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Apple may introduce a radically different Mac product family by year's end - Page 5

post #161 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It would need the most amazing base leg thing in the history of computing. No one will ever use a vertical touchscreen and no one will buy an angled computer unless it can be put vertically for media.

something like this?

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...mac-touch.html
post #162 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwfrederick View Post

something like this?

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...mac-touch.html

Except usable, yes.

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“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #163 of 225
Anyway, it makes perfect sense to me that Apple would at least consider ARM. Steve Jobs said back in 2006 that they had been testing OS X on Intel since the day OS X came out. That means that they spent 5 years looking at it before making the switch, and did so when it made sense (when IBM was unable to deliver a lower voltage, cooler running version of its latest chips). Apple wasn't ready for Intel in 2001, nor was Intel ready with appropriate chips. But in 2006 when they were, Apple was ready to make the move. It might not be until 2016 or even later when ARM chips are capable of running PC/Mac software, but Apple ought to be ready for it.
post #164 of 225
post #165 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

One link.

One Baaaaaank! One Caaaaaaard!

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post #166 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I tried to push a button on the screen of my son-in-law's new MBA the other day, until he respectfully reminded me that it doesn't have a touch screen. Felt quite natural though. New MBA is a work of art!

Every iPhone I've bought I've handed off to my brothers and sisters and bought an iPhone 3GS for my mom for mothers day in 2010. Needless to say my MacBook pros screen is littered with small finger prints from my younger brother and niece because they've grown up around the iPhones! Lol
post #167 of 225
Showing that direct manipulation of the HI is both more attractive and more natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _BeAsTMaSteR_ View Post

... Needless to say my MacBook pros screen is littered with small finger prints from my younger brother and niece because they've grown up around the iPhones! Lol

They're lucky to have such a generous relative. Nice image..

Cheers!
post #168 of 225
almosty a poem

almost but not quite cricket

some cried out blue blue
55' TV

game over

our new family was found


i need a break



9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #169 of 225
Two words - smart TV.

I think it's clear that Apple is looking at ways to revolutionize the entertainment industry with user-friendly computing - it's about smart, intuitive lifestyle products first and high-end, nerdy computing requirements for high-end users (programmers, graphic artists, video editors etc.) second.

We are moving towards an age of service convergence where device manufacturers provide the connected device ecosystems, leaving service providers to figure out how to make the best use of those systems - we as consumers want all of our services on whatever device is nearest to us.

Imagine for example, if Apple truly opened up the Apple TV to devs within the iOS ecosystem. Hello OnLive app, hello Hulu app, hello iPlayer app, hello Spotify app - all of a sudden you have a box that can do everything that is constantly connected to your TV. What's great about this for Apple is that it doesn't have to deal with any of the headaches associated with providing TV or on-demand gaming services and all of the incumbent licensing agreements and server space required for that. The onus is on the publisher of the OnLive app or the iPlayer app to take care of that side of things.

I think we are going to see the first TV set-top box (or maybe even a TV with the box built in) that truly transcends the personal computer/tv divide - that sounds like a 'category defining experience' that Apple already has nine tenths of the pieces in place to bring to market.
post #170 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No expert here, just trying to learn...

Can't you get "good enough" depth of field by using filters and other effects in post?

Ouch! It's all about the lenses... Filters for colour and getting "film looks" exist but a top notch lens used wisely can bring you much further. That's why DSLR filmmaking erupted... Progressive scan video with more affordable lenses allows more regular folk to achieve some stunning cinematography.

Depth of field is particularly hard to "fake" unless you are willing to do a lot of rotoscoping... The natural depth of feel look from a lens is hard to emulate digitally because one thing computers are not that great at doing yet is being able to take a scene and gauge objects and layering. That's why some of the pseudo-3D done by separating layers instead of shooting with a real 3D camera look so bad... eg Alice in Wonderland 3D.
post #171 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No expert here, just trying to learn...

Can't you get "good enough" depth of field by using filters and other effects in post?

Dick - I work in post, so I can add my 2¢.

You can do this type of thing post-shoot but a) it takes an incredible amount of system render time, b) it's filled with trial and error, and c) it almost never looks anything like what would fool your eye into thinking it's the real thing.

Unless Peter Jackson and friends at WETA are doing it for you, forget it. In our realm, it's utterly unpractical and should be used as a "drastic measures" only approach.

IMO, if you need that "cinematic" look, JeffDM is right - the equivalent video gear is out of reach. For all the DSLR's weaknesses - mainly the agressive compression codecs and their inability to follow-focus - it's truly light years beyond anything else in it's price range.

DSLR's will revolutionize the industry much like the arrival of Digital Video did a decade ago. Indeed, they already are.

About 90% of the pieces I have worked on this year - including a dramatic feature, several music videos, a feature doc and many diverse television and web-based projects - have been at least partly shot on DSLRs. Last year, that number was less than 50%. More like 35-40%.

Astounding, really.

edit: I see nvidia2008 did an admirable breakdown of why the "fix it in post" approach is a non-starter while I was responding...
post #172 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Have a look at this... it's funny:

An open letter to Canon from a disgruntled DSLR owner

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Well that is why I have a real video camera. It takes reasonably good stills but not as good as my aging DSLR which I intend on replacing. If you want to shoot video, use a video camera. If you want to shoot stills, use a DSLR. The fact that they each claim to do both doesn't mean they are any good at the other medium for which they are not primarily designed.

Similarly I have Macs, Windows and Linux boxes and I always select the appropriate platform for the job at hand.

Well, it's a bit of a new medium, this DSLR filmmaking. You can see from the video linked to, it actually looks pretty damn good. They purposely kept letting it go in and out of focus (exaggerating one of the weaknesses of DLSRs - focus issues), but the look they achieved is really quite nice. Honestly if you saw that video whereby they kept the focus, did some stylistic editing, it would look quite "film-like".

But the reality check is important, eg. http://www.filmmakingwebinars.com/on...reality-check/ (not an endorsement, just highlighting one also needs to know what one is doing to get the best results)

At the end of the day you are taking something designed for stills to shoot long sequences of video.

But, from an aestethic perspective, I think high-end video cameras (particularly the older CCD-based ones) don't achieve that intimate, Lomo-esque feel of DSLR filmmaking (though of course many are discovering all kinds of different looks they can get, not just retro or "romantic" ones).

It's personal, it depends what you are trying to achieve, and it depends on your budget.

Like I said personally I've never thought much of CCD-based non-progressive video cameras... because, the moment you hit record, you're making "video"... nothing else, but... video.

Something like this for $2K sure is sweet:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...HDV_1080i.html

But it's still... video.

A Canon 5D Mark2 with some nice lenses will cost more but you can get some really nice filmmaking out of it. With the caveat of having to deal with the limitations of current DSLR filmmaking.

I'm just a punter, so it's just my take on things. But I can tell you the first time I saw HD video out of a Canon 5D Mark2 equipped with quality lenses it really blew my mind.

The last thing I will note is that as more people go to DSLR filmmaking you tend to recognise the "look" of it because the DSLR lenses are quite different from RED, Arri or Panavision lenses... so it does have that more "intimate" feel rather than "big cinema" feel. But people are probably working on this as we speak.
post #173 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by wienerdog View Post

edit: I see nvidia2008 did an admirable breakdown of why the "fix it in post" approach is a non-starter while I was responding...

Why thank you, coming from an expert like yourself. You've certainly clarified it further.

Can you comment on my post above on DSLR filmmaking as I see it?

Share more. Do you see Sony and Panasonic (eg. P2), for example, losing out a lot of ground to Canon, despite Canon's DSLR "shortcomings"?
post #174 of 225
> a dual screen macbook where 1 screen serves as a touch keyboard and/or second screen when paired with the bluethooth wireless apple keyboard

> Your iPad will serve as your keyboard (similar to adobe apps on the appstore) and the macbook becomes an iTablet

> A brain implant
post #175 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgsarch View Post

At which point Apple will own our music, files, browsing history, location data, and various other scary tidbits. NTM, Apple was recently the highest valued company on Earth. Yes, Earth .... Apple is growing into a daunting size and sitting on more cash than the U.S. Government. This is all coming from a 20 year Apple user and shareholder that has benefited greatly from their growth. I love them and appreciate what they have done but they're starting to frighten me a bit.

I'm not interested in iSkyNet. The day Apple goes 100% iCloud is the day I go 100% linux.

p.s.
hello! this is my first post! long-time lurker, macrumors regular.

Think it through...you are already on iskynet or Echelon or whatever you want to call it. Your bits are already easily quantifiable from however many zillion locations you go to online. It's a matter of signal to noise ratio. If you have something 'they' are interested in they will GET IT period. Your choice of OS won't help you so much. But if anybody is to have all my 'stuff' I'd feel better with Apple , at least they know what intellectual property is!
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #176 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazmacaz View Post

Two words - smart TV.

I think it's clear that Apple is looking at ways to revolutionize the entertainment industry with user-friendly computing - it's about smart, intuitive lifestyle products first and high-end, nerdy computing requirements for high-end users (programmers, graphic artists, video editors etc.) second.

We are moving towards an age of service convergence where device manufacturers provide the connected device ecosystems, leaving service providers to figure out how to make the best use of those systems - we as consumers want all of our services on whatever device is nearest to us.

Imagine for example, if Apple truly opened up the Apple TV to devs within the iOS ecosystem. Hello OnLive app, hello Hulu app, hello iPlayer app, hello Spotify app - all of a sudden you have a box that can do everything that is constantly connected to your TV. What's great about this for Apple is that it doesn't have to deal with any of the headaches associated with providing TV or on-demand gaming services and all of the incumbent licensing agreements and server space required for that. The onus is on the publisher of the OnLive app or the iPlayer app to take care of that side of things.

I think we are going to see the first TV set-top box (or maybe even a TV with the box built in) that truly transcends the personal computer/tv divide - that sounds like a 'category defining experience' that Apple already has nine tenths of the pieces in place to bring to market.

You could be onto it there.

Apple will leverage its strengths:

Superior hardware and experience in developing hardware
The best OS (OS X/iOS)
Fantastic ecosystem
Hands-off services (iCloud)
Name.

All the best.
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Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #177 of 225
Picture this (The next BIG thing):

You pull your iComp out of your pocket. You UNFOLD it, to the desired size, and begin using it, with fingertouch screen.

So, you want it, 2" x 4", that how much you unfold it, 4" x 8", unfold again, 8" x 16", you guessed it, unfold again.

OR, how about the same theme, yet, you ROLL out your iRoll computer onto a desktop, wall, picnic table, car hood fire it up, and let "Your Fingers to the Talking"!

Print this, or put it in the back of your memory bank, because you WILL come back to it someday soon, and say "How in hell did he know"? "How is this masked man"?


Skip
post #178 of 225
Ahhhhh, this is a good thread. Like old times.
post #179 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

In the last quarterly earnings calls, the Apple CFO referred to a major product transition in the September quarter, but people are assuming it is the iPhone 5.

Edit: maybe a tablet that's built in to a table, like the Microsoft one. A "desktop iPad"

I think you said it right, they know what Win8 will have and they're trying to come with something similar before MS does.
post #180 of 225
FWIW:

About two months ago, Apple had a Lion / iOS seminar at the college where I teach (Miami-Dade College; the largest college in the US with over 170, 000 students on 7 or 8 campuses in the Miami area. I couldn't resist that 'plug'; sorry)

After the seminar, I asked the Apple Rep and his assistant if Apple had plans to build a 'one size fits all' computer and additional modules to raise the ante.

He looked like the proverbial deer caught in the headlights. He thought for a moment and said he wasn't aware of any such project. His response was either a lie, or he didn't really know, or he suspected some such animal. I really didn't expect an actual answer, but I did expect a definitive "NO". He ended our conversation by walking away. That sort of told me that he knew something, but wasn't going to discuss it.
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post #181 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Ouch! It's all about the lenses... Filters for colour and getting "film looks" exist but a top notch lens used wisely can bring you much further. That's why DSLR filmmaking erupted... Progressive scan video with more affordable lenses allows more regular folk to achieve some stunning cinematography.

Depth of field is particularly hard to "fake" unless you are willing to do a lot of rotoscoping... The natural depth of feel look from a lens is hard to emulate digitally because one thing computers are not that great at doing yet is being able to take a scene and gauge objects and layering. That's why some of the pseudo-3D done by separating layers instead of shooting with a real 3D camera look so bad... eg Alice in Wonderland 3D.

Hmmm.....


I have a short clip of my grandson I shot 3 years ago -- playing goal keep in soccer.

It was shot with a Panny AVC-HD1, 12x Leica zoom, from about 25 yards.

In this particular clip he runs across the front of the net, behind players, scoops up the ball, then runs through players to the front of the box, where he punts the ball (he got an assist for a teammates goal at the other end).

I had always wanted to rotoscope this so he would be featured in full color running through other players in B&W or muted color.

I tried, a while back, using FCP 7 with the Silhouette roto plugin... but it was too tedious. The tweening does not work well on this particular clip because the motion is herky-jerky with arms and legs flailing everywhere.

When they came out in June, I bought Motion 5 and FCPX. With Motion 5, I rotoscoped shapes for the ball, head, torso, pants, left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg and the occasional parts of other players. The tweening was better, but still not good enough -- I roto'd every frame.

I am pretty happy with the results, considering no setup, live action, distance, talent of the cameraman and editor (me).

Since I have the rotoscoping already done, I think I'll spend a while and see if I can learn something about FOV -- and maybe improve the results.
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post #182 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by wienerdog View Post

Dick - I work in post, so I can add my 2¢.

You can do this type of thing post-shoot but a) it takes an incredible amount of system render time, b) it's filled with trial and error, and c) it almost never looks anything like what would fool your eye into thinking it's the real thing.

Unless Peter Jackson and friends at WETA are doing it for you, forget it. In our realm, it's utterly unpractical and should be used as a "drastic measures" only approach.

IMO, if you need that "cinematic" look, JeffDM is right - the equivalent video gear is out of reach. For all the DSLR's weaknesses - mainly the agressive compression codecs and their inability to follow-focus - it's truly light years beyond anything else in it's price range.

DSLR's will revolutionize the industry much like the arrival of Digital Video did a decade ago. Indeed, they already are.

About 90% of the pieces I have worked on this year - including a dramatic feature, several music videos, a feature doc and many diverse television and web-based projects - have been at least partly shot on DSLRs. Last year, that number was less than 50%. More like 35-40%.

Astounding, really.

edit: I see nvidia2008 did an admirable breakdown of why the "fix it in post" approach is a non-starter while I was responding...

Thanks for the advice! Some questions:

1) By the render times do you mean things like ray-tracing or just the standard render times we're used to with FCP 7 and the like.

2) Can you setup a camera to capture live action -- like zoom in on the quarterback, and follow the throw to the wide receiver?

3) Got any links (even names or search terms) to what I should strive for in "filming" or in post?

I am a techie, not a creative. Most of my stuff is ad hoc stuff of family -- my 16-year-old granddaughter has some talent in plot, storyboarding, filming and some post. We all want to learn.

Here's an example of the kind of sports action I want to enhance -- I am using a tripod and dead reckoning (no viewfinder), I can't zoom while filming, but the AVCHD is high enough that I can zoom in post.

Dish Punt Rewind (fcp2)

TIA

Dick
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post #183 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazmacaz View Post

Two words - smart TV.

I think it's clear that Apple is looking at ways to revolutionize the entertainment industry with user-friendly computing - it's about smart, intuitive lifestyle products first and high-end, nerdy computing requirements for high-end users (programmers, graphic artists, video editors etc.) second.

We are moving towards an age of service convergence where device manufacturers provide the connected device ecosystems, leaving service providers to figure out how to make the best use of those systems - we as consumers want all of our services on whatever device is nearest to us.

Imagine for example, if Apple truly opened up the Apple TV to devs within the iOS ecosystem. Hello OnLive app, hello Hulu app, hello iPlayer app, hello Spotify app - all of a sudden you have a box that can do everything that is constantly connected to your TV. What's great about this for Apple is that it doesn't have to deal with any of the headaches associated with providing TV or on-demand gaming services and all of the incumbent licensing agreements and server space required for that. The onus is on the publisher of the OnLive app or the iPlayer app to take care of that side of things.

I think we are going to see the first TV set-top box (or maybe even a TV with the box built in) that truly transcends the personal computer/tv divide - that sounds like a 'category defining experience' that Apple already has nine tenths of the pieces in place to bring to market.

BINGO!

Imagine a 55" iPad/iPhone. Developers create Apps for such a huge screen - but it's really just 1920x1080 (or whatever) - that work in combination with a native iPad/iPhone App. So they create one App split between the 55" iPlay and the iPad/iPhone.

Many Apps will work right out of the box with AirPlay.

It will not be a TV + box, it is the closing of the loop of the Apple Ecossystem!

And this thing will work on its own with the Cloud.

Now imagine this thing works with a Bluetooth keyboard and remote BUT it "also" works with the iPhone/iPad serving as keyboard&remote. The iPad/iPhone will also work as a trackpad for the huge screen just like the MacBook trackpads operate with the screen or the magicpad does with the iMac for instance.

So you will be able to have this gorgeous futuristic looking TV that'll make you proud and that does things that none else does but... if having an iPhone to control it enables you to use this and that game or App...

Isn't the key word for all this multi-year process "convergence"?! Convergence means synergy, a closed loop that feeds itself. Do you think Apple's lawsuits to Samsung are just about the iPhone/iPad?!

Look at the rumors, aren't they talking about Apple not going with OLED screens for a TV? They really can't say Apple is going ahead with LED-LCDs, can they?!

It's all there and it's obvious. It's been years in the works. And all the iPhone/iPad work is converged into such device.

Actually it's so simply done for Apple it would be dumb not to do so. And how it will differentiate Apple from the competitors?! Once again, they will be trying to tie their shoelaces when Apple is getting to the finish line... Because, you know, it's all about the Software integration with Hardware and there's nothing like the iOS out there, is there?

Finally, I just want to add this: if the 55" iPlay iOS device works best with an iPhone/iPad, don't you think that there'll be 200 million people drooling to have one?! Suppose that every iPhone/iPad household has got 1 to 2 iPhone/iPad, the potential is 100.000.000 iPlays. Still, if Apple makes a 40" version, "my sweet son/daughter" can have one in his room.

Now add this to FaceTime and you've got gigantic FaceTime video calling. Another boost for FaceTime, another synergy happening.

And then you'll see video content coming out of the iTunes store bigtime and the media moguls fighting it out to be able to have their movies premiere in the Apple Ecossystem! Another gigantic leap in profits in the money making Apple machine.

Actually, I believe HP's decision to drop hardware and invest in software - whomever believes they're dropping WebOS is dumb - has got to do with this they already know from industry espionage ahem intelligence. At this point in time if you're a CEO in this industry and you still haven't figured out that the key to success is CONVERGENCE and INTEGRATION then you've got to be a real loser or just interested in the millions you'll earn out of being a big biz CEO.

Heck, did you really believe Jobs when he stated Apple TV was just a hobby and there wasn't a way to get into that market?! He was not lying, he just forgot to say "now".

This has been in the works for years, do not doubt it.

One more thing: every boardroom of every company or government organization in the world will want one of these. So Apple will indeed have closed the loop because the buying frenzy will come from bottom upwards - consumers - AND from top downwards - big and small corporations/executives. To prove my point, if there ever was a need, I remember I was shown an iPad in the hands of a pharmaceutical salesperson when it hadn't still gotten to my country...

Apple is thorough, completeness, no loose ends, the whole that comes from vision.

Tiny vs. Huge: Apple TV is a tiny box few people know about, it's little and a hobby. This "iPlay" 55" iMac/iPhone/iPad is the real deal, big business, it is a HUGE presence in a living room for every one to see (vanity applies here like for the iPhone/iPad). Steve knows human nature and he knows size matters!

And I see no reason for it to be expensive, Apple will surely apply the same economies of scale and muscle to make them affordable.

Now I REALLY rest my case!
post #184 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Depth of field is particularly hard to "fake" unless you are willing to do a lot of rotoscoping... The natural depth of feel look from a lens is hard to emulate digitally because one thing computers are not that great at doing yet is being able to take a scene and gauge objects and layering. That's why some of the pseudo-3D done by separating layers instead of shooting with a real 3D camera look so bad... eg Alice in Wonderland 3D.

New zero focus techniques eliminate lenses altogether and place focus totally into the post production. It's getting close to being ready for camera production, what's holding it back is non-researcher configured tools. Cool stuff that uses whacky diffraction filters and then processes what lens and aperture you want in software. Continuous flexibility in depth of field, focal plane+sharpness and localized aperture settings.

When artists begin to trust this the whole photography/cinematography game changes. Purists will raise a stink.
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post #185 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by XamaX View Post

Look at the rumors, aren't they talking about Apple not going with OLED screens for a TV? They really can't say Apple is going ahead with LED-LCDs, can they?!

I think it was you I said this to before, but:

I'm not paying $5,000 for a television when I can pay $99 for a box that does the exact same thing, connects to my existing televisions, and can be cheaply replaced whenever I want to have a more powerful box with new features.

You HAVE no case. This is nonsense.

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post #186 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazmacaz View Post

Two words - smart TV.

I think we are going to see the first TV set-top box (or maybe even a TV with the box built in) that truly transcends the personal computer/tv divide - that sounds like a 'category defining experience' that Apple already has nine tenths of the pieces in place to bring to market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XamaX View Post

BINGO!

Imagine a 55" iPad/iPhone. Developers create Apps for such a huge screen - but it's really just 1920x1080 (or whatever) - that work in combination with a native iPad/iPhone App. So they create one App split between the 55" iPlay and the iPad/iPhone.

...

So you will be able to have this gorgeous futuristic looking TV that'll make you proud and that does things that none else does but... if having an iPhone to control it enables you to use this and that game or App...


Everybody wants this convergence,

But we still want to get TV on that wonderful new HDTV + whatever!

In the words of a Broadcast Executive friend: "the technology is here, but the politics aren't".


What we need to consider is:

1) who owns the content we want to see?

2) who has rights to broadcast that content?

3) who has rights to deliver that content into the home and to the HDTV

4) will all of these entities agree to provide access?

5) how much will it cost?


In the case of, say, a baseball game, it's the teams, the league, the Broadcast Network, the CableCos who want to get their piece of the pie -- then there are the advertisers and agencies who's contractual obligations must be met.

There are a lot of pipers who need to be paid.

As demonstrated by GoogleTV any entity can refuse access to their [part of the] content -- and you have nothing to show but web surfing. Now, that's really fun -- gather the family around the HDTV and watch Mom make typos while searching for something that doesn't interest us.



That's why Steve said that there is no "go to market" solution for AppleTV (let alone an Apple HDTV).


What is interesting is there is a broadcast spectrum auction coming in 2012 or 2013. These spectrum bands could be used for cell phones -- or possibly an alternative/addition to the current CableCo-owned bands.

Whoever wins the auction may gain negotiating leverage with the carriers and CableCos (who, often are a single company).

Anyway, as my friend indicated -- it could change the politics.
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post #187 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

New zero focus techniques eliminate lenses altogether and place focus totally into the post production. It's getting close to being ready for camera production, what's holding it back is non-researcher configured tools. Cool stuff that uses whacky diffraction filters and then processes what lens and aperture you want in software. Continuous flexibility in depth of field, focal plane+sharpness and localized aperture settings.

When artists begin to trust this the whole photography/cinematography game changes. Purists will raise a stink.

That piques my interest -- Got any links or search terms?

Are you suggesting that cameras will show something in the viewfinder that represents a scene... then you can digitally zoom the viewfinder image while the camera captures the entire scene available to the aperture (unfiltered and unzoomed)? Then you manipulate the raw, however you want in post?
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post #188 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That piques my interest -- Got any links or search terms?

Are you suggesting that cameras will show something in the viewfinder that represents a scene... then you can digitally zoom the viewfinder image while the camera captures the entire scene available to the aperture (unfiltered and unzoomed)? Then you manipulate the raw, however you want in post?

Plenoptic camera. A company called Lytro is working on a still camera, they supposedly have a working prototype. I have no specific reason to doubt them, just too few details are available. The founder's doctoral thesis looks reasonably sound, but I'm not experienced in reading scientific papers.

I don't know of any such video camera in the works. It's so very different that you might be waiting at least two years for good software to be able to use video footage. I have no idea how stills can be retouched such that you can "refocus" it and the retouch would still hold.
post #189 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Plenoptic. A company called Lytro is working on a still camera. I don't know of any such video camera in the works.

Yeesus Marta! Thanks for the links.

The following gallery is amazing -- you can click on any portion of a picture and it will refocus on that portion -- kinda' like the way you focus an iPhone 4.

Lytro Picture Gallery


This is truly revolutionary!


Hmmm... I wonder if this has anything to do with an Apple product transition...


Edit: Makes my efforts to use Motion to change the depth of field -- seem irrelevant!

Edit 2: WOT... I ran across this:

The MacTini
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post #190 of 225
...game console using iOS and ARM with online app distribution. Includes a webcam for FaceTime, PhotoBooth, and doubles as an AppleTV.
post #191 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

The trouble is that I have already bought it. I own the iMac. Now I'm being abandoned because they've changed the interface rules. It's one thing if you introduce a new product with a new way to interact with it. It's another to change existing systems. Yes, today I can undo many of those interface changes. But we all know Apple. Eventually, they will remove the tools to return the Mac to its classic interface.

I think you are clinically depressed. So sad, you dislike so many things. Don't grab ahold of things so hard and you will feel a little better.
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #192 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't consider myself an expert either.

I've never tried in post. It seems like a lot of work though. You can "fake" it at record time by having the camera as close to the subject as possible. You don't get near the level of flexibility as you might want, but with with a little cleverness, it can work.

I got this: http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us/
It's a great set of DVDs on basic tools of the trade. All the more so because the 3d puppets and monotone voiceovers really show the DIFFERENCE good camera work can make. Simply Amazing!
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #193 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Plenoptic camera. A company called Lytro is working on a still camera, they supposedly have a working prototype. I have no specific reason to doubt them, just too few details are available. The founder's doctoral thesis looks reasonably sound, but I'm not experienced in reading scientific papers.

I don't know of any such video camera in the works. It's so very different that you might be waiting at least two years for good software to be able to use video footage. I have no idea how stills can be retouched such that you can "refocus" it and the retouch would still hold.

I fear this thing will cost a fortune for a piont and shoot. However focus after the fact capability would be wonderful. Apparently the camera lacks zoom which would suck too.

I actually believe I've heard of these folks a few years ago. Hopefully the will ship something soon. It very much looks like they are on the bleeding edge of technology here so such a camera may be worth having simply because of that.
post #194 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I fear this thing will cost a fortune for a piont and shoot. However focus after the fact capability would be wonderful. Apparently the camera lacks zoom which would suck too.

I actually believe I've heard of these folks a few years ago. Hopefully the will ship something soon. It very much looks like they are on the bleeding edge of technology here so such a camera may be worth having simply because of that.

AFAICT, the first light field camera is this:



Raytrix-R11 4D lightfield-camera

And, it supposedly costs $25,000.


The image above shows a zoom lens,


As I read these articles, one of the issues is low resolution -- something to do with each micro=lens only handling a fraction of the pixels available:






Though... that seems to be something that can be resolved as the technology matures.


I am no expert in optics (or anything, for that matter) -- but my first impression in researching light field was that optical zoom is not needed. The camera captures whatever light is available -- given precise micro lenses, enough pixel storage, the zoom could be done after the fact, similar to focus, Digital zoom to be sure -- but, maybe, really, really good digital zoom,

If light field has the ability to handle zoom, it could be used on a small, flat device like the iPhone -- the camera you always have with you!

And, the iPad, with a much larger surface, could support more micro lenses and a wider field of view. You would get even better results with the iPad -- the camera you usually have with you!

Finally if the processing is too taxing for the mobile device -- it could just record a flat image, as it does now, in addition to the light field data -- which would be rendered back at the ranch.
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post #195 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

With consumers embracing a rapid shift away from traditional computers and towards a growing array of mobile devices, Apple may be preparing to introduce a distinct family of next-generation Mac designs unlike anything seen to date, a vague rumor suggests.

Citing an anonymous source within the Cupertino-based company's Asian supply chain, hit-or-miss macotakara.jp claims Apple with the help of its component suppliers is gearing up to introduce Macs that are "absolutely different from current products," possibly by the "end of this year."

The brief report goes on to state that although the source could provide no further details on the matter, the designs of the new Macs mark such a departure from Apple's existing offerings that they could be brought to market under a new brand or product name altogether.

As such, the latest rumor appears to be describing an initiative separate from Apple's reported efforts (1, 2) to transition its flagship line of MacBook Pro notebooks into slimmer enclosures akin to the MacBook Air, dropping traditional hard disk drives in favor of solid state drives and jettisoning optical disc drives completely.

For its part, macotakara.jp has a mixed track record in predicting Apple's future product directions. Though it accurately reported that Apple would introduce its second-gen iPad in March and push out the release of the iPhone 5 until much later in the year, other reports about new MacBook Airs featuring high-speed 400MBps flash memory and a flat-back iPad 2 did not pan out.

The Japanese publication has also issued a flurry of other claims over the past several months that remain pending, including rumors that Apple will return to an aluminum backside on the iPhone 5 and that the company is testing MacBook Airs powered by the same A5 chip found inside the iPad 2.

The FUTURE of the Mac is ONE OS ONE App Store
across all from iPod to iPhone to iMac to iMacPro
all with iTouch Retina Screen and iTouch Retina Monitors.
post #196 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pius Eugene View Post

The FUTURE of the Mac is ONE OS ONE App Store
across all from iPod to iPhone to iMac to iMacPro
all with iTouch Retina Screen and iTouch Retina Monitors.

Nope.

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post #197 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That piques my interest -- Got any links or search terms?



computational photography & coded aperture for search terms

The following for the good links, there's other stuff out there but Durand's (first link) is the first stuff I saw published and presented.

http://projects.csail.mit.edu/photo/

http://web.media.mit.edu/~raskar/Mas...dAperture.html


Quote:
Are you suggesting that cameras will show something in the viewfinder that represents a scene... then you can digitally zoom the viewfinder image while the camera captures the entire scene available to the aperture (unfiltered and unzoomed)? Then you manipulate the raw, however you want in post?

Pretty much. And they do it with run of the mill SLRs with a simple lens modification to insert the coded aperture, not these whacky high priced cameras in the above posts.
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post #198 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

AFAICT, the first light field camera is this:



Raytrix-R11 4D lightfield-camera

And, it supposedly costs $25,000.

I suspect that the other guys re going after a volume market but even if not that is one expensive camera.
Quote:

The image above shows a zoom lens,


As I read these articles, one of the issues is low resolution -- something to do with each micro=lens only handling a fraction of the pixels available:






Though... that seems to be something that can be resolved as the technology matures.

Well hopefully though the Lytro web site was not encouraging at all in that respect. In fact they seemed to be making up excuses. Mind you I'm not mega pixel crazed but even an extremely high quality camera can not make up for the lack of pixels.
Quote:

I am no expert in optics (or anything, for that matter) -- but my first impression in researching light field was that optical zoom is not needed. The camera captures whatever light is available -- given precise micro lenses, enough pixel storage, the zoom could be done after the fact, similar to focus, Digital zoom to be sure -- but, maybe, really, really good digital zoom,

I was left with a slightly different picture. Frankly though the web site leaves a lot to be desire. There is nothing of value on the sight when it comes to the camera itself. Further all of the pictures posts are too tiny to be of use. Now I understand this is generation one technology and very bleeding edge at that, but I've yet to see sound descriptions of what the camera output and its current status in R&D.
Quote:
If light field has the ability to handle zoom, it could be used on a small, flat device like the iPhone -- the camera you always have with you!

If they could end up so small that would be great, t just looks like it is a few years off.
Quote:
And, the iPad, with a much larger surface, could support more micro lenses and a wider field of view. You would get even better results with the iPad -- the camera you usually have with you!

Finally if the processing is too taxing for the mobile device -- it could just record a flat image, as it does now, in addition to the light field data -- which would be rendered back at the ranch.

I'm not even sure the camera can even do that. Unfortunately I found Lytro's web sight to be very boring, filled with hollow hype and just taxing on the mind.
post #199 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Why thank you, coming from an expert like yourself. You've certainly clarified it further.

Can you comment on my post above on DSLR filmmaking as I see it?

Share more. Do you see Sony and Panasonic (eg. P2), for example, losing out a lot of ground to Canon, despite Canon's DSLR "shortcomings"?

Haha, nvidia, I hardly classify myself an "expert", but thanks for the props nonetheless!

I have 20+ years now (yikes!) in the field, but it is now literally so broad and deep that I find it impossible to become a true master in any one aspect of what I do. The one thing that never ceases to amaze me, however, is not how much things change, but rather how quickly they do.

As with your previous post, you're bang on the money with your assessment, but it really boils down to what tools are falling into what hands at what price point. There are so many people in this world with an amazing "eye" that have had no financial or practical means to realize their creative visions. That's all changing again!

Simply put, all but the stickeiest of Hollywood cinematographers are being blown away - on a daily basis - by what is being achieved by the "public" at large with the latest technologies.

That camera you linked to at B+H is indeed still part of the "video" legacy - and there are many virtues to working with such cameras, at least from a post point of view - but the real game-changers will be cameras like this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ur_Thirds.html

The AF100 is the 1st camera that attempts to meld the benefits of DSLR videography with the practicality of "true" video cameras.

I've seen it in use, and although it's a bit clunky in some regards, it is, IMO, the harbinger of the Next Wave of filmmaking.

If any of you are familiar at all with the RED cameras - they are recording much of what you see on TV and many films in the theatre now - this is the trickle down effect of that technology:

http://www.red.com/

A reasonably workable RED package - all that you need to shoot a low budget film or documentary - is still anywhere from $15-40K. That may seem ridiculously huge to many, but in fact, it's utterly revolutionary.

An AF100 at $5K + $5K more for accessories is nothing short of earth-shattering.

And next year, there will be something even better!

I'm literally shaking with excitement to see what the next half-decade will bring...
post #200 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Thanks for the advice! Some questions:

1) By the render times do you mean things like ray-tracing or just the standard render times we're used to with FCP 7 and the like.

2) Can you setup a camera to capture live action -- like zoom in on the quarterback, and follow the throw to the wide receiver?

3) Got any links (even names or search terms) to what I should strive for in "filming" or in post?

I am a techie, not a creative. Most of my stuff is ad hoc stuff of family -- my 16-year-old granddaughter has some talent in plot, storyboarding, filming and some post. We all want to learn.

Here's an example of the kind of sports action I want to enhance -- I am using a tripod and dead reckoning (no viewfinder), I can't zoom while filming, but the AVCHD is high enough that I can zoom in post.

Dish Punt Rewind (fcp2)

TIA

Dick

Dick -

The render times are simply the most significant speedbump in a professional editor's workflow. Therefore, what I am about to discuss may or may not apply to you - I'll let you decide.

Since the advent of DSLR's using H264 compression technology, or even many of the AVCHD cameras - which you seem to be using - editors everywhere have been complaining about transcoding issues.

I'm using FCP7 and the time required to simpy get a raw piece of footage from a DSLR into the machine so I can edit with it natively is, well, intensive to say the least.

I have a workflow now that makes this a piece of cake - it's all dependent on pre-planning! - even though it's still a pain in the a$$.

FCPX changes all this, but for the time being, I can't afford to retrain myself to a new editing paradigm.

Now, imagine that I had to add to the barrier I just described, a roto and render process. Unimagineable! It would be a nightmare!

So I'm not only talking pure render times on the system, but also the raw man-hours of attending to all of the fussiness of that workflow.

In my world, if that "look" is desired, we go after it at the camera level. With the cost of the new DSLR's, that's in most people's range.

And, I don't need to mention, they take jaw-dropping stills as well.

__

To answer your second question, you *can* do this, but again, follow focus is the most glaring weakness of the DSLR's.

You can overcome this using a various techniques - practice, practice, practice is the key here. Like anything, you will eventually achieve great results with the right gear and a certain level of proficiency.

What you are asking about will, however, be virtually impossible to do "out-of-the-box" with the current technology. It's unreasonable to expect to play a new saxophone as a neophyte, even if you've played the flute in the past. Same, same, but different. The same logic applies to the cameras.

Look at it this way - you could perfect your technique with a camera out in the sun as opposed to perfecting your post-production skills in a dark room with a computer!

__

Lastly, I'll point you to Philip Bloom's website:


http://philipbloom.net/


The man has become the poster-boy for DSLR filmmaking and his site is a veritable fountain of both great examples of what can be achieved as well as much information on how to get there.

The fellow that the funny Australian was "taking the pi$$" out of many posts back is Vincent Laforet:


http://www.laforetvisuals.com/


Laforet's pieces are sumptuous, to be sure, but they are generally produced with really high budgets. Bloom's site is much more accessible to the "everyman" like us.

Finally, I can't get by without the immeasurably useful Cinema5D:


http://cinema5d.com/index.php


Quite possibly my most visited forum - and that's really saying something for a forum junkie like me...

Hope that helps.
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