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Anonymous developer sees app registrations from dual-mode 'iPhone 5'

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Anecdotal evidence in support of the long-held belief that Apple's next iPhone will support both GSM and CDMA networks has emerged in the form of an anonymous developer who reports that a new dual-mode device has appeared in app usage logs.

The developer sent the logs to TechCrunch's Robin Wauters, who confirmed on Monday that "a tiny number of people have recently registered for one of their applications from a single, brand new Apple device that is decidedly dual-mode meaning it supports both CDMA and GSM."

Rumors of a deal between Apple and Qualcomm that would bring the chip maker's dual-carrier chips to the iPhone go as far back as 2009, though one analyst suggested that the resulting handset would not arrive until 2011 at the earliest. Numerous reports have since suggested that Apple's so-called iPhone 5 will be the company's first dual-mode phone.

Even Verizon CEO Fran Shammo has said that the next iPhone will be a "global device" that will put his company on "equal footing" with competing carriers.

According to Monday's report, the developer's app is being tested by "what is almost certainly an iPhone 5" running iOS 5 and holding "two distinct sets of mobile network codes (MNC) / mobile country codes (MCC)," which are used to identify mobile carriers.

"Some registrations for the app which the developer also asked not to be named were logged from a new Apple device, using the MNC/MCC codes from both Verizon and AT&T," Wauters wrote.

When the original iPhone arrived in 2007, it was a GSM-only device. Apple finally gave its popular smartphone the CDMA treatment in February, when it launched the Verizon iPhone 4.



Apple is expected to release the iPhone 5 within the next six weeks, several months later than the company's usual June or July release in years past. Last week, one report cited "high-level AT&T sources" as saying that the device will launch in early October.

The handset is widely believed to include the A5 processor and an 8-megapixel camera. Also on Monday, photos of alleged parts for the iPhone 5, including battery pack, rear camera and audio flex components, surfaced.
post #2 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Anecdotal evidence in support of the long-held belief that Apple's next iPhone will support both GSM and CDMA networks

"Anecdotal" when the current Verizon iPhone already has a dual-protocol chip?

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #3 of 24
Dual-mode isn't news. LTE would be news.

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post #4 of 24
I'll take a Verizon iPhone with unlocked GSM, please.

(I know, I know, wishful thinking.)
post #5 of 24
Whether Apple creates a dual mode phone or not has no bearing on how much they lock down the device. There focus for doing it would be to maximize profits, not to weaken deals with carriers to make their phone more open if it's not in the best interest of their bottom line otherwise there phones would be factory unlocked by default, not be a legal decree of some countries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"Anecdotal" when the current Verizon iPhone already has a dual-protocol chip?

A lot more HW is needed to support full world mode even if China Mobile's '3G' TD-SCDMA isn't supported on that model. I haven't seen a single smartphone on the market that supports penta-band UMTS, quad-band GSM, and dual-band CDMA.
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post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I haven't seen a single smartphone on the market that supports penta-band UMTS, quad-band GSM, and dual-band CDMA.

While it would be Apple's longest "world's first" tagline, I hope we see it.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #7 of 24
Simply amazing what constitutes as "news" around here some days.
post #8 of 24
This is a rumor site. They will publish anything Apple-related that will attract pageviews.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikiman View Post

Simply amazing what constitutes as "news" around here some days.

Obviously it was important enough for you to take the time to read it and post your words of wisdom...
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Dual-mode isn't news. LTE would be news.

Yes, we already knew the new iPhone was going to be CDMA and GSM. This should at least be labeled as "confirmation" of that instead of hawking it like it's surprising new information.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I'll take a Verizon iPhone with unlocked GSM, please.

(I know, I know, wishful thinking.)

I would be really surprised if the next iPhone *wasn't* unlocked. USA-ians might not have noticed, but it's sold unlocked almost everywhere on earth already.

Apple has no binding agreements with AT&T or Verizon anymore that anyone has reported. Why wouldn't they sell it unlocked?
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I would be really surprised if the next iPhone *wasn't* unlocked. USA-ians might not have noticed, but it's sold unlocked almost everywhere on earth already.

Apple has no binding agreements with AT&T or Verizon anymore that anyone has reported. Why wouldn't they sell it unlocked?

Sure, you can buy an unlocked iPhone in the US...if you are willing to pay several hundred more dollars for it AND still pay the carriers full-prices for the service plans.

Selling an unlocked GSM phone is relatively easy because you get get a SIM card from several sources for just about any carrier. But with a CDMA phone, you'd still need approval from the carrier to connect to their network.

As for Apple having no binding agreements that requires them to lock phones...what do you think is going to change between now and when the next iPhone is released? I would suspect the same reasons Apple has now to provide locked phones to the carriers, whatever those reasons may be, will still be in play later this year. Why do you think that's going to change? It would be great if it would, but I just don't see it happening in the near future.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

USA-ians might not have noticed, but it's sold unlocked almost everywhere on earth already.

I don't think that's true. From what I can tell it's only sold unlocked in countries that have laws requiring it to be sold unlocked.
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post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't think that's true. From what I can tell it's only sold unlocked in countries that have laws requiring it to be sold unlocked.

You can buy an unlocked iPhone 4 in the US now, can't you?

Not that anyone would want to pay several hundred for one, not with the iPhone 5 in the wings...

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You can buy an unlocked iPhone 4 in the US now, can't you?

Not that anyone would want to pay several hundred for one, not with the iPhone 5 in the wings...

Yes. So it's countries that require it to be unlocked and the US as of months ago.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20...for-$649-$749/
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post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't think that's true. From what I can tell it's only sold unlocked in countries that have laws requiring it to be sold unlocked.

Nope, they sell it unlock in countries where their agreements with the carriers allow it to be sold unlocked. Canada, currently, has no laws that requires cell phones to be unlocked (AFAIK). But, as soon as the started selling on more than one carrier, they started offering unlocked units. Obviously, locked units, with carrier subsidy (or without) are still available.

Apple will sell it unlocked in any country they are allowed to (by their carrier contracts) or required to by law. Now, what would be interesting is if they mandated that all future iPhones be sold unlocked and put that right into their carrier agreements. Does Apple have the clout to push that through now? Would the risk alienating carriers by trying to force it, when those carriers now have viable alternatives to use as a stick against Apple? I'd love to see Apple do this, just as Google does it with the Nexus line, but I don't expect it. Apple would likely have to make concessions to the carriers to get them to agree and those concessions likely aren't worth the effort if the benefit to Apple isn't really that much. I think it would generate a lot of customer goodwill though. Many people have no idea the Nexus line is sold unlocked and with subsidy. If Apple forced this on the carriers, it would be major news.

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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I would be really surprised if the next iPhone *wasn't* unlocked. USA-ians might not have noticed, but it's sold unlocked almost everywhere on earth already.

Apple has no binding agreements with AT&T or Verizon anymore that anyone has reported. Why wouldn't they sell it unlocked?

I think they will do what they have been doing in Canada and what they now do in the US. It will be locked it bought on carrier contract/subsidy and unlocked it purchased directly from Apple without carrier subsidy.

I would love it if they started mandating all iPhones are sold unlocked, with or without subsidy. If Fido/Rogers hadn't closed their damn loopholes, I would just buy a subsidized locked iP5 and have them unlock it for $50. I did this for a few iP4's but they've closed those holes for now. Guess I might see what I can get for an unlocked iP4 and if it's enough, I'll buy a full priced, unlocked iP5 (maybe).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I would love it if they started mandating all iPhones are sold unlocked, with or without subsidy.

Except then the carriers wouldn't subsidize it at all.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except then the carriers wouldn't subsidize it at all.

Maybe, maybe not. They subsidize the Nexus line and it's unlocked. Depends on clout and concessions the vendor is willing to make, I guess.

This is why I wonder, would Apple be willing to push this with the carriers. Would Apple benefit? Maybe not directly, so perhaps it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Maybe, maybe not.

You've never met AT&T and Verizon, have you?

It's the iPhone. The phone for which people leave carriers just to keep. If Apple doesn't force people to stay with a single carrier for the lifetime of the phone, the telecoms are going to gouge as much money out of their users as they can (be it with no subsidy up front so they as a carrier aren't spending money to get customers or by colluding and raising the ETF for the iPhone to $400) before the users get a chance to say, "Hey, this service sucks. I'm going to [other carrier]."

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You've never met AT&T and Verizon, have you?

It's the iPhone. The phone for which people leave carriers just to keep. If Apple doesn't force people to stay with a single carrier for the lifetime of the phone, the telecoms are going to gouge as much money out of their users as they can (be it with no subsidy up front so they as a carrier aren't spending money to get customers or by colluding and raising the ETF for the iPhone to $400) before the users get a chance to say, "Hey, this service sucks. I'm going to [other carrier]."

The carriers certainly might (would) try to make life miserable for everyone, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a possibility for Apple to negotiate no more locks, just as Google did. In fact, just as you say, the iPhone is the phone people leave carriers for. Apple should then have more clout than Google in this regard. All I am saying is that google negotiated it and the Nexus is sold unlocked, with subsidy. It's just a contract issue to be worked out. Maybe Apple would include a claus that prevents the carriers for imposing more draconian restrictions on iPhone customers than on other smartphone customers, sort of an imposed fairness. But, I would actually be OK with the ECF. If you sign a contract and get a subsidy, shouldn't you expect to repay the subsidy? The main benefit of it being unlocked would be travel without roaming rape and that if and when you do choose to change carriers (even with the ECF) you can use your existing phone and not have to buy a new one.

I guess I am thinking of it from a Canadian perspective (where our carriers are even worse than in the US, i.e. 3 year contracts for iPhones, charging for incoming texts, stacked contracts on renewal instead of starting a new contract (Fido), etc). If and when Apple released an iPhone that works on AT&T and TMobile's AWS, it would work on 5 or 6 carriers here (11 if we count their subsidiaries). Hopefully, that competition might help prevent punitive restrictions from the carriers on iPhone customers. Probably wishful thinking.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I haven't seen a single smartphone on the market that supports penta-band UMTS, quad-band GSM, and dual-band CDMA.

Solipsism, is the Samsung Galaxy S2 pretty close to being a "world-phone"? Serious question. I don't know nearly as much about what would constitute one as you do.

Quote:
"The SII is a quad-band GSM and quad-band W-CDMA handset with HSPA data. . ."

Quad band GSM 850/900/1800/1900
Quad band UMTS 850/900/1900/2100
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post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Solipsism, is the Samsung Galaxy S2 pretty close to being a "world-phone"? Serious question. I don't know nearly as much about what would constitute one as you do.

Quote:
"The SII is a quad-band GSM and quad-band W-CDMA handset with HSPA data. . ."

Based on your quoted text it's not, even though having quad-band GSM '2G' does technically mean it'll work in more countries and places than any other single network options.

For Apple to want to sell a single iPhone throughout the world we are looking for CDMA '2G', CDMA2000 '3G', GSM '2G' and UMTS* '3G' with all the associated radio frequencies. However, that would still be excluding China Mobile's homegrown '3G' network, TD-SDCMA.

Can they add all that all in there? The only boards I've seen that support that are Qualcomm "Gobi" chips for larger devices, not smartphones. Mayne Apple is waiting on shrinkage from Qualcomm hence the delay.

* UMTS includes HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+.

PS: Check out what goes for a "world mode" phone on Verizon and Sprint. You get a Phone locked to that CDMA carrier and the GSM and UMTS unlocked, but you only get a single frequency for UMTS which prevents its use in N. America. You could still use the GSM as it's the standard quad-band but you don't get the benefit of '3G' speeds.
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post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Based on your quoted text it's not, even though having quad-band GSM '2G' does technically mean it'll work in more countries and places than any other single network options.

For Apple to want to sell a single iPhone throughout the world we are looking for CDMA '2G', CDMA2000 '3G', GSM '2G' and UMTS* '3G' with all the associated radio frequencies. However, that would still be excluding China Mobile's homegrown '3G' network, TD-SDCMA.

Can they add all that all in there? The only boards I've seen that support that are Qualcomm "Gobi" chips for larger devices, not smartphones. Mayne Apple is waiting on shrinkage from Qualcomm hence the delay.

* UMTS includes HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+.

PS: Check out what goes for a "world mode" phone on Verizon and Sprint. You get a Phone locked to that CDMA carrier and the GSM and UMTS unlocked, but you only get a single frequency for UMTS which prevents its use in N. America. You could still use the GSM as it's the standard quad-band but you don't get the benefit of '3G' speeds.

Thank you sir!

I did note that the Galaxy also "supports quadband UMTS (that's 850/900/1900/2100) which will allow it to work on AT&T's 3G network thanks to the 850/1900 bands. This means that those willing to spend an exorbitant amount to import the unlocked phone will be able to get Samsung's flagship working in the US. "

Of course it's supposedly going to arrive here within another couple of weeks anyway, just in time to be supplanted by another even higher-end Android phone.
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