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post #201 of 240
9/6/11 at 6:48pm
[QUOTE=melgross;1936750]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Because surveys aren't always useful. Going by the real, known numbers tells us more. You don't have to of course. Nielsen has had its own scandals in the past. I rather use real numbers if possible.

Except you have no method to determine the average number of apps that a user has on his/her phone, nor how often they use them.

Numbers of apps sold has nothing to do with number of apps kept and used, so your numbers based on the number of phones sold compared to the number of app downloaded, allowing for devices no longer in use, and subtracting for "other" app markets, then. . .

Well you get the idea. Your number would tell us nothing concerning the claim you made that Android owners don't use apps. It's only intended for confusion.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #202 of 240
9/6/11 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Which is different than the average number of apps that users have currently installed on their phones. The Asymco link might imply there's quite a high number of apps that iOS owners had downloaded and subsequently found not worth keeping.

Now, that's just your attempt to belittle results. See why I didn't want to use the survey?

The great part of today's smartphones is that apps cost so little, or are free. That means I have apps that I only need once in a while. But I didn't have to pay $20 so I don't care. I just spent $2.99 for a hurricane tracker app that the National Weather Service put out with a developer. Will I use this all the time? Well, no. But there are times, like recently, where it's a very useful app. So I may only use it 15 days a year. I have apps I just use once every two months or so, and some that I only use twice a year when I go to London.

Do these not matter? And you can be sure that out of all the apps available, at least as many for Android are poorly written, or just not useful, so the percentage would stay the same, or even be an advantage to iOS, as reviewers all have said that apps in general, are of better quality in the AppStore.
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post #203 of 240
9/6/11 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

My old eyes go back to the days of [analog] microfilm and then microfiche -- IBM had their entire technical knowledge base on it: source code, hardware diagrams, docs. etc.

Those were the days of KWIC indexes (Key Words In Context) -- I usually could find whatever I needed.

Fast forward 50 years where everything is digital: program-scanable, indexable, searchable -- why can't we search patents by keywords and in-context phrases extracted and weighted from the content -- translated from legalese into english.

Isn't that what Google does with totally random information, across multiple disciplines and multiple languages?


As an aside: One of the jewels of Final Cut Pro X is a fantastic data management facility -- based on:

1) Content Metadata
2) The actual content itself
3) Content analysis (people, video/sound/quality and problems, color, shot range (closeup, wide...)
4) User supplied keywords
5) smart collections

Everything is searchable -- with simple or complex searches.

Basically, the computer does the heavy lifting -- does the analysis and creates most of the "searchable data".

A user can sit watching a video clip and assign [user defined] keywords while watching the video;

My God, these are random video clips we are talking about!

Why couldn't those same technologies be used to classify patents (or any other content) into a reliably searchable data store?

You would think, wouldn't you? I believe the problem is that keywords pull up so much, that winnowing it down is a major task. And as we don't know what was written in every patent, we still don't know if we've missed something. And that's the problem. It isn't always the problem of finding something, but that of NOT finding something. We know there's no way to prove a negative.
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post #204 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Now, that's just your attempt to belittle results. See why I didn't want to use the survey?

The great part of today's smartphones is that apps cost so little, or are free. That means I have apps that I only need once in a while. But I didn't have to pay $20 so I don't care. I just spent $2.99 for a hurricane tracker app that the National Weather Service put out with a developer. Will I use this all the time? Well, no. But there are times, like recently, where it's a very useful app. So I may only use it 15 days a year. I have apps I just use once every two months or so, and some that I only use twice a year when I go to London.

Do these not matter? And you can be sure that out of all the apps available, at least as many for Android are poorly written, or just not useful, so the percentage would stay the same, or even be an advantage to iOS, as reviewers all have said that apps in general, are of better quality in the AppStore.

Far from belittling the results, I was noting that the two surveys were intended to report on different elements, and that paired with the Nielsen results would indicate a high number of apps that were not found worthwhile keeping by iOS owners.

Yes, I totally agree that everyone probably keeps apps installed that are rarely used, and that doesn't necessarily make them useless. What does that have to do with survey results that showed iOS and Android owners use their apps roughly the same amount of time on average, which would argue against your claim that Android folk don't use apps?

Muddy waters again. . .

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #205 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

So they created an international incident to cover for poor results. . .
Strange Mel, very strange if you truly believe that's a realistic scenario

You either are, or are acting very obtuse. I already stated that the Chinese were giving them problems. You should reread that post. You are the one saying they created an international incident. Why do your arguments always come down to double talk in the end?

I said that Google used it as an excuse, not that they created it. Don't make arguments up for other people. Use their own.
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post #206 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You either are, or are acting very obtuse. I already stated that the Chinese were giving them problems. You should reread that post. You are the one saying they created an international incident. Why do your arguments always come down to double talk in the end?

I said that Google used it as an excuse, not that they created it. Don't make arguments up for other people. Use their own.

Obtuse? Yet still no answer whether you think it's a likely scenario, or one that just can't be disproved and thus makes great FUD. I really can't tell what your argument is.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #207 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:08pm
[QUOTE=Gatorguy;1936755]
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Except you have no method to determine the average number of apps that a user has on his/her phone, nor how often they use them.

Numbers of apps sold has nothing to do with number of apps kept and used, so your numbers based on the number of phones sold compared to the number of app downloaded, allowing for devices no longer in use, and subtracting for "other" app markets, then. . .

Well you get the idea. Your number would tell us nothing concerning the claim you made that Android owners don't use apps. It's only intended for confusion.

The surveys tell us little, because most people don't delete apps they no longer use. The simplest thing, though it's hard for you to understand, is to see how many phones there are, and how many apps were downloaded. That gives you a true average. Anything else is just either conjecture, surveys that usually vary between companies, and who they happen to get, whether people are being truthful, etc.

I know you don't like the numbers, but they are there. There are, going by download rates, close to 20 billion apps downloaded by iOS users, and close to 6 billion by Android users, say, since I want to be nice, 8 billion. The difference in time is negligible, as both stores took time to build up.

I know you don't like looking at those numbers, but they are real. So is the number of phones sold. Everything else is so so.
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post #208 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Far from belittling the results, I was noting that the two surveys were intended to report on different elements, and that paired with the Nielsen results would indicate a high number of apps that were not found worthwhile keeping by iOS owners.

Yes, I totally agree that everyone probably keeps apps installed that are rarely used, and that doesn't necessarily make them useless. What does that have to do with survey results that showed iOS and Android owners use their apps roughly the same amount of time on average, which would argue against your claim that Android folk don't use apps?

Muddy waters again. . .

What was being said is that Android users have fewer apps. So the one they have they use as much. Good. They still use apps less often.
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post #209 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Obtuse? Yet still no answer whether you think it's a likely scenario, or one that just can't be disproved and thus makes great FUD. I really can't tell what your argument is.

I said it's very possible. Can anyone prove it? Well, those who made the decision can. Will they? It's not likely until someone retires years down the road and writes a book.
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post #210 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:14pm
[QUOTE=melgross;1936772]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


The surveys tell us little, because most people don't delete apps they no longer use. The simplest thing, though it's hard for you to understand, is to see how many phones there are, and how many apps were downloaded. That gives you a true average. Anything else is just either conjecture, surveys that usually vary between companies, and who they happen to get, whether people are being truthful, etc.

I know you don't like the numbers, but they are there. There are, going by download rates, close to 20 billion apps downloaded BT iOs users, and close to 6 billion by Android users, say, since I want to be nice, 8 billion. The difference in time is negligible, as both stores too time to build up.

I know you don't like looking at hose numbers, but they are real. So is the number of phones sold. Everything else is so so.

You're still moving the goalposts Mel, now needing us to accept your vague claim that unused or undesired apps don't get uninstalled. That's the only way your incomplete "numbers" have any possible relevance. If iPhone's had unlimited storage, you might even sneak that one past unnoticed. But they don't. I believe owners do dumps apps they don't want. By necessity in some cases, "just because" in others.

The Nielsen survey answers give us much more information about how owners actually use apps than any raw numbers of downloads.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #211 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I said it's very possible. Can anyone prove it? Well, those who made the decision can. Will they? It's not likely until someone retires years down the road and writes a book.

\ I don't blame you for not giving a simple answer, An affirmative one would make you sound silly, searching for more tin-foil, and a negative would require some backtracking. That leaves "possible" as your best answer I suppose.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #212 of 240
9/6/11 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

\ I don't blame you for not giving a simple answer, An affirmative one would make you sound silly, searching for more tin-foil, and a negative would require some backtracking. That leaves "possible" as your best answer I suppose.

At least I now understand the real-world use of "obtuse".

I have been watching this conversation, but not participating....

Just what answer do you seek...

There are several sources of unreliable, or unknowable numbers -- you pick the ones you trust, and I'll pick mine!

We have 6 iPads and 5 iPhones in a household of 5"

We have 686 apps, plus a few I wrote -- and some lites replaced with full versions. We have deleted about 100 apps.

I, as a single user have downloaded, say, 786 apps.

But that is spread among 5 users and 11 devices.

How do you count that?

Why, when you don't get an answer that meets your experience or agenda -- do you revert to an ad hom?
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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post #213 of 240
9/6/11 at 8:01pm
[QUOTE=Gatorguy;1936780]
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


You're still moving the goalposts Mel, now needing us to accept your vague claim that unused or undesired apps don't get uninstalled. That's the only way your incomplete "numbers" have any possible relevance. If iPhone's had unlimited storage, you might even sneak that one past unnoticed. But they don't. I believe owners do dumps apps they don't want. By necessity in some cases, "just because" in others.

The Nielsen survey answers give us much more information about how owners actually use apps than any raw numbers of downloads.

No, it's all because you refuse to use real numbers.
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post #214 of 240
9/6/11 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

\ I don't blame you for not giving a simple answer, An affirmative one would make you sound silly, searching for more tin-foil, and a negative would require some backtracking. That leaves "possible" as your best answer I suppose.

At least I now understand the real-world use of "obtuse".

You never present a useful argument. I haven't seen one yet. So why should I expect anything better here? You expect someone to be a fly on a wall for your purpose? It's really difficult being reasonable around you. You know very well that no one can say for certain what happened. I can only give my feeling that it's possible. If it could be proven, it would be a major scandal. I say it's very likely. That the best any reasonable person can be. But you're not reasonable, are you?

No matter what I said, you would find some lame reason why it was bad, so I'm dropping the silly discussion.
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post #215 of 240
9/6/11 at 8:04pm
Dick, it would have been such a simple matter for Mel to say"Gosh, I didn't realize that iOS and Apple owners both use their apps a similar amount of time. Guess I was wrong" instead of clinging to a claim that Android users don't use apps. It would have saved a dozen posts.

I'm not looking for any numbers. To the contrary I supplied some that Mel was slow to acknowledge. Yes there's lots of numbers floating round. The only ones that were important to the particular claim were those that showed Android app use.

And no I was not attacking Mel the person. It was Mel's insistence on using every trick he could think of to change or deflect the argument, avoiding any indication that his opinion might be wrong. Probably a nice guy, smart, but playing the "obtuse" card for some reason. Your view of the word as a personal attack on him does give me pause, and I'll remove that particular sentence. My apologies. We should never let our discussions here turn personal.

Having said that, when I'm given valid info that doesn't mesh with what I thought was true I don't generally continue on the same flawed path. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I feel it's best to do early on. There are others here quite adverse to admitting errors, which is why they often come out on the losing end of some discussions.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #216 of 240
9/6/11 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Dick, it would have been such a simple matter for Mel to say"Gosh, I didn't realize that iOS and Apple owners both use their apps a similar amount of time. Guess I was wrong" instead of clinging to a claim that Android users don't use apps. It would have saved a dozen posts.

I'm not looking for any numbers. To the contrary I supplied some that Mel was slow to acknowledge. Yes there's lots of numbers floating round. The only ones that were important to the particular claim were those that showed Android app use.

And no I was not attacking Mel the person. It was Mel's insistence on using every trick he could think of to change or deflect the argument, avoiding any indication that his opinion might be wrong. Probably a nice guy, smart, but playing the "obtuse" card for some reason. Your view of the word as a personal attack on him does give me pause, and I'll remove that particular sentence. My apologies. We should never let our discussions here turn personal.

Having said that, when I'm given valid info that doesn't mesh with what I thought was true I don't generally continue on the same flawed path. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I feel it's best to do early on. There are others here quite adverse to admitting errors, which is why they often come out on the losing end of some discussions.

But there are no valid number of apps per user or device -- even if Apple and Google provided accurate numbers of devices and app purchases. Apple's numbers appear to more verifible -- but that is only a single metric.

Anecdotally, my 13-year-old grandson has spent $7 each on the last 3 programs he bought (I bought through my ID). The 11-year-old has averaged $3.50 on his last 3 purchases. The 16-year-0ld... Maybe $2 -- other interests

I average around $10 -- as much as $200 for Proloquo2go.

We all use Pages, iMovie and GarageBand, Keynote & Numbers to some extent. -- but only when needed.

What does that tell us... I have no idea.

Those are my, skewed, numbers... About as meaningful as anyone elses!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #217 of 240
9/6/11 at 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Dick, it would have been such a simple matter for Mel to say"Gosh, I didn't realize that iOS and Apple owners both use their apps a similar amount of time. Guess I was wrong" instead of clinging to a claim that Android users don't use apps. It would have saved a dozen posts.

I'm not looking for any numbers. To the contrary I supplied some that Mel was slow to acknowledge. Yes there's lots of numbers floating round. The only ones that were important to the particular claim were those that showed Android app use.

And no I was not attacking Mel the person. It was Mel's insistence on using every trick he could think of to change or deflect the argument, avoiding any indication that his opinion might be wrong. Probably a nice guy, smart, but playing the "obtuse" card for some reason. Your view of the word as a personal attack on him does give me pause, and I'll remove that particular sentence. My apologies. We should never let our discussions here turn personal.

Having said that, when I'm given valid info that doesn't mesh with what I thought was true I don't generally continue on the same flawed path. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I feel it's best to do early on. There are others here quite adverse to admitting errors, which is why they often come out on the losing end of some discussions.

But you always insist you're right when you're wrong. It's simple. If both users use an app for the same amount of time, and one user has more apps, then they use apps more. I didn't say Android users NEVER use apps. Now, you're making the statement I did. You're making an argument that I never made - again.

I don't deflect anything. You demand an impossible answer in order to try to set people up. When they don't respond in the way you want, you make even more incredible comments in order to attempt them to do so. You do it with me, and I'm very patient with you. Too patient.
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post #218 of 240
9/6/11 at 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

But there are no valid number of apps per user or device -- even if Apple and Google provided accurate numbers of devices and app purchases. Apple's numbers appear to more verifible -- but that is only a single metric.

Anecdotally, my 13-year-old grandson has spent $7 each on the last 3 programs he bought (I bought through my ID). The 11-year-old has averaged $3.50 on his last 3 purchases. The 16-year-0ld... Maybe $2 -- other interests

I average around $10 -- as much as $200 for Proloquo2go.

We all use Pages, iMovie and GarageBand, Keynote & Numbers to some extent. -- but only when needed.

What does that tell us... I have no idea.

Those are my, skewed, numbers... About as meaningful as anyone elses!

And this is why I've been insisting that we use the number of apps downloaded divided by the number of phones out there. It at least gives us some numbers that exist. But he doesn't want that, because it comes out in favor of what I've been saying, so no go for him.
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post #219 of 240
9/7/11 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And this is why I've been insisting that we use the number of apps downloaded divided by the number of phones out there. It at least gives us some numbers that exist. But he doesn't want that, because it comes out in favor of what I've been saying, so no go for him.

Well... here's a simple solution:

Just divide the total number of app downloads by the total number of device "activations"

...oh, I forgot, this month has an "Я" in it...


As to the accuracy of "surveys"....

•
•
How many apps have you installed on your phone?
•
•
Do people of above-average intelligence install more apps on their phones?
•
•

Simply reversing the order of the questions will give you a different number!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #220 of 240
9/7/11 at 4:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But you always insist you're right when you're wrong. It's simple. If both users use an app for the same amount of time, and one user has more apps, then they use apps more. I didn't say Android users NEVER use apps. Now, you're making the statement I did. You're making an argument that I never made - again.

I don't deflect anything. You demand an impossible answer in order to try to set people up. When they don't respond in the way you want, you make even more incredible comments in order to attempt them to do so. You do it with me, and I'm very patient with you. Too patient.

He's a professional, he does this for a living. He isn't here to have an honest discussion, he's here to disrupt discussions, spread misinformation, deny the truth, and make a buck while he does so.
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post #221 of 240
9/7/11 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

He's a professional, he does this for a living. He isn't here to have an honest discussion, he's here to disrupt discussions, spread misinformation, deny the truth, and make a buck while he does so.

You are probably right!

I've noticed that 2 or 3 people will sometimes descend on a thread, stir up a controversy, pass the "ball" around adding weight to their common opinion or agenda...

Most people realize when they are being patronized or abused in this way, and ignore or talk past the abusers...

But, it becomes tedious after a while.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #222 of 240
9/7/11 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

He's a professional, he does this for a living. He isn't here to have an honest discussion, he's here to disrupt discussions, spread misinformation, deny the truth, and make a buck while he does so.

I won't go so far as to say he is a paid poster but I did find it telling that he stated that the apps in the app store had no categories which is patently false and shows the he possibly has never used an idevice to any real extent.
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #223 of 240
9/7/11 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

I won't go so far as to say he is a paid poster but I did find it telling that he stated that the apps in the app store had no categories which is patently false and shows the he possibly has never used an idevice to any real extent.

I didn't intend to say no categories, rather not as categorized. And true, we have only one iDevice in the household, which isn't used nearly as often as it once was. Thanks for catching that misstatement Freckledbruh, and I'll take time to brush up on recent iTunes changes.

EDIT: BTW, I just finished a read on a Swiftkey commissioned survey. As expected keyboards and users opinions on them on mobile devices was a primary thrust of the study. Apple users are the most satisfied with their stock keyboards while Android users were predictably the least enamored with them.

As well, there's a lot of other good tidbits in there.

How do people use their phones – not just (or even primarily) for making calls

80% make a voice call at least once a day – 94% email at least once a day, 91% browse the web at least once a day, 86% send SMS at least once a day
Less than half play games at least once a day
OEMs always advertise their camera but only about a third of users take photos every day

Top “how important is this feature?” is email followed by web browsing and apps – voice calls come 4th

If you rank not just by “essential” but by “essential or quite important” voice calls come 5th, GPS/maps takes the 4th place
Only 21% say that games are an essential feature on a smartphone

Apple/Android users have similar number of free apps but Apple users have more paid apps

Apple users spend the most per month on their phones – 29% spend over $100/month
Only 3% of Apple users have never paid for an app – compared to 12% of Android users (4x as many) and 26% of Blackberry users (9x as many)


http://www.swiftkey.net/what-do-smar...rs-really-want

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #224 of 240
9/7/11 at 8:07am
Quote:
I didn't intend to say no categories, rather not as categorized. And true, we have only one iDevice in the household, which isn't used nearly as often as it once was. Thanks for catching that misstatement Freckledbruh, and I'll take time to brush up on recent iTunes changes.

No worries. I had pointed it out a little earlier in this very long thread along with the genius feature.

Here's a funny tidbit. I had the original iphone up until this year. In the beginning, there were only web apps on Edge. When the app store opened, I didn't purchase/install ANY apps until the next year (2009) because I really didn't see a need for one as I had mostly used my phone for business (phone/emailing/calendaring/calculator/contacts/maps/web surfing). In fact, these uses haven't changed much. The iPad is a totally different beast though. Apps are a must (and not media consumption ones even though I have a few) for doing any work on it. Evernote, Noteshelf, iwork suite, idisk, goodreader, highrise, PS Express and more help my productivity greatly.
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #225 of 240
9/7/11 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You are probably right!

I've noticed that 2 or 3 people will sometimes descend on a thread, stir up a controversy, pass the "ball" around adding weight to their common opinion or agenda...

Most people realize when they are being patronized or abused in this way, and ignore or talk past the abusers...

But, it becomes tedious after a while.

No "paid staff" would waste time debating on AI. The problem is, anonymouse is convinced that the only people who think AI can be wrong on things are people paid by Google.

If AI didn't want to have people "stir up controversy" they'd stop posting crap about other operating systems in anything other than a Press release form.

DED practically begs to be trolled, and AI likes it. They get page views, and ad revenue, and get to pretend that having flame wars in their comments section makes them have an "active community"
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post #226 of 240
9/7/11 at 11:29am
Not all Asians are Chinese and not all Chinese people possess the negative characteristics being ascribed to them by some posters here. Before making such gross generalizations, perhaps people should consider how they might sound if they employed an alternate one, say, "women", "Jew", or "African-American". I don't suspect that that level of rationale would get them very far...
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post #227 of 240
9/7/11 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by prokrustes View Post

Not all Asians are Chinese and not all Chinese people possess the negative characteristics being ascribed to them by some posters here. Before making such gross generalizations, perhaps people should consider how they might sound if they employed an alternate one, say, "women", "Jew", or "African-American". I don't suspect that that level of rationale would get them very far...

Welcome to the AI forums.

It would help if you would quote the posts, or any parts of the original article that you find offensive.

You can also report any specific post to the moderators by clicking the red flag under the poster's name in the left hand column.

That said, I didn't notice anything I thought offensive in this thread. I tend to skim-read, or ignore, posts from posters with an obvious agenda to be disruptive -- so I could have missed an offensive post.

Also, I tend to ignore hyphenated classifications of people as being rather pointless.

What are you supposed to call someone of pure Dutch descent whose ancestors of multiple generations were born in Africa... Dutch-African? African-Dutch? Dutch? African? Boer? Afrikaans?

For the record, I am of the Caucasian Race, of German, Dutch and Romanian Ancestry -- with some Jewish ancestry mixed in...

I consider myself to be a person, and an American -- no hyphens asserted or needed! (We German/Dutch are pretty stubborn about that...

Edit: If really pressed on the issue, I will admit to being a Piltdown-American.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #228 of 240
9/7/11 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Welcome to the AI forums.

It would help if you would quote the posts, or any parts of the original article that you find offensive.

You can also report any specific post to the moderators by clicking the red flag under the poster's name in the left hand column.

That said, I didn't notice anything I thought offensive in this thread. I tend to skim-read, or ignore, posts from posters with an obvious agenda to be disruptive -- so I could have missed an offensive post.

Also, I tend to ignore hyphenated classifications of people as being rather pointless.

What are you supposed to call someone of pure Dutch descent whose ancestors of multiple generations were born in Africa... Dutch-African? African-Dutch? Dutch? African? Boer? Afrikaans?

For the record, I am of the Caucasian Race, of German, Dutch and Romanian Ancestry -- with some Jewish ancestry mixed in...

I consider myself to be a person, and an American -- no hyphens asserted or needed! (We German/Dutch are pretty stubborn about that...

Edit: If really pressed on the issue, I will admit to being a Piltdown-American.

I'm African American (no hyphen). Perhaps you should take your cue from the person you are communicating with.
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #229 of 240
9/7/11 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

I'm African American (no hyphen). Perhaps you should take your cue from the person you are communicating with.

Touché! Common courtesy (and common sense) dictates that you are correct!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #230 of 240
9/7/11 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Welcome to the AI forums.

It would help if you would quote the posts, or any parts of the original article that you find offensive.

You can also report any specific post to the moderators by clicking the red flag under the poster's name in the left hand column.

That said, I didn't notice anything I thought offensive in this thread. I tend to skim-read, or ignore, posts from posters with an obvious agenda to be disruptive -- so I could have missed an offensive post.

Also, I tend to ignore hyphenated classifications of people as being rather pointless.

What are you supposed to call someone of pure Dutch descent whose ancestors of multiple generations were born in Africa... Dutch-African? African-Dutch? Dutch? African? Boer? Afrikaans?

For the record, I am of the Caucasian Race, of German, Dutch and Romanian Ancestry -- with some Jewish ancestry mixed in...

I consider myself to be a person, and an American -- no hyphens asserted or needed! (We German/Dutch are pretty stubborn about that...

Edit: If really pressed on the issue, I will admit to being a Piltdown-American.

Thank you, Dick, it's nice to be here...

I've taken note of these types of remarks on AI with increasing frequency, but have avoided the temptation to comment on them until now. While it would certainly have made my argument stronger, I ultimately didn't feel the need to duplicate the statement(s) here. If I'm moved to do so again, however, I will definitely side towards your suggestion for clarity.
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post #231 of 240
9/7/11 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by prokrustes View Post

Thank you, Dick, it's nice to be here...

I've taken note of these types of remarks on AI with increasing frequency, but have avoided the temptation to comment on them until now. While it would certainly have made my argument stronger, I ultimately didn't feel the need to duplicate the statement(s) here. If I'm moved to do so again, however, I will definitely side towards your suggestion for clarity.

For what it's worth, I haven't seen any of those types of remarks on this particular thread BUT I have seen some on the Samsung articles regarding Koreans. Best thing to do is report the offending comment and put the bugger on ignore. Welcome to the forums!
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #232 of 240
9/7/11 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

For what it's worth, I haven't seen any of those types of remarks on this particular thread BUT I have seen some on the Samsung articles regarding Koreans. Best thing to do is report the offending comment and put the bugger on ignore. Welcome to the forums!

Good advice!

Yes, there were some particularly offensive posts on some of those threads -- I believe that many were reported, then removed.

It isn't always apparent when posts are removed -- they just kind of disappear. But sometimes the totals (number of posts) don't match the remaining number of posts.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #233 of 240
9/7/11 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by prokrustes View Post

Thank you, Dick, it's nice to be here...

I've taken note of these types of remarks on AI with increasing frequency, but have avoided the temptation to comment on them until now. While it would certainly have made my argument stronger, I ultimately didn't feel the need to duplicate the statement(s) here. If I'm moved to do so again, however, I will definitely side towards your suggestion for clarity.

One thing you can do if you want to highlight a post without actually reproducing it is:

Reply to the original which will create a response post that quotes, and links to the original. Then remove the offensive material from the quoted post. For example, if I found your post (above) to be offensive, I might reference it as below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by prokrustes View Post


...

I've taken note of these types of remarks on AI with increasing frequency

...

Then add something like: "If you find the above post to be offensive, please flag the post so the mods will remove it".

... just an example, here


The worst thing you can do is quote the original... it just perpetuates it and makes it harder for the mods to remove it.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #234 of 240
9/7/11 at 2:01pm
I'm got nothing against the Orientals, it's those damn Occidentals that piss me of.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #235 of 240
9/7/11 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm got nothing against the Orientals, it's those damn Occidentals that piss me of.

The Northern Occidentals are OK, but...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #236 of 240
9/9/11 at 4:30pm
Well, apparently I'm wrong about the proportion of apps downloaded by iOS users as opposed to those using Android. I was saying it was about 2:1. It's not. According to the latest study, it's 6:1!

Sorry for the error.

http://techpinions.com/ios-is-still-...evelopers/2439
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post #237 of 240
9/9/11 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, apparently I'm wrong about the proportion of apps downloaded by iOS users as opposed to those using Android. I was saying it was about 2:1. It's not. According to the latest study, it's 6:1!

Sorry for the error.

http://techpinions.com/ios-is-still-...evelopers/2439

So now you find a survey you trust. Yes, I'll even agree with you tho perhaps not on those exact numbers. In any case iOS users have more apps downloaded on average than Android users, who still use a lot but not as many.

The encouraging part is the two words you strung together in your first sentence that I've never seen you write before now.

EDIT: This is a much better link if you wanted to make sure the "six times as many paid apps" was mentioned .
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/app...nes-2011-09-08

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #238 of 240
9/10/11 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Not saying this to offend you, but you really come off as being in denial about Android fragmentation, and that way failing to recognize the real reasons why Netflix isn't on your Galaxy Tab or why you have to root some devices to run Tegra games.

The point is: fragmentation is not just about what the hardware and software *can* do, but also what people companies and *actually do with it*. Like someone before me pointed out, Netflix has contracts that require them to warrant a certain level of security, and this takes time and money for each OS and each piece of hardware, so they decide to support only a few. . .

FWIW, the issue with Netflix was much more simple apparently. It's now available for Android devices with at least v2.2x, and that's almost all of them.

So much for a supposed DRM issue.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #239 of 240
9/11/11 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

So now you find a survey you trust. Yes, I'll even agree with you tho perhaps not on those exact numbers. In any case iOS users have more apps downloaded on average than Android users, who still use a lot but not as many.

The encouraging part is the two words you strung together in your first sentence that I've never seen you write before now.

EDIT: This is a much better link if you wanted to make sure the "six times as many paid apps" was mentioned .
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/app...nes-2011-09-08

It was the first one I saw. There are others now.
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post #240 of 240
9/11/11 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

FWIW, the issue with Netflix was much more simple apparently. It's now available for Android devices with at least v2.2x, and that's almost all of them.

So much for a supposed DRM issue.

I'm not all bad.

This supports that statement:

http://developer.android.com/resourc...-versions.html
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