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Apple still pushing for $1.5 trillion US overseas profit tax holiday

post #1 of 162
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With an estimated $1.5 trillion in foreign profits at stake, Apple and other tech companies have continued to show support for an overseas profit tax holiday for U.S. corporations.

Apple is a financial backer of the WIN America corporate lobbying group that has garnered millions of dollars for major American corporations, Reuters reported on Wednesday. The companies seek a tax break on $1.5 trillion in profits that are being held overseas.

The White House has stood in opposition to a tax holiday, but supporters believe they might be able to sway President Barack Obama to support the measure as the U.S. economy continues to struggle.

The a proposed bill reportedly has the support of 15 Republicans and eight Democrats in the House of Representatives. No bill has appeared in the Senate, but at least one Democratic senator has indicated they are considering one.

The WIN America Campaign has argued that the tax holiday will provide an incentive for U.S. businesses to bring their global earnings to America, and invest in jobs locally. It argues that another stimulus, more tax cuts or action by the Federal Reserve are unlikely, while unemployment lingers north of 9 percent.

"Providing American businesses with incentives to invest at home is a common sense solution that will immediately inject up to $1 trillion into our economy and provide businesses with the security and certainty they need to help Americans get back to work," the campaign's official site reads. "The time to act is now. Let's invest the money here at home -- not spend it overseas."

Apple is not alone in the tech industry in its support of the foreign profit tax holiday. Google is another financier of the WIN America campaign, along with Oracle and Cisco. Reuters noted that all four companies are also major backers of Obama, donating a total of $1.3 million to his 2008 campaign.



Apple first joined the tax holiday effort in February, calling for a temporary break that would enable the iPhone maker and others to repatriate foreign cash by paying only 5 percent in taxes during a one-year period. The companies have argued that such a break could justify investing in research, hiring American workers, and other domestic spending that would boost the economy.

As of last quarter, Apple had nearly $80 billion in cash holdings, while international sales accounted for 62 percent of the company's revenue for the three-month period. Apple executives believe the role of international sales will become greater in the coming quarters, particularly in China, where the company's products have seen considerable growth.
post #2 of 162
Why not "Apple, et. al. push for a…" instead of making it look like Apple itself is going to get a trillion and a half dollars in profit if they stop being taxed?

I mean, that makes complete sense and all, what with obscene EU taxes, but still.
post #3 of 162
It didn't work in 2004. Why would it work now?
post #4 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

It didn't work in 2004. Why would it work now?

Because that's the absolute opposite of what this is talking about.
post #5 of 162
Doesn't Apple already have 87 billion in cash they aren't spending? What would adding to the pile of money do?
post #6 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because that's the absolute opposite of what this is talking about.

Nope; it's the exact same argument made then and now: "It'll stimulate the economy". It didn't.
post #7 of 162
It brings the money home and gives it to people like Steve Jobs who aren't hurting for money instead of the people now struggling to feed their families because their jobs are being shipped overseas to slave labor factories.
post #8 of 162
So let me get this straight, our federal and state governments have no cash to fund any programs from school aid to health care, they are unwilling to tax the rich for revenue...and somehow repatrioting $1 trillion + dollars tax free is going to somehow stimulate the economy? Remind me how again?

Sounds like that old South Park episode of the underwear gnomes:
Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit
post #9 of 162
Think different. Compel repatriation and tax it at 70% at threat of imprisonment for all senior executives.
post #10 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Nope; it's the exact same argument made then and now: "It'll stimulate the economy". It didn't.

Ah, I read it as being Ah, never mind; I was wrong.

Well, we're in a recession now; you never know.
post #11 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

It brings the money home and gives it to people like Steve Jobs who aren't hurting for money instead of the people now struggling to feed their families because their jobs are being shipped overseas to slave labor factories.

Steve Jobs makes a dollar a year. Compare that to Other CEO's.
post #12 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMBa37 View Post

So let me get this straight, our federal and state governments have no cash to fund any programs from school aid to health care, they are unwilling to tax the rich for revenue...and somehow repatrioting $1 trillion + dollars tax free is going to somehow stimulate the economy? Remind me how again?

Sounds like that old South Park episode of the underwear gnomes:
Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

This is a quite different argument which Trey was making. The mantra of "Corporations are bad. Mkay" makes the rounds of all young people, which was the reason for drinking sewage flavored Tweeks local coffee brew vs. the better tasting but corporate Harbucks coffee. This is not a social-economic issue. It's a very simple issue of who is stronger, governments or corporations.
post #13 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_ika View Post

Think different. Compel repatriation and tax it at 70% at threat of imprisonment for all senior executives.

Written like a true pinko, commie, socialist.
post #14 of 162
There is no evidence that this tax holiday would help anyone but shareholders (and I happen to be an Apple shareholder, but I'm opposed to it) and in Apple's case, since they refuse to pay dividends, it probably wouldn't even help shareholders. IMO, U.S. corporations pushing for this should be ashamed of themselves. The country is suffering and needs revenue and jobs. Considering how well Apple is doing, they should be doubly ashamed.

Any tax holiday should only be accompanied by an audited commitment to hiring where the IRS or Socal Security Administration would certify how many employees and at what salary levels a company has before and after the tax holiday. The tax discounts would depend upon the increase in employee count and average wages (for full-time U.S. employees who are NOT "highly compensated") by each company seeking the tax holiday and would be given only at the end of the tax year after the employee increase has been certified with huge penalties for manipulating numbers (like moving employees from one division to another). IMO, that's the only way this would make any sense.
post #15 of 162
What's 5% of $1.5 trillion?
Much better than 0% of $1.5 trillion.
post #16 of 162
Shouldn't Americans be proud of Apple employing thousands of people and building a giant new facility to house them all and enjoying success over companies like Samsung, HTC and LG taking business away to Asia?
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post #17 of 162
So they are all voting for a fee lunch.

No great surprise there.
post #18 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheviot View Post

Doesn't Apple already have 87 billion in cash they aren't spending? What would adding to the pile of money do?

That cash is held around the globe, not just in the US. That's their issue!
post #19 of 162
It would make sense if companies had to commit to paying out say 10% of the money saved either as bonuses to staff or as an investment in their local community. Then the economy might benefit.
post #20 of 162
If it really is about "investment" then so be it. Allow them to bring back their money tax free on the condition that they actually do reinvest it. Call their bluff!
post #21 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

What's 5% of $1.5 trillion?
Much better than 0% of $1.5 trillion.

I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.


PS: This is article about politics so I'm surprised at how tame the rhetoric is so far. If ever there was a thread for crazies to take their soapbox this is it.
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post #22 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.


PS: This is article about politics so I'm surprised at how tame the rhetoric is so far. If ever there was a thread for crazies to take their soapbox this is it.

There are many polls that show >80% of americans are in favor of a removal of tax breaks for the rich. Unfortunately our politicians dont serve the people, they serve the corporations, so its a mute point.

Doesn't stop John "the tan man" Boener from constantly invoking the "will of the American people" every 5 minutes.
post #23 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The a proposed bill

Daily typos continue unabated...
post #24 of 162
Where is my fucking tax holiday?
post #25 of 162
You're a fool if you honestly believe that. That's just a tax trick. He makes his money other ways, trust me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

Steve Jobs makes a dollar a year. Compare that to Other CEO's.
post #26 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Where is my fucking tax holiday?

You're already getting it.

Employee Social Security contributions were slashed this year. Enjoy.
post #27 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

You're a fool if you honestly believe that. That's just a tax trick. He makes his money other ways, trust me.

Exactly. He earns it. Who cares how much money Steve has? He's spent decades building companies and building jobs for tens of thousands of people.

He deserves every penny. This isn't the "fat cats" era people seem to keep dredging up from the 1900s.
post #28 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

You're a fool if you honestly believe that. That's just a tax trick. He makes his money other ways, trust me.

But how much is based directly on performance not simply him being appointed. I'd like to see more company heads actually believe in a company while working to make it successful.
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post #29 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

You're a fool if you honestly believe that. That's just a tax trick. He makes his money other ways, trust me.

Actually, Steve gets no other cash compensation from Apple; he has stock option grants, but he hasn't exercised any for a while. He gets healthcare coverage, plus use of the Gulfstream V but Apple doesn't really pay him anything.

He's probably raking in $30 million annually in Disney dividends, but that's not Apple who is paying out. His portfolio is likely more diversified than one equity, so it's pretty safe to assume that his other investments return a decent amount. That said, the guy doesn't have to work. He could just sit on a beach, read books and drink umbrella cocktails all day long.

Heck, he sits on Disney's board and they had to change their compensation clauses when he requested not paid as a non-executive director.
post #30 of 162
yeah right... give the rich even more tax breaks.. peachy.
so apple can invest in more factories in China to make products for sale guess where? IN CHINA. You get the idea who benefits from this.
post #31 of 162
So, let me get this straight, if (for example) a company called Apple France buys computers from Apple, Inc. and sells them in France and makes a profit and pays France taxes on those profits - everything's ok, right?

Then, Apple is going on about its business here in the US tries to make a decision about moving money that is sitting in Apple France's bank account to the USA. Taxes on that money have already been paid to France. And presently, that money would be taxed a second time if they tried to move it to the US. So, they have no need to move it -- if they don't, it gives Apple France plenty of cash to spend in France (they can buy some more advertising, hire more employees, or build more stores, etc.). But, if they do move it, then the cash is here and Apple can do things with it here.

The choice is theirs, and as things stand presently with the double tax they'd have to pay by moving it, it makes more economic sense to just leave it in France. Companies make decisions based on factors like this all the time. If there was no barrier to making that transaction, it would occur much more often and more money would be in our economy.
post #32 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

You're already getting it.

Employee Social Security contributions were slashed this year. Enjoy.

Apple should give 12% of 80% of the foreign funds Apple is hoarding .
The 20% is held for over seas business uses.

Apple then can take the balance and re invest here in America .

5% is way too low .



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post #33 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.

And without a single piece of supporting evidence, your post is just yet another troll.
post #34 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maguro View Post

Daily typos continue unabated...

They should proof read better but this huge increase in weird words popping up and alternate spellings is since iPads and Lion IMHO (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it). It can be quite amusing at times but also embarrassing after you press send / enter ... just as you see a real blooper in a message with no ability to edit.
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post #35 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

And without a single piece of supporting evidence, your post is just yet another troll.

What supporting evidence does one require for a personal opinion? Now if I stated you should support it too and then gave no supporting evidence as to why I could see why you'd have a problem with my post. As for trolling, of our two posts yours is the one that appears intent on inciting an angry response.
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post #36 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeoutsider View Post

Written like a true pinko, commie, socialist.

Archie Bunker is that you?
post #37 of 162
Well isn't this just typical of American behaviour in a globalised world - sell us all on the idea of opening our markets through devices like the Trans Pacific Partnership (our NAFTA) while maintaining protectionist policies to protect Amerucans who make what we sell (farmers) then subsidise US exporters through the tax system. Why should we sign up for that?

Typical cynical self interested lobbying from the country that's turned hypocrisy into an art form.
post #38 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.

Is it because you believe there's a significant public benefit to doing so, or is more from an investor viewpoint? And if you believe there's a public benefit, what is the primary one?

Noted that you're no longer an Apple shareholder.
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post #39 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.


PS: This is article about politics so I'm surprised at how tame the rhetoric is so far. If ever there was a thread for crazies to take their soapbox this is it.


Sheesh, "Crazies"? How dare people state contrary views to your own? It's especially rich, given you've just stated your own personal view.
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post #40 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

What's 5% of $1.5 trillion?
Much better than 0% of $1.5 trillion.

That's not the point. The point is the government is closing the loop on that 0%.. meaning all that money will be taxed at the normal 15 - 35% for business income.

The lobbyists are saying they need a year of 5% taxes and pledging to use the extra money they'd receive in profits to "stimulate jobs"

They're begging "please please don't make me pay taxes on the money I purposely kept out of the country to try and avoid paying taxes on.... pretty please?"

Senator Bernie Sander's list of top 10 companies who are cheating and avoiding income tax:

---
1) ExxonMobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
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