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AirPlay + AppleTV + iTV = Disruption in CONSOLE industry?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Was just having a chat with a friend on Apple's next move and found it quite interesting. When you read reports like this and see people say that Apple will release an epic TV with iOS in it, it doesn't sound significant enough to disrupt the industry. But when you look at AirPlay mirroring on the iPad and the increasing focus on gaming by Apple, it starts to get more interesting:

What if Apple release a TV that provides graphics acceleration for full HD games via AirPlay mirroring? Then you really get into the whole halo effect again with something real for people with iOS devices to lust after. Of course Apple will up its game with its media content via iTunes, but I think gaming will be one huge part of Apple's TV strategy. What do you guys think?
post #2 of 15
So you think that Apple will return to the TV set market with a video game monitor integrated with Bose speakers? With ideas like this you ought to be working for Apple!
post #3 of 15
Absolute insanity.

I'm not just rehashing the Pippin argument. This whole idea is nuts.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #4 of 15
Well, whatever happens; they cannot be calling it iTV, or ITV will be suing them.

Whether Apple releases a TV or not, I feel that it would be to high prices to really reach out on the market, that's if Apple wants to make profit.
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ View Post

Well, whatever happens; they cannot be calling it iTV, or ITV will be suing them.

Except they called the original "iTV" originally, and everyone was fine with it.

Quote:
Whether Apple releases a TV or not, I feel that it would be to high prices to really reach out on the market, that's if Apple wants to make profit.

That and no one selling televisions makes profit on the televisions themselves.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ View Post

...

Whether Apple releases a TV or not, I feel that it would be to high prices to really reach out on the market, that's if Apple wants to make profit.

And yet, Apple's tablets are competitively priced--at or below the price of the competition. Its lightweight laptops retail for less than the production costs of the competition. Apple cell phones are competitively priced. The TV is in the same price range as the competition. It is only logical, therefore, that with most of its other products competitively priced, Apple will reenter the TV set market with premium priced offerings.
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgbwnet View Post

What if Apple release a TV that provides graphics acceleration for full HD games via AirPlay mirroring?

iOS 5 has HD gaming via Airplay so no need for a special TV:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/17/...l-racing-2-hd/

There are a few downsides to iOS gaming. I think the iPad is too big to use as a controller and both have too few methods of control.

If you compare an iPhone or iPod to an XBox controller, your thumbs control the vast majority of buttons but there are 4 shoulder buttons on the XBox controller. You need these for better control so that you can aim, move and shoot reliably at the same time. If they were to make the iPod and iPhone into a better gaming platform, they could add capacitive shoulder buttons and just exclude the iPad from certain games.

The other downside to iOS gaming is that the developers target very short development cycles. This works great for Apple with their yearly product launches but not so great for good immersive games. There's nothing stopping developers releasing for example a full version of Mass Effect for iOS but by the time they port it over and test it, another two iterations of iPhone will have come out and they'll have aimed for the current one.

I do like the idea of sitting on a sofa, pulling out the iPhone and setting it to mirror to a TV and just do a bit of gaming using the iPhone as the controller and then put it away and watch TV again but I don't see it taking off until there are better controls and better games. Better controls is easy, better games probably just needs some more time.

John Carmack said the iPad 2 is about half the performance of an XBox 360. The hardware spec seems to put it at 15% but it depends on what you measure and Carmack would know what he's talking about having put Rage on both the XBox and iOS platform. This would place an iPhone 5 at this level too. The consoles target 60fps, iOS devices can target 30fps and you can tone down the graphics a bit and get XBox 360-like visuals.

It may cause issues not having multiple controllers but imagine two friends with an iPod Touch each and the same Real Racing game connecting to the screen - each iPod only has to render half the resolution in split-screen so it bumps up the frame-rate.

There was a comment from an EA employee commenting about the next-gen saying that they wouldn't know how to make the PS4 etc worthwhile. People are happy with the XBox and PS3 and sharpening geometry/smoothing motion only goes so far in improving the experience. Once graphics are good enough, you just expect it and other elements matter more.
post #8 of 15
I game regularly with my iPad 2 on my 52" HDTV via HDMI and I love it. The only thing lacking is developer support.

Have you played Pinball HD over HDMI? Wow. 1080p 60fps, smooth and beautiful. The iPad 2 is capable of a lot and all it takes it for people to take advantage. The accelerometer controls the camera movements and makes playing pinball seem like a roller coaster.

Also great is Ball Towers HD. WIthout having to look directly at the iPad, you can be really aggressive with the accelerometer and get great times. It currently does not support 1080p. It doesn't even support landscape mode, but man it's still awesome!

Edge Extended? Beautiful. Same deal, though. It doesn't support 1080p or landscape. How hard would this be to implement, though? After looking at Pinball HD, I'd think not hard at all.

Let's do it, people! Email your favorite iOS developers and ask for HDTV support.
post #9 of 15
I've been reading these rumors, like everyone else, for some time now. But as an AAPL investor, I have very mixed feelings about Apple trying to get into this (low margin) market. The major TV OEM's (Samsung, Sony and LG) are already Apple competitors in other areas. So, assuming Apple approached them for their manufacturing capacity, it's not as if they're going to be cutting Apple any breaks to help them achieve the % profit margin that Apple is used to. An Apple 27" Cinema Display (with no TV tuner) lists for about $1000. So one has to wonder what the price of a 42"-50" Apple TV would (need to) be?

What I'd prefer to see them do is forge partnerships with existing OEM's and try to get iOS and ATV into their sets. Getting more branded products out there is fine. But getting iOS into more and more people's minds and hands is also important. What would really make my day would be to wake up, turn on Bloomberg and have (sexy as she can be) Betty Liu announce that Apple was buying TIVO for $1.5 billion or so. And with that, nail down a deal with DirecTV and/or Dish for revised set top (iOS based) Tivos. I like the U/I of iOS and I like my old Tivo DVR (the final one offered on DirecTV years ago). I honestly can't see anything but a solid win/win with an Apple Tivo.
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post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post

But as an AAPL investor, I have very mixed feelings about Apple trying to get into this (low margin) market.

Don't worry; that's why they're not doing it.

Quote:
An Apple 27" Cinema Display (with no TV tuner) lists for about $1000.

And it's cheaper than any other panel of the same quality at that size.

Quote:
So one has to wonder what the price of a 42"-50" Apple TV would (need to) be?

With the giant sheet of glass plus the aluminum case, plus the 30 (yep) Bose (if you listen to the rumors) speakers plus the fact that the panel itself is OLED (again, according to these rumors)

I'd say around $5,000 for a 32".

Quote:
What I'd prefer to see them do is forge partnerships with existing OEM's and try to get iOS and ATV into their sets.

Apple won't be licensing anything again.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple won't be licensing anything again.

That's not written in stone - especially with a new CEO at the helm. Earlier this year, licensing of Airplay to A/V OEM's was under consideration. I lost track of the story and have no idea what's on or off the table at this point. And I believe they do license Airplay to Denon, among others.
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post #12 of 15
Bluetooth 4.0
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post

That's not written in stone - especially with a new CEO at the helm. Earlier this year, licensing of Airplay to A/V OEM's was under consideration. I lost track of the story and have no idea what's on or off the table at this point. And I believe they do license Airplay to Denon, among others.

Steve Jobs is Chairman of the Board. Even if he were not, his hand-picked successor is the right-hand man that he hired in 1998, Tim Cook. Below Cook is a pantheon of people who share a world view that has proven to be wildly successful. The most prominent of this group is Jonathan Ive. The Apple that we know today is the product of the collective talent and wisdom of these people. The notion that Tim Cook secretly held diametrically opposing views to those of Jobs and that he now has the opportunity to run Apple "his way" is pure fantasy.

This does not say that Apple will not reenter the TV set business. Its decision to return or stay out will be based on present circumstances and future projections, not on past conceptions. This thread has been devoted to the living room. I agree with all of the challenges that those who doubt Apple will return to the living room have written. However, there is a new element that has been ignored--ATSC-M/H (Mobile DTV), the digital standard for free broadcasts to mobile devices. The USA has been behind the curve in MDTV. Other nations are way ahead. However, more than 100 stations now broadcast their signal via MDTV in 78 US cities.

There will be dedicated receivers. However, the vast majority of receivers are expected to be cell phones. Notice that the device featuring the official MDTV logo is an iPhone. It would seem certain, therefore, that Apple will officially support reception of ATSC-M/H broadcast signals in its mobile iOS devices. When you consider that every other cell phone and tablet manufacturer will also support MDTV, there is no credible argument against Apple's entry into this new market.

The question remains about the living room and den. This is an old market that Apple has already abandoned once. It will need a good reason to return. Customers will need a good reason to buy. Apple has a lot to offer the smart TV customer. Over-the-air broadcasts are not a problem. The problem is cable. Cable is a morass of subtle and sometimes brazen conflicts. There is also the problem of encryption, which is inflicted by the producers rather than the cable providers.

Perhaps, there will soon be away around the conflicts. On Friday, I had a very interesting conversation with a staff person for nearby Comcast franchise. He told me that Comcast will soon distribute its programming out of Philadelphia via IP. I assume that the other major cable providers are going the same route.

I don't know what Apple will do about the living room. However, we can no longer dismiss out-of-hand the notion that Apple will return to the living room TV set business.
post #14 of 15
In conjunction with my last post. I would say that licensing iOS for ATV to other companies would actually be a pretty good idea. As opposed to making their own, but I suspect Apple will do what they think's best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except they called the original "iTV" originally, and everyone was fine with it.

Except for ITV. Changing the name to iTV would result in ITV suing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...-TV-plans.html
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

The notion that Tim Cook secretly held diametrically opposing views to those of Jobs and that he now has the opportunity to run Apple "his way" is pure fantasy.

I believe there is a strawman in the room. Who is claiming that Tim Cook holds diametrically opposing views to Steve Jobs? What I am saying is that Tim Cook is (obviously) not Steve Jobs. And though Jobs has a role as CoB, Cook is not his puppet or his cloned "yes man". As time goes on, there are going to be things that Tim will make calls on that might be different from how Steve would do it. Some he'll get right. Some he'll get wrong. But only if he tries to imitate Steve Jobs, or has to ask Jobs for permission every time he makes a decision, will he fail.

But I was specifically speaking to licensing. And as I said, that is not written in stone and is already being done in certain circumstances now. But as an AAPL investor, the idea of an actual TV set concerns me. Entry into any low margin business would concern me.
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