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Dead Man Walking: The President Obama won't be reelected thread. - Page 7

post #241 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Very few of those closures were due to a weak economic market. I mean seriously, would your Republican or Libertarian jerks throw money at Borders to stop the change in reading habits, or throw money at Blockbuster to stop the change in media consumption habits? What a moronic assertion.

You are right here. However I don't think they would have fallen so fast if it wasn't for the economy. I'm just kind of sad that the book and video store are going away. Call me old fashioned but I liked the experience that I don't get from a Red Box or streaming from some service. It's just another reason for people not to go out and mingle. And books well the only thing I find wrong with not cutting down more trees to make paper is that all of our media is becoming electronic. Old tin types and books are still around after one hundred years. Will all of these hard drives that now store our thoughts and memories still be one hundred years from now? I know off topic but I just thought I'd bring that up anyway.
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post #242 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

It is not biased perhaps you are by not recognizing Obama numbers are increasing a little.Give the man some credit!

I think you haven't been reading the entire thread ( or you're kidding ) but I was.
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post #243 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Somebody probably needs to take a break. You're being rude, even by your standards. Perhaps you are angry that Jimmac is actually making you think and question and that scares you? Instead of being open to the possibility that what you believe might be wrong, you shut down and lash out like a frightened, wounded animal?

Show me evidence that conservative beliefs themselves come from fear. That's what I'm saying.
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post #244 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Show me evidence that conservative beliefs themselves come from fear. That's what I'm saying.

You've got to be kidding.
post #245 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

It is not biased perhaps you are by not recognizing Obama numbers are increasing a little.Give the man some credit!

I am giving him credit. Credit for not fixing a damn thing and his numbers have already dropped. Turns out the bounce was people visiting grandma. Good luck finding any news stories that declare "Obama's support collapses by ten percent of his total support in less than a week."

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'll tell you what's rude or really more dishonest in your debate technique is that you obviously didn't want me to see the rest of the article. And now you want to gloss over it.

I'm pretty sure I linked to it. I make it a habit of linking to things. Your complaint initially was that there were several pages and several links within this thread, and also that I linked to a list of complete writing of the neuroscientist. I simply said do a search. How is pointing someone to Google, where even someone clearly as technologically as inept as you can easily find it in two seconds. You said so yourself. It wasn't hard, it wasn't obscure. You're just making stuff up to DISTRACT from the point that both your neuroscientist and the one I cited refuted your points entirely.
Quote:
Whatever. Not exactly out of character trumpy. About the stores closing you can go all the way back to the begining of this the worst recession in my lifetime. Blame Bush for these closings and anyone else who was ignoring what was going on in the first decade of this century. And yes I know you'll never accept it but there's lots of examples of you this way. So nothing new.

They CAN, but these were specifically listed as store closings THIS YEAR IN 2011. I'm the guy that can't accept things when you are still blaming Bush for the entire Obama first term. Really, how crazy and delusional is that? It's almost like the man was never president. Obama 2012- Bush never really went away and was secretly running the country the last four years!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Show me evidence that conservative beliefs themselves come from fear. That's what I'm saying.

There you go asking questions about assumptions within a study again. How dare you question assumptions when studies aren't supposed to make them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You've got to be kidding.

Sorry he didn't put in a pretty picture for you tonton. We know liberals love them.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #246 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I am giving him credit. Credit for not fixing a damn thing and his numbers have already dropped. Turns out the bounce was people visiting grandma. Good luck finding any news stories that declare "Obama's support collapses by ten percent of his total support in less than a week."



I'm pretty sure I linked to it. I make it a habit of linking to things. Your complaint initially was that there were several pages and several links within this thread, and also that I linked to a list of complete writing of the neuroscientist. I simply said do a search. How is pointing someone to Google, where even someone clearly as technologically as inept as you can easily find it in two seconds. You said so yourself. It wasn't hard, it wasn't obscure. You're just making stuff up to DISTRACT from the point that both your neuroscientist and the one I cited refuted your points entirely.


They CAN, but these were specifically listed as store closings THIS YEAR IN 2011. I'm the guy that can't accept things when you are still blaming Bush for the entire Obama first term. Really, how crazy and delusional is that? It's almost like the man was never president. Obama 2012- Bush never really went away and was secretly running the country the last four years!



There you go asking questions about assumptions within a study again. How dare you question assumptions when studies aren't supposed to make them!



Sorry he didn't put in a pretty picture for you tonton. We know liberals love them.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure I linked to it. I make it a habit of linking to things.

Your link provided several papers. Not just one so I found quote by looking myself. This only just proves you don't even read the posts you're replying to.

And Bush left us with a legacy that will last more than just Obama's time in office. Several of us were saying that while he was still president.

The rest is pure sophistry.
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post #247 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Show me evidence that conservative beliefs themselves come from fear. That's what I'm saying.

Just look at the way you reacted to my posts!
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post #248 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Just look at the way you reacted to my posts!

The irony is palpable.

 

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post #249 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You've got to be kidding.

Conservatives are hypocrites and show no fear except when they are losing their power which is phony anyway.Gingrich phony tear act! Give me a break.
post #250 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I am giving him credit. Credit for not fixing a damn thing and his numbers have already dropped. Turns out the bounce was people visiting grandma. Good luck finding any news stories that declare "Obama's support collapses by ten percent of his total support in less than a week."



I'm pretty sure I linked to it. I make it a habit of linking to things. Your complaint initially was that there were several pages and several links within this thread, and also that I linked to a list of complete writing of the neuroscientist. I simply said do a search. How is pointing someone to Google, where even someone clearly as technologically as inept as you can easily find it in two seconds. You said so yourself. It wasn't hard, it wasn't obscure. You're just making stuff up to DISTRACT from the point that both your neuroscientist and the one I cited refuted your points entirely.


They CAN, but these were specifically listed as store closings THIS YEAR IN 2011. I'm the guy that can't accept things when you are still blaming Bush for the entire Obama first term. Really, how crazy and delusional is that? It's almost like the man was never president. Obama 2012- Bush never really went away and was secretly running the country the last four years!



There you go asking questions about assumptions within a study again. How dare you question assumptions when studies aren't supposed to make them!



Sorry he didn't put in a pretty picture for you tonton. We know liberals love them.

Who the hell do you want as president for 2012???
post #251 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Who the hell do you want as president for 2012???

I'd like Newt Gingrich. Sober up and we can discuss it.

Washington Post

Quote:
The document, portions of which were reviewed by The Washington Post, lays out how GOP officials plan to use Obamas words and voice as they build an argument for his defeat: that he made specific promises and entered office with lofty expectations and has failed to deliver on both.

Republican officials say they will leverage the partys newly catalogued video library containing every publicly available utterance from Obama since his 2008 campaign. Television and Internet ads will juxtapose specific Obama promises of job gains, homeowner assistance, help for people in poverty, lower health insurance premiums and stricter White House ethics standards against government data and news clippings that paint a different reality.

The decision by GOP officials to finalize a strategy at this stage underscores the view, in both parties, that the general-election campaign has begun even if an official Republican nominee has not been selected.

The new GOP playbook is designed to take one of Obamas great assets the power of his oratory and turn it into a liability. It details hundreds of potential targets, partially a result of a president who Republican strategists say is unusually prone to making detailed promises.

A 2009 Obama statement that his stimulus bill would lift 2 million Americans out of poverty, for example, is paired against census data showing that more than 6 million Americans have fallen into poverty since he took office. A pledge that an administration housing plan would help between 7 and 9 million families restructure or refinance their mortgages is paired against news reports showing the government spent far less than promised and aided fewer than 2 million.

And his 2008 Democratic nomination acceptance speech vow that a green jobs initiative would create 5 million jobs is matched up against news reports from this year depicting lackluster results and headlines about Solyndra, the failed maker of solar panels that received hundreds of millions in federal loan guarantees.

It isn't exactly revolutionary to run against someone by holding them accountable on their record, but in Obama's case the record is so bad, and the media will be trying so hard to change the subject, that I am glad to see the focus on it.

Quote:
A Romney win should make for an easy transition, as the books primary author, Joe Pounder, a 28-year-old specialist in the political dark arts and the RNCs research director, is a former Romney campaign aide. And Romney appears to already have adopted the same approach often quoting Obama directly and even visiting venues where Obama spoke as a candidate or as president.

Last summer, Romney spoke at a now-shuttered Allentown, Pa., metal works factory that Obama had hailed a year earlier before it closed as a symbol of his economic success. The event was accompanied by a video, called Obama Isnt Working, depicting images of the visit coupled with a year-after picture of the abandoned factory floor.

Last week, Romney spoke in Davenport, Iowa, down the street from the spot where Obama gave one of his last pre-caucus campaign speeches four years earlier.

He closed with these words: This is our moment. This is our time,  Romney said. Well, Mr. President, you have now had your moment. We have seen the results. . . . You have failed to deliver on the promises you made here in Davenport.

This will be good because the media will of course focus on how anyone who doesn't want to re-elect Obama is a racist, hates the poor, you know the usual ad-homs tossed around here as well.

Quote:
Still, party officials believe that many independent voters more than eight in 10 of whom think the country is on the wrong track, according to a November Washington Post-ABC News poll are ready to accept the premise that Obama didnt work out. Officials said they settled on the plan to use the presidents own words after examining private and public polls showing that the approach resonated with swing voters nationally and in key battlegrounds.

Because the president remains personally well liked, [the GOP strategy] is a good way to not have to swim against that tide, said Ed Gillespie, a former RNC chairman who is in regular contact with senior party officials. Its his own words.

The left is already unenergetic and the polls show that the majority of people have pulled away from Obama. This will remind them not to go back and there will be plenty of good reasons with whomever the Republicans nominate, especially since they will be talking about the top concerns, the economy, run away spending and the deficit.

Quote:
The new book contains more than a dozen chapters, including a 73-page section titled The Obama Economy, and has separate chapters logging local-level campaign promises delivered during stops in places such as Cleveland, Denver and Scranton, Pa.

When Obama heads out on the campaign trail, officials will use the newly compiled quotes and data to put in place a full-scale mobilization, including videos, op-eds in local papers, calls with local media outlets and appearances by local GOP supporters, all designed to highlight the presidents past statements in each locale, said Sean Spicer, the RNCs spokesman. Promises relating to the Hispanic community will be fed to Hispanic bloggers and media.

Well obviously the media won't act on them much but it will help whoever they have on to try to foil and attack as their conservative punching bag. Follow the man and make him answer for what he says is exactly what Gingrich was talking about as a strategy to get him to debate as well. The man cannot defend his record.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #252 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'd like Newt Gingrich. Sober up and we can discuss it.

Washington Post



It isn't exactly revolutionary to run against someone by holding them accountable on their record, but in Obama's case the record is so bad, and the media will be trying so hard to change the subject, that I am glad to see the focus on it.



This will be good because the media will of course focus on how anyone who doesn't want to re-elect Obama is a racist, hates the poor, you know the usual ad-homs tossed around here as well.



The left is already unenergetic and the polls show that the majority of people have pulled away from Obama. This will remind them not to go back and there will be plenty of good reasons with whomever the Republicans nominate, especially since they will be talking about the top concerns, the economy, run away spending and the deficit.



Well obviously the media won't act on them much but it will help whoever they have on to try to foil and attack as their conservative punching bag. Follow the man and make him answer for what he says is exactly what Gingrich was talking about as a strategy to get him to debate as well. The man cannot defend his record.

Do you honestly think Newt has a chance to win in 2012? he has to much baggage that is dragging him down in the polls.Obama is no saint either.
post #253 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'd like Newt Gingrich. Sober up and we can discuss it.

Washington Post



It isn't exactly revolutionary to run against someone by holding them accountable on their record, but in Obama's case the record is so bad, and the media will be trying so hard to change the subject, that I am glad to see the focus on it.



This will be good because the media will of course focus on how anyone who doesn't want to re-elect Obama is a racist, hates the poor, you know the usual ad-homs tossed around here as well.



The left is already unenergetic and the polls show that the majority of people have pulled away from Obama. This will remind them not to go back and there will be plenty of good reasons with whomever the Republicans nominate, especially since they will be talking about the top concerns, the economy, run away spending and the deficit.



Well obviously the media won't act on them much but it will help whoever they have on to try to foil and attack as their conservative punching bag. Follow the man and make him answer for what he says is exactly what Gingrich was talking about as a strategy to get him to debate as well. The man cannot defend his record.

Yeah! Make it Newt! Can't wait!
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post #254 of 886
Thread Starter 
Gloomy numbers for Obama - Washington Post

Quote:
The presidents approval rating is lower than his disapproval rating. In mid-December, Gallup had him underwater by eight points: 42 percent approval and 50 percent disapproval.

This is four points better than where Obama was in September, reflecting his political victory over congressional Republicans in last months battle over extending the payroll tax cut. But the impact appears to have been short-lived. His current Gallup approval rating is the lowest ever for any incumbent president at this point in his first term.

Obama continues to be historic!

Quote:
Obamas ratings on the economy, the issue voters care about most, consistently trail his overall numbers. His top legislative accomplishment health-care reform remains unpopular. Its 20 points underwater in a December Associated Press-GfK poll.

It's sort of hard to run on your accomplishments when people hate them and when you have no credibility on the number one concern.

Quote:
If Democrats saw Obamas 2008 victory as a chance to build a progressive majority, they have so far failed to capitalize. Gallup recently asked Americans to rate their ideology on a liberal-to-conservative scale of 1 to 5. The average result was a right-of-center 3.3.

More alarming for Obama, voters scored him at 2.3, to the left of center and put Mitt Romney at 3.5. Every other GOP contender was to the right of the mean, except Jon Huntsman, who hit the ideological bulls-eye. But even Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann came closer to the middle than Obama did.

Obama is completely out of touch with the mainstream of America.

Quote:
According to Gallup, Romney is viewed strongly positively and strongly negatively by equal numbers of Americans. Obama, by contrast, inspires 11 percent more hostility than favorability, the same as Newt Gingrich. Even Democrats view Romney with relatively little negative intensity.

The public is hostile towards the president.

Quote:
In 2008, swing-state party identification favored Democrats by 11 points; now the Democratic edge is down to two points.

Obama has been party of the left throwing people out of their party. The center has left him since he is not there ideologically.

Quote:
In short, for all the weaknesses of the Republican opposition, Barack Obama faces a dicey future as 2012 begins. Many factors that could affect his chances are beyond his control.

And if he does win, the prize could be four years of fending off center-right attempts to undo the policies of his first term, rather than pursuing an expansive progressive agenda. Happy new year, Mr. President.

Even if he wins, he loses.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #255 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yeah! Make it Newt! Can't wait!

Yes, by all means...root for the guy that you think can't beat your guy. Screw the country, this is about getting the "w."
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post #256 of 886
Clearly Jimmac believes none of the current crop of Republican candidates, if that's what you want to call them, will be better than Barack Obama. Perhaps, Jimmac feels that despite President Obama's flaws, he is still what is best for this country. Thus, wouldn't rooting for shitty opposition be rooting for what he feels is the best outcome?

In fact, it's the opposite of the "screw the country" (while we hold it hostage over a manufactured debt crisis to keep tax cuts for the .01%) mentality. He's rooting for this country.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #257 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Clearly Jimmac believes none of the current crop of Republican candidates, if that's what you want to call them, will be better than Barack Obama. Perhaps, Jimmac feels that despite President Obama's flaws, he is still what is best for this country. Thus, wouldn't rooting for shitty opposition be rooting for what he feels is the best outcome?

He's not engaged in any sort of explanation along those lines, nor has he been able to defend why he supports Obama. He won't even come out and say he does. He just trashes the Republican candidates and calls them a "joke."

Quote:

In fact, it's the opposite of the "screw the country" (while we hold it hostage over a manufactured debt crisis to keep tax cuts for the .01%) mentality. He's rooting for this country.

Manufactured debt crisis? And you realize that it was the DEMOCRATS holding up the most recent tax cuts, correct?
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post #258 of 886
Awesome...Obama has broken with his own admin's position on recess appointments:

Quote:
The president acted just a day after the Senate held a session — a move that breaks with at least three different precedents that said the Senate must be in recess for at least three days. Mr. Obama himself was part of two of those precedents, both during his own time in the Senate and again in 2010 when one of his administration’s top constitutional lawyers made the three-day argument to the Supreme Court.

And from the left? Crickets.
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post #259 of 886
Yes, how dare Obama not just continue to bend over and take all the obstructionist bullshit from the nitwits in congress. I'm glad he got someone appointed to head the Consumer Protection Agency. We fucking needed that for ages.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #260 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Clearly Jimmac believes none of the current crop of Republican candidates, if that's what you want to call them, will be better than Barack Obama. Perhaps, Jimmac feels that despite President Obama's flaws, he is still what is best for this country. Thus, wouldn't rooting for shitty opposition be rooting for what he feels is the best outcome?

In fact, it's the opposite of the "screw the country" (while we hold it hostage over a manufactured debt crisis to keep tax cuts for the .01%) mentality. He's rooting for this country.

Thank you! It appears you understand without any explanation.
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post #261 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

He's not engaged in any sort of explanation along those lines, nor has he been able to defend why he supports Obama. He won't even come out and say he does. He just trashes the Republican candidates and calls them a "joke."



Manufactured debt crisis? And you realize that it was the DEMOCRATS holding up the most recent tax cuts, correct?

Quote:
He's not engaged in any sort of explanation along those lines, nor has he been able to defend why he supports Obama. He won't even come out and say he does. He just trashes the Republican candidates and calls them a "joke."

What a joke! I've already been over this ( I guess you don't retain stuff very long ). The conservative candidates are a joke. Obama hasn't done everything that I've wanted but he's still light years better than the alternative.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house...ry?id=15212988

Quote:
House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cut Extension

Quote:
And you realize that it was the DEMOCRATS holding up the most recent tax cuts, correct

Uh sure.......
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post #262 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

What a joke! I've already been over this ( I guess you don't retain stuff very long ). The conservative candidates are a joke. Obama hasn't done everything that I've wanted but he's still light years better than the alternative.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house...ry?id=15212988





Uh sure.......

So..you just confirmed what I posted. You called the candidates a joke and gave no explanation for why you support Obama. I, on the other hand, have detailed specifically why I do not support the President, and specifically why I support Mitt Romney.

1. What makes all the candidates "a joke?"

2. Why do you support Obama?
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post #263 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So..you just confirmed what I posted. You called the candidates a joke and gave no explanation for why you support Obama. I, on the other hand, have detailed specifically why I do not support the President, and specifically why I support Mitt Romney.

1. What makes all the candidates "a joke?"

2. Why do you support Obama?

None of them has a comprehensive plan for fixing the economy or the job market. They all seem to have a piece of the puzzle but not in a global sense. Huntsman this morning outlined one of their problems in that they are all ignoring the truth that Obama is not the devil ( when attacked by Romney over his employment and praise of Obama ) and even Perry stated the problem with the economy was there long before Obama took office ( even though he feels he has made it worse ) the voting public is tired of this polarization but a good number of the GOP doesn’t get this. If you listen to Romney or the others they seem to imply that Obama caused all of this. Part of their biggest problem is that they think just getting rid of Obama or if " Government will just get out of the way " it will fix things. It won't. The Democrats aren't the enemy they are half the political philosophy out there that must be recognized. This country works best when both parties work together representing both sides of the voting public and they haven't been doing that. They're caught up in winning and that's more important than doing what's right for the country. Most of the conservative candidates range from silly to scary. Some of them actually get what's going on ( like Huntsman ) but don't really have all of the answers. And are busy fending off attacks from their own peer group.

At least Obama tries to work with them. He doesn't do everything that I wanted and his priorities are not in line with what I think is important but he's so much better than the alternative it's silly.

Here's a link to the debate in case you didn't catch it : http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...acebook-debate

Obama knows we have to work together. Most of these jokers don't. I'm sure you won't agree in that most of your posts have indicated you don't see any of this anymore than most of these candidates do. That's why Obama will probabaly get a second term. He can see that most of the voters are tired of the party of " No " and don't buy what they're peddling anymore. It's been extremely ineffective. All Obama has to do is continue to point that out. Sure something bad could happen between now like a Clinton type scandal or the economy could go sharply south to change this but that's rather unlikely.

And no it wasn't the Democrats that were holding things up ( the link doesn't indicate that either ) it was the Republicans.

What do you think this was saying?
Quote:
House GOP leaders appeared to be adopting a compromise suggested by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to pass the two-month extension in exchange for the Senate appointing members to a conference committee, which will negotiate a longer-term solution. The proposal won a nod of approval from President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

But Boehner was visibly unhappy with the deal.

"Kicking a can down the road for a couple of months does cause problems," he said at a news conference today.

House Republicans had originally wanted a one-year extension but faced mounting pressure from conservatives and their Senate counterparts to come to an agreement on the short-term deal.

"Sometimes it's politically difficult to do the right thing," Boehner said.

He admitted that the House Republicans' refusal to compromise on the short-term extension, which received backlash even from conservatives, politically "may not be the smartest thing in this world... but our members waged a good fight."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house...ry?id=15212988
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post #264 of 886

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #265 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

None of them has a comprehensive plan for fixing the economy or the job market. They all seem to have a piece of the puzzle but not in a global sense.

What the hell are you babbling about? All major candidates have put forward complete plans. You seriously say such things when we had Democrats passing major pieces of legislation completely unread and declaring they'd have to pass it to see what was inside. As for the globe, it is a mess. China's unbalanced economy is slowing. The Euro as a currency is disintegrating and the EU has no plan for how to transition or fix it. Your double standards are shocking and dishonest. For Obama, you simply declared we had to do "something" and that "anything was better than Bush." From Republicans you GET comprehensive plans but ignore and lie about them.

Quote:
Huntsman this morning outlined one of their problems in that they are all ignoring the truth that Obama is not the devil ( when attacked by Romney over his employment and praise of Obama ) and even Perry stated the problem with the economy was there long before Obama took office ( even though he feels he has made it worse ) the voting public is tired of this polarization but a good number of the GOP doesn’t get this.

The problem was indeed there before Obama. The problem is the social welfare state, the dependency that is ever growing under it, and the fact that there isn't a plan out there that can fund or continue it. The prior generations, in our case the Boomers, believe all can continue as it did and that somehow the numbers will add up down the line due to borrowing and mythical multipliers. It can't. The fact that it can't continue might be polarizing to those who want to continue it or those who will go broke because they are counting on it and haven't considered the fact that governments can go broke, but reality cannot be avoided here.

Quote:
If you listen to Romney or the others they seem to imply that Obama caused all of this. Part of their biggest problem is that they think just getting rid of Obama or if " Government will just get out of the way " it will fix things. It won't. The Democrats aren't the enemy they are half the political philosophy out there that must be recognized. This country works best when both parties work together representing both sides of the voting public and they haven't been doing that. They're caught up in winning and that's more important than doing what's right for the country.

Wrong, dead wrong. The Democrats are doing what they have always done, expanded dependency and creating crony-capitalism to buy votes from the poor who they claim to represent. Government must get out of the way because it is the thing that is causing the country to go bankrupt. There isn't a business or financial entity out there that can spend and borrow at the rate the Federal government does. With all the 99% vs. 1% talk people have run the number. Go ahead and ignore this fact because you'd rather demagogue things but it is true.

You could confiscate every penny the top 1% have, not just their income or a percentage of their investments but everything down to the ice in their refrigerators. It would get you 1.5 trillion or enough to pay for the borrowing of the Federal government for about 13-15 months. Stop your bullshit about bipartisanship. Obama has had since 2010 to be bipartisan. He has had since 2008 to win Republican votes. He hasn't done anything of the sort and it isn't the fault of Republicans that he is so partisan. Even now the man is making unconstitutional appointments while ignoring the fact that Congress isn't in recess. The Democrats have spent, ignored and run over everyone and everything to try to push their their agenda. They bet on bad ideas. Now they have to run on the results.

Quote:
Most of the conservative candidates range from silly to scary. Some of them actually get what's going on ( like Huntsman ) but don't really have all of the answers. And are busy fending off attacks from their own peer group.

The reason they seem scary is because the level of Democratic corruption has been fully revealed. Party identification is down 8 points for Democrats and Republican identification is up 3 points. That is an 11 point swing and that was part of what was seen in 2010. Acorn has been exposed and more states are passing measures to protect the vote. Soon the broke Democratic blue states like Illinois and California with their massive debts, bounced checks and dead voters will be all that they can count on.

Quote:
At least Obama tries to work with them. He doesn't do everything that I wanted and his priorities are not in line with what I think is important but he's so much better than the alternative it's silly.

Obama has added more to the national debt than all the presidents combined except Bush and he is barely behind Bush in three years while Bush had 8 years. There are more wars around the world. Obama has done nothing on human rights, on peace, on helping our allies. All he has done is made all he has touched worse. The man cannot run on his record at all and that is why folks like yourself are spreading these talking points about silly and scary while praying no one notices the lack of leadership and results the last entire term.

Quote:
Obama knows we have to work together. Most of these jokers don't. I'm sure you won't agree in that most of your posts have indicated you don't see any of this anymore than most of these candidates do. That's why Obama will probabaly get a second term. He can see that most of the voters are tired of the party of " No " and don't buy what they're peddling anymore. It's been extremely ineffective. All Obama has to do is continue to point that out. Sure something bad could happen between now like a Clinton type scandal or the economy could go sharply south to change this but that's rather unlikely.

The polls basically state your claims are delusional. The party of "no" is nothing more than a Democratic talking point. Obama is a giant boat anchor on his party and that is why Democrat like Nelson are retiring and running for the hills. They know the entire cycle will be against them and they'd rather go out on their own terms than face defeat. There are plenty of Obama scandals from running guns to crony green company loans. The media doesn't report on them because they are Obama cheerleaders. The stimulus didn't stimulate. The entire term is a giant scandal in terms of no shovel ready jobs, cash for cronies, etc.


Quote:
And no it wasn't the Democrats that were holding things up ( the link doesn't indicate that either ) it was the Republicans.

What do you think this was saying?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house...ry?id=15212988

Democrats want short term solutions (2 months) because their media surrogates prefer to hype the "crisis" du jour rather than reporting on the big issues that need to be addressed. The Democrats are the party of fear and if they can drum up a reason to keep everyone scared every two months, then they don't have to let people realize Obama stole their hope.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #266 of 886
Thread Starter 
Seven lies.

All the GOP should do for 2012 is just play old Obama footage and watch the Democrats slink away in embarrassment.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #267 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

All the GOP should do for 2012 is just play old Obama footage and watch the Democrats slink away in embarrassment.

Yep, (unfortunately) attacking your opponents really does work better in politics than taking the high ground.
post #268 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Yep, (unfortunately) attacking your opponents really does work better in politics than taking the high ground.

Is just playing what they previously said really an attack?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #269 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Is just playing what they previously said really an attack?

I think so. An attack doesn't have to be untrue, it is just something done with the intent to harm someone or their cause. The fact that Obama is in a position where merely highlighting the truth can damage his cause, well, he has no one but himself to blame.
post #270 of 886
In that sense, wouldn't he really be attacking himself?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #271 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

In that sense, wouldn't he really be attacking himself?

It's more like reality is an attack.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #272 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

None of them has a comprehensive plan for fixing the economy or the job market. They all seem to have a piece of the puzzle but not in a global sense.

That is absolutely false. Romney has the most comprehensive plan of any candidate.

Quote:

Huntsman this morning outlined one of their problems in that they are all ignoring the truth that Obama is not the devil ( when attacked by Romney over his employment and praise of Obama )

Hunstman is trying desperately to gain ground. He's irrelevant.

Quote:
and even Perry stated the problem with the economy was there long before Obama took office ( even though he feels he has made it worse ) the voting public is tired of this polarization but a good number of the GOP doesn’t get this.

Apparently President Obama doesn't get it. He's the most divisive of all.

Quote:
If you listen to Romney or the others they seem to imply that Obama caused all of this.


That is your inference. In fact, Romney has stated what Perry has said.

Quote:

Part of their biggest problem is that they think just getting rid of Obama or if " Government will just get out of the way " it will fix things. It won't.

Yes, it will. At least, that's part of it.

Quote:
The Democrats aren't the enemy they are half the political philosophy out there that must be recognized.

No, that is objectively false as well. They are not half the philosophy. They are about 30 percent of it, center-right thinking is 40 percent, and moderates are 30 percent.


Quote:
This country works best when both parties work together representing both sides of the voting public and they haven't been doing that.

They haven't been doing that for a long time.

Quote:

They're caught up in winning and that's more important than doing what's right for the country.


Yes, I agree the Democrats are doing that.

Quote:
Most of the conservative candidates range from silly to scary.

Tell us...which ones are silly (and why) and which ones are scary (and why).

Quote:

Some of them actually get what's going on ( like Huntsman ) but don't really have all of the answers. And are busy fending off attacks from their own peer group.

Why is Hunstman any better? What does he "get?"

Quote:


At least Obama tries to work with them. He doesn't do everything that I wanted and his priorities are not in line with what I think is important but he's so much better than the alternative it's silly.

He doesn't try to work with them at all. In fact, I'm amazed at how different he's governed compared to how he campaigned. He's used every opportunity to beat the GOP over the head. He's the most partisan President in my lifetime.

Quote:

Here's a link to the debate in case you didn't catch it : http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...acebook-debate

Obama knows we have to work together.

He has not demonstrated that at all. His definition of working together is to slam the "do nothing Congress" because they won't do whatever he wants.



Quote:
Most of these jokers don't.

There you go again. Romney, for one, has specifically talked about working with the other side...and actuall did so in Massachusetts.

Quote:
I'm sure you won't agree in that most of your posts have indicated you don't see any of this anymore than most of these candidates do. That's why Obama will probabaly get a second term. He can see that most of the voters are tired of the party of " No " and don't buy what they're peddling anymore. It's been extremely ineffective. All Obama has to do is continue to point that out. Sure something bad could happen between now like a Clinton type scandal or the economy could go sharply south to change this but that's rather unlikely.

None of the polling data supports what you are predicting.

Quote:

And no it wasn't the Democrats that were holding things up ( the link doesn't indicate that either ) it was the Republicans.

The GOP wanted a one year extension. The President wanted two months, and refused to support the Keystone XL pipeline. You tell me who was holding things up.

Quote:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The media has actually got you believing that GOP wanted grandma to starve while our hero President Obama just wanted to give people their money back. In reality the GOP doesn't like the payroll cut because it comes directly out of Social Security, and is a short term and small cut unlikely to simulate anything. Meanwhile, we'll just completely ignore that Obama has now cut Medicare by half a trillion dollars and reduced funding for the already screwed up SS system.

In summary, your posts comes down to:

1. The GOP candidates are jokers and don't get it, except for Huntsman, but he doesn't have all the answers.

2. Obama is better than these jokers because he wants to "work with people."



Any other reasons?
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post #273 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That is absolutely false. Romney has the most comprehensive plan of any candidate.



Hunstman is trying desperately to gain ground. He's irrelevant.



Apparently President Obama doesn't get it. He's the most divisive of all.




That is your inference. In fact, Romney has stated what Perry has said.



Yes, it will. At least, that's part of it.



No, that is objectively false as well. They are not half the philosophy. They are about 30 percent of it, center-right thinking is 40 percent, and moderates are 30 percent.




They haven't been doing that for a long time.




Yes, I agree the Democrats are doing that.



Tell us...which ones are silly (and why) and which ones are scary (and why).



Why is Hunstman any better? What does he "get?"



He doesn't try to work with them at all. In fact, I'm amazed at how different he's governed compared to how he campaigned. He's used every opportunity to beat the GOP over the head. He's the most partisan President in my lifetime.



He has not demonstrated that at all. His definition of working together is to slam the "do nothing Congress" because they won't do whatever he wants.





There you go again. Romney, for one, has specifically talked about working with the other side...and actuall did so in Massachusetts.



None of the polling data supports what you are predicting.



The GOP wanted a one year extension. The President wanted two months, and refused to support the Keystone XL pipeline. You tell me who was holding things up.



This is exactly what I'm talking about. The media has actually got you believing that GOP wanted grandma to starve while our hero President Obama just wanted to give people their money back. In reality the GOP doesn't like the payroll cut because it comes directly out of Social Security, and is a short term and small cut unlikely to simulate anything. Meanwhile, we'll just completely ignore that Obama has now cut Medicare by half a trillion dollars and reduced funding for the already screwed up SS system.

In summary, your posts comes down to:

1. The GOP candidates are jokers and don't get it, except for Huntsman, but he doesn't have all the answers.

2. Obama is better than these jokers because he wants to "work with people."



Any other reasons?

Thank you for your very subjective opinion. Not surprising given your inability to see reality clearly before during the Bush administration why would one expect it to change now?



Quote:
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The media has actually got you believing that GOP wanted grandma to starve while our hero President Obama just wanted to give people their money back.

Yes all of the media except FOX news is telling a lie!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #274 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What the hell are you babbling about? All major candidates have put forward complete plans. You seriously say such things when we had Democrats passing major pieces of legislation completely unread and declaring they'd have to pass it to see what was inside. As for the globe, it is a mess. China's unbalanced economy is slowing. The Euro as a currency is disintegrating and the EU has no plan for how to transition or fix it. Your double standards are shocking and dishonest. For Obama, you simply declared we had to do "something" and that "anything was better than Bush." From Republicans you GET comprehensive plans but ignore and lie about them.



The problem was indeed there before Obama. The problem is the social welfare state, the dependency that is ever growing under it, and the fact that there isn't a plan out there that can fund or continue it. The prior generations, in our case the Boomers, believe all can continue as it did and that somehow the numbers will add up down the line due to borrowing and mythical multipliers. It can't. The fact that it can't continue might be polarizing to those who want to continue it or those who will go broke because they are counting on it and haven't considered the fact that governments can go broke, but reality cannot be avoided here.



Wrong, dead wrong. The Democrats are doing what they have always done, expanded dependency and creating crony-capitalism to buy votes from the poor who they claim to represent. Government must get out of the way because it is the thing that is causing the country to go bankrupt. There isn't a business or financial entity out there that can spend and borrow at the rate the Federal government does. With all the 99% vs. 1% talk people have run the number. Go ahead and ignore this fact because you'd rather demagogue things but it is true.

You could confiscate every penny the top 1% have, not just their income or a percentage of their investments but everything down to the ice in their refrigerators. It would get you 1.5 trillion or enough to pay for the borrowing of the Federal government for about 13-15 months. Stop your bullshit about bipartisanship. Obama has had since 2010 to be bipartisan. He has had since 2008 to win Republican votes. He hasn't done anything of the sort and it isn't the fault of Republicans that he is so partisan. Even now the man is making unconstitutional appointments while ignoring the fact that Congress isn't in recess. The Democrats have spent, ignored and run over everyone and everything to try to push their their agenda. They bet on bad ideas. Now they have to run on the results.



The reason they seem scary is because the level of Democratic corruption has been fully revealed. Party identification is down 8 points for Democrats and Republican identification is up 3 points. That is an 11 point swing and that was part of what was seen in 2010. Acorn has been exposed and more states are passing measures to protect the vote. Soon the broke Democratic blue states like Illinois and California with their massive debts, bounced checks and dead voters will be all that they can count on.



Obama has added more to the national debt than all the presidents combined except Bush and he is barely behind Bush in three years while Bush had 8 years. There are more wars around the world. Obama has done nothing on human rights, on peace, on helping our allies. All he has done is made all he has touched worse. The man cannot run on his record at all and that is why folks like yourself are spreading these talking points about silly and scary while praying no one notices the lack of leadership and results the last entire term.



The polls basically state your claims are delusional. The party of "no" is nothing more than a Democratic talking point. Obama is a giant boat anchor on his party and that is why Democrat like Nelson are retiring and running for the hills. They know the entire cycle will be against them and they'd rather go out on their own terms than face defeat. There are plenty of Obama scandals from running guns to crony green company loans. The media doesn't report on them because they are Obama cheerleaders. The stimulus didn't stimulate. The entire term is a giant scandal in terms of no shovel ready jobs, cash for cronies, etc.




Democrats want short term solutions (2 months) because their media surrogates prefer to hype the "crisis" du jour rather than reporting on the big issues that need to be addressed. The Democrats are the party of fear and if they can drum up a reason to keep everyone scared every two months, then they don't have to let people realize Obama stole their hope.

Quote:
All major candidates have put forward complete plans.

That will work?

And we could talk about the rest of what their term in office would do however remembering who I'm talking to..............................
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #275 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Romney has the most comprehensive plan of any candidate.

But he is the establishment choice, and don't underestimate how much that counts against him. The current establishment/party duopoly seems unable to steer away from the abyss.
post #276 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

That will work?

And we could talk about the rest of what their term in office would do however remembering who I'm talking to..............................

I have an idea. How about you actually, I don't know...READ THEM and judge them on their merits? Romney has a very detailed plan, complete with actions to take immediately upon being sworn in, legislation proposals, etc. What does Obama have?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #277 of 886
Ron Paul is the only one proposing actual spending cuts instead of reductions in future spending.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #278 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

But he is the establishment choice, and don't underestimate how much that counts against him. The current establishment/party duopoly seems unable to steer away from the abyss.

Perhaps the people they are steering don't realize there is an abyss and also aren't inclined towards detours.

We are getting what we deserve in many ways. When I still flip on my television occasionally I haven't seen any end to the commercials promising crunching my abs will help me lose 50 lbs or with this DVD set, I'll become a millionaire. The flip side of that is people are just sitting around collecting benefits. Social Security Disability is the new Welfare don't ya know.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #279 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Thank you for your very subjective opinion. Not surprising given your inability to see reality clearly before during the Bush administration why would one expect it to change now?

Reality is that Obama is in deep trouble any way you look at it. I'll repost some data that clearly demonstrates this:

1. Official unemployment is 8.5%. No President has been reelected with more than 7% unemployment other than Reagan. His was 7.2% but was falling rapidly.

2. Real unemployment is at least 11% because of workers that have stopped looking for work.

3. Obama presided over the first ever downgrade of U.S. credit and the accumulation of more debt in four years than all other Presidents combined.

4. The deficit is now 4 times higher than it was at its highest during the Bush administration.

5. Obama's poll numbers have improved slightly, but he still hovers around 45% at best. If he doesn't get to at least 49%, reelection becomes extremely unlikely.

6. Polling data indicates that 75% of the American public believes the nation is on the wrong track. Consumer confidence and optimism about the economy are very low.

7. Party identification is up for Republicans and down for Democrats.

8. Independents have left Obama in droves. They got him elected in 2008. His numbers are now down by as much as 20 points.

9. Obama's approval among blacks has dropped from 83 to 58 percent.

10. It's the economy, stupid.

Quote:


Yes all of the media except FOX news is telling a lie!

I didn't post that, you did.
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post #280 of 886
And the Republicans have done their best to keep the unemployment numbers high and the economic recovery low.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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