible, but why go through all the effort?

Turkey is next to this thing called "Europe".
post #54 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This sounds insane to me. Like that stupid OLPC thing that ultimately did nothing.

Turkey is one of the poorest countries on earth despite being part of the European Union. They'd be better off spending the money shoring up education and human rights (and women's rights and gay rights), than wasting money on tablets for kids that don't have enough to eat.

Change your screen name to Prof. Peabrain.
post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This sounds insane to me. Like that stupid OLPC thing that ultimately did nothing.

Turkey is one of the poorest countries on earth despite being part of the European Union. They'd be better off spending the money shoring up education and human rights (and women's rights and gay rights), than wasting money on tablets for kids that don't have enough to eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

Wow, such ignorance -- the Prof. bit in your name is just for a good laugh, yeah?

Turkey is not part of the European Union, though it is part of NATO. And Turkish women do have rights -- check out their university numbers and employment stats.

Economy wise, even Wikipedia knows better than you

There are some typical responses here, some possibly verging on xenophobia. What is so wrong with Turkey wanting to give their school children tablets as an aid to education? If this was one of the US States, or the UK, people would be jumping for joy. Turkey is just another business opportunity for the major players mentioned.

And, if you're all so flipping fired-up about human rights issues, how about giving up every thing you own that says "Made in China" -- you'd probably end up living in an empty house and your workplace would be sheer hell. And don't come out with the "we should manufacture goods in the USA" unless you're willing to pay $10K for a Mac and $5k for an iPad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atsysusa View Post

I thought I was immune to stupid comments but, "Turkey is one of the poorest countries in the world." and "Apple will never build a factory in Turkey." And those along similar lines. Implying that there is no manufacturing capacity in Turkey.

Just FYI - Turkey has a flourishing manufacturing sector that includes steel mills, ship building and heavy manufacturing.

This deal is modeled on Foreign Military Sales Off-Sets with which Turkey has broad experience. In fact Lockheed Martin manufactures F-16s in Turkey. [Just a little bit more complex than iPads.] a Lockheed executive told me that the Turkish line is the only zero-defect facility in Lockheed's experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

This really is a smart move on Turkey's behalf.

First of all, they have recognised tablet computers as the future for the classroom - post PC computing at a child's desk, not the odd computer in a classroom here or classroom there or centralised facility. Notch one up to Turkey.

Second, they would recognise themselves as potentially a very cost-effective doorway to either Europe in the west, Central Asia to the east or the Middle East to the south. Of the cost-effective countries available in the region, Turkey is probably one of the most stable (although they need to reconcile, peacefully, with the Kurds - personal opinion) and technically competent.

Apple would surely be given the land for a facility for free, they'd receive subsidised power, water and labour and probably other free infrastructure such as roads. Apple would instantly win the hearts and minds of 74 million people. Imagine, this is possibly all of their school aged children with the flow-on effect to households. Apple would benefit from the development of local programming expertise, resulting again in the winning of hearts and minds.

Turkey would benefit from access to the latest technology introduced by the company that does this best. They will do everything possible to provide favourable terms to the successful bidder.

Finally, building a device in a particular location, for a multi-national company, is quite a flexible concept. The batteries will still come from Japan (one source at least), the screens from China and so on. Case machining and system assembly would be quite high profile activities locally.

I believe that Apple will take this request quite seriously. I hope that for the sake of Turkish students, Apple get's the gig.

I notice that the intelligence and sanity of many of the posts - in this thread at least - are inversely proportional to the number of forum posts/poster. None of the above except the "professor" (who's obviously no prof of international economics) have more than a few hundred and most have less.

And I'm glad a few have set the record straight. Americans are actually a very provincial people who seem to happily embrace knowing little of the rest of the world around us. As if painting our faces and chests in red, white and blue and jumping drunkenly up and down yelling "We're #1!! We're #1!!" was a PhD dissertation on our virtues and not a demonstration of Being Clueless 101.

If HP - which outsources much offshore already - sells its PC biz to an Asian manufacturer a la IBM's handoff to Lenovo - that will basically leave Dell and Apple as the only personal computer/digital device makers of any size still nominally based in the US (nominally, since Apple's "Designed in California" products - if they still say that on the box [??] - are made mostly in Asia). Probably applies to a large extent to Dell as well, tho' I don't follow their organization.

And leaves us watching yet another quintessentially once American business move toward becoming only an echo in our own country. With little chance of catching up - given our shamefully poor (and getting poorer) record of math, science and engineering education in recent decades.

More and more of the world's economic and tech innovation is happening elsewhere - in countries we make fun of - as we spend our Fed-minted declining dollars playing videogames, watching CGI movies, consuming other overpriced fripperies, mandating massive unfunded bennies to decree life painless for all within our borders, with no notion in hell of how they'll be paid for, and generally being smug about our (past its prime) position in the world.

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post #56 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by soggybacon View Post

They're schoolchildren. Schoolchildren. And immediately we've got huge corporations fighting to "snatch them up."
Shouldn't the government evaluate what the best tablet choice is rather than just going with the highest bidder?

It's an order for 15 million tablets. if you look at it any other way you are not really in business.
post #57 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Turkey is next to this thing called "Europe".

Foxconn has been building massive manufacturing facilities in Turkey. In fact they just broke ground on another $100 million facility in 2010 and it is already operational making PCs. It would not be too unreasonable for them to produce 15 million ipads there. Provided retooling the plant did not exceed the cost / margin ratio for producing the iPads.
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by eswinson View Post

Foxconn has build massive manufacturing facilities in Turkey. In fact they just broke ground on another $100 million facility in 2010 and it is already operational making PCs. It would not be too unreasonable for them to produce 15 million ipads there. Provided retooling the plant did not exceed the cost / margin ratio for producing the iPads.

Is that true? Wow! Perhaps there is more to this request than meets the eye (I'm sure that there always is).

'Foxcon, Apple partner in manufacturing, has plants here in Turkey. Now, what deal can you give us?'

The Turkish government is no doubt aware of Apple's very, very desirable margin and would be keen to eat into it a little, at least in return for a captive market.

All the best.
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post #59 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

Wow, such ignorance -- the Prof. bit in your name is just for a good laugh, yeah?.

Should we call him "Sherman" instead ?

(If you don't understand that, then... well... i don't know.)


Asking for a "bid" is easy enough ... Apple just has to say, "Ok... will get you the tablets for $499 a piece, with no Turkish facilities... you can take it or leave it."
And since theirs (Apple's) is the only "real" tablet (based on the named vendors) Turkey has no choice other than doing without.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Turkey is next to this thing called "Europe".

Quote:
Originally Posted by eswinson View Post

Foxconn has been building massive manufacturing facilities in Turkey. In fact they just broke ground on another $100 million facility in 2010 and it is already operational making PCs. It would not be too unreasonable for them to produce 15 million ipads there. Provided retooling the plant did not exceed the cost / margin ratio for producing the iPads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Is that true? Wow! Perhaps there is more to this request than meets the eye (I'm sure that there always is).

'Foxcon, Apple partner in manufacturing, has plants here in Turkey. Now, what deal can you give us?'

The Turkish government is no doubt aware of Apple's very, very desirable margin and would be keen to eat into it a little, at least in return for a captive market.

All the best.

Yep's S'true. http://www.todayszaman.com/news-2183...in-turkey.html

Lean and hungry countries are busting ass while we're playin' around on X-Boxes, iPhones/Pads/Pods and facebook. And big money's flowing there (and there and there and there).

See the world as it is today - it's was never some playground America was granted dominion over in perpetuity after winning WWII, even if it felt like it, but a dynamic place where we're being supplanted by people more driven than we are anymore.

The value of the entire S&P 500 companies as a fraction of all the world's stock exchanges has dropped dramatically in the last few decades. Seriously.

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post #61 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Turkey is one of the poorest countries on earth despite being part of the European Union. They'd be better off spending the money shoring up education and human rights (and women's rights and gay rights), than wasting money on tablets for kids that don't have enough to eat.

You seem to confuse Turkey with its bankrupt neighbour Greece - Turkey is the 17th strongest economy of the world.

I bet you earned your professor title at the university of mum, down in your basement.
post #62 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmack View Post

I bet you earned your professor title at the university of mum, down in your basement.

I doubt there's room for a university in his basement... I think that's where he keeps the Way-Back machine.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #63 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmack View Post

You seem to confuse Turkey with its bankrupt neighbour Greece - Turkey is the 17th strongest economy of the world.

I bet you earned your professor title at the university of mum, down in your basement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

I doubt there's room for a university in his basement... I think that's where he keeps the Way-Back machine.

Time to stop now, In defence of the good Professor, he/she is typically quite insightful and posts often quite excellent thoughts and analysis. Like all of us from time to time, just spoke a too early this time, no harm meant for sure.

All the best.
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post #64 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

... In defence of the good Professor ... no harm meant for sure.


Oh, no harm meant at all (towards Prof. P.) ... I'm rather fond of his namesake ... good memories from Saturday mornings many, many years ago!
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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