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Dead Man Walking: The President Obama won't be reelected thread. - Page 8

post #281 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

And the Republicans have done their best to keep the unemployment numbers high and the economic recovery low.

That is an outrageous, completely baseless charge.
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post #282 of 886
The fabricated debt crisis and abject refusal to compromise says otherwise. Holding the country hostage and ultimately getting our credit rating lowered says otherwise.

 

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-Sagan
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post #283 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The fabricated debt crisis and abject refusal to compromise says otherwise. Holding the country hostage and ultimately getting our credit rating lowered says otherwise.

Good points all!

Points to which I'm sure SDW will have Amygdala based counterpoints.

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post #284 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Reality is that Obama is in deep trouble any way you look at it. I'll repost some data that clearly demonstrates this:

1. Official unemployment is 8.5%. No President has been reelected with more than 7% unemployment other than Reagan. His was 7.2% but was falling rapidly.

2. Real unemployment is at least 11% because of workers that have stopped looking for work.

3. Obama presided over the first ever downgrade of U.S. credit and the accumulation of more debt in four years than all other Presidents combined.

4. The deficit is now 4 times higher than it was at its highest during the Bush administration.

5. Obama's poll numbers have improved slightly, but he still hovers around 45% at best. If he doesn't get to at least 49%, reelection becomes extremely unlikely.

6. Polling data indicates that 75% of the American public believes the nation is on the wrong track. Consumer confidence and optimism about the economy are very low.

7. Party identification is up for Republicans and down for Democrats.

8. Independents have left Obama in droves. They got him elected in 2008. His numbers are now down by as much as 20 points.

9. Obama's approval among blacks has dropped from 83 to 58 percent.

10. It's the economy, stupid.



I didn't post that, you did.

Good luckl with all of that!
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post #285 of 886
Thread Starter 
Dailycaller.com

Wow, that is quite the change and tone and bipartisanship we all expected.

Obama's getting sued.

Now we know from Herman Cain that no one sues unless you've really done something wrong.

What a week for Obama, soldiers urinating, being sued, unemployment claims jump, and don't forget needing another $1.2 trillion!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #286 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Dailycaller.com

Wow, that is quite the change and tone and bipartisanship we all expected.

Obama's getting sued.

Now we know from Herman Cain that no one sues unless you've really done something wrong.

What a week for Obama, soldiers urinating, being sued, unemployment claims jump, and don't forget needing another $1.2 trillion!

Oh look it's the Daily Caller! Yes many conservative rags are covering this!

Hey if you guys can try to trash MSNBC I can certainly return the favor.

All of this is really desperate of you and SDW trumpy. Can you really see guys like Romney who clearly don't have the best interests of the middleclass ( most of us out there ) winning the presidency? Ha! The GOP candidates are a joke and a little bit scary. I think you will certainly see more of this indicated as time goes on in this election.
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post #287 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh look it's the Daily Caller! Yes many conservative rags are covering this!

Hey if you guys can try to trash MSNBC I can certainly return the favor.

All of this is really desperate of you and SDW trumpy. Can you really see guys like Romney who clearly don't have the best interests of the middleclass ( most of us out there ) winning the presidency? Ha! The GOP candidates are a joke and a little bit scary. I think you will certainly see more of this indicated as time goes on in this election.

I don't care if you trash them. This isn't about some talking head pushing some meme. The reality is the man is being sued.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #288 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I don't care if you trash them. This isn't about some talking head pushing some meme. The reality is the man is being sued.

The reality here is you trying to find any little thing because your goal as the GOP's goal is to get Obama out of there at any cost. It doesn't matter what he does. He's a Democrat who took over after 8 years of the worst president ever and Republicans can't stand it. That's the reality.
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post #289 of 886
While the U.S. news media is focused on the SOPA blackouts, Obama rejected the Keystone pipeline today.

This means that Canada will now build a pipeline to the east coast and ship our oil to our new friend China.

Newt Gingrich responds.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #290 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

While the U.S. news media is focused on the SOPA blackouts, Obama rejected the Keystone pipeline today.

This means that Canada will now build a pipeline to the east coast and ship our oil to our new friend China.

Newt Gingrich responds.

Newt's critique is devastating and the reasoning behind is so sound and clear.

Canada is going to generate the oil from their oil sands, refine it and sell it. Anyone claiming this pipeline will stop big oil, stop use of cars, or any other environmental concerns is just full of crap.

Obama's decision....

1. Empowers dictators. It gives those with far off oil reserves more power over the world energy situation.
2. It weakens America. We have fewer jobs, more unstable supplies of energy and must now work harder to police the world rather than merely handling some business in our own backyard and with a close ally.
3. It takes our very close ally and basically shoves them into the arms of China.

One last point he didn't make, which I will make is that clearly it must be more risky and have a higher energy footprint to take that which needs refining and put it through a pipeline, fill a tanker with it, send it overseas for processing, put it back into a tanker and send it to wherever the gas or oil is being purchased. More steps and more miles means a higher likelihood of an environmental catastrophe and that means this is actually much, much worse for the environment.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #291 of 886
Frank, show me where it says that Canada will build a different pipeline ultimately sending oil to China. The linked article within the one you posted says that TransCanada is going to revise its plans to avoid the Sandhills in Nebraska and reapply.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...__lsa=e522e4b1

Quote:
TransCanada Corp. said it will reapply for the Keystone XL permit, after the U.S. State Department denied its current application.

“This outcome is one of the scenarios we anticipated. While we are disappointed, TransCanada remains fully committed to the construction of Keystone XL. Plans are already underway on a number of fronts to largely maintain the construction schedule of the project,” said Russ Girling, TransCanada’s president and chief executive officer. “We will re-apply for a Presidential Permit and expect a new application would be processed in an expedited manner to allow for an in-service date of late 2014.”

Why are you blatantly lying? Oh wait, you don't give two flying FUCKS about facts.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #292 of 886
If you actually lived here, you would know that has always been Plan B.

Your glorious leader was told that to his face by our Prime Minister himself, and the plans are already in the works.

China is pushing this fast because American interests want to stall the project until Obama is gone.

It's probably cheaper just to wait, but I think enough Canadians are tired of hitching our economic boat to the U.S.
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post #293 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Frank, show me where it says that Canada will build a different pipeline ultimately sending oil to China. The linked article within the one you posted says that TransCanada is going to revise its plans to avoid the Sandhills in Nebraska and reapply.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...__lsa=e522e4b1


Why are you blatantly lying? Oh wait, you don't give two flying FUCKS about facts.

The plans for the alternative pipeline are being conducted by the government. Prime Minister Harper is visiting China next month and China, who has no qualms about doing this business has already been laying the ground work to be a partner to Canada for years.

This article, which mentions neither Republicans, Democrats or Obama does mention many of these facts. Harper has been mentioning the alternative pipeline because Obama basically is shutting this down for political points. It has passed every state department review.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #294 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It's probably cheaper just to wait, but I think enough Canadians are tired of hitching our economic boat to the U.S.

They're probably also tired because it is clear the captain of that boat doesn't care to float or sail anywhere. He prefers to borrow billions and just write checks for votes.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #295 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

If you actually lived here, you would know that has always been Plan B.

Your glorious leader was told that to his face by our Prime Minister himself, and the plans are already in the works.

China is pushing this fast because American interests want to stall the project until Obama is gone.

It's probably cheaper just to wait, but I think enough Canadians are tired of hitching our economic boat to the U.S.

Why does that conflict with what was said in the first articles you linked? Can you reconcile the two?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #296 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Why does that conflict with what was said in the first articles you linked? Can you reconcile the two?

Isn't it sad how this has already been explained but the man who constantly seethes at people and calls them all manner of names while proclaiming they are ignorant can't read it because he has his blinders on.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #297 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The reality here is you trying to find any little thing because your goal as the GOP's goal is to get Obama out of there at any cost.

I wouldn't say any cost, but it is pretty damn important.

Quote:

It doesn't matter what he does.

At this point, that's actually true...but not for the reason you may think. I've seen enough to have made my mind up. He sucks. That being said, it did matter what his actions were in the past. Those actions are the basis for my dislike of him.

Quote:

He's a Democrat

Yes, jimmac...it's all just partisanship! It's just that he has a (D) behind his name! Really, not even you can believe this. Even his own party doesn't like him. It's about WHAT he's done and HOW he's done it.

Quote:

who took over after 8 years of the worst president ever

That's just stupid. Bush is not even close to "the worst President ever." If you disagree, let's see some quantifiable data to prove it. This is where your inability to be objective shows.


Quote:
and Republicans can't stand it.

I can't stand his polices and to an extent, the personality that comes through.

Quote:

That's the reality.

It's easy for you to believe that, because then you don't have to continue to defend this unmitigated failure of a President. He's a failure in nearly every area, from the economy, to fiscal policy, to national security, to his functions as Head of State. You know it. I know it. And fortunately, the majority of voters know it.
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post #298 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The reality here is you trying to find any little thing because your goal as the GOP's goal is to get Obama out of there at any cost.



How about just someone who spends less than an extra $5 trillion in debt per term. I guess in Republican terms that does sound like "any cost" but in Democratic terms it is called "just getting warmed up."

Quote:
It doesn't matter what he does

Quote:
.

It does matter what he does. There are plenty of people of all stripes who supported him who clearly do not now and did not in 2010. Actions have consequences, unless you are a Democrat in which case it is just racism or sexism or whatever else you care to scream about why utopia never arrived.

Quote:
He's a Democrat who took over after 8 years of the worst president ever and Republicans can't stand it. That's the reality.

So you are claiming that if all his plans had say.....oh.... I don't know..... worked.... that Republicans would just stand in opposition to world peace, clean air, full employment, shrinking deficits, you name it and would dig their heels in and hate the good times.

Of course they wouldn't. No one would do that. The reason they can make all these gains and attempts is because Obama and the Democratic party have broken every promise you can possibly break. They didn't bring the troops home. They simply moved them to another country and helped out certain countries with Libya. There wasn't a peace dividend. There is still budget financing for wars. There wasn't a stimulus that had loads of shovel ready projects that fixed our roads and bridges to the tune of almost a trillion dollars. They were just payoffs to Democratic blue states to keep them from going bankrupt and bad loans to fraudulent green energy scams. Obama didn't act in a bipartisan manner. He shut out the Republicans and shoved everything through with an agenda so extreme they were even losing Democratic votes on the bills.

Elections don't just have consequences. Actions have consequences and the actions Obama has taken have very profound consequences, the most likely being he won't be reelected.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #299 of 886
Thread Starter 
CNN, a source BR, tonton and Jimmac will hopefully read reports on the consequences of Keystone decision.

Quote:
The statement went on to say that Prime Minister Harper "...expressed his profound disappointment with the news. He indicated to President Obama that he hoped that this project would continue given the significant contribution it would make to jobs and economic growth both in Canada and the United States of America."

But crucially, the statement also said that the prime minister reiterated to President Obama that Canada will continue to work to diversify its energy exports.

In fact, in a sign of warming relations, Harper is scheduled to make a high-profile trip to China in February. Canada is proposing to build a pipeline of its own through western Canada that would make oil exports to China faster and cheaper.

In recent months, Harper has pushed more forcefully for the Northern Gateway pipeline project to get underway, calling it in the country's "national interest" as it works to develop markets other than the United States for its crude oil exports.

You need to diversity away from your biggest customer, closest ally and easiest means of dealing with the matter when they no longer care to do business with you.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #300 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I wouldn't say any cost, but it is pretty damn important.



At this point, that's actually true...but not for the reason you may think. I've seen enough to have made my mind up. He sucks. That being said, it did matter what his actions were in the past. Those actions are the basis for my dislike of him.



Yes, jimmac...it's all just partisanship! It's just that he has a (D) behind his name! Really, not even you can believe this. Even his own party doesn't like him. It's about WHAT he's done and HOW he's done it.



That's just stupid. Bush is not even close to "the worst President ever." If you disagree, let's see some quantifiable data to prove it. This is where your inability to be objective shows.




I can't stand his polices and to an extent, the personality that comes through.



It's easy for you to believe that, because then you don't have to continue to defend this unmitigated failure of a President. He's a failure in nearly every area, from the economy, to fiscal policy, to national security, to his functions as Head of State. You know it. I know it. And fortunately, the majority of voters know it.

Quote:
At this point, that's actually true

It's been that way from the start. You and trumpy know that. Not that it matters much as Obama will probably get a second term. The GOP candidates are such buffoons.
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post #301 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's been that way from the start. You and trumpy know that.

That's not true. Despite not voting for Obama for many reasons, I had high hopes for him. I had hoped that he governed the way he campaigned....competent, smart, collected, and pragmatic. He turned out to be as bad as the caricature that the GOP painted of him...if not worse.

Quote:

Not that it matters much as Obama will probably get a second term.

That's not what the numbers say, jimmac.

Quote:
The GOP candidates are such buffoons.

Buffoons? Is Romney a Buffoon? Gingrich? They are both very intelligent and successful men. Gingrich is quite brilliant, actually. I understand you disagree with them, but they most certainly not buffoons.
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post #302 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's not true. Despite not voting for Obama for many reasons, I had high hopes for him. I had hoped that he governed the way he campaigned....competent, smart, collected, and pragmatic. He turned out to be as bad as the caricature that the GOP painted of him...if not worse.



That's not what the numbers say, jimmac.



Buffoons? Is Romney a Buffoon? Gingrich? They are both very intelligent and successful men. Gingrich is quite brilliant, actually. I understand you disagree with them, but they most certainly not buffoons.

Quote:
Despite not voting for Obama for many reasons, I had high hopes for him

From the start you have never expressed that here. Just the opposite. If I'm wrong please link to where ok? Otherwise stop trying to tell me something I know isn't true.

Quote:
That's not what the numbers say, jimmac.


Which numbers are those SDW? I've seen plenty that say the opposite so if you really have something damning that's more recent let me know. Ok?

A little something for you to chew on : http://www.gallup.com/video/152036/S...GOP-Steer.aspx
And yeah Newt!
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post #303 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

ARE YOU BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE FOUR TRILLION AGO?

I am, and many other people are as well. The richest have come out ahead the most, unfortunately. As for those who are not better off, I'd wager that in general they are better off than they would have been had McCain been elected. Sure, that's speculation, but so is the asinine assertion that they would have been better off under McCain. Which brings me to my point. Your sig. It's meaningless. As in has no meaning. As in it's just as stupid as most of the other unsupported conclusions you draw. Carry on.
post #304 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That is an outrageous, completely baseless charge.

Bush got us into this mess when he was president regarding the economy and the wars which were costing us billions for nothing. That was a Republican for you.Obama is no saint either.
post #305 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Bush got us into this mess when he was president regarding the economy and the wars which were costing us billions for nothing. That was a Republican for you.Obama is no saint either.

The wars cost billions and not only did nothing, but made prospects for peace worse, peace being the number one factor that would make Americans safer. At least Obama didn't make things worse in that area, although he did nothing to make things better, either.
post #306 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

From the start you have never expressed that here. Just the opposite. If I'm wrong please link to where ok? Otherwise stop trying to tell me something I know isn't true.

Wrong. I have posted this multiple times. Go look it up.

Quote:

Which numbers are those SDW? I've seen plenty that say the opposite so if you really have something damning that's more recent let me know. Ok?

I've posted these numbers many times. Don't be obtuse.

Quote:

A little something for you to chew on : http://www.gallup.com/video/152036/S...GOP-Steer.aspx
And yeah Newt!

Yep, that's pretty much your M.O. Post one poll or favorable Obama story and claim that it's definitive proof of your argument. Meanwhile, every other indicator shows the opposite. Unemployment. Right/Wrong track. State by state polling. Consumer confidence. Foreclosures. Welfare numbers. The list goes on.
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post #307 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Bush got us into this mess when he was president regarding the economy and the wars which were costing us billions for nothing. That was a Republican for you.Obama is no saint either.

The total cost of the wars is less than our current annual deficit. Now tell me, what did he do to harm the economy again?
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post #308 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The total cost of the wars is less than our current annual deficit. Now tell me, what did he do to harm the economy again?

And the boat that you buy (when you don't need a boat) can be the purchase that leads you into bankruptcy, even if your decline into bankruptcy causes you to spend multiples more in reasonable investment to try and save yourself from it.
post #309 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Wrong. I have posted this multiple times. Go look it up.



I've posted these numbers many times. Don't be obtuse.



Yep, that's pretty much your M.O. Post one poll or favorable Obama story and claim that it's definitive proof of your argument. Meanwhile, every other indicator shows the opposite. Unemployment. Right/Wrong track. State by state polling. Consumer confidence. Foreclosures. Welfare numbers. The list goes on.





Quote:
Wrong. I have posted this multiple times. Go look it up.

No SDW. You made the claim it's your duty to provide proof of your claim. Why you never get that ( well I know why you're counting on me not wanting to do the work you should be doing ).


Quote:
I've posted these numbers many times. Don't be obtuse

I've posted numbers for you as well. Which you ignored.

And the other thing you're are ignoring is that all of these GOP candidates are only loved by 30% of the country. The hardcore other versions of you!

Also the voters aren't as stupid as you think. They know where this debacle ( and yet you want to let Dubbya off the hook ) all started. He had 8 years to do something about this and during that time we were saying " There's nobody at the wheel ". You totally ignored that and tried to tll us how good things were about the economy " surging " I believe you said. Until of course the bottom fell out from under everything. And you think they want to let another one of those guys ( that have no pity for the middleclass or poor ) at bat?

Obama's had half the time to deal with this mess ( and had the party of " No " to deal with in congress as well ). Only an idiot would vote for them under these circumstances.



Trumpy's new signature asks if you were better off? I ask when were you better off? Oh yeah! That was when a Democrat who balanced the budget and left us with a surplus was in charge. In the same amount of time Dubbya was in charge no less.
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post #310 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And the boat that you buy (when you don't need a boat) can be the purchase that leads you into bankruptcy, even if your decline into bankruptcy causes you to spend multiples more in reasonable investment to try and save yourself from it.

You're a real piece of work tonton. Obama runs 1.6 trillion deficits. The total cost of both wars was less than that. And yet someone they "bankrupted" us. Got it.
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post #311 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No SDW. You made the claim it's your duty to provide proof of your claim. Why you never get that ( well I know why you're counting on me not wanting to do the work you should be doing ).

Let me get this straight: You call me liar. Then you tell me if I want you to not think I'm a liar, I have to go provide examples of my own posts. Riiiiight. \

Quote:


I've posted numbers for you as well. Which you ignored.

Excellent. Let's see them again.

Quote:

And the other thing you're are ignoring is that all of these GOP candidates are only loved by 30% of the country. The hardcore other versions of you!

People with conservative views outnumber those with liberal views to the tune of about 10-15 percentage points. The rest are moderates.

Quote:

Also the voters aren't as stupid as you think.

I never claimed they were stupid.

Quote:
They know where this debacle ( and yet you want to let Dubbya off the hook ) all started. He had 8 years to do something about this and during that time we were saying " There's nobody at the wheel ". You totally ignored that and tried to tll us how good things were about the economy " surging " I believe you said. Until of course the bottom fell out from under everything. And you think they want to let another one of those guys ( that have no pity for the middleclass or poor ) at bat?

The economy was surging. Unemployment was low. Home values were up. Deficits were far smaller than today. Revenue to the government set records. Now, what precisely did Bush do to harm the economy? And no, "no one at the wheel" is not an answer. It's also demonstrably false.

Quote:

Obama's had half the time to deal with this mess ( and had the party of " No " to deal with in congress as well ). Only an idiot would vote for them under these circumstances.

Obama has made the situation far worse, from food stamps to unemployment...from deficits to debt, from GDP growth to regulation. No one blames Obama for the mess he inherited. It is his ACTIONS since taking office that are the problem.

As for the "party of no," that is nothing more than a talking point. Given your inability to think originally, I'm not surprised you used it. The reality is that Obama negotiated with them in bad faith. They passed bill after bill, and the Democrats (the actual party of no) killed them in the Senate. Tell me jimmac, was the GOP the "party of no" on the keystone pipeline? Hmmm?

Quote:

Trumpy's new signature asks if you were better off? I ask when were you better off? Oh yeah! That was when a Democrat who balanced the budget and left us with a surplus was in charge. In the same amount of time Dubbya was in charge no less.

Yes, jimmac...let's ignore that fact that Clinton wasn't the one who actually did those things. The GOP did those things, and Clinton got a lot of the credit, just as he did for the economy. Yet just as you can't tell me what Bush did wrong, you can't tell me what Clinton did right on the economy. That's because you don't know. You just put on your blue jersey and yell "go team!"
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #312 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You're a real piece of work tonton. Obama runs 1.6 trillion deficits. The total cost of both wars was less than that. And yet someone they "bankrupted" us. Got it.

Bush kept much of the cost of both wars off the books. You have been alerted of this incontrovertible fact NUMEROUS times. You still ignore it. This makes you the true "real piece of work."

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN SEPARATE SET OF FACTS, DIVORCED COMPLETELY FROM REALITY.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #313 of 886
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Bush kept much of the cost of both wars off the books. You have been alerted of this incontrovertible fact NUMEROUS times. You still ignore it. This makes you the true "real piece of work."

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN SEPARATE SET OF FACTS, DIVORCED COMPLETELY FROM REALITY.

Off budget and off the books are not the same thing. The cost of them and the money borrowed for it is not hidden and idd add to the national debt. There is no different, hidden national debt that also includes those wars.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #314 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Bush kept much of the cost of both wars off the books. You have been alerted of this incontrovertible fact NUMEROUS times. You still ignore it. This makes you the true "real piece of work."

Could you enlighten us as to where exactly these "off-the-books" spending has been charged?

Who is paying for the war(s), if not Congress?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #315 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Let me get this straight: You call me liar. Then you tell me if I want you to not think I'm a liar, I have to go provide examples of my own posts. Riiiiight. \



Excellent. Let's see them again.



People with conservative views outnumber those with liberal views to the tune of about 10-15 percentage points. The rest are moderates.



I never claimed they were stupid.



The economy was surging. Unemployment was low. Home values were up. Deficits were far smaller than today. Revenue to the government set records. Now, what precisely did Bush do to harm the economy? And no, "no one at the wheel" is not an answer. It's also demonstrably false.



Obama has made the situation far worse, from food stamps to unemployment...from deficits to debt, from GDP growth to regulation. No one blames Obama for the mess he inherited. It is his ACTIONS since taking office that are the problem.

As for the "party of no," that is nothing more than a talking point. Given your inability to think originally, I'm not surprised you used it. The reality is that Obama negotiated with them in bad faith. They passed bill after bill, and the Democrats (the actual party of no) killed them in the Senate. Tell me jimmac, was the GOP the "party of no" on the keystone pipeline? Hmmm?



Yes, jimmac...let's ignore that fact that Clinton wasn't the one who actually did those things. The GOP did those things, and Clinton got a lot of the credit, just as he did for the economy. Yet just as you can't tell me what Bush did wrong, you can't tell me what Clinton did right on the economy. That's because you don't know. You just put on your blue jersey and yell "go team!"

Quote:
Let me get this straight: You call me liar

I will call you ridiculous or hypocritical.

Quote:
let's ignore that fact that Clinton wasn't the one who actually did those things.

Here's the lying part.

Quote:
The reality is that Obama negotiated with them in bad faith. They passed bill after bill,




Quote:
That's because you don't know.

Who was in charge? If Obama is to blaim for all of this mess why is it different for Bush?

Go Newt!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #316 of 886
Emergency spending bills which didn't go into the official budgets--effectively making the deficits during Bush's years not look as bad. President Obama ended that practice and has paid a political price for it--idiot wingers have looked at the spike in spending (that now includes the actual war operations costs that Bush hid) and cry foul. Furthermore, wingers don't ever take into account the drop in revenues caused by the Bush tax cuts and what President Obama's budgets actually would have looked like had the cuts actually been allowed to sunset (AS THEY WERE FUCKING DESIGNED TO, AS PASSED BY CONGRESS AND SIGNED BY BUSH).

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #317 of 886
By "Emergency Spending Bills" I assume you are conceding that these were under legislation approved by Congress and never actually hidden from public scrutiny?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #318 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

By "Emergency Spending Bills" I assume you are conceding that these were under legislation approved by Congress and never actually hidden from public scrutiny?

http://www.concordcoalition.org/issu...and-increases-


Quote:
Emergency Designations Have Been Used as Budget Gimmicks

In other cases, supplemental appropriations increased because emergency designations have been abused. The practice of exempting emergency spending from budget allocations has created a tempting budget gimmick, which has not been lost on policymakers from either party.

For example, until the President’s FY 2010 budget request, much of the funding for ongoing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan was funded entirely through emergency appropriations. Funding the war using emergency spending was a gimmick that had the effect of removing billions of dollars of likely military expenditures from the spending totals in the President’s budget.

And

Quote:
Improvements in the President’s Budget and the Senate Budget Resolution

While recent trends in emergency spending have not been encouraging, it is worth noting that the budgets President Obama has proposed over the last two years have included requests that more accurately reflect anticipated emergency spending. The budgets for FY 2010 and FY 2011 included funding for military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan in the base defense request. They also included estimates for emergency spending that could be needed due to natural disasters. While these steps will not eliminate the need for supplemental spending for these purposes, the practice of budgeting for emergency spending rather than pretending it doesn’t exist is a fiscally responsible approach that should be continued.

It is also encouraging that the Senate Budget Committee recently reported a budget resolution that includes a committee amendment strengthening the emergency designation point of order. Sec. 303 of the resolution included a new requirement that an emergency designation be accompanied by a document with signatures of 16 senators affirming that the emergency designation meets the proper criteria (necessary, sudden, urgent, unforeseen, and not permanent). While more comprehensive reforms will still be needed to prevent the abuse of emergency spending, this requirement is a positive development that could add transparency and accountability. Making such additional improvements could also help restore public trust in government and the appropriations process.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #319 of 886
Now, Frank, you are being misleading here. They were hidden from the budget deficit totals.

Thanks Jimmac, you beat me to it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #320 of 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Now, Frank, you are being misleading here. They were hidden from the budget deficit totals.

Thanks Jimmac, you beat me to it.

You're welcome!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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