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Windows 8 appears to adopt Mac OS X Lion's monochrome, iPad-like icons - Page 4

post #121 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Seriously? I've had Mac's since 2002 and every version of OS X since then, multiple iPods, an iPhone and have seen a lot of iPads. But I really can remember seeing a black and white interface on any of them. When thing's are gray on an Apple product there always either a metal effect or some sort of gradient, not solid black. Apple's newest icons are also all square with rounded corners.

Take a look at the menu bar of one of your many "Mac's" and note the wide array of b&w icons surrounding the clock. Even the Apple men has been monochrome (has a gradient, but subtle) for years.

There are also other places where Apple has used monochrome icons, such as at startup, the monochrome Apple logo, gear, and Option-boot icons for drives. Seems like with all your "Mac's" you haven't been very observant. You could also look at the early iPods, none of which were grey because they had B&W screens!

The Zune wasn't ahead of this curve any more than Vista was--both were at least 6 years behind Mac OS X in 2001, but thanks for offering your Apocryphal Computer History to refute what everyone else sees as the simple truth.
post #122 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Uhm... the word has been used that way since at least the 80's. Perhaps you should look beyond Wikipedia and get out into the real world.

Using Gay to mean undesirable started around the same time as the phrase/bumper sticker "Disco Sucks," which associated disco with homosexuality to run down both gays and blacks who happened to like the same music.

You might not think that saying Gay or Sucks is a big deal, but if you were a little more ignorant you'd think the same about saying N**ger or chink or spic or any other racial/hate epithet.

The classy rule of thumb is that you can't use words that convey hate toward a minority unless you are part of that minority yourself and are working to change its meaning. So if you say something "is gay," it suggests you are yourself down for sex with dudes, or that you are just ignorant and spew hate speech without understanding how it affects other people.

Saying "I mean gay like weak and despised, not homosexual gay" is just as ignorant as saying "I called you a n**ger but not like you are black, just in a hateful, derogatory way in general."

You can't do that without looking like an unsophisticated idiot, even if you think Gay and Sucks are good words because they've been used for several decades (by people who hate homosexuals and the ignorant), and you have in your mind that those words don't mean anything bad anymore. N**ger was used for hundreds of years by both hateful and ignorant people. It didn't lose its meaning, which was to associate black with bad/despised/lack of respect.

Using gay to mean something you don't respect should clue you into why you use the word gay in the first place.
post #123 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Let me clear things up for you: Elements of Metro are unique (and I'd say crap, but that's just my opinion), but this article isn't about Metro, it's about iOS-like icons that Microsoft is layering over the top of Windows 7 to make it touch friendly. Microsoft's successes have come largely from elements it took from Apple/NeXT. Microsoft has coined a lot of unique ideas (or arbitrary changes, like using Start to shut down) but they were overwhelmingly not good and unpopular.

That's why, despite rebranding Office and Windows with new looks and new logos EVERY release, there isn't anything to carry forward because its all disposable crap fashion, like H&M. Immediately dated because its just flashy bling noise appealing to unsophisticated clients. Apple has tended to build things with some taste, so it doesn't radically depart from its style every time it releases a product.

Even things that people now say looked bad in retrospect were original and kind of cool at the time, like the brushed metal look or the original aqua. It's hard to think of nice looking things Microsoft has produced over its monopoly period. It's only been in the last few years since the Vistapocalypse that it has produced some attempts at good looking stuff (Metro/Bing), but those aren't the company's most popular products.

Looks like DED created himself a new name and is getting a wee bit defensive.
post #124 of 159
deleted
post #125 of 159
Let's finish the story...

Windows 8



Mac OS X 10.7



Now which one of these looks like it's evolving and which looks like it's standing still?

Since the Lion is the king of the jungle, I hope next year we get OS XI with a radically new interface. It's time that we moved on from the 1984 desktop.
post #126 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

You are confusing W8's web apps with its UI.

Just because the apps are HTML5 based doesn't mean that they are web apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The UI is iPad icons. The colorful web pages Microsoft designed to replace the ugly Windows desktop are nice looking, but just like Windows 3.1, they're only a fresh coat of paint until you scrape back a corner and see the old Windows Vista/7 running behind it (just like Win on DOS).

This is not a new product, its a facade layer, just like Motoblur or TouchWiz on Android.

"And if you want to stay permanently immersed in that Metro world, you will never see the desktopwe wont even load it (literally the code will not be loaded) unless you explicitly choose to go there!... Essentially, you can think of the Windows desktop as just another app. " - Steven Sinofsky

I think it's at least a little disingenuous to refer to the new UI as simply a facade layer.

Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...e-desktop.aspx

iPad 16 GB(1st gen), iPod touch 8 GB (4th gen), iPod shuffle (2nd gen), iPod shuffle (4th gen)

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iPad 16 GB(1st gen), iPod touch 8 GB (4th gen), iPod shuffle (2nd gen), iPod shuffle (4th gen)

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post #127 of 159
Even when Microsoft copies, they can't even copy correctly. The picture speaks for itself.

post #128 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

You are confusing W8's web apps with its UI. The UI is iPad icons.

I didn't confuse anything. What I did was highlight just how dissimilar what we know of Windows 8 and OSX Lion actually are.

The article is a joke. If Dilger could find himself at least half a brain to work with he would know that.

Not only do Windows 8 and OSX Lion on the whole look nothing like each other as Dilger pointed out himself just a few days ago (the poor man must have the memory of a goldfish) but the tiny parts that do happen look the something like each other are a part of Microsoft's unique Metro design language that have been in use for years before OSX Lion hit the shelves.

Normally Dilger comes off as a irrational fanboy, foaming at the mouth while beating his vitriolic bile into his keyboard.

This time though, he just looks plain old dumb.
post #129 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post

Even when Microsoft copies, they can't even copy correctly. The picture speaks for itself.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel isn't it!

Someone can say many things about Microsoft, but trying to argue Microsoft copied the Metro design language from Apple is just ridiculous.
post #130 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Where do you think they got Metro from?

Anyway, this is just pathetic copying. I always thought they copied a bit but since everyone calls them on it you'd think they would start to move away from it and try to be more original. This is even closer copying than ever before.

It's not just the icons but the changing of the start menu from programs to mostly settings. If you put this bar on the top of the screen instead of the bottom it's basically a copy of the Apple menu. I've seen this stuff for years but I find this just shocking. It's like they aren't even trying to hide the copying anymore.

How incredibly, incredibly pathetic.

Quote from Wiki:

Metro is an internal code name for a typography-based design language created by Microsoft. Early uses of the Metro principles, such as the typography, began as early as Microsoft Encarta 95, and later evolved into products such as Windows Media Center and Zune. Today, the principles of Metro are being applied to Microsoft's mobile operating system, Windows Phone 7, and the upcoming Windows 8. A specially made version of Microsoft's Segoe font family, Segoe WP, is used as the main font family for all typographical elements. It was confirmed by Microsoft at Computex that Windows 8, the next version of Windows, will take inspiration from Metro. Microsoft also plans to add the Metro design principles to other products and services, like the Xbox 360 and Windows Live, in order to create a unified and distinctive look across its consumer products and services.

"Metro" is based on the design principles of classic Swiss graphic design. Early glimpses of this style could be seen in Windows Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition, which favored text as the primary form of navigation. This interface carried over into later iterations of Media Center. In 2006, Zune refreshed its interface using these Metro principles. Microsoft designers decided to redesign the interface and with more focus on clean typography and less on UI chrome. The Zune Desktop Client was also redesigned with an emphasis on typography and clean design that was different from the Zune's previous Portable Media Center based UI. Flat colored "live tiles" were introduced into the Metro design language during the early Windows Phone 7's studies. Microsoft has begun integrating these elements of the Metro design language into its other products, with direct influence being seen in newer versions of Windows Live Messenger and Live Mesh.

Amazing what 5 minutes of research digs out.

It seems to me they've been building up that Metro look & feel for some time now. In fact, it seems some others borrowed from them a bit.
post #131 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcallows View Post

i might've believed that if microsoft hadn't had a history of copying apple's creations

Don't beleive. Google.
post #132 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb View Post

Maybe it's just me, but if you look at the graphic and say that Mac had the first icons, but Windows 1.0 had the first color icons, and follow the chart from there, it looks like the Mac icons copy Win icons. The icons that are arbitrarily called "cartoon" for Win XP look a lot to me like the "photorealistic" Mac OS X icons. What it calls Win "photorealistic" looks like super-photorealistic to me.

My first reaction to the Win 8 start menu graphics was that it looks like Palm/WebOS. I really don't see the similarity to iOS...

But that's only because you haven't inhaled enough of that magical stuff that freely roams in some (not to be named here) magical realms...
post #133 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

I'm not a hater but when it comes to computers Apple rules the effing roost.
Time and time again I have heard nothing but complaints from pc users. But when they see Apple in action they fall in love. That is from my perspective. Screw windows man.
My 2008 macbook unibody Al is going to be 3 years old this year and I have not had one damn problem with it. I have been left speechless by the power and reliability of this laptop.
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And it plays quake on quaklive like storm trooper on steroids. Booya!!!
I want the 27 inch imac but that beast is...Oh sh**!!!!

Glad you had such nice experience with your Macs.

My wife's Toshiba Satellite from 2007 also works like a charm, no problems what-so-ever... and she is hardly careful user. It can even play games like Gears of War and Rainbow 6: Vegas on it's crappy ATI 2400 graphics and Windows Vista (!!!!).

Oldest PC in my house is P4 with XP that acts as a "server"... that is, works 24/7 and hosts Skype phone, couple of printers and couple of USB drives and one NAS... that one must be 5-6 years old and since I got it when one of our clients retired it, 3 years ago, never crashed.

Then there is my media PC with single-core AMD64 (5 years old), my old desktop with AMD 64 X2 (4 years old) and my desktop with Core2Quad (2.5 years old). All perfectly stable.

It is really sad so many people here think PC machines are unstable by default. Most are not. Sure you can be of bad luck and end up with crappy unit, or forfeit basic rules ad get infected by virus... but it really doesn't take much effort to find good hardware for the money one is willing to spend, and keep that hardware running reliably for ages with minimal effort.
post #134 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Connotes

Based on a pre-beta snap of a demo video about native ISO/VHD support the OP has concluded that Windows 8 has ripped off the Metro-style OSX Lion monochrome icons.

An example of just how heavily Windows 8 rips off OSX Lion is presented below.








No. I definitely cannot take them apart.

/sarcasm.

There goes another myth that designers and artist use Macs. It looks more like colour and shape blind people use them around here.
post #135 of 159
double post.
post #136 of 159
It's a little quiet in here now that hyperbola has stopped and we started dealing with the facts!
post #137 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Geez! That picture is the epitome of a "goatse" in tech/industrial design. Made me dry-heave a little! Wonder what Jonny Ive does if someone throws (up) that picture at him?

Tries to intercept it mid-air with picture of iPod?
post #138 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

What is incomprehensible is that people take DED at face value, do no research whatsoever and then take the trouble to post their lack of knowledge on the web.

+1.

What a heck, +10.
post #139 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

How on earth did DED get away with calling Lion's icons "high-contrast"? They're either the same photorealistic stuff they've been doing for years (i.e. app icons) or illegible light gray on lighter gray (sidebars). iOS toolbar icons I can see getting that description, but even then that's just incidental because it happened to make good design sense for toolbars. The entire premise of the Metro UI as a whole is that it's high-contrast and blocky, so it wouldn't make sense to do otherwise for those few little icons in the Start menu.

In short, DED is getting needlessly desperate if that's the worst example of MS' infamous habit of copycatting he could find (and if it is, he's not trying hard enough).

It is sad reality for DED, but laugh-at-MS time has passed it's prime with slow demise of long-in-a-tooth Windows XP and release of Windows 7. MS is entering their up!-phase, and I expect their incoming products to be harder and harder to laugh at.
post #140 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

It is sad reality for DED, but laugh-at-MS time has passed it's prime with slow demise of long-in-a-tooth Windows XP and release of Windows 7. MS is entering their up!-phase, and I expect their incoming products to be harder and harder to laugh at.

Can't wait for the "Hi, I am a Windows Phone... and I am an iPhone" commercials from Microsoft where the WP runs circles around the iPhone
post #141 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Some people call Lion too bland but I like it. Can be pleasing to tinker around with, and quite smooth when being productive (you know, actually doing stuff instead of dealing with Office and Windows crashing or lagging).

True, because we all know every PC is lagging, crashing Pandora box... and whole world is big Windows-fused bomb waiting to implode into galactic blue screen of sinful death... unless, soothing, soul-saving kernel panic doesn't happen first and we all go to heaven.

Really?

Stop repeating nonsense would be nice, for a start... would even give you more time to do, err, stuff.

Unless "stuff" is repeating nonsense around here..?
post #142 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Let me clear things up for you: Elements of Metro are unique (and I'd say crap, but that's just my opinion), but this article isn't about Metro, it's about iOS-like icons that Microsoft is layering over the top of Windows 7 to make it touch friendly. Microsoft's successes have come largely from elements it took from Apple/NeXT. Microsoft has coined a lot of unique ideas (or arbitrary changes, like using Start to shut down) but they were overwhelmingly not good and unpopular.

That's why, despite rebranding Office and Windows with new looks and new logos EVERY release, there isn't anything to carry forward because its all disposable crap fashion, like H&M. Immediately dated because its just flashy bling noise appealing to unsophisticated clients. Apple has tended to build things with some taste, so it doesn't radically depart from its style every time it releases a product.

Even things that people now say looked bad in retrospect were original and kind of cool at the time, like the brushed metal look or the original aqua. It's hard to think of nice looking things Microsoft has produced over its monopoly period. It's only been in the last few years since the Vistapocalypse that it has produced some attempts at good looking stuff (Metro/Bing), but those aren't the company's most popular products.

If you ever looked at original Windows Phone 7 pass the tiled home screen, you would see that all the icons on app list (settings, mail, explorer...) are monochrone white on dark icons that look almost exactly the same as icons on Windows 8 - only difference they were not showing on home screen, at least not all of them.

post #143 of 159
Ive never seen such a thorough multipartied pwning of such typical "everyone copies Apple" logic.

such a beautiful sight to behold. I wonder if anyone has changed their minds.
post #144 of 159
Breaking News: Microsoft copies Apple with a Time Machine !!!!

post #145 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

If you ever looked at original Windows Phone 7 pass the tiled home screen, you would see that all the icons on app list (settings, mail, explorer...) are monochrone white on dark icons that look almost exactly the same as icons on Windows 8 - only difference they were not showing on home screen, at least not all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Ive never seen such a thorough multipartied pwning of such typical "everyone copies Apple" logic. Such a beautiful sight to behold. I wonder if anyone has changed their minds.

It gets better...

Direct from the Windows Phone 7 design guidelines...

"Icons should be clear and understandable, using real-world metaphors that are familiar to users. The best icons are monochromatic with simply geometry."

post #146 of 159
this thread proves the existence of delusion amongst some of the people here.
post #147 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

It is sad reality for DED, but laugh-at-MS time has passed it's prime with slow demise of long-in-a-tooth Windows XP and release of Windows 7. MS is entering their up!-phase, and I expect their incoming products to be harder and harder to laugh at.

i work in enterprise that has thousands of desktops. 3/4 of them are now Windows 7.
I get to 'laugh' at that waste of bits every day.
post #148 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

hey...those icons are from Zune HD and Windows Phone. nice try. :-D

I'm not usually one to care if someone bashes Microsoft but this is a bit ridiculous. Maybe MS gets some of their ideas from the Apple interface but I used to give Windows similar looks long ago using various skinning programs so sorry but Apple didn't think of all these looks first.
post #149 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

I agree with the folks who are saying MS is not copying Apple here. MS's metro UI design in Win8 and WP7 is refreshing in that it is doing things a different way. Don't know if it is successful, but it is refreshingly different.

As for the grayscale icon design, it's convergent design. If it is good design to have grayscale icon design, then all OS UI should use. It's only copying if they use the exact same icons.

i applaud MS for not copying apple down to the letter. but they still follow apple's lead. and no matter how shiny you polish Windows gui its still shite underneath.
post #150 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i applaud MS for not copying apple down to the letter. but they still follow apple's lead. and no matter how shiny you polish Windows gui its still shite underneath.

As a active member of an Apple forum you're far more likely to prefer Apple products over Windows.

So in one way, it's kind of pointless to post your opinion of Windows because it can be safely assumed the other members already know... however in another way you're helping to confirm the statistic.

This is, of course, all irrelevant and has nothing to do with the topic at hand... but then again neither did you comment, so we've kind of come full circle... no?
post #151 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

As a active member of an Apple forum you're far more likely to prefer Apple products over Windows.

So in one way, it's kind of pointless to post your opinion of Windows because it can be safely assumed the other members already know... however in another way you're helping to confirm the statistic.

This is, of course, all irrelevant and has nothing to do with the topic at hand... but then again neither did you comment, so we've kind of come full circle... no?

on this forum your 'argument' fails. lots of 'anti-apple' posters here. you might even find a tiny few from me that aren't supportive of apple....

'pointless' is your middle name.
post #152 of 159
Fact: This is not a copy at all and DED is delusional.

Another Fact: This does not mean Microsoft is "re-entering their gold era", as the under-the-hood stuff is still windows and Ballmer strategy is absolutely retarded. YES FIREFLY, I KNOW WINDOWS 7 IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE SHIT AND ALL, but it IS NOT. Just because it regained the semblance of sanity Windows had before Vista, it doesn't meant it fixed any of the issues Windows had before it. I know it. I used to be a windows user, and there's a WP7 partition on my MBP which sees daily usage.

Now and opinion!: While overall OS X is way ahead of Windows interface-wise, I very much prefer the pure-black chrome to the weird gray OS X uses.

FACT: Apple needs to redo their UI and will probably do so when they unite iOS and OS X. I'd say it'll mostly be iOS-y (which is awesome), but they'll have to freshen up things from iOS that are looking stale (super-glossy black bars and pinstripes, we're looking at you)

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post #153 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Fact: This is not a copy at all and DED is delusional.

Another Fact: This does not mean Microsoft is "re-entering their gold era", as the under-the-hood stuff is still windows and Ballmer strategy is absolutely retarded. YES FIREFLY, I KNOW WINDOWS 7 IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE SHIT AND ALL, but it IS NOT. Just because it regained the semblance of sanity Windows had before Vista, it doesn't meant it fixed any of the issues Windows had before it. I know it. I used to be a windows user, and there's a WP7 partition on my MBP which sees daily usage.

Now and opinion!: While overall OS X is way ahead of Windows interface-wise, I very much prefer the pure-black chrome to the weird gray OS X uses.

FACT: Apple needs to redo their UI and will probably do so when they unite iOS and OS X. I'd say it'll mostly be iOS-y (which is awesome), but they'll have to freshen up things from iOS that are looking stale (super-glossy black bars and pinstripes, we're looking at you)

the next generation of Mac and iOS is going to be beyond epic.
post #154 of 159
I wish Apple would just hire Bruce "Tog" Tognazzini. His criticisms of OS X's GUI are still valid. Of course, many of his points also show why OS X is and always has been vastly superior to any Windows GUI.
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post #155 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Now which one of these looks like it's evolving and which looks like it's standing still?

Since the Lion is the king of the jungle, I hope next year we get OS XI with a radically new interface. It's time that we moved on from the 1984 desktop.

You are comparing the Windows 8 launcher (and some apps) to the Mac dock with a modal app. Windows 8 still has the old UI for the majority of apps:



Apple's fullscreen apps and Launchpad are a move in the iOS direction but there can't be a radical change without allowing developers to get their apps ready for it. There's no way that all apps will work fullscreen for example.

Imagine a fullscreen calculator app on a 27" screen. It doesn't work because you'd want to use it alongside another app. Windows 8 allows you to snap items next to other apps but you don't always want to have to do that. Just open an app quickly, do your thing and close it.

I expect they will keep evolving the UI but I think most of the big changes have been made in Lion.
post #156 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It gets better...

Direct from the Windows Phone 7 design guidelines...

"Icons should be clear and understandable, using real-world metaphors that are familiar to users. The best icons are monochromatic with simply geometry."


I can save to a floppy disc on a WP7? Wow. 'Right on my phone!"
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post #157 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I can save to a floppy disc on a WP7? Wow. 'Right on my phone!"

No more than you can edit with a pencil, send a letter, open a filling cabinet, put something in the trash or investigate with a magnifying glass.

Abstract concepts Mr Boogie, abstract concepts... all displayed with simply geometry and monochromatic.
post #158 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

No more than you can edit with a pencil, send a letter, open a filling cabinet, put something in the trash or investigate with a magnifying glass.

Abstract concepts Mr Boogie, abstract concepts... all displayed with simply geometry and monochromatic.

You have to admit, we need a better intuitive icon for the concept of saving.

We're almost entering a second generation of people who have never once used a floppy disc. Keeping its symbol in modern computing (where devices haven't been compatible with them for nearly a decade) is the equivalent of calling the brakes on a car "the reins" and calling the process known as "putting on the brakes" "pulling on the reins".

Driving Instructor: Now just pull on the reins and bring her to a stop.

Kid: Uh, reins?

*Kid pulls the lever to open the hood. Everyone's effectively blinded*

*horrible crash*

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post #159 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You have to admit, we need a better intuitive icon for the concept of saving.

We're almost entering a second generation of people who have never once used a floppy disc. Keeping its symbol in modern computing (where devices haven't been compatible with them for nearly a decade) is the equivalent of calling the brakes on a car "the reins" and calling the process known as "putting on the brakes" "pulling on the reins".

Driving Instructor: Now just pull on the reins and bring her to a stop.
Kid: Uh, reins?
*Kid pulls the lever to open the hood. Everyone's effectively blinded*
*horrible crash*


I don't think so. As we are moving into the second and third generation of users that have never used a floppy disk the majority of users are no longer going to think that they are clicking on a "floppy disk" to save, they are going to think they are clicking on the culturally recognised symbol for "save".

When you think about it, it doesn't really matter what the symbol represents. The "play", "pause" and "stop" icons have a history that goes back to the days of tape reels... I've got no idea what they represent; I just know them as "play", "pause" and "stop".



In your example if the student had no cultural reference to go by they would have had no idea what the instructor meant by "put on the brakes".

The first instinct would be to look for a switch or for something to put on, not "depress the brake pedal".

I'd even hazard a guess that the saying "to put on the brakes" comes from the days before brake pedal existed (trains, horse and carriage, early cars) when the brakes were essentially an on/off switch controlled by a lever.
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