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Apple may introduce a radically different Mac product family by year's end - Page 3

post #81 of 225
8/22/11 at 8:56am
E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nonsense. That's why the Mac Mini and iMac exist.



… WANT. NOW.

Need a more powerful computer? Buy a second box. Need more hard drive space? Buy a Thunderbolt RAID array. Need a more powerful computer after that? Plug the second box into the Thunderbolt RAID array.

This would basically be RAIDed CPUs. Just buy more and plug them in. And obviously knowing Apple, it wouldn't take any setup at all. Entire server rooms would be reduced to plugging in a new box when you needed more processing power.

Yes! And Apple has existing software that can manage this distributed power.

Fill a few holes in FCPX and the pro editors will trip all over themselves to buy this!


Edit: Here's a bit from the spec on the Apple Thunderbolt Display

Quote:
The ultimate docking station.

With just one cable, connect any Thunderbolt-enabled Mac and get 27 inches of high-resolution screen space, high-quality audio, a FaceTime HD camera, FireWire 800 and Gigabit Ethernet ports — and a Thunderbolt port you can use to daisy-chain additional high-performance peripherals such as hard drives and video capture devices.


Ports

Three powered USB 2.0 ports
FireWire 800 port
Gigabit Ethernet port
Thunderbolt port
Kensington security slot
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #82 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:00am
One criticism leveled against the iPad is it is NOT a computer like a Mac or PC and cannot be used to create, but only consume. The iPad IS powerful enough to create, but the apps have to struggle through iTunes to sync with a mac, etc. The iCloud eliminates the syncing.

Consumers never really needed PCs to be so powerful as they seldom use them for anything but the internet and email. But slow PCs choke on video and awful flash animation.

Imagine a device that runs iOS and all iPad/iPhone apps, has 3G/4G/wireless, has a laptop form factor, can easily connect to your TV as a display, has 18 hours of battery life, costs under $1000, but can still be used like a regular computer to create documents, write SW, uses the cloud, but doesn't run an Intel processor. A dumbed-down PC with the all the power of an iPad and enough of the power of a Mac.

Apple isn't making the Mac more like the iPad, but preapring to make the iPad more like the Mac (without the whole desktop interface). Remember, it's all OSX underneath, just the GUI that makes iOS different.

That could be the new device. It exists only in my mind, right now.
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post #83 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquia33 View Post

Macs that are "absolutely different from current products - Sounds like a product transition to me.

Hmmm, yeah, maybe you're right.

In that case could be the new MacBook Pros, the ones without drives. No Superdrive and no hard drive. SSD only. MBA-style.
And a battery twice as big for 12+ hour battery life...
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post #84 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I could never see the attraction of a laptop.

They aren't *that* portable and they don't even come close to the power of a desktop. They also don't sync so you have to be "either-or" for your main computer. Using a desktop as well as a laptop is just awkward at best.

I like the idea of a powerful desktop (if you need it) and iPad for everything mobile. So far this is the perfect combo for me.

Great point. I'll simply take my 24" iMac with me on the plane next time I fly somewhere. :roll eyes:

And what's so hard about syncing a desktop and a laptop? iDisk does it very well. Unfortunately, with iDisk going away, I'll have to switch to Dropbox, but that will do just as well.
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post #85 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Maybe it's that thing where the pad docks in the monitor.

Can you visualize Steve introducing something like that -- we call it the Apple bi-polar
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #86 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, I emailed a friend who is an exec in Broadcast TV -- about this, but more about the iPads as Personal TVs over WiFi, around the house. No rebroadcast, no PVR -- whatever comes out of the coax cable just WiFi to the iPads.

A got a short answer that the technology is there, but the politics are not.

We plan to speak later today so maybe I'll be able to flesh-out the answer.

But, based on the above, I don't believe an Apple HDTV/ATV solution fits the timeframe if this rumor:

It's coming I'm sure ... I for one am dumping any traditional TV feed from my FiOS. Using AE and ATV we watch lovely quality (OK maybe not the highest but good enough for us) HD TV from Netflix and CNN's iPad App shoots to the big screen with Airplay almost flawlessly. I expect more iPad apps like CNNs to follow soon (I love VEVO HD for Music vids). So it's getting there faster and faster. It would be nice to have these apps on the ATV itself as in an add your own to the ATV menu set up and avoid the need for iPad / Airplay scenario and I am hoping that's coming.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #87 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

Apple may have found that they were able to produce that kind of next generation device ahead of their previously deterined schedule. This could have been driven by the wide acceptance of the iPad which they hadn't anticipated being as great as it proved to be - their commentary in the quarterly financial calls alluded to their (pleasant) surprise. If that is the case, and especially with the announced intention of HP out of desktop PC production, it is not, as noted above, beyond Apple to introduce something very disruptive and ride out the initial reaction to the radical departure in order to build out the foundation of what they see as the next generation of computing devices.

I think it has been mentioned before but bears repeating: the iPhone and the iPod Touch were the precursors to the iPad - even though the iPad was allegedly on the bench first. It made sense (in retrospect) to bring out smaller, "less threatening" devices first to gauge consumer reaction to the interface, and then introduce the iPad. Which in turn could be the predecessor to a whole new line of computing devices.

This is going to be a struggle first for those of us in technology, as we tend to be wedded to the existing technology paradigm, so look for strong negative reaction by pundits across the board to the new approach when Apple first announces it. Apple stock will inevitably take an initial hit as well (as it seems to do when Apple introduces a new product line). As the iPad demonstrated, if a straight line is drawn from one product to the next (interface-wise for example) consumers have demonstrated that they are willing to make that move much quicker than those of us who are heavily invested in the current technologies.

If this is true we are poised for yet another disruption.

Not so sure! Don't know you from Adam. Maybe you are too imbeded (rather than wedded) to technology to an extent that is foreign to my experience, or you may be thinking in too linear a fashion.

The iPad was a completely new (at least in terms of successful function - not to mention design) computing paradigm, yet, was wildly successful in a very short time. Now, in less than 2 years, tablet computing has replaced (or is at least in the process of changing) the paradigm and is a mega-billion dollar business. Which tells me radical change in form factor is possible, if 'it just works.'
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post #88 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Can you visualize Steve introducing something like that -- we call it the Apple bi-polar

Complete with digital compass.

*rimshot*
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post #89 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:30am
... that works like a full computer, boot camp etc,
to replace a laptop for some people,
to fit where a smaller iMac used to be,
give it a typing rack or whatever like the iPad or a docking station like that patent from a while back that looked like an iMac shell.
Just don't drop it.
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post #90 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Is that a funny typo, or did you mean it? (I know personally the type of damage mainframes and their associated ecosystems have done to certain people).

Well... It was a typo in a proposal we made in 1985 to sell 7 LANS (each with 20 MB HDD and 5-10 Macs , Omnis 2 DB, high-speed printer) to do claims processing/check printing in various Sequoia Insurance Branch Offices in California.

The customer pointed out the typo -- but we left it in. It piqued their interest and made them smile.

We got the business! The installations were a great success! We got a lot of follow-on and reference business.

So, maybe I'm superstitious... but to me, the word is maimframe! (regardless of what the Apple SpellChecker says).
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #91 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

If Apple wants to keep existing, they'll leave it alone.

Why can't I help picturing a muscled Tallest Skil with a rocket launcher shooting an Apple-emblazonned Hind helicopter... ?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #92 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, GOSH. I didn't even THINK about being able to plug it into a LAPTOP!

Not just a bunch of RAIDed desktops but if you need more power for your laptop, plug in this new Mac Pro thingy and WHAM you're rendering with the big boys on your tiny MacBook Air!

Why on earth would your terabytes of source files be on a MacBook Air to start with? Did you edit and create all the 3D models and HD video, that now need a render farm, with a tiny Air? No, you would use a Mac Pro from the beginning.

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post #93 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Granmastak View Post

So you've been around
Remember Taligent? I was quite involved with that, lived next door to Sunnyvale. Nobody expected Amelio to just go like that but it was another time of technological turmoil. Still some interesting technology came out of it that even java uses
To say that Steve is headstrong is an understatement, but then that's him. He does it his way! Looking back at NeXT and Pixar you can say in retrospect they were his early attempts at success. He really won (unlike Charlie Sheen who won in his own mind only)

Yeah, I remember Taligent -- but that was happening as we were leaving the industry (and Silicon Valley).

If you were around Sunnyvale in the 1980s, our Sunnyvale Computer Plus store was at Fremont and Mary. We sold the stores in 1989.

Headstrong?

In 1979, I was doing a demo of an Apple ][ in our store with a crowd of about 15-20 people behind me.

All of a sudden this loud voice calls out from the back -- "You're doing it wrong!"

Jobs pushed his way to the front and proceeded to give the best damn Apple ][ demo I ever saw (better than Woz or his younger brother Mark -- who I thought was the best).
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #94 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Why on earth would your terabytes of source files be on a MacBook Air to start with? Did you edit and create all the 3D models and HD video, that now need a render farm, with a tiny Air? No, you would use a Mac Pro from the beginning.

True but to be fair he was following up on my post about this where I specified an i7 MBP and this exactly what I do do now. The conversation was about the addition of some new low cost Apple made CPU render box that worked on all compliant OS X apps. Which as I no longer have the Mac Pro I for one would love to see as an option ... all pipe dreams probably
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #95 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:50am
It's an iMac that is skinny like an ipad... no optical drive, all SSD storage, and runs a multi-A(s) processor. Touch screen, and runs both iOS and OSX...
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post #96 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Great point. I'll simply take my 24" iMac with me on the plane next time I fly somewhere. :roll eyes:

Yep I need a MBP for air travel too but if you were never too far from your desktop location the Professor's plan would be acceptable. Really depends on the kind of work you do. If you do a lot of web and network configuration stuff you need a unix command line. If you do a lot of graphics you need a mouse and Adobe CS, but if you do mostly written communications an iPad might work as your only mobile computer.

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post #97 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Why can't I help picturing a muscled Tallest Skil with a rocket launcher shooting an Apple-emblazonned Hind helicopter... ?



It's more of a Godfather-esque, "You don' take sides against da users" idea, but I like that, too.
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post #98 of 225
8/22/11 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post



BUT just maybe Steve follows you and I on AI for his next big idea

Seriously though, I wonder just how small and inexpensive Apple could make such an add on TB based CPU for? BTW not sure way RAID has to do with any of of this.

RAID is the storage for the computer ProBoxes -- all the ProBoxes have is Dual Thunderbolt, RAM, GPUs, CPUs and enough SSD to run the OS and whatever buffers for data.

Something like:

RAID*---ProBOX*--DIsplay*===USB/Firewire peripherals

*You can add multiples of these as needed.

RYO Mac Pro!

Edit: The beauty of this is you can start small where the compute box is a Mini. The Mini has only 1 Thunderbolt port so it must be at one end of the daisy chain,

So the Mini is a ProsumerBox -- you upgrade by adding ProBoxes inboard of the Mini.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #99 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

True but to be fair he was following up on my post about this where I specified an i7 MBP and this exactly what I do do now. The conversation was about the addition of some new low cost Apple made CPU render box that worked on all compliant OS X apps. Which as I no longer have the Mac Pro I for one would love to see as an option ... all pipe dreams probably

Realistically the Thunderbolt i/o actually is the best solution. You would need to move the source data from your 3D and video editing apps that are on your notebook to the RAID connected to the Mac Pro so that the memory, CPU, GPU, storage, app and OS are in close proximity to the main bus architecture in order to leverage the multicore power. You can't be sending all the CPU commands from a remote i7 notebook to the workhorse platform over the Thunderbolt connection. It just isn't fast enough. The Mac Pro needs to be running the app locally.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #100 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

RAID is the storage for the computer ProBoxes -- all the ProBoxes have is Dual Thunderbolt, RAM, GPUs, CPUs and enough SSD to run the OS and whatever buffers for data.

Something like:

RAID*---ProBOX*--DIsplay*===USB/Firewire peripherals

*You can add multiples of these as needed.

RYO Mac Pro!

Edit: The beauty of this is you can start small where the compute box is a Mini. The Mini has only 1 Thunderbolt port so it must be at one end of the daisy chain,

So the Mini is a ProsumerBox -- you upgrade by adding ProBoxes inboard of the Mini.

I used to build RAIDs for digital TV production systems in the mid 1990s. In my day we used the original meaning where the 'I' meant 'Inexpensive' Of course we were going for speed over SCSI not redundancy. I was meaning I didn't see what a RAIDed in the context of CPUs meant, it seemed as if it were being used instead of clustered, that's all.

BTW to those on this sub topic , let's not forget the fact Mac Pros were clustered to create one of the top super computers in the World at one time. This isn't new to OS X...

Off topic ... p.s. Am I the only one that goes between Mac and iPad and wishes for consistency in the auto correction?
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #101 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

That would be awesome. I don't know if Apple would do it but it would be Apple's answer for a "home" built pc. Except it would be drop dead easy, plug and play.

Yeah, this is so right in so many ways -- [distributed] Power Computer for heavy-lifting: video transcoding and rendering; home-server: media-center, backup, staging to/from cloud...

Mmm... Me likum Thunderbolt!

And, yes, for many this would displace an iMac -- and obviate a Midi.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #102 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Realistically the Thunderbolt i/o actually is the best solution. You would need to move the source data from your 3D and video editing apps that are on your notebook to the RAID connected to the Mac Pro so that the memory, CPU, GPU, storage, app and OS are in close proximity to the main bus architecture in order to leverage the multicore power. You can't be sending all the CPU commands from a remote i7 notebook to the workhorse platform over the Thunderbolt connection. It just isn't fast enough. The Mac Pro needs to be running the app locally.

Agreed, I was never thinking of anything but TB as the interconnection of members of a cluster. Having said that it's been done before without. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=530504 But then PCI express is built into TB so this is a domestic low cost way we could all do this now. I want a super computer
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #103 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

If Apple wants to keep existing, they'll leave it alone.

Why do they need a Mac Pro to keep existing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Don't quote spam! Please ...

Thanks for saying this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

A case, at that time, against IBM, was dismisssed by a judge who said, essentially: it is not illegal to dominate a market by providing excellent products, marketing and services. 97% of the maimframe computer market. 97%

I think the point is that it's not the percentage itself that is a problem, but if that position of market dominance abused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Is that a funny typo, or did you mean it? (I know personally the type of damage mainframes and their associated ecosystems have done to certain people).

As in physically injured? Did they get holes punched into their fingers by a tape machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granmastak View Post

To say that Steve is headstrong is an understatement, but then that's him. He does it his way! Looking back at NeXT and Pixar you can say in retrospect they were his early attempts at success. He really won (unlike Charlie Sheen who won in his own mind only)

If you take the long view, I'd say NeXT succeeded, because most of Apple's current products are heavily based on the software infrastructure developed at NeXT. I recall that Pixar really didn't pay off until Toy Story, despite a long time in the software business. Sometimes success takes a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I could never see the attraction of a laptop.

They aren't *that* portable and they don't even come close to the power of a desktop. They also don't sync so you have to be "either-or" for your main computer. Using a desktop as well as a laptop is just awkward at best.

I like the idea of a powerful desktop (if you need it) and iPad for everything mobile. So far this is the perfect combo for me.

What do you do that requires the power of a desktop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquia33 View Post

“… Macs that are "absolutely different from current products” - Sounds like a product transition to me.

But they've updated most Macs just a few months ago.
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post #104 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, this is so right in so many ways -- [distributed] Power Computer for heavy-lifting: video transcoding and rendering; home-server: media-center, backup, staging to/from cloud...

Mmm... Me likum Thunderbolt!

And, yes, for many this would displace an iMac -- and obviate a Midi.

Do you think Apple would dare call such a TB based CPU add on 'Thunder Box'?

(I hope that joke translates from UK English to American ...)
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #105 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Complete with digital compass.

*rimshot*

LOL... and maybe a little cart to wheel it around
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #106 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Oh....

What if the Mac pro becomes just a box containing major RAM, CPU, GPU, Reasonable SSD.... and dual Thunderbolt ports.

These could be daisy chained ad infinitum including RAID HDDs and some Displays. a kb, mouse and maybe an iPad.

Or, make it something like a Mac Mini with hard disk. (would probably need to be slightly larger for CPU cooling and a faster hard disk).

Now, what it really needs is ZFS. My understanding is that ZFS reallocates storage space dynamically. You could set this up so that each box has a hard disk, CPU and RAM. When you plug in a new one, ZFS creates a new RAID adding the new disk to the old ones without losing data. (you could do the same thing with SSD, but it would be far more expensive).
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post #107 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Sure they're portable. An iMac or MacPro isn't. Regarding power... what don't they have enough power for? One can also say that a MacPro isn't powerful enough for some tasks. Can you see trying to run an airline reservation system on a MacPro instead of some giant mainframe?

iCloud allegedly takes care of the "either or" question. At lease I guess we'll find out if that's true.

I just said they aren't *that* portable, not that they weren't portable. Everything that isn't bolted to the floor or tied to a power supply the size of a room is technically "portable" including a Mac Pro.

I never liked laptops or used them much because it's a trade-off of power vs. portability. They don't sync with another computer, so if you buy a laptop it only makes sense if it's your main computer. As a main computer, the trade-offs are many. There is processing power for one, but also the screens are small, the ergonomics are bad, and the connectivity is somewhat less than a desktop overall.

As portable devices, they are the heaviest of the lot, and require one to basically carry a large heavy bag full of stuff around most of the time (power supply, mouse, spare batteries, dongles etc.). Battery life has never been stellar until very recently, hard drive space is small etc.

I've always used a Mac Pro (and before that a G4 tower), with a large screen, at a desk. With that as your main computer, portable devices don't make much sense unless they sync so for mobile I have used Palm's, PocketPC's, iPaq's etc. until the iPhone came along and blew them all out of the water.

Now I do about 50% of my work on the desktop and the other half on the iPad. If you could draw on the iPad and do any kind of serious graphic work, I would probably only need the Mac Pro about 10 or 20% of the time.
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post #108 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:41am
"Apple may introduce a radically different Mac product family by year's end"

Finally! I just saw a commercial
MacTini/Nano and revolutionary
iToilet
Congratulations.
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post #109 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Why on earth would your terabytes of source files be on a MacBook Air to start with? Did you edit and create all the 3D models and HD video, that now need a render farm, with a tiny Air? No, you would use a Mac Pro from the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

True but to be fair he was following up on my post about this where I specified an i7 MBP and this exactly what I do do now. The conversation was about the addition of some new low cost Apple made CPU render box that worked on all compliant OS X apps. Which as I no longer have the Mac Pro I for one would love to see as an option ... all pipe dreams probably

Yes, consider this:

You are in the field (a soccer field, in my case) or onsite at an event.
-- With your camera you capture your video onto SD cards.
-- You plug these into a SD Card reader and transfer the compressed card* to the Mac (or iPad)
-- With FCPX you begin processing the SD card in compressed form
-- In the background, you can transcode (expand) the video to ProRes Proxy if desired

* A compressed 8 GB AVCHD card yields about 56 GB uncompressed data.


Then, back at the ranch, you transfer the compressed SD card to RAID and let the ProBoxes do the heavy lifting:
-- transcoding to better ProRes codec
-- analysis of clips for color correction
-- analysis of clips for camera shake and roll correction
-- analysis of clips for sound defects (wind noise and camera hum)
-- analysis of clips for people
-- analysis of clips for closeup, intermediate or wide shots.

This is all going on while you sit at your laptop or a kb/mouse/display and process the ProRes Proxy files.

As the ProBoxes finish their work the advanced FCPX automatically uses the advanced ProRes files instead of the Proxy files.
-- You flesh out your story line.
-- You insert some cut-away clips based on the people and distance analyses.
-- You do color correction, then grading, then color matching.
-- You do sound correction.
-- You add titles and effects.

Ta Dah!
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post #110 of 225
8/22/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I used to build RAIDs for digital TV production systems in the mid 1990s. In my day we used the original meaning where the 'I' meant 'Inexpensive' Of course we were going for speed over SCSI not redundancy. I was meaning I didn't see what a RAIDed in the context of CPUs meant, it seemed as if it were being used instead of clustered, that's all.

BTW to those on this sub topic , let's not forget the fact Mac Pros were clustered to create one of the top super computers in the World at one time. This isn't new to OS X...

Off topic ... p.s. Am I the only one that goes between Mac and iPad and wishes for consistency in the auto correction?

Yes, to the latter. Apple already has OS/Middleware solutions to handle distributed processing.

And I suspect that this is a "yet-to-be-revealed" feature of FCPX (as described in an earlier post).

My loaded iMac 27 handles data faster (2-3 times faster??) from the Thunderbolt pegasus RAID than from the internal iMac HDD. This should be due to the parallelism of the RAID and the capacity of Thunderbolt.

Never thought I'd say this... FireWire 800 is really slow.

The beauty of the ProBox concept is that it doesn't really require any breakthrough hardware -- just Thunderbolt (which they already have) and repackage current RAM/CPU/GPU/SSD.

As better hardware comes along, you don't upgrade your old box -- you just buy a new ProBox and add it to your network.


AIR, the next upgrade to Thunderbolt will use fiber instead of copper, extend the cable length, increase capacity and increase the number of devices on the daisy chain.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #111 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes, to the latter. Apple already has OS/Middleware solutions to handle distributed processing.

My loaded iMac 27 handles data faster (2-3 times faster??) from the Thunderbolt pegasus RAID than from the internal iMac HDD. This should be due to the parallelism of the RAID and the capacity of Thunderbolt.

Never thought I'd say this... FireWire 800 is really slow.

"FireWire 800 is really slow." So we enter the next phase BTW is your iMac using a 7200 or 5400 drive?

I wonder if this new Family product, all dreaming aside on my personal wishes, if not an HDTV maybe a server with local storage that auto communicates with the cloud for those items tagged for remote backup.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #112 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed, I was never thinking of anything but TB as the interconnection of members of a cluster. Having said that it's been done before without. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=530504 But then PCI express is built into TB so this is a domestic low cost way we could all do this now. I want a super computer

I remember that article. I don't recall reading what exactly they were doing with it, but I imagine the same application was running locally on all the boxes and it was being fed small batches of data to process, much like the Sun render farms were doing at Pixar. One computer can control many others, but the application needs to be running locally on each of them. Only a small subset of a movie or large number theory is being worked on and then the pieces are reassembled later. Sun had several huge multi CPU computers designed for banks, and stock trading and also there is the IBM Watson, but those are different since the CPUs were all connected to one box with a single instance of the OS.

I think the best example of clustering today is Google's data centers. How they can bring back a query result so fast is mind boggling.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #113 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

This is a ridiculous attitude. Every OS is based on a particular vision of how a computer should work. You can agree with it or not, but it's got nothing to do with, "we know better than you"; it's a matter of, "this is our vision, if you like it, buy it."

The trouble is that I have already bought it. I own the iMac. Now I'm being abandoned because they've changed the interface rules. It's one thing if you introduce a new product with a new way to interact with it. It's another to change existing systems. Yes, today I can undo many of those interface changes. But we all know Apple. Eventually, they will remove the tools to return the Mac to its classic interface.
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post #114 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes, consider this:

You are in the field (a soccer field, in my case) or onsite at an event.
-- With your camera you capture your video onto SD cards.
-- You plug these into a SD Card reader and transfer the compressed card* to the Mac (or iPad)
-- With FCPX you begin processing the SD card in compressed form
-- In the background, you can transcode (expand) the video to ProRes Proxy if desired

* A compressed 8 GB AVCHD card yields about 56 GB uncompressed data.


Then, back at the ranch, you transfer the compressed SD card to RAID and let the ProBoxes do the heavy lifting:
-- transcoding to better ProRes codec
-- analysis of clips for color correction
-- analysis of clips for camera shake and roll correction
-- analysis of clips for sound defects (wind noise and camera hum)
-- analysis of clips for people
-- analysis of clips for closeup, intermediate or wide shots.

This is all going on while you sit at your laptop or a kb/mouse/display and process the ProRes Proxy files.

As the ProBoxes finish their work the advanced FCPX automatically uses the advanced ProRes files instead of the Proxy files.
-- You flesh out your story line.
-- You insert some cut-away clips based on the people and distance analyses.
-- You do color correction, then grading, then color matching.
-- You do sound correction.
-- You add titles and effects.

Ta Dah!

Alas my HD Camera, a Sony HDFX is still tape based ... I think I'd better sell this and although not as good at many things go for a Nikon DSLR with HD ... Oh but all those tapes and no way to re digitize if I sell it! Groan... (I'm torn between Canon and Nikon but the HDR stills and auto focus options on video are not yet there on Canon ... last time I checked.)
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #115 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

What a waste of an article. Where is the news in that. Someone predicts that something different will come out in the future. wow

It's a frakking rumors site, this is a juicy rumor. Doesn't matter how likely it is on face value, go ahead and discuss it. Go to a real vetted news site and be confused by their blind indifference to news vs opinion. Don't be confused by rumor and innuendo on a rumors site.
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Hiro's Hall of Shame ignore list: Tulkas -- because we know he wasn't born dumb.
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post #116 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

What a waste of an article. Where is the news in that. Someone predicts that something different will come out in the future. wow


What a coincidence. I was just thinking the same thing about your post!
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{2010 Mac Pro-6 core 3.33-12gb 1333 ram-ati5870-velociraptor 600's-SL/win7/64-Konnekt Live/Onkyo-Dell3007wfp}
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post #117 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed, I was never thinking of anything but TB as the interconnection of members of a cluster. Having said that it's been done before without. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=530504 But then PCI express is built into TB so this is a domestic low cost way we could all do this now. I want a super computer

And you shall have one! Steve says you -- OK! Me -- No Way... you're still doing it wrong!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #118 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

The trouble is that I have already bought it. I own the iMac. Now I'm being abandoned because they've changed the interface rules. It's one thing if you introduce a new product with a new way to interact with it. It's another to change existing systems. Yes, today I can undo many of those interface changes. But we all know Apple. Eventually, they will remove the tools to return the Mac to its classic interface.

What is it you feel is being abandoned by Apple with regard your iMac? Do you mean Lion is too radical or the rumors of further changes even to Lion. Just asking for clarification..

THis is like saying you wish OS X could still be like OS 9. You have to move along or stay by the wayside... Just hold on tight for a fun ride I'd say
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #119 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Perhaps some kind of cloud computer.

Something that holds all data and applications in the cloud, yet has a real keyboard, can run iOS apps as well as re-compiled Mac apps, but offers a touch screen too.

Think MacBook Air with very little local storage, an ARM quad-core chip and insane battery life.

Apple had a few patent applications about notebook/tablet conversions...

Latency kills that idea dead. Cloud is powerful, but it has to respect latency and that means meaningful secondary storage in the device. Every attempt to the contrary over the past 20 years failed for exactly that reason. So don't just change the name to cloud and make the same old mistakes.
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post #120 of 225
8/22/11 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Do you think Apple would dare call such a TB based CPU add on 'Thunder Box'?

(I hope that joke translates from UK English to American ...)

Perchance, are you referring to Boomer at the Trepedating Pole?
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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