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Obama's Speech To Joint Session Of Congress Thread

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 
Start Here. 7pm EDT Thursday 8 Sep 2011. Personally, I think it's good that he lays everything on the table. After that, it's up to the Dems and GOP to make a fool of themselves, or try and save the country.
post #2 of 68
I think the foolishness begins at 7pm, right?
post #3 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I think the foolishness begins at 7pm, right?

That is what the first line of his post states.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #4 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I think the foolishness begins at 7pm, right?

Actually, I expect the Fox News commentary and coverage of Obama's speech to start slightly before.
post #5 of 68
Truth be told it started soon after the inauguration. Some background.

Why the Stimulus Failed
post #6 of 68
Expecting $400 billion with some payroll tax cut extensions, increases on the "wealthiest Americans," corporate depreciation extension. In other words, nothing that will make a damn bit of difference. And nothing that stands a chance of passing the House.
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post #7 of 68
I'll be at a bar by 7 so I guess I'll miss it. Dagnabbit!
post #8 of 68
Anyone see it? I was working...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #9 of 68
Thread Starter 
Just caught some of it. Quite emphatic. He said about 20+ times, "Pass This Act"... the Jobs Act. In honour of Steve Jobs. Kidding LOL.
post #10 of 68
Thread Starter 
For your pleasure (or displeasure): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvmUOqCWu64
post #11 of 68
Quick summation, the man's got no more juice. I mean seriously, talk about a complete lack of charisma and salesmanship.

He looks like he hasn't slept in a month and the tone he takes is that of someone just ticked off that a bunch of incompetent people haven't somehow made the magic of his grand plan come to pass.

The problem could never be the plan though right?

His speech was also really, really rushed.

This speech is just.......sad really. It amounts to "Daddy's feeling lucky tonight, just give me another half trillion and I'm sure I won't crap out this time."

What happened to the previous "shovel ready" stimulus? of $787 billion that became $850 billion? I guess all that did was give us the worst roads, schools, airports and infrastructure in the world. Almost $5 trillion in deficit spending and three years in and this campaign speech makes it sound like someone else has been running the show this whole time.

Obama's a one note song and he's been droning on too long.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #12 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quick summation, the man's got no more juice. I mean seriously, talk about a complete lack of charisma and salesmanship.

He looks like he hasn't slept in a month and the tone he takes is that of someone just ticked off that a bunch of incompetent people haven't somehow made the magic of his grand plan come to pass.

The problem could never be the plan though right?

His speech was also really, really rushed.

This speech is just.......sad really. It amounts to "Daddy's feeling lucky tonight, just give me another half trillion and I'm sure I won't crap out this time."

What happened to the previous "shovel ready" stimulus? of $787 billion that became $850 billion? I guess all that did was give us the worst roads, schools, airports and infrastructure in the world. Almost $5 trillion in deficit spending and three years in and this campaign speech makes it sound like someone else has been running the show this whole time.

Obama's a one note song and he's been droning on too long.

Has anyone come up with better ideas in the past few years?
post #13 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Has anyone come up with better ideas in the past few years?

Cut taxes, cut spending, make the poor work for their supper. And then cut taxes some more.

At least that plan will give the rich a chance to get a little richer before the entire economy collapses, the whole world revokes our credit, poverty, starvation and crime rates soar, and we fall into revolution.
post #14 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Has anyone come up with better ideas in the past few years?

Yes, absolutely.

Look at the speech, rebuild some existing infrastructure and hire back a bunch of teachers that had to be let go at the end of the first "stimulus" because tax revenue kept falling and he wanted them to keep their jobs as Democratic voters. It's the same old crap. When it doesn't work you have Democrats blaming ATM machines, iPads and other Luddite nonsense.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #15 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes, absolutely.

Look at the speech, rebuild some existing infrastructure and hire back a bunch of teachers that had to be let go at the end of the first "stimulus" because tax revenue kept falling and he wanted them to keep their jobs as Democratic voters. It's the same old crap. When it doesn't work you have Democrats blaming ATM machines, iPads and other Luddite nonsense.

Hmm... you still haven't said what the "better ideas" are and who came up with them.
post #16 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hmm... you still haven't said what the "better ideas" are and who came up with them.

If Ron Paul or the Tea Party get their way, we'll soon have people sneaking over the border to get into Mexico. Canadian Mounties will have a shoot to kill order.
post #17 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hmm... you still haven't said what the "better ideas" are and who came up with them.

Of course I haven't. The thread is about his speech.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #18 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Of course I haven't. The thread is about his speech.

But you said that the ideas weren't that great. So what are the better ideas?

Our discourse so far has been something like me saying, "I think the MacBook Air 13" looks nice". And you saying, "No it doesn't".

So what would you prefer? I'm curious, partly because the other recent running threads on Political Outsider don't seem to state any real Republican policies or proposed solutions.
post #19 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

But you said that the ideas weren't that great. So what are the better ideas?

Our discourse so far has been something like me saying, "I think the MacBook Air 13" looks nice". And you saying, "No it doesn't".

So what would you prefer? I'm curious, partly because the other recent running threads on Political Outsider don't seem to state any real Republican policies or proposed solutions.

Actually I said it was more of the same. Victor Hanson Davis hits the same points I did but of course much better since he gets paid to write.

Quote:
Obama must be in a time warp he thinks the content of his speech is new, or can be made new by more soaring cadences. Its almost as if he is oblivious to the fact that, before calling for nearly half a trillion dollars in government borrowing to jumpstart temporary job creation tonight, he already oversaw a failed $800 million stimulus, shovel-ready jobs that were later admitted to be not so shovel-ready, millions of green jobs talk leading to sweetheart loans to now-bankrupt crony companies, nearly $5 trillion in new borrowing, and massive new financial and environmental regulations. Been there, done that.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #20 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually I said it was more of the same. Victor Hanson Davis hits the same points I did but of course much better since he gets paid to write.

No worries. For those that are more charitable to offer their words for this forum, I've started a new thread at:

The Alternative To Obama And Democrat Policies Thread
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=131886

I know it's the middle of the night in the US now, so that's why it's *cough* empty at the moment.
post #21 of 68
Ouch, what a speech. Obama really knows what matters to most people and get's that across like no one else. You could feel the seething anger of the repubs watching it, as Obama prioritized tax cuts for ordinary Americans over a select few who who tightly grip the reigns of America's wealth-

"Like so many high-profile Manhattan skyscrapers, the Helmsley building has its own zip code.

The data directly from tax returns show that total average income tax liability for individuals filing from the Helmsley building was only 13.7 percent of AGI.

As is true for most rich people, payroll taxes are small relative to income taxes. In 2007 the social security portion of payroll taxes (12.4 percent rate) was imposed on no more than $97,500 of wage and self-employment income. The Medicare portion (2.9 percent rate) had no limit. For Helmsley filers estimated payroll taxes added only 1 percentage point to their effective tax rate. Combined income and payroll tax liability tax for this privileged group was only 14.7 percent of AGI.

Working people have an entirely different tax profile than the elite. The biggest difference is that for workers, payroll taxes impose a larger burden than the income tax. Data from the U.S. Department of Labor indicate the average annual salary in the New York City area was $33,080 for a janitor and $27,640 for a security guard. Using the 2007 version of the Form 1040 EZ a typical New York janitor's income tax liability is $3,168. Payroll taxes total $5,062. Combined income tax and payroll tax liability for the typical janitor is 24.9 percent of AGI."
~ http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.ns...nk/MSUN-8E6QJ3
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #22 of 68
If today's stock market performance is any indication, the market was not encouraged by Obama's plan, which is just another doomed-to-fail Keynesian "stimulus".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #23 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quick summation, the man's got no more juice. I mean seriously, talk about a complete lack of charisma and salesmanship.

He looks like he hasn't slept in a month and the tone he takes is that of someone just ticked off that a bunch of incompetent people haven't somehow made the magic of his grand plan come to pass.

The problem could never be the plan though right?

His speech was also really, really rushed.

This speech is just.......sad really. It amounts to "Daddy's feeling lucky tonight, just give me another half trillion and I'm sure I won't crap out this time."

What happened to the previous "shovel ready" stimulus? of $787 billion that became $850 billion? I guess all that did was give us the worst roads, schools, airports and infrastructure in the world. Almost $5 trillion in deficit spending and three years in and this campaign speech makes it sound like someone else has been running the show this whole time.

Obama's a one note song and he's been droning on too long.


I know that others will pan this, but I completely agree. My reaction was as follows:

---He had some good proposals
---He had some meaningless/unrealistic proposals
---He had some utterly stupid, rigidly ideological proposals

--He looked angry and tired
--He was unbelievably condescending and partisan

---The speech was an odd mix of pro-business rhetoric and class warfare rhetoric. It was practically bipolar. We'd be talking about business tax cuts and payroll tax cuts...but he's slam corporations and the rich in the same breath because they can "afford to pay more."

--Obama presented the more "conservative" proposals as some kind of "bone" that he was throwing to "you guys on the other side." He essentially said "COME ON! EVEN YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO SUPPORT THIS NOW!!!" In fact, that's actually what he said at one point in a slightly less angry tone.


As for the plan itself: It's loaded with nonsense that won't work. Thousands of teachers and road workers and steel workers and auto workers aren't going to get jobs or raises. Even if the tax cuts alone passed, it's too little, too late. A real economic stimulus through massive reform and less government would take at least 2 years to get moving. In short, the plan is a joke.
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post #24 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Ouch, what a speech. Obama really knows what matters to most people and get's that across like no one else. You could feel the seething anger of the repubs watching it, as Obama prioritized tax cuts for ordinary Americans over a select few who who tightly grip the reigns of America's wealth

Your reaction is proof that it was a fairly effective campaign speech for liberals and Obama supporters.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #25 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Your reaction is proof that it was a fairly effective campaign speech for liberals and Obama supporters.

Obama falls flat in many areas in my opinion, but that speech wasn't one of them.

The repubs are having a hard time stomaching the thought of a payroll tax cut, instead they want to feed the rich more. Even Romney I think now is calling for zero corporation tax (if I'm mistaken, great, but I think that's what he said in the recent debate).

Check out what corporations are doing with their record profits here- http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...-corporations/
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post #26 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Obama falls flat in many areas in my opinion, but that speech wasn't one of them.

The repubs are having a hard time stomaching the thought of a payroll tax cut, instead they want to feed the rich more. Even Romney I think now is calling for zero corporation tax (if I'm mistaken, great, but I think that's what he said in the recent debate).

Check out what corporations are doing with their record profits here- http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...-corporations/

As I've mentioned, I've challenged any poster to come up with alternatives to what Obama is trying to do: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=131886

You know, in a normal functioning government or any organisation, if somebody is proposing a plan, and people feel it sucks, there's no point just pointing and saying, "Boo! It sucks!"... Come up with an alternative. Show people this plausible, holistic (not just nit-picking) alternative and you've got all the ammo you need for electing a Republican president.

The thread above is *still* empty.
post #27 of 68
That speech should make for some good campaign ads.
post #28 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Obama falls flat in many areas in my opinion, but that speech wasn't one of them.

This speech was the centerpiece of those areas.

Quote:

The repubs are having a hard time stomaching the thought of a payroll tax cut,

No, they are not.

Quote:
instead they want to feed the rich more.

Feed them with their own money?

Quote:
Even Romney I think now is calling for zero corporation tax (if I'm mistaken, great, but I think that's what he said in the recent debate).

No. You're simply wrong. He wants to reduce it from 35 to 25 percent, and cut capital gains to zero. An excellent idea, btw.

Quote:

Check out what corporations are doing with their record profits here- http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...-corporations/

Think Progress. Riiiiight.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #29 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Truth be told it started soon after the inauguration. Some background.

Why the Stimulus Failed

ditto

when ever obama says "right now" "we need this by tomorrow or we will face catastrophe" he has cried wolf so often that
not doing what he says is the right thing to do. he has a history.....so follow it
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #30 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


Hands Sandon- "The repubs are having a hard time stomaching the thought of a payroll tax cut,"

SDW2001- No, they are not.

Yes they are!-


"Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said on Sunday that House Republicans would oppose President Barack Obama's payroll tax cuts for both employers and employees, arguing that the policy had already failed to provide a sufficient boost to the economy. "It hasn't worked," Ryan said, suggesting the current temporary tax cut should be allowed to expire, which will amount to a 50 percent tax hike on workers making less than $106,000 per year.

He also said that he opposes the president's plan to require millionaires to pay the same tax rate as the middle class. "Class warfare might make for good politics, but it makes for rotten economics," he said."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_968408.html
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post #31 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yes they are!-


"Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said on Sunday that House Republicans would oppose President Barack Obama's payroll tax cuts for both employers and employees, arguing that the policy had already failed to provide a sufficient boost to the economy. "It hasn't worked," Ryan said, suggesting the current temporary tax cut should be allowed to expire, which will amount to a 50 percent tax hike on workers making less than $106,000 per year.

He also said that he opposes the president's plan to require millionaires to pay the same tax rate as the middle class. "Class warfare might make for good politics, but it makes for rotten economics," he said."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_968408.html

So is it a republican or the republicans? You have one saying something. What about the rest?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #32 of 68
Ryan appears to claim to speak for House Republicans. Are you saying Paul Ryan isn't being truthful here?

 

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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Ryan appears to claim to speak for House Republicans. Are you saying Paul Ryan isn't being truthful here?

Nope, I am saying that it would not be the first time that a leader said one thing while the rank and file said something else. They very well may be in agreement, but from that piece, the only one in the House stating that is Ryan, unless I missed something.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #34 of 68
Romney came out against it weeks ago. So did Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX). The latter is the fourth-ranking republican.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44218846/ns/politics/

 

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post #35 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Romney came out against it weeks ago. So did Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX). The latter is the fourth-ranking republican.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44218846/ns/politics/

Well isn't that a convoluted mess they have gotten themselves into. So the tax is specifically for social security benefits and the cut is only on the workers side so that people can take more home. Now they want to end that which will directly affect all workers with smaller paychecks. But it will increase the revenue for social security which ran a shortfall for the first time.

Ok, so I can see both sides of this issue. It is both a tax hike and an attempt at fiscal responsibility. The definitely seem to believe that the cuts need to be for the businesses and not the workers to stimulate the economy. All I know for sure is, this will definitely affect my bottom line if it expires. Also, if it does not expire it will affect social securities bottom line.

Seems like there is a tax hike in our futures.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #36 of 68
So tax hikes are suddenly reasonable when it doesn't affect the top 1%. Wonderful. Fuck the hypocritical assholes.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #37 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So tax hikes are suddenly reasonable when it doesn't affect the top 1%. Wonderful. Fuck the hypocritical assholes.

That is not what they are saying. They are saying that tax beaks for the ones that employ people will do more to spur the economy than tax breaks for the workers themselves. In this instance I don't believe that it will make any difference either way. If you cut this particular tax it will affect SSI receipts. It does not matter which side is cut.

This will be seen as negative no matter where they land on it. One will affect people and their take home pay, the other will negatively impact SSI receipts and possibly affect retired persons benefits negatively. How do you want to see this play out?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #38 of 68
"Talking Points: The Buffett Rule

22,000 millionaires -- making more than $1 million annually -- paid less than 15 percent of their income in taxes in 2009.

And the top 400 richest Americans, all making over $110 million per year and making an average of $271 million per year, paid only 18 percent of their income in income taxes in 2008. In fact, since the mid-1990s, the share of income paid by the wealthiest 400 Americans has fallen by nearly 40 percent, from 29.9% in 1995, even as their average incomes roughly quadrupled.

Too many middle class Americans pay more than this -- especially when payroll taxes are taken into account.

The fact is, it's not fair to reduce the deficit by shifting the burden on the middle class, older Americans, or those who can least afford it.

Unfortunately, Congressional Republicans believe the burden of deficit reduction should only come from spending cuts to critical programs, including Medicare and Medicaid, and refuse to ask millionaires and billionaires to pay their fair share to get our fiscal house in order and reduce the deficit."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_968682.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #39 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

That is not what they are saying. They are saying that tax beaks for the ones that employ people will do more to spur the economy than tax breaks for the workers themselves. In this instance I don't believe that it will make any difference either way. If you cut this particular tax it will affect SSI receipts. It does not matter which side is cut.

This will be seen as negative no matter where they land on it. One will affect people and their take home pay, the other will negatively impact SSI receipts and possibly affect retired persons benefits negatively. How do you want to see this play out?

It is exactly what they are saying. BR is right.

Personally I'd like it if all the TeaPublican's gave any payroll tax cut they receive to the wealthy, indeed take a pledge to do so, to create more jobs.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #40 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It is exactly what they are saying. BR is right.

Personally I'd like it if all the TeaPublican's gave any payroll tax cut they receive to the wealthy, indeed take a pledge to do so, to create more jobs.

So we Disagree. Show me how my interpretation is wrong and yours is right based on the article he posted.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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