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Samsung again delays Australian Galaxy Tab 10.1 launch in Apple suit

post #1 of 29
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Samsung and Apple returned to court in their ongoing patent infringement dispute Monday in Australia, and Samsung agreed to once again delay the launch of its Galaxy Tab 10.1, this time through at least Sept. 30.

While the launch of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 down under has been delayed yet again, Samsung also gave indication it intends to fight back with a cross-claim accusing Apple's iPad of patent infringement, according to The Sydney Morning Herald. As part of the ongoing dispute, Samsung will not sell or advertise the Galaxy Tab 10.1 before September 30.

Earlier this month, Apple's patent infringement claims forced Samsung to delay the launch of its new touchscreen tablet in Australia. But the company hoped that a modified version of the device would avoid any potential infringement claims.

However, lawyers representing Apple reportedly told the court that last week Samsung delivered three samples of a modified Galaxy Tab 10.1, and the company felt those devices still infringed on patents owned by Apple.

"Apple's counsel said that while the modified version had 'some reduced functionality,' it 'will still infringe,'" the report said. "They sought orders from the court re-affirming the previous block on sales of the US model and asked for a new order to prevent the sale of the Australian version at least until a hearing can take place at teh end of September."

The Galaxy Tab 10.1 was originally set to launch on Sept. 12, but Justice Annabelle Bennett questioned why the company would launch the product on that date with the chance of it being pulled from shelves only a few weeks later. Samsung's lawyers then agreed to delay the launch until at least Sept. 30.

Apple is scheduled to provide a comprehensive statement of facts on Sept. 5, and Samsung will provide a counter to that on Sept. 16. A formal hearing in the case is scheduled to take place on Sept. 26 and 29.



In addition to Australia, sales of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 have also been barred in Germany due to Apple's patent infringement claims. Samsung's Galaxy Smartphones were also banned from sale across the European Union.

Apple first sued Samsung in April, accusing its rival of copying the look and feel of its popular iPhone and iPad products. Samsung has fired back with its own patent infringement allegations, and the legal battle has since spread across the globe. Last week, a California court decided Apple's patent infringement suit against Samsung will start on July 30, 2012.
post #2 of 29
This is terrible setback for Samsung's reputation and brand image. "Samsung accused of slavishly copying iPad," scream 100,000 headlines a month until July 2012. "Samsung products are premeditated copycats of Apple's intellectual property," or "Samsung rips off Apple's hit products, lies about it, and tricks it''s customers in order to make a profit." How embarrassing it must be for Samsung's employees and it's global retailers to see endless negative headlines exposing the company's corrupt business model and it's executives unethical and dishonest behavior. Shame on you Samsung.

And it's not just one product. Samsung has been accused of slavishly copying the iPad, IPhone 3G and iPhone 4. It's too much to be a coincidence and it's clear they're hoping to confuse and trick the non-tech savvy consumer into thinking that Samsung's products are similar to and better that Apple's products. And it's certainly pathetic that a company like Samsung resorts to copying another company's product line as their default business model. Today, Samsung's reputation is that they copy everyone else rather than innovate in the tech world.

Apple innovates, Samsung can't. Apple makes products that people WANT to buy, Samsung tricks them into buying theirs. Apple treats its customers with respect, Samsung lies to them. Apple leads in tech, Samsung won't. The Apple brand is respected, Samsung sucks.
post #3 of 29
In many ways Apple has arguably paved the way for what a modern smart phone is and does. Likewise the same could be arguably said with tablets.

Personally, I'm sick of all the legal wrangling. I don't see either side coming out of this being a clear winner... except for the lawyers that is.

Enough already, just work it all out get back to making great stuff.
post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

In many ways Apple has arguably paved the way for what a modern smart phone is and does. Likewise the same could be arguably said with tablets.

Personally, I'm sick of all the legal wrangling. I don't see either side coming out of this being a clear winner... except for the lawyers that is.

Enough already, just work it all out get back to making great stuff.

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?
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post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

Bashing Apple?

Lighten up... the poster didn't even come close to bashing Apple.
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post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?....

I enjoyed your sarcasm, but it's funny how much it looked like the first iPhone
I want to play with a mango phone, see if I can find anything original or convincing in it
Fact is, it's impossible for me to bitch about my iPhone 4, it does do what it needs, and lots more incredibly well
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

Rectangular,
Rounded corner,
Touchscreen,
Centered screen,

It must be an Apple.

For Christ's sake, they even have a mic and loudspeakers.

Can nobody be original?
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

Umm... I wasn't bashing anyone. Where did that come from?
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

The hardware looks very similar to the iPhone. The OS looks different because it has tiles rather than icons but it still behaves the same.
post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

In many ways Apple has arguably paved the way for what a modern smart phone is and does. Likewise the same could be arguably said with tablets.

Personally, I'm sick of all the legal wrangling. I don't see either side coming out of this being a clear winner... except for the lawyers that is.

Enough already, just work it all out get back to making great stuff.

I beg to differ!

Was reading Steve's full Bio and there were so many mistakes and in the middle of those there was one - MS copying the Mac OS with Win 95!

One thing you cannot ever say about Steve - and Steve is Apple is Steve - is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes.

They've been precious to him and us - and that's what has brought us all to this day and age where you have wonderfully executed and styled and effective and genius iPhone and iPad and the coming iTV/iPlay.

I'm absolutely on the opposite field: just keep slamming those fakers Steve/Apple!

Apple isn't attacking anybody, that is a loser speech. They're just defending the 10+ years of R&D, the millions of investing, the sweating in developing beautiful products that you and I would love.

Steve/Apple is upholding the TRUTH like Arthur holding Excalibur high!

It's not just fighting for achieving an iPod like market also on phones and tablets - that's an impossibility btw.

Yes, it's about LOVE and self-love/self-esteem and defending what is RIGHT and LIGHT! Fighting for your work, effort, investment, love not to be cheapened or plainly stolen.

These guys are just thieving! And now right about learning they cannot get away with that. Too right, just buy out WebOS and get out of the way!

Right on Steve/Apple, charge on and nail them up on a dark corner

What these people are learning hard is that, provided Apple is upright and shining high, the time of thieving and cloning and riding on other company's effort-investment-money in coming to an end.

And like Microsoft-Nokia, they've got to go to the drawing board and put in the years of design and investment with WebOS like HP tried but didn't succeed due to uninspired (to not go any further) CEOs.

Even MS isn't pulling their (copying) prank again anymore! Times they are a-changing indeed!

Long live Steve, long live Apple (you all: Hey Hey)
post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

You're absolutely right!

Now having taken a look at that Mango HTC phone, it scared me because it is really beautiful and attractive and I just bet it's got all the bells and whistles for the mainstream not-as-exquisite-tasteful person. A beautiful smartphone indeed.

It really looks like it is coming from the legacy windows phone products. I owned the QTek/HTC S200 and it had turn by turn navigation with an external GPS device. I just had it in my hand, quite heavy and clunky but it worked!

It was NOT my dream phone - the iPhone and the just now leaked iPhone 5 (Apple Swiss website YouTube video) are!

And they pulled this prank on you - you could not EVER update the OS, in order to do that you had to purchase a new (smart)phone! That is unbelievable but they did it!

Kudos for HTC + MS for developing their legacy platform and updating it to a modern-like one.

That is competition, that is creativity at work, that's not stealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

The hardware looks very similar to the iPhone. The OS looks different because it has tiles rather than icons but it still behaves the same.

As per my a.m. reference, HTC Winphones were there prior to the iPhone. Apple did not invent the handheld music player (iPod) or the smartphone, they've just done it better and revolutionized the market place.

That's why Apple CANNOT EVER allow others to come steal their work, ever again.

A smartphone will always be a smartphone. It's a computer with (disguised as a) phone functionality.

I hope Apple really leverages on manufacturing and mass component ordering plus other efficiency techniques so that price won't be a criteria for someone to opt for such MS-HTC devices, only (bad) taste.

Let's face it, not everybody is tasteful, elegant and sophisticated like Apple users. So there will be space for others too. To each his own.
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcs View Post

Rectangular,
Rounded corner,
Touchscreen,
Centered screen,

It must be an Apple.

For Christ's sake, they even have a mic and loudspeakers.

Can nobody be original?

Geez, in the only case where smartphones have been subject to a preliminary ban (in the Netherlands) the judge preliminarilly disagreed with all of Apple's arguments about form factor, physical appearance, and hardware components. It all came down to software capabilities. As I understand it, the same situation is pretty much true with the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia.

The only jurisdiction in which Apple appears to have had some some preliminary success arguing about form factor has been with the preliminary injunction against the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Germany. That ban is still preliminary, subject to further filings on both sides, and a final ruling in the future. And it does not relate to smartphones.

So, for the time being, for smartphones at least, we can pretty safely leave the physical appearance out of the discussion altogether.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

The same patent infringement that Apple claims against Samsung could also be claimed against Microsoft's smartphones. They're the same general shape that Apple claims to uniquely own, both make use of gestures, both have touchscreens. . . in essence not so different according to Apple's argument.

But the chance of them suing Microsoft is slim to none IMO.
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post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

The same patent infringement that Apple claims against Samsung could also be claimed against Microsoft's smartphones. They're the same general shape that Apple claims to uniquely own, both make use of gestures, both have touchscreens. . . in essence not so different according to Apple's argument.

But the chance of them suing Microsoft is slim to none IMO.

That is, of course, absurd.

Put that WP7 phone next to an iPhone.

Now, put one of the Samsung phones in question next to an iPhone.

Can you really sit there and say that you can't tell why the Samsung situation is different than the HTC Mango phone situation? If so, you need new glasses. Or new eyes.
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post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Put that WP7 phone next to an iPhone.

Now, put one of the Samsung phones in question next to an iPhone.

Can you really sit there and say that you can't tell why the Samsung situation is different than the HTC Mango phone situation? If so, you need new glasses. Or new eyes.

I'll do it for him. You know, just in case his fingers get too tired to do three image searches.



DISCLAIMER: I made them all the same size. I HOPE THAT'S OKAY FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE DON'T HURT ME. I figured, you know, since the size of the device has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, it would be okay to make them all the same size for the sake of aesthetics.

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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

a hearing can take place at teh end of September."

A mistaken quote should be followed by [sic] meaning you understand the typo was in the source document and you didn't just mistakenly transpose it. Again, basic journalism that AI seems unaware of. I'm really curious who's watching all this. Articles are otherwise good.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'll do it for him. You know, just in case his fingers get too tired to do three image searches.



DISCLAIMER: I made them all the same size. I HOPE THAT'S OKAY FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE DON'T HURT ME. I figured, you know, since the size of the device has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, it would be okay to make them all the same size for the sake of aesthetics.

Apple isn't claiming anything about the way the screen appears. . . yet. All their patent claims used in court so far have to do with the touchscreen (MS uses one), gestures (MS uses them) and the general shape. In the case of the specific MS-based phone image that was linked, that particular phone does not have as rounded a corner. Would that necessarily stop Apple from claiming it infringes one of their EU design patents if it was a commercial success? Dunno. But Apple wouldn't sue them anyway IMHO.

Now do I think the Mango OS in use looks similar to Apple's? Nope. They took an extra few years to make sure it didn't. That doesn't mean they don't use some of the same IP that Apple claims against Samsung.

fBTW, it wouldn't be seen as misleading by some if you posted home-screen views for all three phones, instead of just two of them.
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post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really funny to see people say "a smart phone HAS to look like the iPhone. There's no other way to make one" considering the way all the smart phones looked before the iPhone came out.

More importantly, look at the newest Windows 7 Mango phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...selector-blogs

HTC and Microsoft just managed to prove that it IS possible to make a phone with full functionality that doesn't look anything like an iPhone. So let's drop the silly "there's no other way to make a phone" argument, OK?

Instead of bashing Apple for protecting its intellectual property, why aren't you bashing Samsung and Google for their failure to innovate?

I believe everybody here knows a knock off when they see it. Samsung is clearly guilty of that strategy. That said, this look and feel defense by Apple is silly, on the surface, in my opinion. Apple's defensive lawsuit will never survive in the long term to stopping knockoffs and I think they know it. It's my guess Apple is trying to protect short term profits and to discourage competitors with this suit.

The reality is that there isn't many hardware design options for phone makers to use in the smart phone business. Apple defined what a smart phone should be like but they realistically can't believe they'll own the design concepts for long. Apple innovates and others follow. That's the nature of any business. They know it. These lawsuits are, IMO, meant to preserve as much short term profit as possible.

It was the same defense during the early desktop metaphor wars and this is a repeat performance for the mobile hardware business. Software and how good it functions will ultimately determine who wins or loses.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'll do it for him. You know, just in case his fingers get too tired to do three image searches.



DISCLAIMER: I made them all the same size. I HOPE THAT'S OKAY FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE DON'T HURT ME. I figured, you know, since the size of the device has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, it would be okay to make them all the same size for the sake of aesthetics.

you're cheating!

the latter 2 are home screens
The first one isn't a home screen
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by XamaX View Post

I beg to differ!

Was reading Steve's full Bio and there were so many mistakes and in the middle of those there was one - MS copying the Mac OS with Win 95!

One thing you cannot ever say about Steve - and Steve is Apple is Steve - is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes.

They've been precious to him and us - and that's what has brought us all to this day and age where you have wonderfully executed and styled and effective and genius iPhone and iPad and the coming iTV/iPlay.

I'm absolutely on the opposite field: just keep slamming those fakers Steve/Apple!

Apple isn't attacking anybody, that is a loser speech. They're just defending the 10+ years of R&D, the millions of investing, the sweating in developing beautiful products that you and I would love.

Steve/Apple is upholding the TRUTH like Arthur holding Excalibur high!

It's not just fighting for achieving an iPod like market also on phones and tablets - that's an impossibility btw.

Yes, it's about LOVE and self-love/self-esteem and defending what is RIGHT and LIGHT! Fighting for your work, effort, investment, love not to be cheapened or plainly stolen.

These guys are just thieving! And now right about learning they cannot get away with that. Too right, just buy out WebOS and get out of the way!

Right on Steve/Apple, charge on and nail them up on a dark corner

What these people are learning hard is that, provided Apple is upright and shining high, the time of thieving and cloning and riding on other company's effort-investment-money in coming to an end.

And like Microsoft-Nokia, they've got to go to the drawing board and put in the years of design and investment with WebOS like HP tried but didn't succeed due to uninspired (to not go any further) CEOs.

Even MS isn't pulling their (copying) prank again anymore! Times they are a-changing indeed!

Long live Steve, long live Apple (you all: Hey Hey)

What part of my post could have possibly offended you?

I never said that Apple did anything wrong? I never insinuated that I supported Samsung and was against Apple. I simply stated that it would be nice if the legal stuff could get settled so that we can focus on making cool devices.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather read about cool new devices and new technology than about who is suing who. Again, regardless of my feelings on the lawsuits, I don't see anyone winning here but the lawyers.

Holster your guns friend.
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

BTW, it wouldn't be seen as misleading by some if you posted home-screen views for all three phones, instead of just two of them.

All right, I'll indulge you. For which OS isn't that the Home Screen?

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post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

All right, I'll indulge you. For which OS isn't that the Home Screen?

I figured you knew that the Samsung is showing a sub-menu rather than the home screenThat particular view is the AppDrawer, a menu screen that's (usually) called up from the quick-access keys at the bottom of the screen. It simply holds all the installed apps, nothing more, in one location, which is why it's only showing icons, and they're all sorted alphabetically. An Android home-screen looks much different.

That's a good reason to compare Apple's to Apple's
Otherwise it confuses those who aren't familiar with the OS's, leading them to believe something that may not be true.
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post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I figured you knew that the Samsung is showing a sub-menu rather than the home screen An Android home-screen looks much different.

Oh, is it? The last Android device I used was/is my iPhone running Android 1.6, so I figured things had changed since then.

What was 1.6 called? We have Froyo, which I think was 2.2, then Honecomb (3.0?) and Ice Cream Sandwich (3.1? 4.0?)

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post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, is it? The last Android device I used was/is my iPhone running Android 1.6, so I figured things had changed since then.

What was 1.6 called? We have Froyo, which I think was 2.2, then Honecomb (3.0?) and Ice Cream Sandwich (3.1? 4.0?)

I've lost track of all the cute little names Google has given their updates. I do know Ice Cream Sandwich is supposed to be the next big update, due in just a few weeks. But I don't know for sure if it's 4.x or what.
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post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I've lost track of all the cute little names Google has given their updates. I do know Ice Cream Sandwich is supposed to be the next big update, due in just a few weeks. But I don't know for sure if it's 4.x or what.

Which in true Google form won't be available for 97.3% of the devices out there.

My daughter's last Android phone was stuck at 1.6. They didn't make an update available (they have been promising it for well over a year, though).

Her new phone (just received 2 weeks ago) came with 2.1 - and no signs of anything newer available.
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post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Which in true Google form won't be available for 97.3% of the devices out there.

My daughter's last Android phone was stuck at 1.6. They didn't make an update available (they have been promising it for well over a year, though).

Wow. 1.6?? Almost makes it a collectible. Less than 3% of Android phones are on a version before 2.x

http://developer.android.com/resourc...-versions.html
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post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I figured you knew that the Samsung is showing a sub-menu rather than the home screen An Android home-screen looks much different.

Well, to be fair, an Android home screen may be customized by the OEM, but I think it basically consists of a more-or-less free-form space which the user can customize by docking "widgets", associated with either built-in or user-installed apps. Widgets may be simple links to installed applications, or they may be interactive mini-applications in their own right. They may have the basic form-factor of an application icon, or they may be larger -- potentially taking up most of the phone's screen. The homescreen allows you to swipe back and forth among several screens of such docked widgets.

If a user wished, they could hypothetically customize their homescreen to consist only of a grid of iconic links to their installed applications, in which case it would look a heck of a lot like an iPhone. But that would be the user's own customization, and it is BY NO MEANS the default appearance of a typical Android homescreen.
post #28 of 29
Today's newest twist: The Australian court has told Apple that if it wants to block Tab sales there, the Judge needs to see actual iPad2 sales figures for both the US and UK, something Apple has not divulged before. Should be interesting to see exactly how many have been sold here in the US compared to the total production.
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post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Today's newest twist: The Australian court has told Apple that if it wants to block Tab sales there, the Judge needs to see actual iPad2 sales figures for both the US and UK, something Apple has not divulged before. Should be interesting to see exactly how many have been sold here in the US compared to the total production.

Been to various shopping malls this past week and I don't recall seeing the Galaxy Tab anywhere. Asus something or other is around but most people seem to be, as usual, milling around the iPad2.

The Galaxy smartphone seems to be top of the heap of Android phones though, I played with one, nice, but... nothing compelling to pull me into the Android camp. Not at this stage anyway.
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