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New Android Amazon Kindle to abandon eInk and take on iPad with customized Android build - Page 3

post #81 of 104
9/3/11 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

And the major flaw in yours (and the AI article apparently) is that this will have access to the amazon app store, which already has a ton of apps over the Nook.

Your other major flaw is that you think this is an "ipad competitor". Amazon will market this as a KINDLE, not as an "app tablet"

Sorry, but having apps on it, at minimum, puts it into competition with low end tablets. Since it runs a non-standard release of Android how many apps do you think will really run on it?

Android has had problems with fragmentation issues on standard Android releases, there surely won't be a compatibility improvement with the use of a new and non-standard version of Android,.
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post #82 of 104
9/3/11 at 10:58am
Ive always thought the true promise of Android would be some hardware maker taking Android and going in their OWN direction, abandoning Google and making a new platform (like Apples) with hardware and software designed together by one company. Now, thats a tall order! If Amazon wants more than just a next-gen e-reader, theyll have to roll their own solutions (like an App Store) to replace what Apple and Google have, and theyll have to do it soon to get momentum. And doing all of the above outstandingly WELL is vital; Android itself hasnt met that standard yet. But as difficult as that all seems, think how much more difficult it would be (WebOS?) without Android to build from! I think theres a fair chance some company will pull it off some day, and make something better than Android alone has ever been. Maybe Amazons the one!

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post #83 of 104
9/3/11 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Sorry, but having apps on it, at minimum, puts it into competition with low end tablets. Since it runs a non-standard release of Android how many apps do you think will really run on it?

On top of that is the fact that it's based on Froyo (2.2) which is already hopelessly out of date. Even if you had a 'true' Froyo phone, it wouldn't run many of the new apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Android has had problems with fragmentation issues on standard Android releases, there surely won't be a compatibility improvement with the use of a new and non-standard version of Android,.

Yep. The Amazon app store already has a much lower number of apps than the competition - this will make it even worse.
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post #84 of 104
9/3/11 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I hope they don't discontinue the e-ink one. If I was them I would make a bigger e-ink one and try to make deals with newspapers.

Given that B&N has seen fit to still offer and develop a new eInk nook six months after offering the color one, there might be sufficient market for Amazon to offer both types as well. It seems like the people that have tablets still use eInk readers too.

Quote:
But the user interface idea where you have no apps, just a spinning wheel of your content, is an interesting one.

It seems there will be an app system, going by the original TechCrunch article, and it will be an entry in the carousel, or something like that.
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post #85 of 104
9/3/11 at 11:25am
I use both an iPad 2 and a Kindle (gen 3). Reading wise iPad is great for magazines, newspapers etc but for books I can't read for very long due to the screen so use my Kindle for that. That said I know plenty of people that have ditched their Kindle and only use their iPads. There is a perception amongst some consumers, based on my experience selling ebook readers, that colour is better than black and white (eInk) but that is not my opinion for books anyway.

Amazon have the content, they have the footfall of customers. I'd say if anyone can sell tablets in reasonable numbers it is them because they will focus on what the device does not how it does it, which is the same route Apple take to marketing . Apple are the kings of this category, anyone else is picking up scraps but my feeling is that Amazon will be the first to get past double digit market share (sales out not sales in!) What amuses me is all the retailers selling Kindle who are pushing their own customers to Amazon to get content and perhaps other things that retailer might otherwise sell them.
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post #86 of 104
9/3/11 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Let's see. The reviewer (who has actually used the device) says it won't have Android apps.

Some anonymous person who hasn't even seen the device says it will.


Who to believe?

it says it wont have the market but will have the Amazon app store. Android apps.
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post #87 of 104
9/3/11 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

I doubt Amazon cares about the hacker market. They want to sell stuff.

philip

Yes, the point is the "jailbreak" and hacking community will end up doing things far more interesting with low cost hardware than Amazon can afford to offer.

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post #88 of 104
9/3/11 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

The reviewer (who actually used the device) said it will have the amazon app store, WHICH RUNS ANDROID APPS.

The reviewer said it doesn't have Market (as in android market) access or Gmail/gtalk etc.

My B&N eReader didn't come with Market either, but it was really easy to install.
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post #89 of 104
9/3/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

With eInk there is no backlight, hence no eye strain associated from staring at a light. It almost captures the feeling of reading a book.

Well, it almost captures the feeling of reading a book printed with dull gray ink on a gray-green background. In other words, contrast on e-ink sucks. And poor contrast causes eye strain too, you know.

You can compensate somewhat with larger text, but if the light is not great I found that I had to increase the font size so much that I found I could actually display more words per page on my iPhone than on my Kindle.

Then there's the headache-inducing let's-invert-the-entire-page flash that occurs every time you want to turn a page.

There are many reasons to like the existing Kindle -- as a concept. E-Ink isn't one of them.
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post #90 of 104
9/3/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, the point is the "jailbreak" and hacking community will end up doing things far more interesting with low cost hardware than Amazon can afford to offer.

I suspect it will be locked down pretty tight. At $250, they have to be subsidizing it in hope of gaining future book and media sales.

Selling a device that can have all of the Amazon ties removed just to become an el-cheapo Android tablet... well, they're going to frown on that.
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post #91 of 104
9/3/11 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Sorry, but having apps on it, at minimum, puts it into competition with low end tablets. Since it runs a non-standard release of Android how many apps do you think will really run on it?

Android has had problems with fragmentation issues on standard Android releases, there surely won't be a compatibility improvement with the use of a new and non-standard version of Android,.

The Nook has an app store, and only desperate people here at AI say it's "competition" for tablets.

Also, it's a forked version of android, the Dalvik engine is most likely intact.

Also fragmentation "issues" largely from from HARDWARE not software.

Stick to talking about Apple, and leave other OS's to people who've actually handled them
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post #92 of 104
9/3/11 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

What the Kindle really is, apparently, is a stripped down small internet tablet for media and web browsing. no GPS, no camera, no 3G, not much storage. you can already buy tablets like this running Android 2.x from $250 from several other OEM's today.

but that's ok, hype the Kindle to the max! the bigger the hype, the bigger the flop.

Agreed.

Apple is trying to teach the competition that they need to stop copying and start creating new product categories.

Did Apple copy the Blackberry when they introduced the iPhone, or try to be as good as a Windows Tablet PC with the iPad? Amazon should play to its strength of delivering a great reading experience and one that is arguably better than the iPad experience. The iPad must make compromises since it is an all-in-one device while the Kindle has the opportunity to continue to specialize and become an even better, dedicated eReader.
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post #93 of 104
9/3/11 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conwaycf View Post

Agreed.

Apple is trying to teach the competition that they need to stop copying and start creating new product categories.

Did Apple copy the Blackberry when they introduced the iPhone, or try to be as good as a Windows Tablet PC with the iPad? Amazon should play to its strength of delivering a great reading experience and one that is arguably better than the iPad experience. The iPad must make compromises since it is an all-in-one device while the Kindle has the opportunity to continue to specialize and become an even better, dedicated eReader.

Amazon releases tablet that looks NOTHING LIKE AN IPAD, is universally panned on this site because it doesn't have the features of an ipad.

And then YOU try to say that companies should stop trying to copy apple.


You've just proven the point. Companies mimic eachother because consumers are stupid. They want everything to be the same and throw temper tantrums if it's not. (unless the new is accompanied by a flashy ad campaign.

Don't say "People need to do new things" and then try and just complain about what features are missing. There is nothing hinting that Amazon will drop their Kindle eink line. In fact, MG explicitly stated that they weren't. But Amazon also offers streaming movies and music, two things that don't function well on a eink device (or something with as little memory as the Kindle) So they create an additional device to compliment their eink devices and meet those needs. Barnes and Noble's Nook sold very well, Amazon would be stupid not to bring a product to market to try and compete with it. This is competing in THAT market, not the larger tablet market, and I'm betting Amazon's campaign will show this.

Yes, they ran some ads making fun of the ipad and reading, but that's because at launch, Steve positioned the ipad as a competitor to the Kindle instead of as something else.
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post #94 of 104
9/3/11 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

The Nook has an app store, and only desperate people here at AI say it's "competition" for tablets.

Also, it's a forked version of android, the Dalvik engine is most likely intact.

Also fragmentation "issues" largely from from HARDWARE not software.

Stick to talking about Apple, and leave other OS's to people who've actually handled them

How do you know it's not competition for tablets? Do you know what people are buying Galaxy Tabs or Xooms or PlayBooks for (insofar as anyone is buying those at all)? Maybe all they want is a cheap way to surf, email, look at movies and read books-- in which case something like an Android based Kindle would foot the bill.
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post #95 of 104
9/3/11 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

How do you know it's not competition for tablets? Do you know what people are buying Galaxy Tabs or Xooms or PlayBooks for (insofar as anyone is buying those at all)? Maybe all they want is a cheap way to surf, email, look at movies and read books-- in which case something like an Android based Kindle would foot the bill.

Look at how those were positioned and marketed.

Then look at how the Nook Color was positioned and marketed.

This isn't rocket science.
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post #96 of 104
9/3/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Look at how those were positioned and marketed.

Then look at how the Nook Color was positioned and marketed.

This isn't rocket science.


OK, so let's also look at how those other tablets have sold, and how the Nook has sold. Then let's consider how an Android Kindle would be positioned and marketed. Then we can talk about the likelihood that an inexpensive basic browsing and media consumption device are adequate for the "Android tablet market" suggesting that anyone who wants something more capable will generally buy an iPad.

In that sense an Android Kindle wouldn't compete directly with an iPad but would further depress what slight sales "iPod competitors" have managed to date.
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post #97 of 104
9/3/11 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

OK, so let's also look at how those other tablets have sold, and how the Nook has sold. Then let's consider how an Android Kindle would be positioned and marketed. Then we can talk about the likelihood that an inexpensive basic browsing and media consumption device are adequate for the "Android tablet market" suggesting that anyone who wants something more capable will generally buy an iPad.

In that sense an Android Kindle wouldn't compete directly with an iPad but would further depress what slight sales "iPod competitors" have managed to date.

They won't market this as an android though. This is a Kindle that you can watch movies on.

It won't compete with ipad, it's not meant to compete with honeycomb. It might nudge out things like the (already forgotten) 7 inch galaxy tab running froyo/gingerbread.

They're not making this to "break into" the tablet market, but to expand their KINDLE market.
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post #98 of 104
9/3/11 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Amazon releases tablet that looks NOTHING LIKE AN IPAD, is universally panned on this site because it doesn't have the features of an ipad. And then YOU try to say that companies should stop trying to copy apple.

I agree that providing basic functionality like streaming media does not constitute copying. Extending and improving the eInk technology along with developing other technologies that are reader-focused would IMO create a reputation for Amazon that would be difficult to compete with. I have an iPad for streaming and would like a reason to get a Kindle other than to be able to read by the pool, especially since it's Labor Day weekend.
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post #99 of 104
9/3/11 at 7:38pm
I really hope Amazon doesn't abandon the e-ink Kindles. I have both a Kindle and an iPad I much prefer reading books on my Kindle than my iPad, that's just me though. It's a pleasure to read on my Kindle.
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post #100 of 104
9/4/11 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Amazon releases tablet that looks NOTHING LIKE AN IPAD, is universally panned on this site because it doesn't have the features of an ipad.

And then YOU try to say that companies should stop trying to copy apple.


You've just proven the point. Companies mimic eachother because consumers are stupid. They want everything to be the same and throw temper tantrums if it's not. (unless the new is accompanied by a flashy ad campaign.

That's absurd. Let's say Amazon addressed all the complaints here:

- Access to Android store
- Dual core processor
- More storage
- eInk rather than LCD
and so on

How would that make it look any more like an iPad?

In fact, your point simply shows that Amazon's tablet proves that it IS possible to make a tablet that looks nothing like an iPad.
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post #101 of 104
9/4/11 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


The new Kindle's use of Android won't allow the device to run this year's Android 3.0 Honeycomb apps or the new Android 4.0 "Ice Cream Sandwich" apps Google plans to introduce this winter.

People who buy this tablet won't care about that. They are not buying an "Android Tablet", they are buying an Amazon tablet.

They will consume the software that Amazon makes available for it. It does not compete with the iPad, nor with general purpose Android tablets. It is an Amazon appliance, custom built to deliver no more and no less than what Amazon provides for it.
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post #102 of 104
9/4/11 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

People who buy this tablet won't care about that. They are not buying an "Android Tablet", they are buying an Amazon tablet.

They will consume the software that Amazon makes available for it. It does not compete with the iPad, nor with general purpose Android tablets. It is an Amazon appliance, custom built to deliver no more and no less than what Amazon provides for it.

I completely agree. The Amazon tablet in all likelihood will be positioned with respect to Android in much the same way OS X is positioned with respect to BSD. It's what's under the hood, but it won't be what you actually see when you use it.
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post #103 of 104
9/4/11 at 6:12pm
It's not entirely clear to me what Amazon's planning for their tablet capabilities. A report out today confirms that Amazon is in the process of a complete rework of it's website to optimize it for tablets. The changes and improvements "will emphasize things like Instant Video, MP3s, Cloud Player, Kindle, Cloud Drive, Android apps and audio books".

http://mashable.com/2011/09/04/amazon-redesign/

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post #104 of 104
9/4/11 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's absurd. Let's say Amazon addressed all the complaints here:

- Access to Android store
- Dual core processor
- More storage
- eInk rather than LCD
and so on

How would that make it look any more like an iPad?

In fact, your point simply shows that Amazon's tablet proves that it IS possible to make a tablet that looks nothing like an iPad.

really? because we have NO idea how this looks. All we have are renders (which is the Blackberry Playbook with a new UI)

And considering that Apple said that a 7 inch tab was so similar to an ipad that an INFORMED user couldn't tell the difference, it appears that their definition of "informed" is something along the lines of a luddite with perception issues.
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