HP outlines "difficult but necessary" decisions spurred by success of iPad - Page 2

ignorant. the web os didn't have any apps because they didnt release a timely sdk, and when they did it sucked in comparison to what android, iOS, or windows had. They needed to focus on hardware acceleration, canvas, svg, hell even flash, and then they'd have something developers could write to. An app that's a web page is just a web page. It's a fundamentally stupid play because even if you make it for web os, there's nothing locking the app to the platform.

If anyone these days is going to pay money for a computer they want it to work, no viruses, stable OS [not much out there that is more solid than UNIX] and a great end user experience that is not bogged down by garbage processes and apps. Killing XP support will be like taking the tourniquet off of a gaping wound. It will simply quicken the death of the patient.

Wow. Killed the Touchpad and selling the whole division. Talk about admitting defeat!

Rather than trying to compete with the iPad, why can't other companies try to innovate and redefine some other segment? Oh, yeah. They can't. They've just been copying each other and living off the whole PC thing.

Apple isn't crushing the competition. It's crushing itself.

This is what happens when in my opinion you hire a bunch of hacks that have more expertise in corporate mergers and spin offs than in engineering and science. hp was infamous for bleeding edge electrical engineering and technological advances. When they spun off Agilent and became just a computer company , they sold off the very core of hp that made the brand famous, the stuff that creates new products and new markets. I'm sure the quarterly earnings boost resulted in juicy over bonuses for those who crafted it, those who brokered the shares, and those who received the commissions, special cash out transactions and origination fees...... Alas like any bell curve would tell you, the PC business and by extension the wireless still borns that link their existence to the PC experience, these tablets will all eventually end up on internet auction sites or crated up and donated to some charitable cause somewhere on the planet. Doubling down on that strategy by trying to buy back intellectual property and innovation [tied to a losing paradigm] is a recipe for failure. Innovation in engineering is only grown organically, takes years to develop, and takes leadership and vision. It burns tons of cash, but what everyone loses site of, the R&D pays off in new markets and products in spades. hp would have better spent the money buying back Agilent. In my opinion the prognosis for Google and Motorola Mobile is no better. Its like watching the fate of Humpty Dumpty on the operating table.

Apple has grown organically, fosters innovation, and is smiling all the way to the top. LOL

What an effing moron, it dont give a flying f. about hp, and I am still pissed off with the idiocy of this guy.

So let me ask you something apotheker, how exactly did you plan when you bought palm, was it an impulse buy or something, cause it seems none of you fools made your calculations or bothered finding some sort of niche where at least you could make you of the (quite good) webos that your f.ing company didnt invent, cause you are used to making garbage....

what an idiot...

In thinking about this decision today, it's a big deal but not completely surprising. When a new CEO comes on the scene, all aspects of a company's operations are usually put up for review. One thing that HP's board of directors is probably pushing for is better profitability through margins, not sales. HP already has lots of sales. But the value to shareholders has become less and less than their competitors, IBM, Oracle, and these days, Apple.

In a way, today's news undoes the decisions of two of HP's controversial CEOs, Carly Fiorina and Mark Hurd. Fiorina bought Compaq for $25 billion nearly 10 years ago to the day in a move to make HP the world's largest PC vendor. The move succeeded and HP was number one in sales for a long time, staying ahead of Dell, IBM and other rivals. But as HP was doubling down on the PC strategy, others weren't sold. IBM sold off their storied PC business in 2004 to concentrate on services (a business IBM expanded on when it puchased PWC's consulting arm in 2002)...which turned out to be much more profitable and redefined IBM's role in the enterprise.

Mark Hurd came in and took more of the IBM approach by acquiring consulting giant EDS in 2008, as well as other smaller firms. But the last major act by Hurd before he was replaced was the Palm acquisition. With the high price ($1.3 billion) and the underperforming nature of the products in the brand, it was understandable that the purchase decision would be put up for review. That review shows that the HP WebOS business would hermorrage money in the short, medium, and probably long term. Assumptions they made last year about the "wide open" market for tablets have eveaporated into "competing for the scraps left by Apple". And putting WebOS in HP printers probably wasn't going to take enough business away from their competitors over the next five years....it was probably just a bonus perk for that division. Lastly, if you could tablets, HP isn't even the #1 PC vendor anymore...Apple is. That's gotta hurt.

So HP follows IBM into the realm of being a technology company driven by services profits and jettisoning the businesses that have low margins. Given the statements that HP made today, I think if someone came along and offered them 50 cents on the dollar for the WebOS business, they would take it....and they may take less. The PC business is pretty low margin without the server business alongside (and it's not going anywhere). So having it survive as a standalone business probably does not make a lot of sense. Getting it picked up by a competitor or partner makes a lot more sense..we'll see who really wants this business.

LOL let me see I could pretend to be a fly on the wall at the strategic marketing and future vision meeting. The PC market is flattening, Apple is stealing market share in the horizontal space, Aplle is growing market share in the verticals [scaling iPAD] and Large Enterprise solutions vendors IBM Oracle and SAP are poised to dominate your once highly profitable off shored Enterprise space.

Whats a BOXED IN thinker to do? I know they taught us in business 601 to take over a weaker competitor re badge their weak product with your BRAND, and sheeple will buy it because its hp. LoL

The problem is that no original thinkers exist any more, its more profitable to trade money and splinter corporations into components than to actually create something original. And they call it efficient use of capital.

I remember the running joke inside circles that Carly jumped Lucent after tanking her division. It wasnt long before Lucent's debacle was public. fortunately for Carly, I think the time span at hp was just long enough to insulate her in my opinion.

Though logic and reason often play no role in Steve Jobs' cherished beliefs, today's delicious news that HP is "parachuting" out of its "burning plane," is an opportunity that football quarterbacks call "the hole."

If Jobs was more committed to the Mac, he could use some of Apple's nearly $80 billion hoard of cash and launch a highly-visible Mac marketing campaign, similar to the commitment to the Mac when the "Get a Mac" television ad campaign was running with ever-fresh and hilarious scenarios that gave meaning to the term "PC Weenie" and made Mac unit sales soar, initially by 42% and then far more (like 61% in 2010). Apple sells 3 to 3 1/2 million Macs every 90 days (but what's a half-million give-or-take among friends? ) Macs now account for 20% of (traditional) computers sold.

To those who would counter, "That means Windows PCs account for the other 80%, so Mac unit sales represent a small minority still," I would "counter their counter" by pointing out that there aren't only two personal computer makers on the planet, like Apple, Inc. and Windows PC Incorporated. There are at least a dozen (probably far more -- I don't have the numbers) Windows PC companies, and Apple is just one company! Now doesn't 20% sound a little more impressive in context?

I would then expect this PC-Weenie-Mac-Bigot to be at a loss after this is pointed out, stare blankly with a vapid facial expression for a mutually uncomfortable amount of time, until he inevitebly shouts, "Macs suck!" (Which is about the extent of their argument.)

But Steve won't lift a finger to seek any sort of advantage for the Mac from this great HP news. The obvious beneficiary, though only fortuitously, will be Dell.

It could be Apple! Apple plays its cards very well, and is like Bugs Bunny to Microsoft and the PC maker's Elmer Fudd. (Analogy not original; borrowed....from...somewhere...)

I read an article not too long ago that had in its title "Tablet Makers Worried Apple Will 'iPod' the Tablet Market." Timely observation, if anything.

With today's HP News, Apple (though with the chronology reversed) could parlay this opportunity such that they could "Mac" the personal computer market just like the iPod and iPad did in their respective markets.

Come on! Give it a shot, Steve! Risk averse is a term I've never associated with you! You, who gave us the "risky" Bondi iMac, the G4 Cube, the Dalmation iMacs, the "lamp" flat screen iMac! It is said thatnif a company has zero failed products, they aren't trying hard enough ("pushing the envelope")

If you can afford to dabble in money-losing experiments like "Apple TV," you can surely afford to exploit this unexpected and rare opportunity by launching a highly-visible Mac marketing campaign (including the "necessary evil" of making sure everyone knows Macs run Windows -- even XP if you prefer!).

If you can afford to construct mega-million Apple Stores (I predict the next one will be inside one of The Pyramids), then you can afford to aggressively promote the Mac -- which, unlike with Apple TV, will prove a profitable venture -- at the cash register and the Mac App Store.

But as is so often the case with rare or once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, time is of the essence! Companies wanting to "fill the vacuum" HP left will have to do so with dispatch. By their nature, opportunities have no tolerance for dawdling. With apologies to Elvis (I can supply a last name for anyone who is unfamiliar with this person), "It's now or never..."

So will Steve/Apple "make hay" of this clear opportunity?

Will he, or won't he?

My prediction? He will.

(Oh, I forgot; he's in the process of killing the Mac. iOS is now "pc free" and a Mac is "just another device" now, to cite some direct quotes. We live in the "Post-pc Era" now. Such a far cry from the "Digital Hub" of just a few years ago. Ahhh, memories.)

I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks:

My prediction: He won't.

Very well put, as was your other post.

So Apple essentially killed HP.



We're not talking Acer-style "negative profit outlook" here, or whatever the f euphemism they use for "we suck."

We're talking full-on destruction of HPs business to the point where the entire operation needs to be reorganized, and a major part of it possibly auctioned off to like, Chinese interests or something.

LOL

I think HP should have bought Motorola Mobility -- then they could have combined for a WebOS HW future... That would have been a MUCH better fit than Motorola Mobility & Google...

note |nōt|
noun
1 a brief record of facts, topics, or thoughts, written down as an aid to memory: I'll make a note in my diary | Robyn arranged her notes on the lectern.
a short comment on or explanation of a word or passage in a book or article; an annotation: see note iv above.

Noting=recording of facts!

True but the good news is a ton of those XP users will get iPads rather than another bag of hurt and the news that HP is even throwing the towel will only help them decide.

hp should have bought Agilent. Clearly since the days of Carly Fiorina, hp has tied themselves to a miopic corporate vision. One based more to the opinion of wall street vision consultants than organically developed innovations.

and Mr Jobs snickers.

Meanwhile, in the real world...
HP CEO Mark Hurd bought Palm in April 2010 and was pushed out for it by the board amidst controversy. Apotheker, who had run SAP AG, was named HP's CEO and President September 2010. It was basically his job to can webOS if&when it failed, after the big $$ had already been spent by Hurd. HP will additionally lose relatively little on the subsequent actions, after unsold selloff, etc.

But yeah. What an effin' moron Lucille Ball was, invading Russia in 1812.

What IP?

Let Google or Microsoft squander their cash on HP or Palm's home-to-a-nest-of-moths "portfolio," and let them follow in in the very footprints of HP.

Apple will move light-years ahead during this distraction (actually, with or without this distraction).

Lol I was actually rooting for webos over android. I remember the megahertz myth keynote vid where he "proved" power pc was better than p4. A friend showed it to me after I was shocked to find out him Mac ran at 300mhz while mypc was pushing over 1 gig.

HP should name the spin-off Compaq. It already has brand recognition and I expect HP still have rights to the name.

I heard Mark Hurd with his focus on cost cutting and cost cutting alone was the guy who snuffed out HPs creative fires when he basically hounded the more imaginative and creative people out of the company.

Anyone in the know care to elucidate or rebut?

I think that would be a great idea. I've not touched it myself, but I've heard many good things about it.


How do you figure when Android is outselling iOS (and continuing its climb)? Motorola used to be the king of mobile; yeah okay so that was back in the analog days, but perhaps mated to a decent mobile platform they could do well. I'm betting they have better luck than the efforts of Nokia and Microsoft.

Since you put it that way, no, since iOS consists of the iPhone, the iPod Touch, and the iPad. Last time I looked, there were still more iOS devices out there than Android devices.

Okay, here's another thing: People, including business people, are buying iPads.

They're carrying around iPhones and iPads stuffed to the gills with ebooks, textbooks, manuals, and reams of PDF documents. They're walking around with constant 3G access to the Internet and to corporate intranets. There have apps specifically designed for accessing corporate dashboards and information systems (Roambi). There are Wyse and Citrix apps.

So -- it may just be me -- but does it strike ANYONE as it being a particularly good time to concentrate on PRINTERS???

Maybe the moto Xoom?

Outselling implies that that it's been sold as for money. They give the thing for free, often with the subsidized headset. Probably the reason Google bought moto.

I was flying with this young lady the other day who was a Mac user had an iPad and an android phone..... So I asked her, how come not an iPhone? She said, I wish, but money is tight and thought the iPad would be a better place to spend it. She said the android phone was free, and it does the job. Maybe when iPhone 5 comes out I can save enough to get it she said.... She was quite young.

Much of this "outselling" has to do with the economy rather than people's preference.

Ah, you were complimenting DED? Seriously?

I thought, based on your posts in the prior HP story, that you were being sarcastic.

If it was the former, please accept my apologies.

My point has nothing to do with Android and possible synergies (although I doubt the synergies will happen).

MMI is a small ($12.5B), low-margin (heck, negative margin), slow-moving, old business in a large (~$180B) very high-margin (~30%), fast-moving, new company. Reality will bite soon enough.

Touche. But my essential point is still valid, because I never said buying palm was a mistake, buying palm and then failing subsequently to make use of some of its very valuable intellectual property, THAT was the mistake, and that was Apotheke's mistake. Give 300 people from here palm and hp's clout, and I am sure we could have come up with a much better niche product, if not to compete with the ipad, then to at least find some respectable growth opportunities. Buying palm was NOT a mistake to me, doing f. all with it and just trying to piggyback apple's model (that works only for apple), because of corporate shortsightedness and just plain imbecility though was. There's nothing creative in putting together inferior hardware sticking webos on top and rushing it to market after paying off a few pundits to say a modicum of good things about the device, this any idiot can do (and did, and failed).

Accepted. My methods include lambasting where it is due and giving credit where it is due.

In this article, I saw little to no editorializing, and little to no statements of supposition as facts. DED has a lot of knowledge, but too often, his attitude is the main focus of his stories. I was impressed that he followed up his former crap piece, very quickly, with a real news story. I figured that if I complimented it, he might be encouraged and keep it up. He writes well, and he knows a lot, and he could be a good journalist.

I don't see the world in black and white. I like to have strong opinions, combined with an open mind, always looking for evidence for or against my current position. And I love it when I am just plain wrong - that's how new stuff gets learned. My goal is to know everything about everything before I die, but in the meantime, learning new stuff and adjusting my opinions is my greatest joy.

Great point. Not only is HP NOT selling tablets they will be concentrating on printers.

I like Dan's attitude a lot, it give character to what he writes, he's also very prolific so, to me, he's allowed an occasional mediocre article too, just my 2 cs of course.

Nah, HP killed HP by locking themselves in a shed of kindling and firewood. Apple just happened to pass by and flick a few sparks in their direction.

My thought, too. Printers? You mean those boxy jobs that sit on Walmart shelves and sell for 50 bucks? Who prints stuff anymore?

Printers are like DVDs ... for people that have yet to discover the internet.

In other news ... Dell invests in new sprinkler system ...

Very well put.

I never owned an HP calculator. They have these things now called the Internet. If I need computation done, I just posit my query to the Mechanical Turk and it magically returns the answer. Whatever did we do before the Mechanical Turk? Probably an HP calculator.

No, I weep not for HP's PC manufacturing business. Their PCs were nothing special. Just another box running Windows.

They didn't directly but here is what was said. We know what they meant.

"The tablet effect is real, and sales of the TouchPad are not meeting our expectations," Apotheker says, explaining the movement of consumers from PCs to tablets as one of the problems with the PC division. So H-P is exploring options for its unit that "may include separation through spinoff or other transactions."

Any reader of your post would say your essential point was Apotheker was a "effing' moron" and "idiot" for buying Palm without a plan.
BTW Palm cost Hurd $1.2 billion. Under Apthkr, HP's now known to be additionally writing-off $0.1 billion for the hardware. That is the only financial gamble A is responsible for.

Let's say HP had made a great SDK, fixed all TP's little glitches, made it light as the iPad, same bat life, etc.
At the cost, including opportunity cost of the additional delay, of much more than $0.1 bill. Much more.
Keep the same niche. It still would not have succeeded against the iPad.

The iPad is a fascinating toy for those with the money. A useful toy, but still a toy.
All much cheaper toys are necessarily crap.
For those w/$$ ±$100 is irrelevant, and they want the coolest functional toy, for about the same price --- and that is Apple's.
So unless HP could find a magic alternate, non-Apple competing, pad niche....

Go ahead. What alternate would you suggest? To recover $1.2 billion plus additional investment and margins.
That's very easy to say, and very hard to support.