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Google plotted to give Motorola early advantage over other Android licensees

post #1 of 139
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In a bid to control the Android platform to derive the most value from it, Google privately outlined a series of policies, including giving early access advantage to Motorola and not developing Android "in the open."

Google's internal presentation was published by the judge overseeing Oracle's Java infringement case, and detailed by Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents. Like the Microsoft monopoly trial a decade ago, Oracle's lawsuit is bringing all kinds of details of Google's secret inner workings into public view.

"Oracle v. Google is a treasure trove of information about Google's Android-related dealings," Mueller observed.

Open after the fact

The presentation slide is titled, "If we gave it away, how can we ensure we get to benefit from it?" and recommends a set of policies that include "Do not develop in the open. Instead, make source code available after innovation is complete."

Google has regularly closed down Android development at every major release, including the tablet-oriented Android 3.0 Honeycomb this spring.

A second bullet point states "lead device concept: Give early access to the software to partners who build and distribute devices to our specification (ie, Motorola and Verizon). They get a non-contractual time to market advantage and in return they align to our standard."



Mueller also cited a declaration by Oracle stating, "I understand that Google participates in the design and build of some device makers' handsets, and provides the final Android build to the OEM."

Mueller himself notes that "is not like they simply publish the Android codebase on the Internet. According to Oracle, they 'participate in the design and build of [...] handsets.'

"Can you imagine that a company like Samsung, HTC, LG or Sony could still trust Google in this regard if Google actually competes with them through a subsidiary [of Motorola Mobility]?"

He adds that the policy "removes whatever little doubt anyone had left that Google certainly plays favorites with certain Android OEMs, and if the MMI deal goes through, it will play favorites with only one: its own subsidiary, of course."

Despite public assurances that Google's acquisition of Motorola Mobility would have no impact on how the company works with other Android licensees, and public statements by Google's partners that they are happy to be "protected" by Google, individual licensees have made plans to protect their own interests.

Most notably, Samsung's executives have initiated a plan to strengthen the company's own Bada platform and hire software development talent.
post #2 of 139
they mean the nexus project and other major version releases (original Droid and the Xoom)

I didn't think this was secret. in fact I expected something big to be revealed here.

I am disappoint.
post #3 of 139
Android is well and truly screwed, and from so many directions. apple's patent claims are small potatoes compared to oracle's and to the anti-trust and just anti-partner (not illegal, but not smart) actions that google has taken. And yet apple's claims are still serious -- just small compared to those other larger threats.
post #4 of 139
So Google has been lying all along?

Such poor behavior for a once admired Google.
post #5 of 139
ie Motorola and Verizon.

It could have just as easily said ie. Samsung and T-Mobile. Basically, if you develop and include the Google services as Google wants, you get preferencial treatment. This would include companies like Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Verizon, Sprint, T Mobile and many others. I think this was well understood.
post #6 of 139
Typical opinionated slanted story from Daniel. How about just the facts without such a pro-Apple agenda?

Slide essentially says Google will give preference to those who will follow their design closely. They've clearly done this in the past with the Nexus series of phones, first HTC, now Samsung. Using Motorola next time doesn't seem unreasonable.

Certainly pales in comparison to how Apple controls the entire process.
post #7 of 139
Until somewhat recently I had viewed FossPatents as a fair and unbiased source of news on the patent law front. I've noticed that Mr Mueller's's recent posts have been nearly all about Google and/or Android, and decidedly negative. In the most recent he actually seems almost giddy with joy at what he seems to hope are serious Google problems, but at least some of which have been known for some time. The idea that Google works with specific handset manufacturer's for Nexus devices, as an example, is both normal and expected. Sometimes it's Samsung, as it is now, and sometimes others like HTC or Moto. Yet Mr. Mueller would imply there's something new and devious in that supposed "shocking new development".

I'm a bit disappointed. Google may have legal problems, perhaps even serious ones, but I can't tell from reading his blog. It doesn't appear I can trust FossPatents for an honest take on them anymore. Maybe I never could, but didn't have eyes open enough to notice.
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post #8 of 139
The word is SHEPHERD, not sheppard. Dumbasses.
post #9 of 139
There is a distinct difference between open source and (what I call anyway) free source. Now, there's nothing model with a free source model, where you develop a product then allow people access to the source. All my software is developed that way. But I don't claim open source, because I'm not, and Google shouldn't neither.
post #10 of 139
Good to see the Google "Don't Be Evil" mantra has been tacitly applied by the company to mean, "When Google Does It ... It's Not Evil, But When Anyone Else Does It Is."
post #11 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Until somewhat recently I had viewed FossPatents as a fair and unbiased source of news on the patent law front. I've noticed that Mr Mueller's's recent posts have been nearly all about Google and/or Android, and decidedly negative. In the most recent he actually seems almost giddy with joy at what he seems to hope are serious Google problems, but at least some of which have been known for some time. The idea that Google works with specific handset manufacturer's for Nexus devices, as an example, is both normal and expected. Sometimes it's Samsung, as it is now, and sometimes others like HTC or Moto. Yet Mr. Mueller would imply there's something new and devious in that supposed "shocking new development".

I'm a bit disappointed. Google may have legal problems, perhaps even serious ones, but I can't tell from reading his blog. It doesn't appear I can trust FossPatents for an honest take on them anymore. Maybe I never could, but didn't have eyes open enough to notice.

Wow, another person who doesn't agree with you that you publicly disparage. Maybe where there's smoke and raging flames there's fire? Rather than a conspiracy to create something you personally don't agree with?
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post #12 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

The word is SHEPHERD, not sheppard. Dumbasses.

I'm confused ... what are you referencing? I don't see the word Shepherd anywhere in the article, nor in any of the comments.

"Sheppard" can be a correct spelling if it's referring to a name. If you're talking about the dog breed(s) or the profession then it is spelled "Shepherd," but I don't know it makes you a genius for pointing it out. All it really does is make you come off as a dick ... like you've never made a spelling or grammar mistake in your life.
post #13 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Wow, another person who doesn't agree with you that you publicly disparage. Maybe where there's smoke and raging flames there's fire? Rather than a conspiracy to create something you personally don't agree with?

Hard to say. As I first said, whether I agreed with him or not didn't matter, I felt he was an unbiased source and one that I could trust to report the facts as they were, good or bad, for Google or Apple or anyone else. The tone of some of his recent blogs has changed my opinion.
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post #14 of 139
I thought that this was pretty much known. Heck, I thought it was pretty clear with the Xoom since no other handset maker had Honeycomb at that time. Either way, I don't think Google would get any flak for this if it hadn't done the whole "open" meme and implying that other companies were practically totalitarian states that drowned kittens and turned their pelts into coats for meth cookers.
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post #15 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

Good to see the Google "Don't Be Evil" mantra has been tacitly applied by the company to mean, "When Google Does It ... It's Not Evil, But When Anyone Else Does It Is."

Google's mantra may be "Don't be Evil", but the advertisers that Google serves has an overriding mantra of "Sell more products!"
post #16 of 139
Google is really out of options with this Oracle lawsuit. Everyday something damaging to Google is disclosed. Steve Jobs was right, this "Do No Evil" is BS.
post #17 of 139
Elle-Oh-Elle.

I'd love to get the reactions of all the "Android is open!!! iOS sucks because it's closed" people who have regularly chimed in over the years on gadget sites....
post #18 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

I'm confused ... what are you referencing? I don't see the word Shepherd anywhere in the article, nor in any of the comments.

...

Not supporting but it is in the slide itself. Perhaps you had pics blocked instead hence cannot see it. Can happen when viewed in iPhone mode.
post #19 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hard to say. As I first said, whether I agreed with him or not didn't matter, I felt he was an unbiased source and one that I could trust to report the facts as they were, good or bad, for Google or Apple or anyone else. The tone of some of his recent blogs has changed my opinion.

actually, your problem is the trtuth. Google is being exposed in court for the thieves and phonies they really are.
post #20 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

ie Motorola and Verizon.

It could have just as easily said ie. Samsung and T-Mobile. Basically, if you develop and include the Google services as Google wants, you get preferencial treatment. This would include companies like Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Verizon, Sprint, T Mobile and many others. I think this was well understood.

Actually, what Google want is more than just including their Google services on every device...they also want to ensure no non-standard interfaces (ie. HTC Sense, Motoblur, Touchwiz) are layered on top to prevent fragmentation. The problem is the OEM's depend on this for differentiation of their products which then lets them see higher returns on their handsets by using brand loyalty so they will not willingly give them up otherwise they would have already done it as this is what Google has been asking for.

If they layers are more important to consumers then the OEM's can replace the underlying OS (ie. older versions of Android or even replace Android completely (ie. Meego)) and still sell handsets and Google know this. Since the OEM's will not give up their only real differentiator I do not see how Google can ever get them back into line. The OEM's saw what happenned to the PC industry and know that relying only on hardware is not a long term business strategy. If Google do not release Android versions in a timely manner then Android will continue to become more fragmented over time which means the nightmare for developing for Android will continue.
post #21 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hard to say. As I first said, whether I agreed with him or not didn't matter, I felt he was an unbiased source and one that I could trust to report the facts as they were, good or bad, for Google or Apple or anyone else. The tone of some of his recent blogs has changed my opinion.

As I tried to say to you before... I felt that he didn't even present the facts. Many of Florian's headlines are almost as bad as DED's imo.

... but now that it isn't going Google's way...
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post #22 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Beige View Post

So Google has been lying all along?

Such poor behavior for a once admired Google.

Trust is like virginity -- Once broken, Never mended!
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post #23 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by global.philosopher View Post

Actually, what Google want is more than just including their Google services on every device...they also want to ensure no non-standard interfaces (ie. HTC Sense, Motoblur, Touchwiz) are layered on top to prevent fragmentation. The problem is the OEM's depend on this for differentiation of their products which then lets them see higher returns on their handsets by using brand loyalty so they will not willingly give them up otherwise they would have already done it as this is what Google has been asking for.

If they layers are more important to consumers then the OEM's can replace the underlying OS (ie. older versions of Android or even replace Android completely (ie. Meego)) and still sell handsets and Google know this. Since the OEM's will not give up their only real differentiator I do not see how Google can ever get them back into line. The OEM's saw what happenned to the PC industry and know that relying only on hardware is not a long term business strategy. If Google do not release Android versions in a timely manner then Android will continue to become more fragmented over time which means the nightmare for developing for Android will continue.

I agree. If haven't already, you should check out the comments on the article about Baidu forking Android. This POV is discussed there. I also find it interesting that Amazon is supposedly doing the same thing.
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post #24 of 139
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Originally Posted by dm3 View Post


Certainly pales in comparison to how Apple controls the entire process.

What's that supposed to mean?

Apple does all the R&D, Design, [contracted] Manufacturing, Supply Chain Management, Marketing, Distribution, Support, Developer Infrastructure, Builds the Ecosystem...

Apple has found a way to deliver a superior product, preferred by millions of users.

They have done all the work and assumed all the risk -- and are, deservedly, reaping the rewards!

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post #25 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

Good to see the Google "Don't Be Evil" mantra has been tacitly applied by the company to mean, "When Google Does It ... It's Not Evil, But When Anyone Else Does It Is."

Apologies to Tom Leher...

..."Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice... Unless you get a good percentage of her price, Da-Dah"
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post #26 of 139
it's fascinating to watch the twisted rationalizations of the Fandroids to this smoking gun power point slide.

Google has a dramatically more gigantic "reality distortion field" with Google-aid elixar than Apple ever did. Apple is very up front about its "walled garden." it's not open. it's proprietary (except Web Kit). it's Apple's way or the highway. take it as they put it out, on Apple's terms, or leave it. your choice.

but Google, ah! it's open! (huge lie). it's all free! (as they sell you to their advertisers). we don't copy or steal ... trust us!

there's that river in Egypt ... jump in the boat.
post #27 of 139
groklaw has a better track record than Florian Mueller and much more level-headed analysis too.

It's amazing how bad Florian Mueller's track record is, yet the media keep quoting him. There's also his sketch-reputation as a Microsoft lackey.

Check these guys out:

http://www.groklaw.net/

And the guy is an actual lawyer....not some pseudo professional.

I'd also take thisismynext's Nilay Patel over Florian Mueller any day. Another guy who actually knows what he's talking about.

As for the news at hand....years old slide, and we know which strategy Google picked...see the Nexus line, Moto Xoom, etc. And various comments by Rubin himself over the years have made clear that Google gives privileges to those who work on its Google "experience" devices. So what's the news here?
post #28 of 139
Actually, these latest revelations could work to Google's advantage.

It may raise antitrust issues that prevent the Google/MMI merger...

It may be that Google can, thus, abandon its ill-conceived $12 Billion purchase without having to pay the $3.5 Billion guarantee it gave MMI.

...We really, really, wanted to buy you -- but they just wouldn't let us...

It will be interesting to see if the market reacts -- MMI has been hovering near the Google Offering price during a week or so of down tech stocks.
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post #29 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

groklaw has a better track record than Florian Mueller and much more level-headed analysis too.

It's amazing how bad Florian Mueller's track record is, yet the media keep quoting him.

Check these guys out:

http://www.groklaw.net/

I suspect the media attention may be the reason for the more controversial tilt at FossPatentsBlog. You don't get attention by being meek, and Florian has certainly become more hi-profile lately. Back when he appeared more even-handed, I seldom recalled his name being mentioned.

EDIT: By the way, thanks for the Groklaw link.
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post #30 of 139
WTF.

This is the kind of article that spawns a lot of "AI has sure gone downhill since..." sentiments. "FOSS Patents" did an excellent job explaining what's troubling about these documents. Then Dilger turns around and does this hatchet job.

Please, in the RSS feed, would you guys start listing the author? Many of the AI writers are quite good. Others, I'd like to skip.
post #31 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hard to say. As I first said, whether I agreed with him or not didn't matter, I felt he was an unbiased source and one that I could trust to report the facts as they were, good or bad, for Google or Apple or anyone else. The tone of some of his recent blogs has changed my opinion.

I get the impression he is calling them like he sees them. When a hundred mile an hour fastball comes directly in the strike zone an unbiased umpire might well say "STRIIIIIIKE" instead of "strike". The various emails that have been uncovered in court being the fastball.
post #32 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

WTF.

This is the kind of article that spawns a lot of "AI has sure gone downhill since..." sentiments. "FOSS Patents" did an excellent job explaining what's troubling about these documents. Then Dilger turns around and does this hatchet job.

Please, in the RSS feed, would you guys start listing the author? Many of the AI writers are quite good. Others, I'd like to skip.

Actually, if you read the wording/slant of the headline -- 9 times out of ten you can tell it's a DED bias job before even opening the article.
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post #33 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I suspect the media attention may be the reason for the more controversial tilt at FossPatentsBlog. You don't get attention by being meek, and Florian has certainly become more hi-profile lately. Back when he appeared more even-handed, I seldom recalled his name being mentioned.

EDIT: By the way, thanks for the Groklaw link.

Actually, an Ars writer stated in the comments on an article that they tend to quote Florian because he is the quickest to get back to them and that other patent experts and attorneys don't get back with the writers until after deadline. I guess the early bird gets the, um, worm.
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post #34 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

I get the impression he is calling them like he sees them. When a hundred mile an hour fastball comes directly in the strike zone an unbiased umpire might well say "STRIIIIIIKE" instead of "strike". The various emails that have been uncovered in court being the fastball.

No. He spins stuff. And he's often wrong. Read groklaw. Then read fosspatents. You'll see what I mean.

There's a huge difference between analysis by a trained lawyer and a self-described patent "expert" with no legal training, attempting to pass himself off as a crystal ball on what are essentially legal disputes. He's got less legal training than a paralegal fighting traffic tickets....
post #35 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Actually, an Ars writer stated in the comments on an article that they tend to quote Florian because he is the quickest to get back to them and that other patent experts and attorneys don't get back with the writers until after deadline. I guess the early bird gets the, um, worm.

It could be because they, you know, actually digest what's happening and then apply their considerable knowledge to provide proper analysis, not fanboy tripe dressed up as sound expert opinion.

At least DED acknowledges his bias and is unapologetic about it. But Florian Mueller loves to pretend he's unbiased.
post #36 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm3 View Post

Typical opinionated slanted story from Daniel. How about just the facts without such a pro-Apple agenda?

This is normal. This is Apple-focused website anyway.

Quote:
Slide essentially says Google will give preference to those who will follow their design closely. They've clearly done this in the past with the Nexus series of phones, first HTC, now Samsung. Using Motorola next time doesn't seem unreasonable.

Certainly pales in comparison to how Apple controls the entire process.

Have you read the original slide presentation in whole or at least, FOSS website?
>This is them following Apple. Wait until they reached to that of Apple level. Soon, people will know how 'considerate' they are /Sarcasm. > Don't be evil (_!_) :-(*)
post #37 of 139
Just to be clear, I still will read FossPatents. He has a lot of good detail and his opinion can't automatically be chalked up as anti-Google, pro-Apple. I just no longer feel that I can take his opinions as seriously as I once did. Doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile read.
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post #38 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Beige View Post

So Google has been lying all along?

Such poor behavior for a once admired Google.



Google is Evil! i've been saying this all along!!!!

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post #39 of 139
\. . . big type again. . .
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post #40 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

It could be because they, you know, actually digest what's happening and then apply their considerable knowledge to provide proper analysis, not fanboy tripe dressed up as sound expert opinion.

At least DED acknowledges his bias and is unapologetic about it. But Florian Mueller loves to pretend he's unbiased.

What's with the 'tude, dude? I was simply offering a reason stated by a writer. I didn't say it was right. In fact, my "um" was actually me questioning whether or not that was such a great prize. Take a Valium.
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