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Pray for rain; heat wave continues and wildfires ravage the state - Page 3

post #81 of 123
9/12/11 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
It will. Eventually. I hope in my lifetime--but I won't hold my breath. Your Sumerian war god will join the ranks of the other forgotten mythical constructs. Ares. Tyr. Anhur. Nergal. Yahweh.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #82 of 123
9/12/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Look at Republicans these days. Look at what kind of Christianity they are bringing to government. They deny the science of evolution. They deny the science of climate change. Many believe the earth is literally 6,000 years old. I WISH IT WERE A CARICATURE. Believe me, I really do. It's not.

He asked about himself specifically and about a Christian worldview, not about the Republican party. Try to separate the two, they are not one and the same.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #83 of 123
9/12/11 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
They are the most vocal Christians running for office. The two have been pretty much intertwined in the United States.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #84 of 123
9/12/11 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

They are the most vocal Christians running for office. The two have been pretty much intertwined in the United States.

For you maybe. I can see the difference.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #85 of 123
9/12/11 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
The moderate Christians staying quiet and not forcefully decrying the anti-evolution, anti-science crowd only give those nutters more power. The moderate Christians are part of the problem because they refuse to be part of the solution.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #86 of 123
9/12/11 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The moderate Christians staying quiet and not forcefully decrying the anti-evolution, anti-science crowd only give those nutters more power. The moderate Christians are part of the problem because they refuse to be part of the solution.

It is obvious that you have made up your mind already. You are creating a situation that may or may not exist and have already created a group of people that are responsible based on NO information about that group at all.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #87 of 123
9/12/11 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
You are making several assumptions about what information I have here. You already have YOUR mind made up.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #88 of 123
9/12/11 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Way back in April, Rick Perry actually made an official state proclamation asking the people of Texas to pray for rain. Seriously. It's on the fucking government website.

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/proclamation/16038/

This man is 100% batshit insane. Let's not actually DO ANYTHING USEFUL. Let's not PREPARE for wildfires. Let's just talk to our imaginary friend for a while and hope everything turns out OK. We absolutely cannot leave any part of this nation in the hands of madmen who believe this horseshit.

Wow. And I thought his global warming response was incoherent.

It's one thing to say to the people at the end of a speech something like, "God bless, let's pray for rain". It's another to make a proclamation for THREE DAYS of "official prayer". That's pushing it.
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post #89 of 123
9/12/11 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Look at Republicans these days. Look at what kind of Christianity they are bringing to government. They deny the science of evolution. They deny the science of climate change. Many believe the earth is literally 6,000 years old. I WISH IT WERE A CARICATURE. Believe me, I really do. It's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Good luck with that. Your fellow atheist Voltaire believed that Christianity would be extinct within three decades. It's been more than two centuries since, and there are now more than two billion Christians in the world. Actually the percentage is higher than when he was alive.

We're not going anywhere. Get used to that idea.

As a religion-free Theist my concern is the increasing fundamentalism of the major religions in certain parts of the world.

The Rick Perry issue BR is raising is not singularly that he proclaimed days of prayer but Rick Perry's concept of science as evidenced by the primaries debate is inherently poor.

For my side of things I'm not asking for Christianity to disappear, if anything Islam in the Middle East and South East Asia is more of a concern to me. But in the context of this thread it is interesting when BR says "Look at the kind of Christianity they are bringing to government".
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post #90 of 123
9/12/11 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

As a religion-free Theist my concern is the increasing fundamentalism of the major religions in certain parts of the world.

The Rick Perry issue BR is raising is not singularly that he proclaimed days of prayer but Rick Perry's concept of science as evidenced by the primaries debate is inherently poor.

For my side of things I'm not asking for Christianity to disappear, if anything Islam in the Middle East and South East Asia is more of a concern to me. But in the context of this thread it is interesting when BR says "Look at the kind of Christianity they are bringing to government".

So is anyone still wondering what the grand plan for the economy is?

Hint: "Put your hands together for Rick Perry's brilliant policy" isn't referring to applause.
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post #91 of 123
9/12/11 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The moderate Christians staying quiet and not forcefully decrying the anti-evolution, anti-science crowd only give those nutters more power. The moderate Christians are part of the problem because they refuse to be part of the solution.

Are there any of these moderate Christian groups saying anything? Who represents them? Curious. There must be out there, are they just being drowned out or ignored by the media?
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post #92 of 123
9/12/11 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Wow. And I thought his global warming response was incoherent.

It's one thing to say to the people at the end of a speech something like, "God bless, let's pray for rain". It's another to make a proclamation for THREE DAYS of "official prayer". That's pushing it.

There's no doubt that Perry is running hard to capture religious votes. He likely sees it as his way to harden his base to attack while weakening Bachmann specifically.

That said, there's nothing inherently wrong about such a proclamation as long as he's not demanding everyone in his state forcibly pray to his particular god. Prayer is almost universally accepted in western society (everybody was saying 'Japan is in our prayers' right after the earthquake.) Those who are most likely to take the proclamation seriously (devout Christians, Jews and Muslims) are used to much longer prayer calls than three days.

And if you're an atheist who doesn't believe in prayer at all, this proclamation is only costing taxpayers the piece of paper it's printed on.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #93 of 123
9/12/11 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are making several assumptions about what information I have here. You already have YOUR mind made up.

I don't claim otherwise in this case. You are the one pretending to be unbiased. In regards to the argument you are making, I have indeed made up my mind. Your claims are petty, your grasp of what you are talking about gets fainter with every scripture you quote out of context. Your hatred of Christians, and subsequent conflation of them with a specific group further unmasks your arguments. Stop pretending that you have not made up your mind and you are looking for anything but your own way.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #94 of 123
9/12/11 at 11:01pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Present evidence that your delusions are real and I will stop calling them delusions.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #95 of 123
9/13/11 at 12:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Present evidence that your delusions are real and I will stop calling them delusions.

You call for something that you cannot accept evidence for unless you can force it to look like you want it to. I cannot force God to perform for you like a dancing monkey BR. Sorry. You will have to take it up with him yourself.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #96 of 123
9/13/11 at 1:46am
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You call for something that you cannot accept evidence for unless you can force it to look like you want it to. I cannot force God to perform for you like a dancing monkey BR. Sorry. You will have to take it up with him yourself.

What is your evidence that god exists? Is it reproducible? Can it not be more likely explained through confirmation bias or attribution theory?

Present the kind of evidence that you would accept if we were having a discussion about economics or football or engineering or automobile manufacturing. Stop conveniently redefining the term 'evidence' because there doesn't exist any for your iron age Sumerian war god.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #97 of 123
9/13/11 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What is your evidence that god exists? Is it reproducible? Can it not be more likely explained through confirmation bias or attribution theory?

Present the kind of evidence that you would accept if we were having a discussion about economics or football or engineering or automobile manufacturing. Stop conveniently redefining the term 'evidence' because there doesn't exist any for your iron age Sumerian war god.

You call for something that you cannot accept evidence for unless you can force it to look like you want it to. I cannot force God to perform for you like a dancing monkey BR. Sorry. You will have to take it up with him yourself.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #98 of 123
9/13/11 at 10:01am
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You call for something that you cannot accept evidence for unless you can force it to look like you want it to. I cannot force God to perform for you like a dancing monkey BR. Sorry. You will have to take it up with him yourself.

Stop redefining evidence. Either there is evidence or there isn't. What's your evidence?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #99 of 123
9/13/11 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

... What's your evidence?

He has none. If he did, he'd share it with you.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #100 of 123
9/13/11 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What is your evidence that god exists?


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post #101 of 123
9/13/11 at 10:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

He has none. If he did, he'd share it with you.

Been shared. Not sharing again.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #102 of 123
9/13/11 at 10:40pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Been shared. Not sharing again.

You redefined what evidence meant. The only logical conclusion was not god based on what you had presented before. You choose to ignore the other more reasonable possibilities because you REALLY REALLY want it to be god. That's not how reality works.

Define god. Provide a testable hypothesis for god. Let's just start there.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #103 of 123
9/13/11 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You redefined what evidence meant. The only logical conclusion was not god based on what you had presented before. You choose to ignore the other more reasonable possibilities because you REALLY REALLY want it to be god. That's not how reality works.

Define god. Provide a testable hypothesis for god. Let's just start there.

I have not redefined anything. You on the other hand have redefined what redefining things looks like here.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #104 of 123
9/13/11 at 10:47pm
And yet another thread devolves into a Creation vs. Evolution argument.

In spite of the fact that the thread was presumably started to discuss something else.

When did Fellowship first join? I think that was my favourite version of this discussion.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #105 of 123
9/13/11 at 11:07pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I have not redefined anything. You on the other hand have redefined what redefining things looks like here.

What you have provided does not support a god. Hence, you have not provided evidence for a god.

You claiming that what you have presented is evidence either redefines the word evidence or demonstrates that you do not understand what evidence means. So sure, I apologize. You may not have redefined the word. You may simply be ignorant of what evidence actually is in the first place. Again, my sincerest apologies on leaving out the option that you cannot reason.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #106 of 123
9/13/11 at 11:08pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post



Ooh, that's double evidence*. The banana fits perfectly in her hand and there's clearly Jebus on it!



*redefined evidence

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #107 of 123
9/14/11 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What you have provided does not support a god. Hence, you have not provided evidence for a god.

You claiming that what you have presented is evidence either redefines the word evidence or demonstrates that you do not understand what evidence means. So sure, I apologize. You may not have redefined the word. You may simply be ignorant of what evidence actually is in the first place. Again, my sincerest apologies on leaving out the option that you cannot reason.

You call for something that you cannot accept evidence for unless you can force it to look like you want it to. I cannot force God to perform for you like a dancing monkey BR. Sorry. You will have to take it up with him yourself.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #108 of 123
9/14/11 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You call for something that you cannot accept evidence for unless you can force it to look like you want it to. I cannot force God to perform for you like a dancing monkey BR. Sorry. You will have to take it up with him yourself.

So you can't provide any observable evidence. You can provide hearsay and things that can easily be explained in other ways. At least you admit it. There's no evidence.
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post #109 of 123
9/14/11 at 10:51am
TheHill.com

Quote:
When asked if he prays himself, the president said: "I do. Every night."


He also says that he reads the Bible, and, asked to explain why so many Americans deny that he is a Christian, blamed the internet.

Boy anyone who defends or supported this idiot should be ashamed. Now he's probably praying he gets that requested $600 billion to try to "create or save" some more mythical jobs.

Anyone who votes for him in 2012, well they really are the truest faith-based believers out there.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #110 of 123
9/14/11 at 11:14am
Obama doesn't count because he believes in evolution or something.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #111 of 123
9/14/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Obama doesn't count because he believes in evolution or something.

You guys have not been keeping up. Obama is actually a Republican in disguise. They have already divested themselves of him and are looking for the next miracle... Ummm... I mean (darn those christian terms) the next true left wing candidate that they can support.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #112 of 123
9/14/11 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You guys have not been keeping up. Obama is actually a Republican in disguise. They have already divested themselves of him and are looking for the next miracle... Ummm... I mean (darn those christian terms) the next true left wing candidate that they can support.

I haven't divested myself from President Obama. I dislike some of his policies but I also understand that compromise is necessary. The main issue is that the opposition party is no longer sane, reasonable, and willing to compromise in good faith. This has made President Obama's efforts to seek compromise pull him farther to the right than I would like. But the Democratic party hinges upon trying to compromise. Republicans found the Democrat kryptonite--be fucking unreasonable while Democrats try harder and harder to stick to their ideals and compromise to make government work.

I'm assuming Trumpet made some snarky comment about President Obama praying, judging from your and Jazz's comments. While I do think less of him because of that, he at least has been inclusive to the nonreligious, specifically mentioning us as a group protected by the 1st amendment. That's a far cry from what Republicans have said about atheists. Furthermore, President Obama hasn't attempted to substitute prayer for policy, nor has he set up huge prayer rallies, using his office's influence in the process.

Acknowledging science while still having religion is some serious cognitive dissonance. However, when it counts--with regard to education, technology, and medicine--President Obama is on the side of reality. So yes, him understanding the science of evolution actually does make things a bit different.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #113 of 123
9/14/11 at 12:28pm
So...are you saying that it is possible for someone to be religious and acknowledge the science of evolution?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #114 of 123
9/14/11 at 12:33pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

So...are you saying that it is possible for someone to be religious and acknowledge the science of evolution?

Evidence shows that people do acknowledge the science of evolution while still believing in a deity. People like that exist. I know a few. I wish they would apply their scientific reasoning to their deity, but they have compartmentalized things and the cognitive dissonance has not overwhelmed them. Their belief in a deity is still fucking stupid. Their acknowledgment of the science of evolution is still reasonable.

I'm sure that you would make a fine juror but I still think you are stupid as hell when it comes to your Mormonism. You can compartmentalize things, too. You'll demand real solid evidence in certain areas and then change the game when it comes to your faith. I wish the cognitive dissonance would overwhelm you.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #115 of 123
9/14/11 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I haven't divested myself from President Obama. I dislike some of his policies but I also understand that compromise is necessary. The main issue is that the opposition party is no longer sane, reasonable, and willing to compromise in good faith. This has made President Obama's efforts to seek compromise pull him farther to the right than I would like. But the Democratic party hinges upon trying to compromise. Republicans found the Democrat kryptonite--be fucking unreasonable while Democrats try harder and harder to stick to their ideals and compromise to make government work.

Yes, the Democrats are being thrown out in droves, even in districts that have never elected a Republican and where there is a 3:1 Democratic registration advantage and this is all happening because the Democrats are sane, reasonable and willing to compromise and the Republicans are the opposite of that.

Talk about your cognative dissonance indeed!

Quote:
I'm assuming Trumpet made some snarky comment about President Obama praying, judging from your and Jazz's comments. While I do think less of him because of that, he at least has been inclusive to the nonreligious, specifically mentioning us as a group protected by the 1st amendment. That's a far cry from what Republicans have said about atheists. Furthermore, President Obama hasn't attempted to substitute prayer for policy, nor has he set up huge prayer rallies, using his office's influence in the process.

Yes, in Texas they are only fighting fires with prayer. They aren't using any of those pesky firefighters. I suppose I should dig deeper and see if Obama has issued in presidential proclamations related to prayer and events. I'm sure there are bound to be a few given the thousands most presidents do.


Quote:
Acknowledging science while still having religion is some serious cognitive dissonance. However, when it counts--with regard to education, technology, and medicine--President Obama is on the side of reality. So yes, him understanding the science of evolution actually does make things a bit different.

He understands it yet believes something you claim to be in absolute opposition to it.

I like that bumper sticker though...

Obama/Biden 2012: Cognative Dissonance!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #116 of 123
9/14/11 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

So...are you saying that it is possible for someone to be religious and acknowledge the science of evolution?

Hell yeah. It's even better to be a religion-free Theist, evolution fits nicely into our world view... It's a bit "crazier" though, because it means we are open to various possibilities:

1. The Divine caused the big bang and everything since then is random, evolution is part of physics
2. Intelligent Design... Evolution happens but can be "tweaked" or "seeded" by aliens, The Divine, whatever
3. It's all not real anyway, the "universe" is a hallucination of sorts
4. Evolution is irrelevant because all possible universes exist simultaneously and we human sentient beings are only one of many possible (infinite?) universes
5. Evolution is real and happens but we are still learning a lot about it

Told you it was crazy
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post #117 of 123
9/14/11 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

So...are you saying that it is possible for someone to be religious and acknowledge the science of evolution?

Oh and don't forget...

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post #118 of 123
9/14/11 at 10:46pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Oh and don't forget...


And don't forget this...

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #119 of 123
9/14/11 at 10:50pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hell yeah. It's even better to be a religion-free Theist, evolution fits nicely into our world view... It's a bit "crazier" though, because it means we are open to various possibilities:

1. The Divine caused the big bang and everything since then is random, evolution is part of physics
2. Intelligent Design... Evolution happens but can be "tweaked" or "seeded" by aliens, The Divine, whatever
3. It's all not real anyway, the "universe" is a hallucination of sorts
4. Evolution is irrelevant because all possible universes exist simultaneously and we human sentient beings are only one of many possible (infinite?) universes
5. Evolution is real and happens but we are still learning a lot about it

Told you it was crazy

Well, at least you acknowledge the crazy. Some of the things on your list may be fun to think about, sure--but clearly not supported by any real evidence. Some of those things on your list are just current versions of "I don't know, fuck, I'll make something up" just like the Bible was.

Accepting the idea that we don't have all the answers and likely never will is truly the only real intelligent choice. Not filling in the gaps with made up nonsense is truly the only real intelligent choice. The downside is that means one has to deal with uncertainty--and that's just too scary for some people. They frightened little intellectual children won't turn off the Jesus night-light.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #120 of 123
9/15/11 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Well, at least you acknowledge the crazy. Some of the things on your list may be fun to think about, sure--but clearly not supported by any real evidence. Some of those things on your list are just current versions of "I don't know, fuck, I'll make something up" just like the Bible was.

Accepting the idea that we don't have all the answers and likely never will is truly the only real intelligent choice. Not filling in the gaps with made up nonsense is truly the only real intelligent choice. The downside is that means one has to deal with uncertainty--and that's just too scary for some people. They frightened little intellectual children won't turn off the Jesus night-light.

Yes, the important thing is to continue to learn, seek new knowledge and so on and so forth. That's why I consider myself religion-free nowadays. I have been exposed to enough of Christianity, Catholicism, and Islam to have to admit, there's not enough scope for continued self-exploration within the orthodox practice of those religions.

Some ideas sound made-up but it's also a way of thinking outside the box. That's the first step to gaining new knowledge.

Where faith comes in I guess is harder for me to explain, but I'll try where I can when I have the time.
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