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Pray for rain; heat wave continues and wildfires ravage the state - Page 2

post #41 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Why?... What has anyone ever seen that would lead them to believe there is anyone/thing to pray TO. What has lead anyone to believe that prayer does a damn thing?... (The closest thing prayer is to being "real" is as a form of meditation/introspection/focus... there is no evidence to suggest that any divinity is listening.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Prayer is an effective placebo. It does lower stress levels and offers people motivation and patience.

^This. If the Divine does not exist, prayer is at minimum a calming thing, a form of meditation, de-stressing, whatever you want to call it. Given our control over nature and our health only really started 200 years ago, we've got at least 50,000 years of having to believe in something greater than our tribe and our campfire. (Ironically, given our new *lack* of control over nature and the financial system, uncertainty creeps back in).

I do feel rigid, structured Monotheism has in some way damaged the fundamental essence of prayer and faith by distorting it into a forced, guilt-driven, Angry-Father-As-God thing. It is up to the individual to reclaim faith and prayer in their own way and discard anything forced upon them. What sort of supreme God would want you to be a bound slave? What's the point in believing that?

If a loving, forgiving Divine does exist, it's bonus points... It's like that moment when you're playing a vertical scrolling space shoot-em-up, you're about to bite it, when suddenly the bonus token appears, you grab it, it's a super-bomb thing, and you wipe out your enemies with a nice ring of fire. (Of course, don't equate this video game "violent" analogy to religious brimstone-and-fire... I'm talking about the "bonus" aspect of Divine existence).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

I. Reality, the adverse affects are caused more by religion than by god... Except... How do you separate the two?... One can't exist without the other.

Indeed. Adverse effects are caused primarily by religion, not faith itself. You can separate the two. New Age, Wicca ("Witchcraft") and other belief systems are examples whereby it promotes faith without binding someone to a specific religion.

This is the crux of our modern day conundrum. On one hand, you have an innate desire to believe in "something". On the other hand, you have the major religions binding you to practices and beliefs that no longer fit with the modern world. Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Hinduism and Confucianism are examples of major religions that have some pretty darn anachronistic things in them. For example, Muslims are supposed to pray five times a day, and refrain from gambling, alcohol and pork. Catholics are still pounded (pun unintended) by the notion that contraception and "lust" during sex is wrong. Confucianists believe in "Kitchen" and "Monkey" Gods. A lot of Hindus believe cows are sacred. All this literally makes no sense to anyone of reasonable education. The key is to listen to an inner voice, not these rules devised millennia ago for forms of living common to society of that era.
post #42 of 123
Thread Starter 
Way back in April, Rick Perry actually made an official state proclamation asking the people of Texas to pray for rain. Seriously. It's on the fucking government website.

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/proclamation/16038/

Quote:
TO ALL TO WHOM THESE PRESENTS SHALL COME:

WHEREAS, the state of Texas is in the midst of an exceptional drought, with some parts of the state receiving no significant rainfall for almost three months, matching rainfall deficit records dating back to the 1930s; and

WHEREAS, a combination of higher than normal temperatures, low precipitation and low relative humidity has caused an extreme fire danger over most of the State, sparking more than 8,000 wildfires which have cost several lives, engulfed more than 1.8 million acres of land and destroyed almost 400 homes, causing me to issue an ongoing disaster declaration since December of last year; and

WHEREAS, these dire conditions have caused agricultural crops to fail, lake and reservoir levels to fall and cattle and livestock to struggle under intense stress, imposing a tremendous financial and emotional toll on our land and our people; and

WHEREAS, throughout our history, both as a state and as individuals, Texans have been strengthened, assured and lifted up through prayer; it seems right and fitting that the people of Texas should join together in prayer to humbly seek an end to this devastating drought and these dangerous wildfires;

NOW, THEREFORE, I, RICK PERRY, Governor of Texas, under the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Statutes of the State of Texas, do hereby proclaim the three-day period from Friday, April 22, 2011, to Sunday, April 24, 2011, as Days of Prayer for Rain in the State of Texas. I urge Texans of all faiths and traditions to offer prayers on those days for the healing of our land, the rebuilding of our communities and the restoration of our normal way of life.

IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto signed my name and have officially caused the Seal of State to be affixed at my Office in the City of Austin, Texas, this the 21st day of April, 2011.

RICK PERRY
Governor of Texas

This man is 100% batshit insane. Let's not actually DO ANYTHING USEFUL. Let's not PREPARE for wildfires. Let's just talk to our imaginary friend for a while and hope everything turns out OK. We absolutely cannot leave any part of this nation in the hands of madmen who believe this horseshit.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #43 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Way back in April, Rick Perry actually made an official state proclamation asking the people of Texas to pray for rain. Seriously. It's on the fucking government website.

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/proclamation/16038/



This man is 100% batshit insane. Let's not actually DO ANYTHING USEFUL. Let's not PREPARE for wildfires. Let's just talk to our imaginary friend for a while and hope everything turns out OK. We absolutely cannot leave any part of this nation in the hands of madmen who believe this horseshit.

Are you claiming that not a single dollar was spent in state or national parks to manage their resources?

Wildfires are a part of nature. Most of the recent big ones are reversing our ignorance related to that fact and are helping deal with the massive overgrowth that has occurred as mankind has put out the fires for nearly a century as part of lack of understanding related to that fact.

Wildfires can and SHOULD happen. In California we now spend lots of money cutting back growth but wildfires are still practically their own season here.

You need to stop making nonsense up. Given a choice between someone who prays for a result and gets nothing and someone who spends $5 trillion over 3 years and has nothing to show for it, I'll take the guy praying to the imaginary guy in the sky since that policy is a lot easier on the pocketbooks and savings accounts of myself, my children and my future grandchildren.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #44 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

...and the biblical god was made up by a group of people who saw it as an effective political tool to control the unwashed masses. (And to garner wealth and power unto themselves.)

Prove that.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #45 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Prove that.

I dont have to... No evidence is required... It's just obvious to anyone wha has experienced it.

(yes... For those of you too slow to understand, that is EXACTLY the stance taken by the religious "believers" when their gods are called into question.)

Now... There are history books that you can read to garner this information... But in short, the Bible was assembled as a "book" several hundred years after Christ supposedly walked this earth... By an organization that has since evolved into the Vatican. In that time it has been adapted by many other organizations as well.
That organization was not a "church", it was a political force that used the Bible (which non-priests were not allowed to read or even possess) as a method of cowing the people or bending them to their will... Conveniently under the threat of eternal damnation. The effectiveness of this control was demonstrated to monarchs who were offered "divine sanction" of their rule if they in turn validated the "church" ...

You wouldn't believe anything told to you that brings your "faith" into question anyway (especially and rightfully not something you read on an internet forum like this.) Do take what you've been told and then go do a little research of your own... Read something that's NOT the bible and find out for yourself how it came to be.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #46 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

I dont have to... No evidence is required... It's just obvious to anyone wha has experienced it.

(yes... For those of you too slow to understand, that is EXACTLY the stance taken by the religious "believers" when their gods are called into question.)

Now... There are history books that you can read to garner this information... But in short, the Bible was assembled as a "book" several hundred years after Christ supposedly walked this earth... By an organization that has since evolved into the Vatican. In that time it has been adapted by many other organizations as well.
That organization was not a "church", it was a political force that used the Bible (which non-priests were not allowed to read or even possess) as a method of cowing the people or bending them to their will... Conveniently under the threat of eternal damnation. The effectiveness of this control was demonstrated to monarchs who were offered "divine sanction" of their rule if they in turn validated the "church" ...

You wouldn't believe anything told to you that brings your "faith" into question anyway (especially and rightfully not something you read on an internet forum like this.) Do take what you've been told and then go do a little research of your own... Read something that's NOT the bible and find out for yourself how it came to be.

Massive history fail. Only an atheist would assert that the "biblical god" was made up hundreds of years after Christ.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #47 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Are you claiming that not a single dollar was spent in state or national parks to manage their resources?

Wildfires are a part of nature. Most of the recent big ones are reversing our ignorance related to that fact and are helping deal with the massive overgrowth that has occurred as mankind has put out the fires for nearly a century as part of lack of understanding related to that fact.

Wildfires can and SHOULD happen. In California we now spend lots of money cutting back growth but wildfires are still practically their own season here.

You need to stop making nonsense up. Given a choice between someone who prays for a result and gets nothing and someone who spends $5 trillion over 3 years and has nothing to show for it, I'll take the guy praying to the imaginary guy in the sky since that policy is a lot easier on the pocketbooks and savings accounts of myself, my children and my future grandchildren.

He slashed the budgets of volunteer fire departments, which specialize in fighting wildfires, by 75%. This was linked to earlier.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #48 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He slashed the budgets volunteer fire departments, which specialize in fighting wildfires, by 75%. This was linked to earlier.

Yes, he did do that. Many administrations around the US have made decisions regarding budgets that do not make sense. Cutting everything from fire departments, to police to schools to you name it. This is not a isolated issue, and it is one that I believe is valid to hold the person responsible for the decisions they made.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #49 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Yes, he did do that. Many administrations around the US have made decisions regarding budgets that do not make sense. Cutting everything from fire departments, to police to schools to you name it. This is not a isolated issue, and it is one that I believe is valid to hold the person responsible for the decisions they made.

Indeed. And it is extra insulting that he then calls for people to pray for rain because that's all that's left after Perry pretty much left the state wide open to disaster.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #50 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Indeed. And it is extra insulting that he then calls for people to pray for rain because that's all that's left after Perry pretty much left the state wide open to disaster.

Maybe that's his big plan for fixing the economy.
post #51 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He slashed the budgets of volunteer fire departments, which specialize in fighting wildfires, by 75%. This was linked to earlier.

That isn't what I asked about but thanks for playing.

Quote:
Let's not actually DO ANYTHING USEFUL. Let's not PREPARE for wildfires.

You don't prepare for wildfires by hiring firefighters. You prepare for them by letting them happen naturally or cutting down overgrowth if you've stopped them from happening naturally for the last 100 years. You claimed he did not do anything useful and did not prepare for wildfires. Since he has in fact done useful items and committed monies towards them, your point is moot. Secondly, even in instances where massive sums have been spent natural disasters still occur. It's almost like they are above human efforts or something crazy like that.

I'm saying this because in California, the very antithesis of Texas, we have had two fires that have burned 1.5 million acres since 2008 even with our decades of deficit spending. The Texas fire mentioned here was 34,000 acres in comparison.

How do you explain such a disparity? Why not indict the Democratically controlled state government here in California? Perhaps your attempts at correlation are terrible.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #52 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Massive history fail. Only an atheist would assert that the "biblical god" was made up hundreds of years after Christ.

I never claimed that was when god was made up. I stated that was when the bible, as we know it, was assembled from various other (older) writings.

My history was correct... Your criticism "fail"ed.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #53 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

That isn't what I asked about

But it was relevant. Inconvenient for you, but relevant nonetheless.

Quote:
but thanks for playing.

And there's the condescension.



Quote:
You don't prepare for wildfires by hiring firefighters.

Actually, you do. That is part of it. You go on to describe other facets of fighting wildfires. But everything isn't about prevention. It's also about preparing for those scenarios in which all the prevention you tried didn't work and still there blaze fires out of control. Then you need the firefighters. Then you need the firefighters that Perry saw fit to defund.

Quote:
I'm saying this because in California, the very antithesis of Texas, we have had two fires that have burned 1.5 million acres since 2008 even with our decades of deficit spending. The Texas fire mentioned here was 34,000 acres in comparison.

Imagine if we had 75% fewer firefighters at our disposal. Also, citation needed.

Quote:
Why not indict the Democratically controlled state government here in California?

Did California cut programs intended to fight fires months before the fires raged?

Quote:
Perhaps your attempts at correlation are terrible.

More condescension. You know, I've been called out lately for being allegedly bitter in my recent postings. But seriously, you take the fucking cake. It's almost impossible to find a single post of yours that isn't dripping with vitriol.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #54 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Indeed. And it is extra insulting that he then calls for people to pray for rain because that's all that's left after Perry pretty much left the state wide open to disaster.

I think that you need to show that this is ALL he is doing. It is certainly one of the things he is doing.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #55 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I think that you need to show that this is ALL he is doing. It is certainly one of the things he is doing.

I think a government proclamation requesting prayers is unconstitutional and has no place in the United States.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #56 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I think a government proclamation requesting prayers is unconstitutional and has no place in the United States.

I think a government mandate stating that they must pray and to which god in which religion might possibly fail the constitutional test. Otherwise I think you are overreaching.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #57 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I think a government mandate stating that they must pray and to which god in which religion might possibly fail the constitutional test. Otherwise I think you are overreaching.

Asking for prayer to a deity in an official government capacity is what is overreaching. If Perry wants to do so on his own, fine. I'd prefer that he didn't because I would prefer that our elected leaders didn't cling to unreality, but what he does on his own time is his concern. Publish it on a government website as an official proclamation? That's unconscionable.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #58 of 123
George Washington's 1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation:

Quote:
Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me to "recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d day of October, A.D. 1789.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #59 of 123
Thread Starter 
George Washington was wrong in making that proclamation. Thankfully the United States unanimously proclaimed that we were not in any sense a Christian nation a few short years later.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #60 of 123
I don't see anything in Washington's proclamation about Christianity.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #61 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

But it was relevant. Inconvenient for you, but relevant nonetheless.

It isn't relevant. You've made the claim but not backed it. Can you prove the fire and the size of it is correlated to the number of hired firefighters or fund applied? You can't. It is your contention but it is an unprovent point. There was an amount of money. There was a large fire. The relationship between the two and the burden of proving that relationship is yours. Prove the fire would have been smaller if more funds had been available. Prove other states spent more and had proportionally smaller fires. Good luck.

Quote:
And there's the condescension.

Logical fallacies shouldn't be treated with much, especially when the person making them claims some imagined higher intellectual realm from where he sends down his daily trash talk.

Quote:
Actually, you do. That is part of it. You go on to describe other facets of fighting wildfires. But everything isn't about prevention. It's also about preparing for those scenarios in which all the prevention you tried didn't work and still there blaze fires out of control. Then you need the firefighters. Then you need the firefighters that Perry saw fit to defund.

Yet the funding of firefighters isn't a variable that stands in isolation. It must be considered in context. If Texas (as California must also do) is not being reimbursed for the cost of illegal immigration, the the cuts should not count against Perry for it is the federal government demanding services be rendering without providing the funds. Also clearly the thread premise is a false dilemma, attempting to conflate substitution of prayer for funds.

Quote:
Imagine if we had 75% fewer firefighters at our disposal. Also, citation needed.

Imagine if we had the money for them because we weren't providing 99 weeks worth of unemployment insurance due to bad federal economic policy and Democratic crony capitalism. I'll gladly provide my citation (though it isn't at all hard to find) after you provide your citation for proof that size of fire department budget correlates to size of wildfire.

Quote:
Did California cut programs intended to fight fires months before the fires raged?

If they didn't and the wildfires were still massive and record setting, then it would disprove your entire premise wouldn't it? Perhaps you should cite California record of funding firefighters in an attempt to corroborate your claims.

Quote:
More condescension. You know, I've been called out lately for being allegedly bitter in my recent postings. But seriously, you take the fucking cake. It's almost impossible to find a single post of yours that isn't dripping with vitriol.

Love you too.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #62 of 123
Thread Starter 
So you are essentially saying that if I make claims that you assert aren't backed, you can respond with unsupported claims without having to endure any scrutiny. This is why you still remain worthless to talk to. No more hitting that view post button. You're on my ignore list for a reason. I'm glad I was reminded of it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #63 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't see anything in Washington's proclamation about Christianity.

It's clearly implied. George Washington, unlike other founding fathers, was a Christian. Everyone has his or her faults. That's one of his.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #64 of 123
There are numerous references to God, but no mention of any specific religion, and certainly no mention of Jesus Christ.

Just like the Declaration of Independence references God without mentioning any specific religion.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #65 of 123
Thread Starter 
He's referencing a single god. Not one of many. Who, to him, was this single god? The Christian god. It's pretty fucking clear who he meant. Context. Use it.

Regardless, he was wrong either way. Government should not be in the business of invoking deities.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #66 of 123
The founding fathers knew of, acknowledged, and were tolerant of other faiths.

Some of those faiths were even monotheistic like Christianity.

Quote:
George Washington suggested a way for Muslims to "obtain proper relief" from a proposed Virginia bill, laying taxes to support Christian worship. On another occasion, the first president declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen" (see page 96).

Apparently what Washington actually said in that proclamation is not as relevant as what you think his implication or intent was.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #67 of 123
BR would probably have a point if cutting volunteer firefighters was some kind of bullet point in the Religious Right's dastardly attempt to Talibanize America and forcibly convert local heathens to Christianity.

It's a wonder we all haven't connected the dots on how this part of the secret plan works.

Please enlighten us BR. And please, answer before the Rapture happens.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #68 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

BR would probably have a point if cutting volunteer firefighters was some kind of bullet point in the Religious Right's dastardly attempt to Talibanize America and forcibly convert local heathens to Christianity.

It's a wonder we all haven't connected the dots on how this part of the secret plan works.

Please enlighten us BR. And please, answer before the Rapture happens.

sorry, that is just too funny.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #69 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So you are essentially saying that if I make claims that you assert aren't backed, you can respond with unsupported claims without having to endure any scrutiny. This is why you still remain worthless to talk to. No more hitting that view post button. You're on my ignore list for a reason. I'm glad I was reminded of it.

Translation: Someone with some argumentative skills and logic came in and blew up my terrible attempt at reasoning and now I'm going to go cry.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #70 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

BR would probably have a point if cutting volunteer firefighters was some kind of bullet point in the Religious Right's dastardly attempt to Talibanize America and forcibly convert local heathens to Christianity.

It's a wonder we all haven't connected the dots on how this part of the secret plan works.

Please enlighten us BR. And please, answer before the Rapture happens.

It's a bullet point in the starve the beast part of the right wing platform. They don't believe government works and, when in power, do their best to prove this assertion.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #71 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's a bullet point in the starve the beast part of the right wing platform. They don't believe government works and, when in power, do their best to prove this assertion.

And this has what to do with a Christian prayer rally?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #72 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

And this has what to do with a Christian prayer rally?

Do you need me to connect every single dot for you?



Hint: It's a guy with a sword.

Back to the topic, Perry can be MORE THAN ONE THING. He is a right wing shill for his mega-rich backers. He is a Dominionist Christian. The two are rather intertwined these days.

He panders to his base on two fronts--killing off government and showing how religious he is.

Also, Matthew 6:5-6. Go pray behind your closed doors and leave the rest of the thinking world alone.

Quote:
“Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you”

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #73 of 123
I love how all the lefties who love to complain about America's persecution of communists and muslims are currently engaged in this nonsense campaign to brand "Dominionist Christianity" as the new scary threat to North American liberty.

Even accounting for the fact that the left is often hypocritical and economical with the truth, this one takes the cake.

Dominionism, if it can truly be called a thing, is so tiny and foreign to mainstream Christianity that it would have to become 100X its size to even get properly noticed. The gist of this perceived threat is that Dominionism espouses the idea that Christians having political power is a good thing.

This notion, of course, has long been recognized by other faiths and cultures. It's why Muslims and gays often run for school trustee positions, city councils and - gasp- even Congress and Parliament.

But the left needs a bogeyman to scare people into voting its way and funding its nonsense causes.
And if targeting a niche religious sub-minority will get that job done, well it has to be done.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #74 of 123
And just to be clear, The Response prayer event was produced by the American Family Association, which is not a Dominionist group.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #75 of 123
Thread Starter 
Look at the lineup of speakers.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #76 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Look at the lineup of speakers.

Why would it matter to you if there are people with so-called 'Dominionist' views at a Christian prayer event?

I believe that all things being equal, having people working from a Christian worldview to enshrine public policy and law would be better than having people who are not. Am I a scary Dominionist?

Why do you even care? You seem to believe in the power of this event more than most Christians.

This wasn't funded by the Government of Texas, was it?

I still don't even understand how you can link this to the firefighter cuts with a straight face.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #77 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I believe that all things being equal, having people working from a Christian worldview to enshrine public policy and law would be better than having people who are not. Am I a scary Dominionist?

Yes. This is scary. When being a Christian these days involves denying science and reality (well, it's always done the latter)...yeah, it's fucking scary. Go away. Leave government alone.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #78 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Yes. This is scary. When being a Christian these days involves denying science and reality (well, it's always done the latter)...yeah, it's fucking scary. Go away. Leave government alone.

You know BR, you have to address what he actually said, not your charicature of it.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #79 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You know BR, you have to address what he actually said, not your charicature of it.

Look at Republicans these days. Look at what kind of Christianity they are bringing to government. They deny the science of evolution. They deny the science of climate change. Many believe the earth is literally 6,000 years old. I WISH IT WERE A CARICATURE. Believe me, I really do. It's not.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #80 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Go away. Leave government alone.

Good luck with that. Your fellow atheist Voltaire believed that Christianity would be extinct within three decades. It's been more than two centuries since, and there are now more than two billion Christians in the world. Actually the percentage is higher than when he was alive.

We're not going anywhere. Get used to that idea.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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