or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Court documents allege Google's Andy Rubin conceived of Android while at Apple
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Court documents allege Google's Andy Rubin conceived of Android while at Apple

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
A recent reply brief in Apple's patent infringement case against HTC with the International Trade Commission implies that Google executive Andy Rubin got the inspiration for the Android framework during his time as a low-level engineer at Apple.

Rubin spent time at Apple from 1989 to 1992 before moving on to General Magic and then Danger, which made the Sidekick. After founding Danger, he went on to start Android Inc. Google acquired Android in 2005, bringing Rubin on to head development of the open-source operating system.

As noted by Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents, Apple is accusing Taiwanese handset maker HTC of distorting history to discount Rubin's time at the Cupertino, Calif., company. According to Apple, HTC has "omitted a highly relevant fact that Rubin worked with the inventors of a patent that the ITC has initially ruled HTC infringed on.

"Android and Mr. Rubin's relevant background does not start, as HTC would like the Commission to believe, with his work at General Magic or Danger in the mid-1990s," Apple wrote in the court filing. "In reality, as the evidence revealed at the hearing, Mr. Rubin began his career at Apple in the early 1990s and worked as a low-level engineer specifically reporting to the inventors of the '263 [realtime API] patent at the exact time their invention was being conceived and developed."

Apple went on to suggest that Rubin may have used ideas from the patent in his work on the foundation of Android. The company's court filing did note that the issue is not "directly relevant" to the case, while alleging that it does show that HTC has taken liberties in its efforts to overturn the ITC's ruling.

"It is thus no wonder that the infringing Android platform used the claimed subsystem approach of the '263 patent that allows for flexibility of design and enables the platform to be "highly customizable and expandable" as HTC touts," Apple continued in its brief. "While Mr. Rubin's inspiration for the Android framework may not be directly relevant to the pending petitions for review, that HTC felt compelled to distort this history is illustrative of the liberties it takes in attacking the ALJ's [initial determination] and the substantial evidence supporting the ALJ's findings."

Mueller paraphrased the quote, saying: Look at the first two sentences again: "Android [...] does not start [...] at General Magic or Danger." According to this filing, it all started at Apple!



The patent in question is U.S. Patent No. 6,343,263, entitled "Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data," and describes "the use of real-time application programming interfaces (APIs) interposed between application software or driver software and the real-time processing subsystem." An earlier analysis of the patent by Mueller revealed that the technology may be foundational to Android, making it "extremely hard" to work around.

"In Android's case, it's possible that working around this patent requires a fundamental change to Android's architecture, and possibly even to the architecture of the underlying Linux kernel," he wrote in July. The ITC ruling also found HTC guilty of violating U.S. Patent No. 5,946,647, which supposedly relates to Android's "Linkify" functionality.

The commission is expected to reach a final decision in its investigation on Dec. 6, 2011, with the option of either adopting or reviewing the Administrative Law Judge's determination. Both Apple and HTC have filed petitions for review.

Mueller went on to state that Apple's argument for the '263 patent could pose a serious threat to Android and Google, as the company could be found to have willfully and intentionally infringed the patent, increasing Apple's chances of obtaining an injunction and tripling damages.



Given that Apple is asserting the '263 patent against Motorola Mobility, Google's proposed acquisition of Motorola could actually increase its patent liability.

"Apple could argue that Rubin works for MMI's parent company and could at least try to argue that willful infringement began at the latest when the acquisition was consummated, Mueller wrote.

This isn't the first time that Rubin has faced accusations of willful patent infringement. Oracle is accusing Google of knowingly infringing on its Java platform, citing two emails from Rubin and another employee.

"If Sun [purchased by Oracle in 2009] doesn't want to work with us, we have two options: 1) Abandon our work and adopt MSFT CLR VM and C# language - or - 2) Do Java anyway and defend our decision, perhaps making enemies along the way," Rubin reportedly wrote back in 2005.
post #2 of 58
Hot damn. The plot thickens. I always though a lot of this sue-age was just to keep the oppo off balance, but this (and the Oracle suit) might actually come to something.
post #3 of 58
everybody knows Android is an iOS rip off and this article is another evidence against Google.

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
post #4 of 58
Thought it was obvious plus the Google CEO being one of the Board Members of Apple would have given Google an access to research documentations as well as the future plans of not only iOS but other hardwares/softwares. Isn't this what a Trojan Horse was
post #5 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A recent reply brief in Apple's patent infringement case against HTC with the International Trade Commission alleges that Google executive Andy Rubin got the inspiration for the Android framework during his time as a low-level engineer at Apple....

I think Andy Rubin seems to be quite the turd, but the title of this article as well as the paragraph I've quoted that sums it up are quite inaccurate.

What Apple is actually alleging is that HTC is misrepresenting Rubin's work history as it relates to the devolvement of Android, and that it's *possible* that his work at Apple had something to do with his inspiration.

They are very specifically *not* saying that he "conceived Android while at Apple," knowing that they could not prove anything of the sort. Anyone could see that it's possible, or even likely, but Apple is very carefully not actually alleging it as fact, and nor should AppleInsider. It's basically defamation to say so.
post #6 of 58
Regardless of how this will all turn out (and what the actual facts are), this is a very impressive piece of reporting.

Congratulations, AI!
post #7 of 58
I suspect when all this was conceived the perpetrators never imagined Apple would become one of the most powerful and wealthiest companies on earth and assumed, just as in the early 1980's, it would be easy to rip off Apple's IP. They are in for a shock I hope.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
post #8 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I suspect when all this was conceived the perpetrators never imagined Apple would become one of the most powerful and wealthiest companies on earth and assumed, just as in the early 1980's, it would be easy to rip off Apple's IP. They are in for a shock I hope.

You're probably right. Apple has so much wealth and power now that they can probably do just about anything they want.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #9 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Regardless of how this will all turn out (and what the actual facts are), this is a very impressive piece of reporting.

Congratulations, AI!

Right, because the title is misleading, as are their interpretations of the FossPatent source article.

If by impressive you mean "Link bait" then.. it's still only meh
post #10 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Right, because the title is misleading, as are their interpretations of the FossPatent source article.

If by impressive you mean "Link bait" then.. it's still only meh

I'll stand by what I said, thanks.

You may want to invest some time in learning to read better.
post #11 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I'll stand by what I said, thanks.

You may want to invest some time in learning to read better.

Take your own advice:

Apple is implying that HTC was inaccurate in reporting information to the trial judge, because they didn't report he worked at apple.

Apple is also saying that Rubin worked under the team that created what became one of the "Infringing" patents, and that he might've worked on the team that put that tech into process.

They are NOT claiming he came up with "ANDROID" while at apple. They are saying he MAY have used his knowledge of one of the techs he worked on with Apple when he MADE android later.
post #12 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You're probably right. Apple has so much wealth and power now that they can probably do just about anything they want.

I wasn't suggesting they could do whatever they want, just that this time around they can defend themselves. Last time IBM protected Gates when he ripped off Apple, not that he repaid them too well.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
post #13 of 58
deleted
post #14 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Take your own advice:

Apple is implying that HTC was inaccurate in reporting information to the trial judge, because they didn't report he worked at apple.

Apple is also saying that Rubin worked under the team that created what became one of the "Infringing" patents, and that he might've worked on the team that put that tech into process.

They are NOT claiming he came up with "ANDROID" while at apple. They are saying he MAY have used his knowledge of one of the techs he worked on with Apple when he MADE android later.

Correlation is completely different from causation.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply
post #15 of 58
Andy Rubin is Google's biggest problem. why dont they get rid of this guy!

His big mouth is going to be Android's downfall.

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
post #16 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

Andy Rubin is Google's biggest problem. why dont they get rid of this guy!

His big mouth is going to be Android's downfall.

He tries so hard to be Steve Jobs.
post #17 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

He tries so hard to be Steve Jobs.

Andy Rubin is the dumb, ugly, gay version of Steve Jobs.

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
post #18 of 58
This revelation kills any chance of a defence based on claiming the idea came up from a "clean room".
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #19 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

Andy Rubin is the dumb, ugly, gay version of Steve Jobs.

Homophobe? The CEO of one of the most successful companies on this planet is Gay.

Guess which company that would be?
"Very disappointing to have people judging something without all the facts." - charlituna.
Reply
"Very disappointing to have people judging something without all the facts." - charlituna.
Reply
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Homophobe? The CEO of one of the most successful companies on this planet is Gay.

Guess which company that would be?

i'm not a homophobe. i'm just describing Andy Rubin.

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You're probably right. Apple has so much wealth and power now that they can probably do just about anything they want.

I want them to send Arnold Schwarzenegger back in time to kill Andy Rubin mother.
On second thought he would probably get her pregnant.
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

i'm not a homophobe. i'm just describing Andy Rubin.

You obviously feel that being gay is a pretty bad thing since you intended to be an insult to Andy Rubin.\


Both Google and Apple are influenced by other successful companies. What's the surprise? Steve Jobs found the inspiration for the iPod after visiting with Sony and receiving one of their music players as a gift. Hyundai found the inspiration for their VeraCruz and Genesis vehicles from Lexus, admitting that the RX350 was was replicated.in their big SUV. Even the latest iOS version found inspiration for several features from Android.
http://9to5mac.com/2011/09/02/taking...e-to-your-ear/

If any business fails to get inspiration from things their competitors do, I suggest that business has a closed sign on the front door.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Homophobe? The CEO of one of the most successful companies on this planet is Gay.

Guess which company that would be?

Microsoft? Ballmer is sooooo gay!
Facebook?
post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Microsoft? Ballmer is sooooo gay!
Facebook?

You forgot the sarcasm tag. Waaay lower in the alphabet.

It's really no big deal anymore and rarely an issue, particularly in the arts, architecture, and IT. Thankfully we're slowly digging out from some of our less than desirable hangups and it's helped by high profile individuals who aren't afraid of who they are.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...im-cook-gay-it
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You forgot the sarcasm tag. Waaay lower in the alphabet.

It's really no big deal anymore and rarely an issue, particularly in the arts, architecture, and IT. Thankfully we're slowly digging out from some of our less than desirable hangups and it's helped by high profile individuals who aren't afraid of who they are.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...im-cook-gay-it

Post of the day in my book.
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
Reply
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
Reply
post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

... but the title of this article as well as the paragraph I've quoted that sums it up are quite inaccurate.

Strongly agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I think Andy Rubin seems to be quite the turd

I'm fascinated how one can make such a characterization based on what one reads on the internet. It's pointless, baseless, guaranteed to be wrong and speaks more about the character assassin than the target. Why not stay on facts and objective observations, which you are not bad at? Whether he made liberal use of IP from Sun and Apple or not, Rubin has created quite the body of work at Apple, General Magic, MSN, Danger and Android. He should be respected and not criticized by those who cannot hold a candle to his accomplishments. Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What Apple is actually alleging is that HTC is misrepresenting Rubin's work history as it relates to the devolvement of Android, and that it's *possible* that his work at Apple had something to do with his inspiration.

This is not just addressed at PP. It's quite the stretch for anyone to say Rubin conceived Android at Apple. He left Apple in 1992, when the Linux Kernel was just released (and I don't interpret that this is what Apple is insinuating). Was Rubin so prescient as to invent a smartphone OS based on a nascent Unix derivative? If so, then he should be credited for brilliance (even more) and not trashed.
post #27 of 58
deleted
post #28 of 58
deleted
post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Dude, what year do you think this is?

In a world where some people still expect African Americans to sit in the back of the bus, I guess such bigotry shouldn't be surprising....


Again. Im not a homophobe. Im just describing Andy Rubin.

He is in fact the dumb, ugly and gay version of Steve Jobs.

Is like me saying, Chuck Norris is the white, tall and hairy version of Bruce Lee.

See?

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
post #30 of 58
The guy gets an idea for an open source operating system while working as a low-level engineer at Apple, and suddenly this is PROOF POSITIVE that Android is a direct copy of iOS.

So I guess since everyone agrees this is sound logic, then they would agree that any idea formed by any employee is then property of the corporation they work for, clearly.

I work as a software developer, and I design medical software. I guess this means ANY idea I have for new medical software must CLEARLY be copied from the company I work for?

The simple fact is Apple sees Android getting better, they see their competition closing in on them, so they are resorting to whatever they can to stifle competition, and all of you just go along with whatever insane nonsense they present. YEAH, ROUNDED CORNERS = DIRECT COPY! duhhhhh
post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Dude, what year do you think this is?

In a world where some people still expect African Americans to sit in the back of the bus, I guess such bigotry shouldn't be surprising....

The guy's named is FriedLobster. Clearly he's not working on all cylinders. WHO FRIES LOBSTER I MEAN SERIOUSLY Steam it, boil it, or broil it, but for the love of God don't bread it up and deep fry it like some KFC
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

Again. Im not a homophobe. Im just describing Andy Rubin.

He is in fact the dumb, ugly and gay version of Steve Jobs.

Is like me saying, Chuck Norris is the white, tall and hairy version of Bruce Lee.

See?

dumb = negative
ugly = negative

You used gay as a negative trait, when in fact it's a neutral trait. Someone's sexual orientation doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else.

If you had said dumb ugly FAT version of Steve Jobs, that would make more sense, because it would have followed the two negative characteristics with another negative characteristic.

Your Chuck Norris example is just you back pedaling, and trying to draw a parallel between a neutral comment, and your bigoted comment.

Bigotry stems from ignorance, so I'm not surprised you don't understand why your comment was bigoted.
post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

+1000 Insightful

Man, that should be a banner at the top of every forum page here.

agreed
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

This revelation kills any chance of a defence based on claiming the idea came up from a "clean room".

Revelation? What revelation? That he got the idea at some point in his life!?

There's no proof he saw what Apple was doing with their mobile OS and copied it for Android. He simply got the idea WHILE working at Apple, and sorry, but an open source multi-platform mobile operating system capable of being ran on many different devices from many different carriers IS NOT AT ALL WHAT IOS IS OR WHAT APPLE WAS GOING FOR

Absolute willful ignorance displayed on your part here.
post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

dumb = negative
ugly = negative

You used gay as a negative trait, when in fact it's a neutral trait. Someone's sexual orientation doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else.

If you had said dumb ugly FAT version of Steve Jobs, that would make more sense, because it would have followed the two negative characteristics with another negative characteristic.

Your Chuck Norris example is just you back pedaling, and trying to draw a parallel between a neutral comment, and your bigoted comment.

Bigotry stems from ignorance, so I'm not surprised you don't understand why your comment was bigoted.

to be fair, in common usage 'gay' has taken on a third meaning that isn't homosexual or happy.

granted I doubt he was implying that third meaning but still.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The guy gets an idea for an open source operating system while working as a low-level engineer at Apple, and suddenly this is PROOF POSITIVE that Android is a direct copy of iOS.

May I suggest you do a little homework before you post? That is not even remotely close to the claimed infringement. You just guessed what it's about, granted, you aren't the only one. I'll save everyone that's "too lazy" to read up: it's essentially about Apple's "data detectors". It was a feature of OS 8 back in 1997.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Revelation? What revelation? That he got the idea at some point in his life!?

There's no proof he saw what Apple was doing with their mobile OS and copied it for Android. He simply got the idea WHILE working at Apple, and sorry, but an open source multi-platform mobile operating system capable of being ran on many different devices from many different carriers IS NOT AT ALL WHAT IOS IS OR WHAT APPLE WAS GOING FOR

Absolute willful ignorance displayed on your part here.

Nope, except for specific patent they are being sued over.

The DOUBT that Rubin DIDN'T have ANY knowledge of the code in question should be enough to kill any "clean room" defence.

Made even worse by HTC attempting to hide this FACT from the court.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Nope, except for specific patent they are being sued over.

The DOUBT that Rubin DIDN'T have ANY knowledge of the code in question should be enough to kill any "clean room" defence.

Made even worse by HTC attempting to hide this FACT from the court.

Considering Clean Room is rarely (if ever) used in patent defense cases, not to mention the fact that 1) Andy Rubin is not on trial (or employed by HTC) 2) No one is charging Andy Rubin with anything.

But then again, why let pesky things like logic and common sense get in the way of a good rage fest? I mean, if you scream loud enough defending Apple, surely Saint Apple will bless you with those gifts you've been praying for. I mean, why else would you be so single minded?
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

dumb = negative
ugly = negative

You used gay as a negative trait, when in fact it's a neutral trait. Someone's sexual orientation doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else.

If you had said dumb ugly FAT version of Steve Jobs, that would make more sense, because it would have followed the two negative characteristics with another negative characteristic.

Your Chuck Norris example is just you back pedaling, and trying to draw a parallel between a neutral comment, and your bigoted comment.

Bigotry stems from ignorance, so I'm not surprised you don't understand why your comment was bigoted.


Look, one of my cousin's gay and i love him dearly.

Again that wasn't a homophobic statement. I just added "gay" to further highlight the fact that Steve and Andy Rubin are two very different indivuduals.. and i admit, maybe i added "gay" to be funny.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Tim Cook and he's gay ok??? so don't accuse me of being homophobic.

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The guy's named is FriedLobster. Clearly he's not working on all cylinders. WHO FRIES LOBSTER I MEAN SERIOUSLY Steam it, boil it, or broil it, but for the love of God don't bread it up and deep fry it like some KFC

ROFL!!!

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply

CNN: Obamacare largest tax increase in American history

 

FORBES: ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Middle class

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Court documents allege Google's Andy Rubin conceived of Android while at Apple