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Is Rick Perry The Next Ronald Reagan? - Page 2

post #41 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The Galileo thing we JUST talked about...

What erroneous information did I put in of my own?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #42 of 100
Thread Starter 
" CBO: Between 1.3 million and 3.6 million jobs saved or created.

IHS/Global Insight: 2.45 million jobs saved or created.

Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.3 million jobs saved or created.

Moodys Economy.com: 2.5 million jobs saved or created."
~ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ted-zero-jobs/

...but Perry said no jobs were created by the stimulus, "zero".

More lies from the GOP candidates here- http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...012ers-you-lie
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #43 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

" CBO: Between 1.3 million and 3.6 million jobs saved or created.

IHS/Global Insight: 2.45 million jobs saved or created.

Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.3 million jobs saved or created.

Moodys Economy.com: 2.5 million jobs saved or created."
~ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ted-zero-jobs/

...but Perry said no jobs were created by the stimulus, "zero".

More lies from the GOP candidates here- http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...012ers-you-lie

Lets not cut out this part.
Quote:
Note the language "created or saved," which means not every one of those more than a million jobs count as "created," as Perry said.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #44 of 100
Yes, exactly how many jobs were "saved", and how many were "created"? Should they not be separate statistics?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #45 of 100
Thread Starter 
"Rick Perry, the frontrunner to become the Republican candidate in next year's presidential election, has just hours left to prevent a man being put to death in Texas in a case in which the jury was told the prisoner was a danger to the public – and should therefore be executed – because he was black.

Duane Buck is one of four men scheduled to die by lethal injection in Texas, where Perry is governor, over the next eight days – an exceptional rate even in this execution-happy state. At Buck's sentencing hearing, the jury that set his punishment was informed by a psychologist that black people had a higher rate of violent behaviour, a statement used by the prosecution as its key argument against giving him an alternative penalty of life imprisonment.

At the hearing, a psychologist, Dr Walter Quijano, was called by the defence and testified that he did not believe Buck would be a future danger as the murders had been a one-off crime of passion. But under cross-examination, the prosecution pressed him about Buck's ethnicity as an African-American.

"You have determined that the … race factor, black, increases the future dangerousness for various complicated reasons. Is that correct?" the prosecution asked.

"Yes," replied Quijano.

The prosecution later exhorted the jury to make their decision on the basis of Quijano's testimony. The jury found that Buck did pose a future danger of violence, and put him on death row.

In 2000, the then attorney general in Texas, John Cornyn, admitted that the racial testimony of Quijano had wrongfully been allowed to prejudice sentencing in seven separate cases. Six of those cases were reheard as a result, but, in a legal oversight, Buck's never was.

Buck's lawyer, Katherine Black, is petitioning Perry to commute his execution to allow resentencing. "This case violates the US constitution and undermines our moral values. A person has a right to be sentenced based not on the colour of their skin," the petition reads."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-death-penalty
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #46 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yes, exactly how many jobs were "saved", and how many were "created"? Should they not be separate statistics?

If they were, would "created" be zero?
post #47 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If they were, would "created" be zero?

If he created one job you can claim that jobs were created. However, what would the value of that job be to the economy considering the sheer amount of money spent to do so?

Perry is likely wrong, but I am betting that he is not as wrong as you would like to think. And unfortunately those standing in the unemployment lines feel the same way. He is trying to get elected, so if he can harness that ill will it might help him. It will certainly not help Obama so far.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #48 of 100
Thread Starter 
"During an appearance in New Hampshire on Thursday, Texas Gov. Rick Perry told a crowd that the Recovery Act (Obama stimulus) "didn't create any jobs, as far as I can tell".

However, the Houston Chronicle estimated that stimulus funds created or saved 47,704 jobs in Texas, as of July:

The stimulus-related jobs are spread across the state, from Abilene to Zavalla, and have paid for everything from airport runways to video recorders. The greatest chunk of dollars, more than $2 billion, has been directed to Austin, where myriad state agencies send much of the money elsewhere.

Texas even has a web site where users can track stimulus funds by city and county, revealing exactly what it was used for. Officials used stimulus funds to keep schools open, put more people to work on infrastructure projects and ensure that children received health care.


According to Time magazine, from 2003 to 2006, Gov. Perry oversaw a lobbying campaign that sought federal relief funds, generating over a billion dollars for Texas. Some of that money was used to fund programs Perry now claims to be against.

The federal stimulus program, that many experts agree kept the U.S. economy running in the midst of an unprecedented financial crisis, was especially valuable to Texas, which accepted more aid dollars than any other state apart from California, using them to close nearly 97 percent of its budget deficit last year."

~ http://www.opposingviews.com/i/polit...-say-otherwise
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #49 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Not actually what he said. He said, the science is not settled yet, and just because a supposed majority of scientists claim it is does not make it so. He then used the Galileo phrase to say, for example even Galileo was outnumbered by the scientists of his day, and he was proven to be correct.

You obviously heard what you wanted to hear on this one. You may not agree with what he said, but he did not say what you claimed either.

Fair enough. Let's go along with your interpretation. I will proceed to disagree with what Rick said anyways:

1. He said, the science is not settled yet, and just because a supposed majority of scientists claim it is does not make it so.

Well, this is the basis of modern Science. It is the quest for knowledge, and a continued testing of current knowledge. It is peer-reviewed and evidence-based. This means that of course, majority scientific opinion tends to be the most reliable course of scientific action to follow, even if it is proven incorrect later. The point is that you take the best scientific data, i.e., the most consistent evidence gathered at the time to make decisions.

My point about Rick's response is twofold. One, he did not answer the question specifically about which scientific theories or scientists he felt were important. Secondly, he appears to be almost dismissing the scientific process almost completely. Do we have a cure for Alzheimer's? No, the science is indeed "not settled" but there is more information being gained, medicines being trialled, and research into *slowing* the process at least. Because the science is "not settled" doesn't mean we just throw up our hands and say, ah, f**k it, let grandma just sit there and rot away.

He then used the Galileo phrase to say, for example even Galileo was outnumbered by the scientists of his day, and he was proven to be correct.

I thought even mentioning Galileo was a mistake since the public perception is that Galileo's theories were mainly rejected by the Church since it flew in the face of their doctrine. To try and equate Galileo with the anti-global-warming scientists is disturbing, at best.
post #50 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Fair enough. Let's go along with your interpretation. I will proceed to disagree with what Rick said anyways:

1. He said, the science is not settled yet, and just because a supposed majority of scientists claim it is does not make it so.

Well, this is the basis of modern Science. It is the quest for knowledge, and a continued testing of current knowledge. It is peer-reviewed and evidence-based. This means that of course, majority scientific opinion tends to be the most reliable course of scientific action to follow, even if it is proven incorrect later. The point is that you take the best scientific data, i.e., the most consistent evidence gathered at the time to make decisions.

My point about Rick's response is twofold. One, he did not answer the question specifically about which scientific theories or scientists he felt were important. Secondly, he appears to be almost dismissing the scientific process almost completely. Do we have a cure for Alzheimer's? No, the science is indeed "not settled" but there is more information being gained, medicines being trialled, and research into *slowing* the process at least. Because the science is "not settled" doesn't mean we just throw up our hands and say, ah, f**k it, let grandma just sit there and rot away.

He then used the Galileo phrase to say, for example even Galileo was outnumbered by the scientists of his day, and he was proven to be correct.

I thought even mentioning Galileo was a mistake since the public perception is that Galileo's theories were mainly rejected by the Church since it flew in the face of their doctrine. To try and equate Galileo with the anti-global-warming scientists is disturbing, at best.

Ok there are a couple of points here that you arer making. Let me first say, I am fine with you not agreeing with him. Especially when the disagreement is based on a fair interpretation of what he said.

Second, your Alzheimer's analogy is not a very good one. With Alzheimer's patients you are correct that there is not much we can do, however in a great many cases we are using the people who are rotting away as lab tests to find out what will stop or slow the disease and they are being ravaged by this testing. In some cases it is making them worse than if they had taken no medication at all. Saying, we have to do something about this and then what you are doing actually making the problem worse, or not helping the problem you are trying to fix and at the same time creating a whole other problem is not help. So perhaps you analogy was better than I thought, but it was not in the way you intended.

My overall opinion, don't simply try whatever comes along to fix the problem. You don't want to kill the patient or make them a vegetable, especially when they are not mentally capable of making the decision for themselves if they want the treatment or not. This is partially where your analogy breaks down WRT Alzheimer's disease.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #51 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Ok there are a couple of points here that you arer making. Let me first say, I am fine with you not agreeing with him. Especially when the disagreement is based on a fair interpretation of what he said.

Second, your Alzheimer's analogy is not a very good one. With Alzheimer's patients you are correct that there is not much we can do, however in a great many cases we are using the people who are rotting away as lab tests to find out what will stop or slow the disease and they are being ravaged by this testing. In some cases it is making them worse than if they had taken no medication at all. Saying, we have to do something about this and then what you are doing actually making the problem worse, or not helping the problem you are trying to fix and at the same time creating a whole other problem is not help. So perhaps you analogy was better than I thought, but it was not in the way you intended.

My overall opinion, don't simply try whatever comes along to fix the problem. You don't want to kill the patient or make them a vegetable, especially when they are not mentally capable of making the decision for themselves if they want the treatment or not. This is partially where your analogy breaks down WRT Alzheimer's disease.

Again, fair enough. Maybe my analogy was not as good as I hoped. Mental illness of various kinds is a challenging and difficult thing to deal with. I have first hand experience of this, which I have mentioned in the past but won't go into too much detail now. It was not Alzheimer's since I am young but I had/have something else. It took some four years of medication of various kinds and generally being a zombie for a good one or two years of that. But thanks to modern medication, better psychiatry and research, and a good dose of faith both from my parents and myself I have been able to hold down a part-time job for the recent few years, recently did a short full-time contract and have now moved back to a country where I was before the illness became highly pronounced.
post #52 of 100
Thread Starter 
Perry support dropping faster than you can say "RINO" whilst Ron Paul makes a formidable opponent to Obama-


"Rick Perry’s status as front runner in the race for the GOP nomination is beginning to falter it seems, if the latest national poll released by Rasmussen is anything to go by.

Just two weeks ago, Perry held a three point lead over Obama in a hypothetical match up, since his performance in the debates, he has slipped and trails Obama 46% to 39%.

Perry trails Obama by 15 percentage points among women and barely leads among men.


Meanwhile in a new Reuters/Ipsos survey, Ron Paul emerges as one of the most competitive Republican candidates with registered voters when pitted directly against Obama.

Paul attracts 42% of voters to 49% for Obama, while other candidates such as Perry, Bachmann and Huntsman all fail to draw the president below 50%."

~ http://www.infowars.com/perrys-star-...e-with-voters/
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #53 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Perry support dropping faster than you can say "RINO" whilst Ron Paul makes a formidable opponent to Obama-


"Rick Perry’s status as front runner in the race for the GOP nomination is beginning to falter it seems, if the latest national poll released by Rasmussen is anything to go by.

Just two weeks ago, Perry held a three point lead over Obama in a hypothetical match up, since his performance in the debates, he has slipped and trails Obama 46% to 39%.

Perry trails Obama by 15 percentage points among women and barely leads among men.


Meanwhile in a new Reuters/Ipsos survey, Ron Paul emerges as one of the most competitive Republican candidates with registered voters when pitted directly against Obama.

Paul attracts 42% of voters to 49% for Obama, while other candidates such as Perry, Bachmann and Huntsman all fail to draw the president below 50%."

~ http://www.infowars.com/perrys-star-...e-with-voters/

Worrying news. I'm honestly hoping a Republican wins in 2012, and not Ron Paul.

I'd like to see what Ron Paul can do, but if Ron Paul is elected, he will serve one term and as a historic first will not be nominated by the Republican Party for a second. Then another Reagan Republican will win the presidency in 2016.

If Obama is re-elected, we'll definitely get a hardline Repub in 2016.

But if a Republican (not Paul) is elected, It's possible we'll get a truly Liberal Democrat in 2016, who might be able to fix things if they have the balls Obama doesn't.
post #54 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Worrying news. I'm honestly hoping a Republican wins in 2012, and not Ron Paul.

I'd like to see what Ron Paul can do, but if Ron Paul is elected, he will serve one term and as a historic first will not be nominated by the Republican Party for a second. Then another Reagan Republican will win the presidency in 2016.

If Obama is re-elected, we'll definitely get a hardline Repub in 2016.

But if a Republican (not Paul) is elected, It's possible we'll get a truly Liberal Democrat in 2016, who might be able to fix things if they have the balls Obama doesn't.

Because having a democrat in office later is much more important than actually taking steps towards fixing things in the US now.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #55 of 100
Isn't there a Democrat in office now?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #56 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Isn't there a Democrat in office now?

No, he is a republican masquerading. Keep up.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #57 of 100
Indeed. In truth there's not much of a difference between the two, these days.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #58 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Because having a democrat in office later is much more important than actually taking steps towards fixing things in the US now.

No, because Democrat, Moderate, or whatever he is, Obama doesn't have the balls to tell the Republicans what needs to be done, and do it, without compromise. So if Obama is re-elected, very little will get done, again, and then we'll have Republicans again, probably for eight years, and things will get much, much worse.

Better give them just four years to fuck things up a little more, and then we'll have the next eight for someone with balls to actually make a difference.

Whoever is elected this time, their party cannot win in 2016. No matter who it is. They will get blamed for not fixing things just like Obama was blamed this time (and it was his fault, actually).

With the exception of Ron Paul. If Ron Paul gets a chance, and fails at fixing things just like everybody else will, the public will buy the excuse that he's not a "real" Republican.
post #59 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Worrying news. I'm honestly hoping a Republican wins in 2012, and not Ron Paul.

I'd like to see what Ron Paul can do, but if Ron Paul is elected, he will serve one term and as a historic first will not be nominated by the Republican Party for a second. Then another Reagan Republican will win the presidency in 2016.

If Obama is re-elected, we'll definitely get a hardline Repub in 2016.

But if a Republican (not Paul) is elected, It's possible we'll get a truly Liberal Democrat in 2016, who might be able to fix things if they have the balls Obama doesn't.

I disagree.

I don't think things are looking good for the repubs in 2012.

The Tea Party has momentum, but with that momentum they're seeing moderates shaking their heads. The increasingly extreme nature of the right is putting Obama first as a president who's pragmatic. Ironically, Perry said in the last debate, "I'll always put life first". That's in sharp contrast to reality. The Tea Party puts ideology, corporations and the wealthiest first. We're seeing it again now with The Jobs Bill. The Republicans are committing suicide, not by hanging, but by Tea Partyfication.

If Obama, like I expect, gets a second term, the Republican Party will have Tea Partied itself into such a deep and dark hole by the end of his term, that again, the only credible vote will be for another Democrat. Rand Paul in 2016? I don't think so.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #60 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

" CBO: Between 1.3 million and 3.6 million jobs saved or created.

IHS/Global Insight: 2.45 million jobs saved or created.

Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.3 million jobs saved or created.

Moodys Economy.com: 2.5 million jobs saved or created."
~ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ted-zero-jobs/

...but Perry said no jobs were created by the stimulus, "zero".

More lies from the GOP candidates here- http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...012ers-you-lie

And how many fewer jobs does the economy have now than when Obama took office?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #61 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

And how many fewer jobs does the economy have now than when Obama took office?

Wow, you really fell for Obama the miracle worker spin!

Seriously though, read this-

"In a new paper, the economists argue that without the Wall Street bailout, the bank stress tests, the emergency lending and asset purchases by the Federal Reserve, and the Obama administrations fiscal stimulus program, the nations gross domestic product would be about 6.5 percent lower this year.

In addition, there would be about 8.5 million fewer jobs, on top of the more than 8 million already lost; and the economy would be experiencing deflation, instead of low inflation."
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/bu...28bailout.html
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #62 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't think things are looking good for the repubs in 2012.

Face it. Things aren't looking good for anybody in 2012, or the years that follow.
post #63 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Face it. Things aren't looking good for anybody in 2012, or the years that follow.

I think maybe instead of the magnetic poles switching the economic poles will shift drastically, more so than now.
post #64 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Wow, you really fell for Obama the miracle worker spin!

Seriously though, read this-

"In a new paper, the economists argue that without the Wall Street bailout, the bank stress tests, the emergency lending and asset purchases by the Federal Reserve, and the Obama administrations fiscal stimulus program, the nations gross domestic product would be about 6.5 percent lower this year.

In addition, there would be about 8.5 million fewer jobs, on top of the more than 8 million already lost; and the economy would be experiencing deflation, instead of low inflation."
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/bu...28bailout.html

Of course they do. Because all economists agree, and are always right. And of course it's published in...The New York Times. Imagine that.

Go ahead Hands, keep denying what is plainly in front of your face. Obama is a disaster by any objective measure. There is just no way around it. The "it could have been much worse" argument is the only thing you've got left...and it's wearing thin.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #65 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The "it could have been much worse" argument is the only thing you've got left...and it's wearing thin.

Yet it's a valid claim that cannot be disproved, so get used to it.
post #66 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yet it's a valid claim that cannot be disproved, so get used to it.

It can't possibly be proven.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #67 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It can't possibly be proven.

But saying that about religion is out of bounds. Yeah, bullshit. Hypocrite.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #68 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It can't possibly be proven.

Or disproved.

Just like God.

Haha, BR beat me to it.
post #69 of 100
No worries! The more the merrier!

Narrowly defined gods like Yahweh, the Canaanite war god, can be discarded based on logical fallacies in the attributes assigned to them. I feel very comfortable saying that Yahweh and his Greek and Norse cousins, Ares and Tyr, do not exist. Furthermore, I hold the igtheist position when it comes to the more nebulously defined gods.

Now, logical analysis of the current economic situation can be done and it's pretty overwhelming how many scholars believe the stimulus prevented a much greater disaster.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #70 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Or disproved.

Just like God.

Haha, BR beat me to it.

So it requires faith?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #71 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

So it requires faith?

No. They are reasonable conclusions based on many independent analyses.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ons-jobs-save/

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #72 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Of course they do. Because all economists agree, and are always right. And of course it's published in...The New York Times. Imagine that.

Go ahead Hands, keep denying what is plainly in front of your face. Obama is a disaster by any objective measure. There is just no way around it. The "it could have been much worse" argument is the only thing you've got left...and it's wearing thin.


Nearly 40% of Obama's stimulus went to tax cuts, so did those do no good too?

Why did Rick Perry fight so hard for federal emergency dollars if they do no good-

"According to Time magazine, from 2003 to 2006, Gov. Perry oversaw a lobbying campaign that sought federal relief funds, generating over a billion dollars for Texas. Some of that money was used to fund programs Perry now claims to be against.

The federal stimulus program, that many experts agree kept the U.S. economy running in the midst of an unprecedented financial crisis, was especially valuable to Texas, which accepted more aid dollars than any other state apart from California, using them to close nearly 97 percent of its budget deficit last year."
~ http://www.opposingviews.com/i/polit...-say-otherwise

The fact is nearly a trillion dollars was put to use. It's sad it ever got that far and I think none of us like the added debt. But those dollars helped keep the ball rolling and helped prevent further declines in GDP that would have only diminished the revenue coming in the form of taxes.


Edit- No one here on the right supports Rick Perry openly so please pass on this info to your Democratic friends. Maybe they'll vote for him instead.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #73 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yet it's a valid claim that cannot be disproved, so get used to it.

So no we CAN prove a negative. My, how thy tune has changed.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #74 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Nearly 40% of Obama's stimulus went to tax cuts, so did those do no good too?

In general, no, because they were temporary or even one time reductions.

Quote:

Why did Rick Perry fight so hard for federal emergency dollars if they do no good-

"According to Time magazine, from 2003 to 2006, Gov. Perry oversaw a lobbying campaign that sought federal relief funds, generating over a billion dollars for Texas. Some of that money was used to fund programs Perry now claims to be against.

I can't speak for Perry. Also, I'm not claiming the stimulus didn't help anyone. I'm claiming it didn't help the economy much, if it at all.

Quote:

The federal stimulus program, that many experts agree kept the U.S. economy running in the midst of an unprecedented financial crisis, was especially valuable to Texas, which accepted more aid dollars than any other state apart from California, using them to close nearly 97 percent of its budget deficit last year."
~ http://www.opposingviews.com/i/polit...-say-otherwise

Whatever. There is no way the experts can prove the claim.

Quote:

The fact is nearly a trillion dollars was put to use.

Was it? No, it was spent. And a lot of it was spent on things that didn't help the economy.

Quote:
It's sad it ever got that far and I think none of us like the added debt. But those dollars helped keep the ball rolling and helped prevent further declines in GDP that would have only diminished the revenue coming in the form of taxes.

Any effect it did have was clearly temporary. Unless you're claiming that current growth is being positively impacted by funds spent previously.

Quote:


Edit- No one here on the right supports Rick Perry openly so please pass on this info to your Democratic friends. Maybe they'll vote for him instead.

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #75 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So no we CAN prove a negative. My, how thy tune has changed.

I did not say it could be proven, and for you to say that I did shows either a lack of intelligence, or a lack of honesty.
post #76 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

In general, no, because they were temporary or even one time reductions.

Just like the Bush tax cuts.
Quote:
I can't speak for Perry. Also, I'm not claiming the stimulus didn't help anyone. I'm claiming it didn't help the economy much, if it at all.

Yep, you're claiming that, but you're not showing any data that supports your claim.
Quote:
Whatever. There is no way the experts can prove the claim.

And there's no way you can disprove it.
Quote:
Was it? No, it was spent. And a lot of it was spent on things that didn't help the economy.

There's no way the non-expert (you) can prove that.
Quote:
Any effect it did have was clearly temporary.

LMFAO. First you're claiming that expert economists are incorrect for claiming that the measures helped the economy. Then you, NOT an expert, claim otherwise, as though you know something they don't. You're a riot.
post #77 of 100
Hah, reminds me of this, tonton:



Certain folks here pretend that facts always coincide with their desires, too. But as Morbo says...

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #78 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

" CBO: Between 1.3 million and 3.6 million jobs saved or created.

IHS/Global Insight: 2.45 million jobs saved or created.

Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.3 million jobs saved or created.

Moodys Economy.com: 2.5 million jobs saved or created."
~ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ted-zero-jobs/

...but Perry said no jobs were created by the stimulus, "zero".

More lies from the GOP candidates here- http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...012ers-you-lie

Perry and rest of his cronies constantly lie and lie that is the GOP Party objectives to lie to the public constantly. I agree with you.
post #79 of 100
Perry the next Reagan?



If the Reagan of 1980 was transplanted to the political scene of 2011, he would be laughed off the stage by the current Republican party as being "on the far left of the GOP" and thus unelectable.

Really!
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #80 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I did not say it could be proven, and for you to say that I did shows either a lack of intelligence, or a lack of honesty.

You said "a valid claim that cannot be disproved." The implication is the claim is valid because it cannot be disproved. This is no different than "Iraq has WMD because they have not proven otherwise."
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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