Rumor: Apple investigating USB 3.0 for Macs ahead of Intel - Page 3

Originally Posted by MacTac

You haven't seen any fire alarm or security panels lately have you?

They still use RS232. We are bidding a job that will use a brand of security panel we aren't certified for. Training requires a laptop with a RS232 port. The fire alarm panels we install use RS232. For the programming these systems need there is no need for higher data speeds so those industries have never made the move to USB.

One day it will happen but not yet.

You would be amazed at how much older stuff is still out there and still in regular use. We have cable testing equipment that use serial cables for download. Heck, one of the pieces of equipment uses 3.5 inch floppies for storing test results.

For smaller companies it is cost prohibitive to purchase the latest greatest test gear. We would simply go broke. The old stuff still works fine and as long as it is serviced by the manufacturer there is no reason to dump it.

And a lot of the newest equipment isn't capable of interfacing with the older panels that are in service. Old programming software doesn't run on newer OS's. You have to keep older computers around if you want the service and maintenance contracts. Lot's of businesses (like school districts) don't have the money to replace existing equipment that still does the job just because it is old.

And most of the specifications on the new installation jobs we do require electronic copy on optical media.

So for some of us (more than you are aware of) there is a continuing need for keeping the old even while embracing the new.

This may all sound crazy to people that are lucky enough to instantly move to the latest and greatest but switching over is a much slower process for the rest of the world.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Now in this thread nobody want to hear that. TB is the latest slice bread from Apple and is thus something that can not be dismissed in anyway. It will be very easy for TB to end up somewhat like Firewire in my mind. I'm sure it won't be as bad mainly because I believe Apple has a plan that hasn't been fully laid out yet.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Oh one more other issue, many USB to "whatever adapters" suck pretty hard no matter what platform you are on.

Originally Posted by hmm

I agreed with you. I just got tired of making points on why I think this. Anyway we don't all have to like something just because apple backs it. The only thing I really like about it in its current form is that it's a potential high speed port that could be matched up throughout the line. Imacs and macbooks lacked any way to hook up esata so this looked like a successor to firewire on those machines, and yet the ports are still missing on the mac pro *sigh*

Agreed and apple has too many things that require adapters already. All of the mini versions of display connections never have a snug enough fit and the adapters are not entirely reliable.

What this means is if you're traveling or these things are critical to your job, you end up with not only the adapter but a spare of each one used because these kinds of junk parts have a tendency to randomly die without warning.

Anyway I don't see it as a usb replacement especially if it's stuck at one port per laptop for now. Adapters, hubs, and other crap are a waste if you're trying to make a more compact laptop.

Originally Posted by wizard69

I think maybe I didn't state my point well as I'm in a similar situation. I work automation which is similar in its reliance upon older technologies. In any event I still think people are dreaming when they look at TB as a USB replacement, the difference in the technology, implementation costs and other issues will keep the two ports around for a very long time.


Not in the last year though I did help one of our facilities guys debug an issue a couple of years ago.

You say high speed or the lack of need for that is the reason they stay away from USB. That is certainly part of it but the other thing is cost. Not so much that USB hardware is that much expensive, as you can get both RS232 and USB built into cheap mircocontrollers, but rather development costs. For many uses a RS232 port is easily implemented and even if more complex behavior is required one can find may a embedded OS that handles the job fine. USB is a far bigger development effort coupled with compliancy issues.

One day maybe. For some devices I'm not sure it would ever be viable. On the flip side Ethernet is becoming huge in automation as it has none of the issues that USB has, is relatively fast and fairly cheap these days.

Yeah I have $100,000 machines that boot and RUN off floppy.

Conversely a lot of the specialized equipment companies can't afford to develop for USB. Some of these guys are very small shops doing one off or very short runs of equipment that has few uses outside of one or two industries. More importantly if more performance is needed USB isn't the smart choice for most of these types of equipment.

I have two very old computers and one 5TI PLC programming terminal that I have to keep around just in case.

We get a lot of specs, manual and stuff these days on optical. Frankly it is a mixed bag. Paper manuals and especially prints can often be more useful than electronic distributions. I'd like to see an iPad used for this at work but frankly they still aren't fast enough and flexible enough for that sort of work.

Maybe I'm old but futzing around with a PDF reader can be very frustrating when you are under the gun to get a valuable line back in production.

Nope, I think I'm in the same boat in a slightly different industry. Maybe I wasn't communicating well but my point is that RS232 has been dying for a very long time. Likewise USB won't be giving up the ghost anytime soon. More importantly TB will become a niche product if it doesn't get picked up in PC land.

Now in this thread nobody want to hear that. TB is the latest slice bread from Apple and is thus something that can not be dismissed in anyway. It will be very easy for TB to end up somewhat like Firewire in my mind. I'm sure it won't be as bad mainly because I believe Apple has a plan that hasn't been fully laid out yet.


Up until a couple of years ago I worked on equipment that still used RF tubes. Today I still have pre microprocessor based controllers running equipment that has been around longer than I in the plant. Given all of that the new stuff makes heavy use of Ethernet bypassing USB altogether. This is one of the reasons I'm bummed about AIR and the lack of a built in Ethernet port,.

The other issue with USB is its rather limited usability over any distance. People see USB being sued at home but don't realize that it sucks in other settings, often being a poorer choice than 9600 baud RS232. Oh one more other issue, many USB to "whatever adapters" suck pretty hard no matter what platform you are on.

Originally Posted by hmm

I like some of what Apple does but it feels like everything is all about design and looks these days with less and less regard for preserving functionality. In that regard they've done something that none of the other oems have ever accomplished. They've made a computer brand fashionable.

Originally Posted by Steve Jobs

Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.

Originally Posted by John.B

If you understood that, you'd understand. If you don't understand that, you'd be a PC manufacturer.