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Samsung rumored to buy webOS to compete with Apple's iOS, Mac OS X - Page 2

post #41 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post



I really hope you're right, but I'm not so sure.

The thing is, WebOS is actually a great OS, far better than Android in conception and execution. And Samsung, despite their complete lack of any moral sense, is a smart successful company that knows how to execute.

WebOS for Palm was a beyond last ditch effort when the clock had *already* struck midnight on them. WebOS for HP was a disaster because HP always f*cks things like that up. It has a long history of turning pearls into swine.

Samsung could actually succeed here.

Yes and no. The UI is great, and that's about as far as it goes...the underlying OS is slow, the version of Webkit the browser is using dates back to late 2009...it needs a lot of work under the hood.

My real disappointment is how HP repeated all the mistakes Palm made (although Palm was on life support), and then 16 months after the fact, they crunch the numbers and figure that they want to be like IBM.

I say this as a Pre+ user, and will be getting my 32 GB TP today (for $150 it's a great deal, but at iPad prices, no one really wanted it, and it couldn't complete even with Honeycomb word of mouth).
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post #42 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:17am
It is kind of funny watching all this unfold, as Apple chugs along and basically competing against themselves at this point in the game. It is basically their game to loose, everyone else is fighting it out for what is left and no one seems to know what to do to makes themselves successful. Just because a company can sell a product and turn somewhat of a profit does not mean success, since at some point they will become irrelevant and die, if you compare them to Apple.

Even if one of these companies can some how figure out how to pull all the pieces together, it is too late, it is going to be hard for them to get any mind share with content owners, software developers and finally the consumer. In spite of the fact that people should not let their past purchases decisions dictate future one most people ignore this and keep buying what they always buy unless something fundamentally changes forcing a change.

Face it anyone who had bought an Apple iProduct they have large investment they are not going to give up just because another company came out with a Me Too product. Face Apple has people locked in at this point.
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post #43 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:18am
I hereby nominate this:

Apple Insider - THREAD OF THE YEAR
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post #44 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

If Samsung were to buy WebOS they'd probably do it for patents. They don't need another (failed) OS. Palm has been building PDAs for a long time so I presume they have a good portfolio of related patents that could be used to defend against Apple.

You think HP would sell the patents along with the OS? Any company in the mobile space would love to get their hands on those patents, but I don't think HP is going make it a bundle deal.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #45 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post



I really hope you're right, but I'm not so sure.

The thing is, WebOS is actually a great OS, far better than Android in conception and execution. And Samsung, despite their complete lack of any moral sense, is a smart successful company that knows how to execute.

WebOS for Palm was a beyond last ditch effort when the clock had *already* struck midnight on them. WebOS for HP was a disaster because HP always f*cks things like that up. It has a long history of turning pearls into swine.

Samsung could actually succeed here.

agreed. Would be interesting to see if it worked in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Yeah, the "walled garden" all the basement nerds and tech writers have been screaming about for years turns out to be the correct business model after all. So to compete you have to copy Apple's business model and call it competition.

Well, it seems to have worked very well Android without the "walled garden" hasn't it. Doh!

I'm sorry if my view that having several vendors with a could good platforms to keep innovation, competition, rivalry feeding us consumers awesome products every year ruffles some feathers.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #46 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:30am
WebOS vs. Mac OS X ... really ? ....... REALLY??
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post #47 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

If Samsung were to buy WebOS they'd probably do it for patents. They don't need another (failed) OS. Palm has been building PDAs for a long time so I presume they have a good portfolio of related patents that could be used to defend against Apple.

I think it's safe to say palm has some great patents. Remember, Palm actually created a work around to get their devices to sync with iTunes, Apple made some noise about protecting their IP but they didn't do anything. If samsung were buying Palm, it would most likely be for these. Bada is basically touchwiz without android, so most of the lawsuits Apple is bringing against touchwiz android devices can be brought against Bada devices.

Which brings up the point of why people who LIKE webOS shouldn't want Samsung to have it: Touchwiz WebOS devices.
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post #48 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Like?

Err all of them, apart from a few from WP7. I don't think anyone can argue that iOS5 has 1 origional feature.
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post #49 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Rim makes more sense for WebOS than Samsung.

1. They NEED an OS. The whole tablet that won't work without out phone, and new phones that still have an ancient approach to the web are embarrassing for (or because of?) a once "cutting edge" company with TWO (count 'em) CEO's...

Of course integrating that with their approach to corporate messaging, which was their whole business model, might not work at all. Unless they bring over the WebOS guy and have THREE CEO's. Yeah. That's the ticket......

2. WebOS would be a wedge and patent hedge for Samsung and probably not go anywhere under their tutelage. They've shown little ability to get promised software bits out for their own products, and WebOS is a whole 'nother animal. So it would just languish there like Amiga did as it got passed around.



I tried to pick up a TouchPad for $99 - it did enough well enough to be useful for me - but got cancelled out by a company that oversold its inventory. Meanwhile, seeing the markups being applied on eBay, I checked and WebOS has neither a DropBox orr SugarSync client. It really is quite isolated.

However, those who scarfed up a bunch of TP's are doing quite well - doubling their money and more in every active auction. So there's still a faint hope, certainly a demand.

Lastly, though, HP still seems to have some kind of plans for WebOS as an enabling technology elsewhere in their business. Printers keep being referenced well after the hardware got the kibosh. Not sure what they're (still?) so excited about here....

The only reason for the demand is because they are being sold for a fraction of what they cost HP to make. The TP is a dead product HP is selling the inventory and there are no more being made. THE TP HAS NO FUTURE.
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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post #50 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by domerdel2 View Post

WebOS vs. Mac OS X ... really ? ....... REALLY??

yeah that's pretty bonehead for sure.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #51 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

Yes and no. The UI is great, and that's about as far as it goes...the underlying OS is slow, the version of Webkit the browser is using dates back to late 2009...it needs a lot of work under the hood.

My real disappointment is how HP repeated all the mistakes Palm made (although Palm was on life support), and then 16 months after the fact, they crunch the numbers and figure that they want to be like IBM.

I say this as a Pre+ user, and will be getting my 32 GB TP today (for $150 it's a great deal, but at iPad prices, no one really wanted it, and it couldn't complete even with Honeycomb word of mouth).

As a Pre user you probably have better insight into the OS than I do so I'm sure you're right.

When I said it was better than Android I was thinking more in the abstract and not from the point of view of daily use. It's far more open than Android (the famous "open" OS), it's based on free open technology and it's a beautiful design with great attention to detail and usability just as iOS is.

Android on the other hand is just a mess of conflicting details and UI's, half of it is stolen, only part of it is open source, the underlying reasons for it's existence are to help the distributors and sellers of mobile contracts and advertisements instead of the user, etc. etc.

From what I've heard a lot of the tech community feels this way about WebOS (that it "should" be the competition to iOS instead of Android), but WebOS has been bungled so much that it's hard to tell if it could be fantastic or if it's something that just looks good but ultimately isn't.
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post #52 of 146
8/29/11 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You think HP would sell the patents along with the OS? Any company in the mobile space would love to get their hands on those patents, but I don't think HP is going make it a bundle deal.

HP could easily include a license to the patents in the sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

The only reason for the demand is because they are being sold for a fraction of what they cost HP to make. The TP is a dead product HP is selling the inventory and there are no more being made. THE TP HAS NO FUTURE.

Correction - HP is ALLEGEDLY selling the inventory. So far, I haven't seen any signs that they're actually shipping product. Their chat line told me today that the order status web page is broken and has been since Aug 23. WTF? Has ANYONE actually received their Touchpads from HP?

Here's the summary of how HP handles customer support:
"I placed two orders with you over a week ago and am not receiving information on the status. The online status is saying the same thing that it has said for 8 days - processing. I received an email 4 days ago stating that I would get a confirmation within 3 days - and that has not happened. I have tried your 800 number twice. The first time I was online for over an hour before I gave up. I am currently trying it again - but I've been on hold 2 hours and no one has answered. I tried sending an email, but I have not received any response after 3 days. I've tried your online chat - and different representatives give me very different answers."

HP - epic fail.
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post #53 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Like?



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post #54 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

err all of them, apart from a few from wp7. I don't think anyone can argue that ios5 has 1 origional feature.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

(capsblocker)
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That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #55 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

lol that's hilarious. then how do you explain iOS5 being filled with Android features?

I think Apple fell asleep at the wheel and is now playing catchup. They may sell the most phones, but Android as a platform is kicking iOS's butt.

Is that right numb nuts? I love Android losers. They lie. They're stupid. Thanks for the chuckles.

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post #56 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post




Why is it that people seem to forget that the "new" notifications in iOS5 are from someone who use to have the same notifications on cydia BEFORE android had its OMG INNOVATIVE notifications?
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post #57 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:11am
I am sure that will workout as well for Samsung as it did for Palm and HP..... Fools.
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post #58 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

...BEFORE android...

Any proof?
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post #59 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

HP could easily include a license to the patents in the sale.

Obviously they would. But having a license to the patents and owning the patents are two very, very different things.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #60 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:23am
It would be a mistake for Samsung to buy WebOS because they can not maintain it and develop and improve it. It takes a special breed of people to develop successful Operating Systems and Samsung does not have these people.

Microsoft, Apple, IBM , HP all have such people. Linux uses resources from IBM, Red Hat etc... Google is not an OS developer either that's why Android is kinda lump sided even though they illegally used Java.

It would be better for Samsung to license WebOS and let HP develop it and create an ecosystem for it. They would not be sued if they license WebOS from HP like they are with Android.

HP would have to sell WebOS along with the patents behind it otherwise the new owner would get nailed with lawsuits.

Time will tell.
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post #61 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:29am
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again whilst expecting different results.

HOWEVER, should Samsung make a 8.53" tablet, they might have something. Or a 10.65".
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post #62 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:30am
I am reading the book "ON Intelligence" - a new theory on how the brain works. It was written by Jeff Hawkins, the man who created the PalmPilot and the Treo Smartphone. A number of Jeff's presentations are on YouTube. If his systems were as interesting as his book, I think they have enough of a solid foundation to go somewhere.
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post #63 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post

Any proof?

My googlefu shows me that lockscreen info from cydia came out in 2009 while the notifications bar in Android came out in 2010 but I am more than open for further evidence.
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post #64 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:34am
I would love to see this happen, if only for the fact that I've always predicted that Samsung and HTC would ditch Android in a minute if they saw better opportunities with some other OS.

But it would also be nice to see all the fandroids heads exploding if 1 of the only 2 companies that seem to have any success with Android phones would move away from the platform, of course .
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post #65 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

WebOS for HP was a disaster because HP always f*cks things like that up. It has a long history of turning pearls into swine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

you certainly 'f'ed up that quote from Matthew 7:6

I think it was intentional, and rather creative and humorous at that.
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post #66 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:40am
Apple sells about 20M iPhones a Qtr right?

Thats about 20M/90=> 222'000 per day

I have read that Android is claiming 500'000 activations per day => 45M phones per Qtr


So per year Iphone 80M should rise to about 100M per year by Dec 2011
Android OS Phones 180M per year and rising. There is some doubt attached to using Android activations as legitimate value but that is all we have because android data is sales channel, only not real sold devices.

Essentially iPhone is a new manufacturer capturing about 25% of market starting from zero a few years ago. Android powered Phones are garnering about 55% of market , replacing Symbian OS running on the old dumb phones.

In a nutshell, there isn't really a pure IOS vs Android battle happening. Its more like two new guys in town both taking out the dominant player and the new punk (iOS) muscling in on some of that action and got a head start on the saloon.

Oh and that doesn't even include iPad and Ipodtouch, which basically doubles iOS 's share

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

lol that's hilarious. then how do you explain iOS5 being filled with Android features?

So in pure numbers they are about even, its neck and neck, and the second bar fight is about to begin, fun ahead

I think Apple fell asleep at the wheel and is now playing catchup. They may sell the most phones, but Android as a platform is kicking iOS's butt.
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post #67 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Why is it that people seem to forget that the "new" notifications in iOS5 are from someone who use to have the same notifications on cydia BEFORE android had its OMG INNOVATIVE notifications?

where is this cydia notification panel bar that I keep hearing about and when was it released?
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post #68 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post


....In a nutshell, there isn't really a pure IOS vs Android battle happening. Its more like two new guys in town both taking out the dominant player....

^^This

None will destroy the other.

Through innovation at least. The only way to destroy Android is through litigation. As even if Apple truly owns the top tier market Android still won't fade.
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post #69 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

My googlefu shows me that lockscreen info from cydia came out in 2009 while the notifications bar in Android came out in 2010 but I am more than open for further evidence.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t...e-and-wrap-up/

The pull-down notification bar was already there in 2008.
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post #70 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Apple sells about 20M iPhones a Qtr right?

Thats about 20M/90=> 222'000 per day

I have read that Android is claiming 500'000 activations per day => 45M phones per Qtr


So per year Iphone 80M should rise to about 100M per year by Dec 2011
Android OS Phones 180M per year and rising. There is some doubt attached to using Android activations as legitimate value but that is all we have because android data is sales channel, only not real sold devices.

Essentially iPhone is a new manufacturer capturing about 25% of market starting from zero a few years ago. Android powered Phones are garnering about 55% of market , replacing Symbian OS running on the old dumb phones.

In a nutshell, there isn't really a pure IOS vs Android battle happening. Its more like two new guys in town both taking out the dominant player and the new punk (iOS) muscling in on some of that action and got a head start on the saloon.

Oh and that doesn't even include iPad and Ipodtouch, which basically doubles iOS 's share

The primary issue is, for all this market share braggadocio, whether anyone other than Apple (and the carriers) is making much money, and if so how much.

I'd love to see actual segment profit numbers for the key players. (In case someone is thinking of bringing in the "market share = developers" argument, please: it's not even a semi-credible contest).
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post #71 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

^^This

None will destroy the other.

Through innovation at least. The only way to destroy Android is through litigation. As even if Apple truly owns the top tier market Android still won't fade.

Wrong. The only way to destroy Android is if Google becomes a manufacturer of smartphones.

Wait. What?! Oh yeah... that already happened.

I give Android 2 more good years.
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post #72 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

where is this cydia notification panel bar that I keep hearing about and when was it released?

I answered that after the post you quoted.

Edit: did a little more research and it seems that the beta was available in 2008
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post #73 of 146
8/29/11 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Apple sells about 20M iPhones a Qtr right?

Thats about 20M/90=> 222'000 per day

I have read that Android is claiming 500'000 activations per day => 45M phones per Qtr

[]

Oh and that doesn't even include iPad and Ipodtouch, which basically doubles iOS 's share

Also note that it's actual sales as documented at the end of a quarter and then extracted to a per day average by dividing by 90 v. activations per day without any time frame reference given, without indicating actual sales, or how activations are counted (e.g.: Someone buys an Android-based device, activates it, hates it, returns it yet it's still counted -or- Someone buys an Android-based device, activates it, hates it, flashes it, sells it on Craig's List, someone else activates it).
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post #74 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalpen View Post

Samsung flat out said they weren't buying out HP's PC business.

HP said they were giving up on the hardware for WebOS not the software.

Licensing WebOS?

Who really cares either way, they both suck. Neither can sell their product because their products suck.

Have you ever actually used WebOS?
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post #75 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:06am
There's never been room for 3 real competitors in the desktop world... I don't know if the mobile world is any different. There just always seems to be that odd 3rd step-child that never gets any traction... whether it is 'better' or not.


Eventually, Apple will license iOS... when the margins in the hardware are too tight, and the App Store is making billions on its own.
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post #76 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

My googlefu shows me that lockscreen info from cydia came out in 2009 while the notifications bar in Android came out in 2010 but I am more than open for further evidence.

Notification bar was present on the G1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMSZzseX2zA
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post #77 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t...e-and-wrap-up/

The pull-down notification bar was already there in 2008.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Notification bar was present on the G1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMSZzseX2zA

Which came out in 2008
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post #78 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Which came out in 2008

You implied that it came out in 2010. It didn't it was on the FIRST android device launched.

You said that the Cydia store option came out before the announcement of the G1?
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post #79 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:15am
It's entirely possible they want WebOS for the IP, rather than the OS itself. Remember, they are fighting battles with Apple and potentially now Google after the Motorola Mobility acqusition. WebOS has a nice UI and incorporates technical features that are not yet in iOS or Android. They could be hoping either to sidestep other companies' patents, or cross-license.

Apple has managed to block various Samsung Android devices in Europe and now Australia. This might be temporary, but if they stick, then Samsung needs a Plan B.
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post #80 of 146
8/29/11 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post



I really hope you're right, but I'm not so sure.

The thing is, WebOS is actually a great OS, far better than Android in conception and execution. And Samsung, despite their complete lack of any moral sense, is a smart successful company that knows how to execute.

WebOS for Palm was a beyond last ditch effort when the clock had *already* struck midnight on them. WebOS for HP was a disaster because HP always f*cks things like that up. It has a long history of turning pearls into swine.

Samsung could actually succeed here.

Samsung can't succeed with WebOS, but it would be great if they tried. And afterwards if they sold it to HTC, and then they sold it to....

You have to ask yourself exactly what WebOS competed against when it failed twice. If you say iOS, Android, etc..., then you're missing the main reasons why it failed. It never competed against iOS; instead it competed against the iOS ecosystem.

One can argue that WebOS was better or worse than iOS. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a little better or a little worse, it lacked everything that made iPhones and iPads and iPods and the Apple TV succeed.

So like HP before it, and Palm before that, Samsung would have no apps, no app store, no music store, few accessories; no integration with cars, alarm clocks, or stereo systems.

Of course Samsung, can build some of that and integrate the WebOS platform into some of their other products, but that's a major investment with a lot of risk. Their only strength is in the hardware, they have no real relevant history in terms of development of what is needed for the platform to succeed as a whole.
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