New Android Amazon Kindle to abandon eInk and take on iPad with customized Android build - Page 2

Why do people keep stating Amazon would be dropping eInk-based Kindles?

Personally I find reading from a backlit display easier than reading from an e-ink display or even a book. I will read faster and read for longer on my iPad. This is because I find that poor lighting is the biggest impediment to reading. I guess it's a matter of personal taste. That said, studies have found little evidence that backlighting is a major cause of eye strain.

In a year there won't be a Nook. There won't be a Barnes & Noble either.

Re Not running Android apps

Clearly their thinking is that if this device takes off, then developers will port to it. And if it does not, then it won't matter.

With the smaller size and missing the camera, etc. they can hold down the costs. That will, however, limit its appeal. How many people rave against the iPhone and iPad because Android device X has a "better camera"?

If you count the TouchPad fire sale, I doubt if that's true. If you don't count the TouchPad fire sale, it's no big deal. The Android tablet with the most sales - has anyone reached 1% of the iPad sales yet?


That's a good way to put it. Add in a single core CPU and small screen and it would be hard to take away any more features.

Oh, but maybe it runs Flash?

Uh... an Amazon ad says 'our product is great'. Didn't HP's ads for its products say their tablet was great? Don't RIM's?

This proves what, exactly?


Indeed. iPads are being used by doctors, and by airlines as navigational aids. Serious work. But there's a place for 'toys' as well. Nothing wrong with that.

Because most people (errantly) assume that amazon wouldn't want to have two tablets. I think it's a great strategy to have both.

First, I'd drop the "Kindle Offers" version of the Kindle (Eink) to $99. I think they might be able to do this, depending on how much the tech they need comes down in price. (hopefully new design will be buttonless like the nook touch, that thing is amazing, but all my books are Kindle)

Release the "Kindle Tablet" or whatever they call it at $250.

So you have people in at 99 or 114 (really, at least bring it to 109) with the Kindle Offers Eink tablet. This is the impulse buy, the college gift, etc. If they wanted they could have the NON-Offers version as well, but it might be smarter just to have a "upgrade" option, though it would have to do something other than simply remove the ads. (I'm thinking gift certificate style.. unlock your kindle for 30 and get a free $15 credit on your account)

But then you'd have the 250 tablet to get people into the movies, or (even better) really start pushing the Kindle textbook rentals. This also has the amazon app store, which gives a free paid app every day. Granted, the apps aren't always winners and the process is kinda shady towards devs, but consumers don't care, they just see "I'm getting something for free."

Without eink, I don't think I'll get a Kindle Tablet. But then again, I already have a Kindle3 and a Galaxy Tab, so I'm not exactly their target customer. My mother, brothers, and friends? Yeah, they'll be tempted. If Amazon really wants to knock it out of the park, make sure these devices have access to Netflix.

smart. its an appliance.

probably hook into the great Prime media ecosystem. $99 year all you can watch and listen and covers package shipping too. Amazon will do well with this and it'll be rootable for the geeks. win.

What a bore! Another haphazardly thrown together piece of garbage with an outdated version of Android that wont even run Android apps. I cant believe Amazon thinks this is even remotely a good idea.

Jeff Bezos recently said in an interview that tablets aside, they would always make dedicated e-readers. So no, they aren't abandoning e-ink, just adding another product to their line.

I forgot about the prime tie in.. Yeah, that could get insane.

I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon made a special "Deals" and "Prime Deals" app for them as well, for kindle books, movie rentals (not covered by prime) etc. to help encourage people to buy one.



To people saying "This is another fail android tablet":

1) Amazon won't market this as android. From what I'm reading, it doesn't have Android Market Access OR google apps (maps, mail, etc). This is more akin to what the Grid10 did with android than to Touchwiz. It's a Fork, and I think the'll push it as a "Kindle" and not as an android powered kindle. The only time they'd really want/need to mention that it runs on android is when they (might) stress that all apps users purchased in android app store will work on it. (I think the'll rebrand it Kindle App Store).

2) Amazon is the ONLY company besides for Apple that has a pretty big content ecosystem to support a device. The have a Music service, a movie service, their own app store, amazon Prime, and a powerful brand. Expect to see a polished "amazon shopper" app debut on this device.

3) Amazon is a well known company, and Kindle is a well known brand as well. That already puts it above other android offerings. Hopefully Amazon's marketing will be better as well, though being better than Xoom ads is a rather low target to aim for.

you know, it helps if you read up on something before commenting on it.

Exactly. Amazon has a wide-open opportunity to dominate the tablet market at all price points below Apple's iPad. They have that market all to themselves right now, aside from HP's recent fire-sale of course.

There's always a chance Apple will want the low-end market, too (the way they did with the iPod), and introduce a lower-priced iPad. But they have been preoccupied with their current product, and have not figured out how to do that. And RIM is run by fools, Samsung can only copy Apple, and HP has thrown in the towel. None of them can figure it out. So this fleeting opportunity is Amazon's to lose.

Yeah, just re-read MG's post a second time and saw something I missed at first:

"Second, the plan right now is to give buyers a free subscription to Amazon Prime."

that's a $79 value (I think) and gives them access to thousands of streaming tv shows, Free priority shipping, etc.. That's a CRAZY value... Might have to rethink about not wanting one now. I was considering a Prime membership anyway... If it has that option, it will be hard to turn down a $170 tablet.

You are so wrong. Pay half the price for a smaller device with a small fraction of the usability of a true tablet?

All HP has proved was that people will buy some things when they are being sold at a fraction of their actual cost.

Point 2 has been somewhat proven in eink's favor. Point 3 No company has yet to be truly successful selling small form factor tablets.

Point 4 Tablets with standard versions of Android won't run all apps so how can a modified version of Android be more capable? Android version is not a standard release and can't be upgraded to a standard release version either.

From the very begimning of this article:
Amazon's next Kindle... a $250, 7 inch color touchscreen model based on Android, but incapable of accessing Google's app market or benefiting from future Android releases.

Actually maybe you should read first. It's going to run Android 2.2, be heavily customized, and stripped of an android market. Epic fail!

Well, the article clearly said so, did it? It said "It's not yet clear whether Amazon will discontinue its eInk Kindles"
Clearly the end of the line for the eInk Kindles.

And they're NOT going to market it as an android tablet. It's an AMAZON tablet. It's Forked. So OS version means nothing, the customization is meant to fit a familiar design (amazon.com), and it will have the amazon market.

They are NOT targeting this at tech users, or at people who want an android tablet. This is a KINDLE, and they'll mention the android part as little as they possibly can.

Actually the source article says the following:


And considering MG actually Handled the device, and talked to amazon about it, I'll take his word for it over an AI writer who read his account and tried to take it as a "Amazon V Ipad" story.

Pay half price for a device that comes with thousands of free tv shows available to stream instantly, gives you a free paid app every day, runs frequent music sales where you can get an album for a fraction of the cost (and listen to it on any device).. oh yeah, and free 2 day shipping on any order from amazon.com. Not to mention have amazon's popular Kindle software in a device that's easily held in one hand and thus much more comfortable to hold for extended reading period.

His point 2 is iffy. I prefer eink for reading, but I know a ton of people with the Nook Color who got it for the form factor. Don't knock the smaller form factor until you've tried it. Most people who review a 7 inch device tend to love the form factor, it's just a question of software.

As for point 3, the tablet market is basically brand new. before the ipad no company was successful at selling a tablet period. the galaxy tab 7 was running an (old) version of android, and one that wasn't even made for tablets to boot. Plus, it had a high price point. The Playbook had a high pricepoint, horrible app support, and a really poor marketing campaign. Basing your opinions off of two devices is a bit dumb. Nook Color sales are doing pretty well, for the device. They're not ipad level sales, but B&N never expected them to be.

4) App incompatibility with different versions of android is largely because the developers insist on hard coding everything with the NDK and refusing to use one of the third party options (like Unity) that make this process easier. But that's a non-issue. This won't have the android market. It will have the Amazon app store. You can pet amazon won't approve apps that aren't compatible with it's baby. As for sideloading, that is up to the user. It's not amazon's fault if side-loaded apps don't play well. They are NOT selling this as an android tablet, so anyone buying one thinking that is setting themselves up for disappointment.

And this article was written in a way to put the device in the most negative light possible, which is damn hard to do because MG Seiglar (an strong apple supporter) came away IMPRESSED with his time with it.

Either way, there may never be a "Kindle 4" eInk reader, so I guess this is the end of the line for Kindle fans. I base that conclusion on completely nothing. Kindle 3 will be the last Amazon eInk reader.

And your conclusion directly contradicts what Amazon told MG. Amazon WILL continue eink based devices.

Seriously, it's best to treat AI articles (at least one's about other platforms) like SEO sites that are quoting Wikipedia entries. You're unlikely to get anything really useful from the main article, it's a lot better to go to the source.

(in this case, TechCrunch)

Half the price for a tablet that's HALF the size, thus half as comfortable viewing. With a LOT less horsepower, and Wifi only. That means all your Netflix will be be done at home, where what's the use of a more portable device as you put it? I'd rather watch movies on a big screen at home, wouldn't you? At least it could be used by the kids in a family I guess.. If they want to watch it on a 6" screen..

The one feature that is gold for the kindle is Eink. It makes the Kindle almost alone on his market. This new tablet departs from that and goes firmly into the sub iPad market, smaller, less functionalities, no ecosystem really, and no future OS advancement. I for one think it'll tank.

One major flaw in your logic the article says it won't run many of the apps.

These cheaper smaller tablets are an important market segment. These products will sell, because they fill a need Apple has chosen to ignore.

I have an iPad, but I also recently bought an inexpensive 7" B&N/Android based eReader.

For me, the iPad is just too expensive to take anywhere where it might be near water, sand, sunlight, might get dropped/lost/stolen, etc. I'm hesitant to take it out of the house so often that it doesn't even get used all that much. If all you want is to read a book, the thing should be cheap and small. The 7" form factor is much better for that specific purpose, easier to hold, easier to carry around, same size as a real book.

If anything, I'm pleasantly surprised by how much the B&N reader can do. It's no iPad, but It's a lot better than I expected for the price. Web browsing works well, so does video playback, and I really like that I can load any file from any source by USB or SD card without needing to sync it to itunes first.

I hope they don't discontinue the e-ink one. If I was them I would make a bigger e-ink one and try to make deals with newspapers.

But the user interface idea where you have no apps, just a spinning wheel of your content, is an interesting one.

It was rumoured that Amazon would make its own fork of Android so that it had nothing to do with Google. It would then be able to develop and further their own OS fo kindle which they know can stand on its own. They will also push their own apps and AppStore for the kindle which will only be for the kindle and won't run on other android hardware.

Kindle is an overpriced single-purpose moron of a device slaved to a company whose ebook products are as shoddy as their marketing practices, and Android is fast becoming such a fragmented mess that the trademark will shortly cease to mean anything at all.

Just what I need Another piece of eCrap, running a crippled version of an incoherent OS, so that I can download a typo-riddled 700-page book of short stories with no table of contents.

Has anyone else noticed that the more the delivery method is hyped the more likely it is the product being delivered is garbage? This reminds me of the 60's love affair with frozen food never mind that it has all the nutrition of the cardboard that it tastes like, it's so convenient! Just how many ways do I really need to watch the latest sequel to a remake of an 80's reconception of a classic science fiction novel that's eliminated the plot in order to make time for more exploding helicopters?

Anyone for aerosol cheese in a can? There's an app for that!

I suppose an all-encompassing ecosystem for such a device would have to include the following:

- Content
- Games
- Productivity

Amazon has the first one nailed, and if they introduce their Amazon App store on the tablet (which I have no doubt they will) they can have the second. Productivity would really extend to apps, which increase the usefulness of the device, but also basic functions like email and calendar services, so I'm interested to see what Amazon does in this regard. Other Android tablets are toy-like because they don't have the apps and hence, there's not much additional utility beyond what you get when you first turn the thing on.

It looks like Amazon are going to build their own ecosystem separate to Android and separate from Google. More of a threat to other Android device makers who don't seem to understand what people want. It's cheap though, and I haven't really seen Amazon display any kind of design expertise when it comes to UI (with the exception of their Kindle and Window Shop apps - the website is a PITA), so whether it actually is good, or even good enough, is something I'm a bit skeptical about.

eInk, in my opinion, is a moot point. It's a tablet and not a dedicated e-Reader so an eInk screen doesn't make sense. Unsure why complaints about this are coming up.

People don't expect to buy things from Google, but they will from Amazon. Hence, they actually have a good shot at doing well here.

If this device gains traction... which I think it could... it spells the death knell for other Android tablets, no matter their superior size, quality or specs. The price point won't and probably can't be matched. And even it could, Amazon at some point could again make it free i.e. subsidized to sell their services and merchandise. It's the ecosystem... and as others above have mentioned, it's a AA game, not AAA at this point.

I continue to say that Android, as it is is today being open for any and all, being actively developed by Google first and foremost... will cease to be by next Summer. For various reasons, but this news just adds to that inevitability. They will concentrate on Chrome, and let Android and all of it's assorted forks flounder on their own.

Only horse in this race that still isn't even out of the gate, is MS. I as well as many here deride Balmer as a buffoon of the tree-swinging, dev-dancing, chair-throwing tantrum kind. Just imagine if MS and Ballmer are not as dumb as they appear to be, and are biding their time and watching how this all unfolds (implodes?) first, before jumping into the race. It remains to be seen if Ballmer has a trick up is sleave and is a jockey, or just plain joke.

Let's not forget: it took MS 4 (5?) versions of DOS/Windows before they were on a par with Apple when it comes to "consumer" and user friendliness. "Par" is up for debate... I know. However, these devices demand user-friendliness this time around. There's a lot of people impressed with Metro. I for one, if only because it's an original instead of a copy of Apple's iOS. It will be interesting how they integrate it with Win8.

When I view my personal crystal ball into 2014, I see Apple still in the lead; Google stumbling badly on turn 2; RIM has been Medivaced; and MS pulling around the turn with speed to nip at the tail of our beloved unicorn

PS: Have I ever mentioned I'm a betting-type of guy?

PSS: ... and NO! I do NOT like MS or any of their products. However when betting, you really should stay objective and detached from emotion.

if they abandon an E-ink model. Once Apple incorporates a Retina display into the iPad 3, reading will become silken smooth on a large iOS form factor. Reading in bright, ambient light will still be a problem for both devices, but that's the nature of the LCD beast.

People that want to run Android apps on it will very likely figure out a way to do just that. Since Android is open source it's much easier to hack.

eh, you mean Google apps. It'll have Amazon's app store. So Android apps will be very likely.

I fear (as a tinkerer) that they will lock this device down though...no sideloading, no rooting...so not for me.

But if the Android dev community can work with this tablet I can see them as the best Android tablets in existence...which, at it's present state, wouldn't really be saying much.

Let's see. The reviewer (who has actually used the device) says it won't have Android apps.

Some anonymous person who hasn't even seen the device says it will.


Who to believe?

If the kindle didn't use e-ink i wouldn't have mine. For reading straight text it is way better than the ipad. It works in sunlight and it works fine in a dimly lit room. The form factor and battery life are fantastic-- as an ereader. For anything other than just text the ipad is better. I've recently read a wine tasting book on both a kindle and on an ipad. On the ipad there are embedded videos that just don't show up on the kidle. This book was purchased from the kindle store.

Typed on my ipad

Actually the rumor is there will be two versions. One with color only, and a dual-mode with color and e-ink.

Cnet link

"The power of e-ink: While the Techcrunch report says the tablet Siegler handled was backlit-only, there are reports that the other of the possible two models will be dual-mode, operating as a backlit color tablet with the option to switch to the easy-on-the-eye e-Ink mode familiar to Kindle users. This is another key differentiating factor that could push Amazon forward."

Should be interesting to see what Amazon comes out with.

DED's typos of the day

And the major flaw in yours (and the AI article apparently) is that this will have access to the amazon app store, which already has a ton of apps over the Nook.

Your other major flaw is that you think this is an "ipad competitor". Amazon will market this as a KINDLE, not as an "app tablet"

They won't market this as an app tablet, it's as a kindle. And again, 7 inches is MUCH better for reading than a 10 inch device.

The reviewer (who actually used the device) said it will have the amazon app store, WHICH RUNS ANDROID APPS.

The reviewer said it doesn't have Market (as in android market) access or Gmail/gtalk etc. Some anonymous user "jragosta" seems to claim that it won't run any android apps. Who to believe?

It helps if you actually READ the article.

Here's the relevant passage:

Source: http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/02/amazon-kindle-tablet/