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Ron Paul: Lets let the vulnerable live on charity so we can be at one wkth them. - Page 2

post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Really? That's funny, I thought the income tax was instituted in 1913. Unless you're saying that's when our country was founded?

You tell me when the following was written:

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; "

Now shut up.

And income tax specifically was introduced in 1862. Get your fucking facts straight.
post #42 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I've seen what happens to people who 'opt out' of paying taxes. It's not pretty.

I've opted out of paying US income tax. And I bet you anything I'm happier than you are. And I bet you anything my daughter will be happier than any children you might have.
post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I've opted out of paying US income tax. And I bet you anything I'm happier than you are. And I bet you anything my daughter will be happier than any children you might have.

So you have renounced your US citizenship or have never been a US citizen? Because, as I understand it, US citizens are required to pay income tax on all income worldwide regardless of current country of residence. This is unique to the US.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So you have renounced your US citizenship or have never been a US citizen?

Nope.
Quote:
Because, as I understand it, US citizens are required to pay income tax on all income worldwide regardless of current country of residence. This is unique to the US.

Nope. You're grossly misinformed if that's what you believe. Actually I'm surprised that you don't know something so basic.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=97130,00.html

Quote:
If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to an amount of your foreign earnings that is now adjusted for inflation ($91,400 for 2009, $91,500 for 2010, $92,900 for 2011). In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts.

I pay taxes in a territory that enjoys a tax treaty with the United States of America on 100% of my income, which is 100% earned in the same territory where I pay taxes. My total income is less than US$90,000 per year. Guess what? I don't have to pay any US taxes. I file every year, and I have no issues with the US government whatsoever. I am a citizen in good standing and I enjoy full rights as a citizen.

It amazes me that you didn't know about this.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You tell me when the following was written:

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; "

Now shut up.

And income tax specifically was introduced in 1862. Get your fucking facts straight.

The history, of course, is more complicated:

Quote:
In order to help pay for its war effort in the American Civil War, the United States government imposed its first personal income tax, on August 5, 1861, as part of the Revenue Act of 1861 (3% of all incomes over US $800; rescinded in 1872). Congress also enacted the Revenue Act of 1862, which levied a 3% tax on incomes above $600, rising to 5% for incomes above $10,000. Rates were raised in 1864. This income tax was repealed in 1872, but a new income tax statute was enacted as part of the 1894 Tariff Act.[13]
At that time, the United States Constitution specified that Congress could impose a "direct" tax only if the law apportioned that tax among the states according to each state's census population.[14]

In 1895, the United States Supreme Court ruled, in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co., that taxes on rents from real estate, on interest income from personal property and other income from personal property (which includes dividend income) were direct taxes on property and therefore had to be apportioned. Since apportionment of income taxes is impractical, the Pollock rulings had the effect of prohibiting a federal tax on income from property. Due to the political difficulties of taxing individual wages without taxing income from property, a federal income tax was impractical from the time of the Pollock decision until the time of ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment (below).

We should also note the income tax rates at those time. Not to mention how things re-started in 1913:

Quote:
Congress enacted an income tax in October 1913 as part of the Revenue Act of 1913, levying a 1% tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 (about $65K in today's dollars), with a 6% surtax on incomes above $500,000 (about $10M in today's dollars).

My God if the rates were like that now this conversation would be over with.

It's also interesting to note that previously income taxes were established to pay for wars, and that since the permanent income tax was established (1913) we've been more likely to go to war. Some might even say we're in a permanent state of war. It certainly seems like that for the past decade with no real end in sight.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Nope.

Nope. You're grossly misinformed if that's what you believe. Actually I'm surprised that you don't know something so basic.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=97130,00.html



I pay taxes in a territory that enjoys a tax treaty with the United States of America on 100% of my income, which is 100% earned in the same territory where I pay taxes. My total income is less than US$90,000 per year. Guess what? I don't have to pay any US taxes. I file every year, and I have no issues with the US government whatsoever. I am a citizen in good standing and I enjoy full rights as a citizen.

It amazes me that you didn't know about this.

I wasn't fully aware of the $90K exemption. Thanks for the clarification. I do also appreciate you advocacy for higher taxes in a place where you don't pay taxes.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #47 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You tell me when the following was written:

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; "

Now shut up.

And income tax specifically was introduced in 1862. Get your [expletive] facts straight.

Obviously you are not prepared to have a civil discussion about this. Let me know when you are. I'd be happy to participate.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #48 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Obviously you are not prepared to have a civil discussion about this. Let me know when you are. I'd be happy to participate.

Ah, ignore the facts that he presents (that are rather inconvenient truths for you) because you suddenly grew a thin skin and can't handle an f-bomb. Typical right-wing/religious tactic.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #49 of 51
Quite the thread, so far Hands. Kudos.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #50 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quite the thread, so far Hands. Kudos.

That must of really felt like a "Gotcha!" moment for you!


Regardless, here's more, and before you don't read it, keep this in mind- "USCENTCOM’s General Order 1A (now GO-1B) prohibits any and all proselytizing in its area of responsibility (AOR) and applies to civilians accompanying US troops as well as military personnel."



"DoD Funded Evangelical Christian Youth Programs

Service members are not the only ones targeted by evangelical Christian programs paid for with DoD contracts. Military children are also heavily targeted, both here in the U.S. and on bases overseas. Evangelizing the children of service members is one of the largest areas of spending.

The biggest ministry contracted by the DoD to target children is Military Community Youth Ministries (MCYM), whose mission statement is "Celebrate life with military teens, Introduce them to the Life-Giver, Jesus Christ, And help them become more like Him." MCYM has received $12,346,333 in DoD contracts since 2000. One of MCYM's tactics? Stalking "unchurched" military children by following their schools buses.

Ranking second is Cadence International, with over $2,671,603 in contracts since 2003. Cadence describes itself as "an evangelical mission agency dedicated to reaching the military communities of the United States and of the world with the Good News of Jesus Christ." Cadence not only targets young service members and military children for conversion to evangelical Christianity, but also actively tries to convert members of foreign militaries in the countries where they operate under DoD contracts.

In addition to military youth ministries like MYCM and Cadence, military children are also targeted by military base Religious Education Directors, also hired with DoD contracts. These ministries and Religious Education Directors employ tactics that can only be described as "stalking" children, with some DoD contracts even requiring that the contractors identify and target the "unchurched" children at non-religious events and activities and get them into chapel programs, and to supply reports naming these children by name."
~ http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152...ldiers/?page=1
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I do also appreciate you advocacy for higher taxes in a place where you don't pay taxes.

Are you really surprised? This is SOP for liberals. Where's John Kerry parking his yacht these days?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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