Mac OS X install base grows to over 6% worldwide, 13% in the US - Page 3

Glad to know that you think that hamburger flippers can be Mac consumers. :roll eyes:



Leaving aside that silly example of your stupidity above:

1) Academia
2) Advertising and promotion
3) Senior execs of major corporations
4) Media
5) Entertainment (incl. TV, movies, radio....)
6) Millions of normal smart, well-off people in their day-to-day lives
7) Schools
8) Public libraries
.......

Do you want me to go on?

More to the point, what pathetic non-Apple industry do you work in?

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Yes.. Market share is the only important factor and is the only measure of success. Just ask HP.

And yet, profit is what shareholders ultimately care about.

Because of poor PC profitability, Acer dumped their CEO and HP is looking to spin off their Personal Systems Group.

Marketshare dominance is not a valid measure of success.

Perhaps. But I've got old hardware and it's running Windows 7. That old hardware is a 2007 MacBook Pro. And it's running in a VM.

ranReloaded knows that ... There was a statistical interpretation joke buried in there, son ... (sigh) ...

Then again, one has to be kind of a weenie to be making jokes built on statistical interpretation ... (double sigh) ...

Those places are well known to have high levels of counterfiting and piracy. That's not a belief. It's a well known fact.

What i am seeing are ipad purchasers moving to macs. The ipad and iphone are great lead ins.
Lion has some kinks but in some cases i would recommend an immediate upgrade to it.

I was referencing Microsoft's 92% marketshare not Apple's.

Yeah, sure, MS has 92% marketshare but that number is inflated by piracy and counterfieting which is far more wide spread in China, India and Africa.

On the Apple side of things is much harder to inflate the numbers since unless you're running a hackintosh you'd have to own Apple hardware.

So when you take marketshare into account, Apple's 6% takes on far more significance when gauging revenue and trends since the cost of ownership for Mac is always going to be a greater expense than a $200+ PC with an easily pirated copy of Windows.

Come to Africa and Asia and see for yourself. I know from experience not ignorance.

I'm not saying everyone in Africa and Asia is a thief but we all know piracy is higher in those regions. We also know those regions are generally less profitable due to lower income levels. Thus Microsoft's 92% takes on less significance than Apple's 6%, a large portion of which is in more affluent nations like the US.

You're right about China. Massive potential for growth. Same goes for India and a few countries in Africa. But as I said, before, Apple's share is far more significant when you take into account the cost of ownership.

Next time I'll try to be a little less crass when making a comment.

That assumes that just because the guy didn't explain his reasoning that he didn't have any justification for the statement.

An executive from a major company doesn't make an inflammatory statement like that without SOME reason to believe that it's true. If he were merely making numbers up, it would open them up to massive lawsuits. So I conclude that while the exact number may or may not be correct, there is some legitimate evidence suggesting that actual sales of the Tab are extremely low.

That is not true. Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.

So does the U.S. You're being discriminatory against entire countries based on stereotypes. That's sick.

Just sayin', seems to be the trend recently

Are we reading the same article? The numbers are based USAGE not SALES.

So yes, in this case piracy and counterfeiting would inflate the numbers.

So if I said a higher percentage of people in China, India and Africa are poorer and undereducated than their counterparts in the West that would be a stereotype too, right?

Just because you don't like the facts doesn't make them wrong or discriminatory.

Clearly this chart published by the BSA is totally wrong.



Here's a breakdown by country. Notice all the poorer countries/regions are on top.

China #17, India #41 and the USA #107

Thanks for playing. Better luck next time!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...re-piracy-rate

Except this:


Oh, good, you've already written my response.

Deaf, dumb and blind is no way to go through life.

The numbers quoted in the article we're discussing are based on USGAE not SALES.

Pirated copies of Windows would be included.

Rinse and Repeat... Thanks for playing. Better luck next time!

I know one lady who didn't wast to learn to use the OS. She gave the Mac to her daughter and bought another Winbox. It's is the shop again. Her daughter is still happy.

Yes, simplicity and easy of use can be confusing after being exposed to Windows.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

Yep, when the opposite 90%+ figure is Apple's share of the $1000+ PC market, and Apple's over double digits in the US (which hasn't happened in a Loooong ass time). Premium buyers are trend-setters, and they're also the bigger consumers of 3rd party apps, accessories, etc. And most people want to be where the trendies are, not stuck in a trailer park with a plastic Dell.


I wouldn't mind failing that way, thank you.


Frankly, now that I know both, and spend most of my time in apps common to both (Word, Photoshop, Chrome, iTunes), I'm results-oriented and both meet my needs while working. So no religious fervor for me there. I do like the look and feel of the UI much better (in general, not in every nuance), but my brain quit thinking about that years ago. When I sit down, I just wanna get my shit DONE.

I prefer Mac mostly because a) I have to futz with it less, b) replace (nicer) hardware less often and c) because the trackpad experience is immeasurably better. However with the advent of Lion (5 steps forward, 3 back), iCloud and iOS 5, the (more) complete integration of devices will probably stick me deeper into the Mac ecosystem.


Having arrived from the past in your magical DeLorean with Christopher Lloyd, You've already been well deconstructed by many on every point. But the keys deserve another rep: The iPad IS that sub $500 device that's taken over the post-PC market - which MS has been laboring in for TEN YEARS (and what's their "all-important" market share there?) - and which, along with smart phones (where MS had more than a 10 year "head start") is where most casual users will increasingly be living. And you can get a 50 buck keyboard for it if ya needs one.

And why doesn't the Mac Mini count? Because it doesn't take over half of a desk?


For better or worse for you, but better for Apple, they've staked their Enterprise and SMB efforts on the iPad and iPhone and are doing quite well in those areas, witness a major Airline rolling them out to all their pilots last week, and a prestigious med school giving every student one, etc., etc.


BS. The numbers are moving perceptibly both in the US and worldwide - and trends matter more than base numbers any day, not to mention these numbers don't include the new generations of iDevices, where both share and trend are Apple's friends.

No I said they didn't need Windows skills.

Please do go on since you haven't hit on any valid industry segment yet that doesn't primarily use Windows. Oh, and my industry is graphic design and programming along with some video and photography thrown in and not even that industry is exclusively Mac. I was giving the other guy the benefit of the doubt since I do know a few average skill level graphic freelancers who don't know anything about Windows, but they are few and far between.

That's a stretch. Please remember, my original comment was there are few if any industries beside graphic design where you can get by without Windows skills.

All of the occupations you listed are primarily done using Windows regardless of whether they could be done on Macs, they just aren't for some reason. If you want to put "I have no Windows experience" in your resume, go right ahead. It is fine with me.

Many professionals use Windows not because there is special "Windows skill". Many people still use Windows because the software they use are Windows only. Also, there licensing and budget issues when it comes to moving to a new platform. This is the same reason Windows XP is still 50%+ of OS market. Upgrading to Vista/7 or moving to Mac for most business and people involve buying new software and this cost lots of money. It is always cheaper to upgrade than to buy a new license for a new platform.

There is nothing superior about Windows and you don't need a special skill to use it. It is all about software availability and cost. Windows developer are slowly releasing Mac versions of their apps. Many Windows developers who released iOS apps realized that they already have the necessary knowledge and tools to release a Mac version of their apps.

No, the report is that Leopard has a 1.17% total desktop market share, i.e. still larger than Lion's 1.03%. It means around a fifth of Mac users are running Leopard and more than half are running Snow Leopard. Only about a sixth so far use Lion.

Wrong. Every one of the occupations I mentioned can be done without ever touching Windows - so you don't need Windows skills.

Face it - you were wrong.

OK I admit I was wrong to try to use words to communicate with you. You clearly do not understand what I am saying. But I'll give it one more try. Yes a Mac can do almost any business task but unless you own the business and decided to use ONLY Macs then there is a very high probability that as an employee at any of the professions you listed you will be required to use Windows computers. The only exception is in graphic arts. If your job is not graphic arts and you have never used a Windows computer before you will be at a distinct disadvantage and may even be let go due to unsuitable computer skills. If you have never used a Windows computer and don't intend to learn how to, you should stick with graphic arts unless you own your own business.

What exactly are "Windows skills"?

Maybe proficiency would be a better word than skills. As you may know just about everything is different between the two platforms. There are of course some fundamental similarities, but in my example if you were a new employee with no Windows experience you would not be hitting the ground running and any question you asked about your computer would most likely make you look like an idiot.

And, once again, you are full of it.

Lots of academics do just fine without ever touching a Windows computer. The fact that OTHER people at the university use Windows is irrelevant.

I've spent my entire career using Macs in Windows- centric companies. Does that mean I can't do my work? Of course not. I've been able to function very well.

Face it - your statement that you need Windows skills is a blatant lie.

Dude you just don't get it. It is not about you bucking the trend in an environment that is Windows centric. It is about the average guy or gal who thinks they know what business computing is all about based on using a Mac all their academic life. There is going to be a rude awakening when they accept a job and discover that none of their co-workers give a shit about Macs and think you are a dumb ass for not knowing your way around a Windows machine.

I'm pretty surprised at people suggesting you can get by completely without using Windows in academia. I guess if it is totally pure research not requiring much in the way of software, you could, ironically using Microsoft Office - trying to submit journal article materials using iWork would be a fun experience I'm sure. "Why do your tables have so many line breaks after them?"

Perhaps that's why they get you to send things in so piecemeal for many journals, separate files for tables and figures - I always did wonder, seems so primitive.

But when you get into maths/stats stuff, requiring SAS or similar software, there just isn't the choice. SPSS is just nasty on Mac and R can't handle large data sets; I think Stata have some semblance of a Mac version but not sure on that one. But SAS hasn't had a Mac version in over 10 years, mainly because so much of their code is more like 40 years old. I run SAS via a server on RDP but it's still using Windows.

On the topic directly, it's pretty surprising to me, but good to hear the majority of it is still down to SL, early adopters are a much smaller percentage based on this than I thought! And I bet those PPC Leopard users are still loving their Dock stacks with nested sorting - lucky buggers!

Updating from XP to windows & was not an easy process for most people (much more difficult that the Vista to Win 7 upgrade). Most people are not technical minded and there are many MS users who will not update an OS on existing hardware. And some of the more technical users bought Vista, hated it and rolled it back to XP. Unlikely to shell out for another update on the same hardware.

This story doesnt add up somehow. Theres something dodgy about those figures OR the conclusions drawn!

As i understand it you cant install lion without the appstore then all the customers who bought the lion had to purchace the snow leo?!? 1+1=2!

But if you dont have snow leo and install lion? How could they?!? That means that they had to sell much machines now with lion to account for the figures?!? Thats the only option I can come up with.

"Install" base?

I'd prefer to know the installed base.

I would agree you can get through life without ever knowing how to use Windows.

It seems kind of pointless though.

Work place training makes your resume look better and the cost is minimal.

No, the problem is that you are a dumb ass for not being able to have a rational debate.

You said that you needed Windows skills in order to succeed at anything other than flipping burgers or doing graphics arts (and you even waffled on that one). The fact is that you are just plain wrong. Many, many people succeed in all sorts of fields without having any Windows skills - or ever touching a Windows computer at all.

The fact that you want to keep revising your argument is one sign of how weak your argument is. The fact is that you do not NEED Windows skills to succeed in most fields.


Of course. Most Mac users I know have used Windows - which only makes them more thankful when they get back to their Mac.

But mstone keeps insisting that you can't possibly succeed at anything other than flipping burgers or graphics arts unless you have 'windows skills' - and he's absolutely wrong.

No, the problem is that they're still using 'market share' to describe the conclusions of this study. This study actually measures something closer to installed base than market share. That is, the study tells what is on the computer TODAY, not what OS came with the computer or what OS was on it yesterday. If the sample were representative, then the results would be the installed base of the various operating systems, not the market share.

However, the sample is not representative. Someone with a brand new computer running Lion or Windows 7 might well use their computer differently - and access the web differently than someone with a 4 year old computer running OS X 10.3 or Windows XP. So, it's really only accurate to state that the results of this survey measure 'web share' - or the percentage of web access from each OS.

Of course, even that's not completely accurate - since they are surveying a subset of the entire web and we don't have any guarantees that the sites they surveyed are representative of the entire Internet.

Because of that, it's best not to read too much into the study at all and take the numbers with a huge grain of salt. Rather, the more important information from surveys like this one are the trends that are observed. Clearly, OS X is growing. Windows 7 is growing. Looking at the rate of change, it would be interesting to see if Windows 7 is growing faster than Vista did. Or if Windows 7 is gaining share mostly from former Vista users or from former XP users. And so on.

I don't think my position has changed whatsoever. I have nothing to prove and would never try to convince anyone to choose Windows over Mac since I'm a Mac guy from way back. The fact of the matter is that you are right in one respect; that nothing is impossible, a very talented individual could force their way through what is traditionally a Windows centric profession using only a Mac. That said it is highly unusual for someone to start a job where everyone else is using a company issued Windows computer and come in saying that they want a Mac instead or they want to bring their own Mac instead. It just rarely happens. You would have to be a pretty special individual to be able make that demand on day one.

Judging solely on my own experience going from business to business, to City Hall, to the airport, medical office, etc., I do not see any workers using Macs. If I go to the coffee shop I see lots of customers using Macs, but somehow I doubt that they are company issued. That is why the statistics bear out the numbers they do. Business is 90% Windows and Windows proficiency is required. A person will need to be very selective as to what type of career field they will be able to enter lacking those skills.

It is sort of like trying to be an international business person without being able to speak any English.

I apologize if my use of the phrase 'dumb ass' was misinterpreted as a reference to you, it was not. I was describing a scene where other co-workers might think that about an unskilled employee. Your usage however did seem like a personal attack which makes your argument much weaker and rather ironic that you used it in describing your rational debate.

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If I were Balmer, I'd be more concerned that the total number of XP users is still higher than that of Windows 7. October 22, 2011 is the 2 year anniversary. I wouldn't be too excited that their best OS ever is still behind their "Old Best OS Ever" by 20%...