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Adobe concedes HTML5 video support for iOS in Flash Media Server

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
After a heated public battle with Apple over Flash support in iOS devices, Adobe has conceded, announcing support for serving Apple's devices with standard HTML5 video from its Flash Media Server product.

A press release from Adobe announced a "new version of Adobe Flash® Media Server that can now deliver Flash technology to Apple iPhone and iPad devices," causing some confusion among users who know that Apple's devices do not support Flash at all.

In reality, Adobe will simply be adding the ability for its Flash-branded server product to serve standards-based HTML5 video in addition to Flash video.

Adobe later noted that, "with Adobe Flash Media Server 4.5, media publishers now have a single, simple workflow for delivering content using the same stream to Flash-enabled devices or to the Apple iPhone and iPad."

The move to add non-Flash output to its existing Flash development workflow was the solution Steve Jobs recommended Adobe take in April of 2010 when he penned "Thoughts on Flash," which ended the with the comment, "perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind."

Jobs roundly criticized Flash as being a proprietary technology controlled by Adobe, and noted that the majority of Flash content was simply web videos locked in the Flash format, much of which was already available to iOS users in non-Flash versions, such as with YouTube, Vimeo, Netflix and others.

Jobs also called out Adobe's Flash Player as having reliability, security and performance issues, noting that Adobe kept promising a mobile version that it simply could not ship throughout 2009 and into 2010. "We think it will eventually ship, but were glad we didnt hold our breath," Jobs wrote. "Who knows how it will perform?"

Adobe has since shipped a mobile Flash Player for other platforms, including Android, but it continues to deliver the same performance, security and battery life problems that its desktop version exhibits. Fortunately, the majority of Flash content is simply web video and, as Jobs recognized a year and half ago, most of it is now available via alternative open standards.

Adobe's new support for the open HTTP Live Streaming protocol Apple developed and supports in its iOS mobile devices and on Mac OS X will help developers deeply invested in Flash to reach new audiences of iOS users and further erase the need for the Flash plugin on any platform.

Adobe's new video server tool will not benefit developers who create websites based on Flash or applets or games built in Flash, none of which is accessible from iOS devices or from PCs that have not installed Adobe's Flash Player plugin.
post #2 of 46
The White Flag Goes Up at Adobe HQ.

Bye Bye Flash. We Won't Miss You.
post #3 of 46
Adobe will be stupid not to concede. With millions of iOS devices being sold, they will concede or lose out.

Steve Jobs was right. Someone had to lead the pack out of the Adobe Flash fold, and Apple did.
post #4 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

Adobe will be stupid not to concede. With millions of iOS devices being sold, they will concede or lose out.

Steve Jobs was right. Someone had to lead the pack out of the Adobe Flash fold, and Apple did.

While Flash dies, Premier Pro grows in power.

And both are Apple's doing.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlink View Post

That's all I got.

1999 faxed saying they want their comment back.

This "first" stuff is sooo 20th century.
post #6 of 46
People/companies in a once-dominant position always go down kicking and screaming. This validates what Steve Jobs was saying since day one.

Adobe knew it could not further what is essentially an unstable platform that could be (barely) tolerated on a PC platform but had no business whatsoever being on a mobile platform where performance, stability, efficiency, low-power usage was required.

I'm curious how the Flash-fanboys will spin this story. I'll bet they won't raise a whimper and will simply scurry to some dark corner and hope that no one will call them on it.

Goodbye Flash. You will NOT be missed.
post #7 of 46
I truly detest flash. Whenever I've had slowdown problems on my Mac, Flash has usually been the culprit.
Unfortunately, it is still pretty dominant. I tried removing flash from my Mac, but the number of websites that complained with popups became too much, and I reinstalled it.

I am definitely in Steve's corner on this one. Killing Flash will be another one of his great achievements! It couldn't happen soon enuf for me.
post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

I truly detest flash. Whenever I've had slowdown problems on my Mac, Flash has usually been the culprit.
Unfortunately, it is still pretty dominant. I tried removing flash from my Mac, but the number of websites that complained with popups became too much, and I reinstalled it.

I am definitely in Steve's corner on this one. Killing Flash will be another one of his great achievements! It couldn't happen soon enuf for me.

Surprised if you haven't tried "click to flash" yet.

On topic...buh bye flash! It was great in the beginning, but the relationship was over long ago.
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post #9 of 46
Do people even use FMS anymore? I gave up on it in 2004 I think, when it was still Macromedia. It was expensive. We were beta developers so we got at no charge but they wanted a few thousand dollars for that product, retail price, back then. I haven't kept up but I just never hear about anyone using it now. I developed a few applications with it but it needed a different port which was usually blocked. This was before http streaming became prevalent. I would be interested to hear if anyone else can shed some light on the history and current status of the product.

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post #10 of 46
When a corporation like Adobe doesn't have the balls to admit they lost and cannot even mention the competing technology that will be a ubiquitous standard you really have to question their leadership.
post #11 of 46
LOL Flash got kick in the balls.

HAHAHA...
post #12 of 46
Hmm… I'm glad to see Adobe focusing on areas where they can make a profit supplying video but I'm not sure I'd claim Adobe conceded unless they are also recommending FMS and HTTP Live Streaming for other performance and power-limited devices beside the iOS family.
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post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Hmm… I'm glad to see Adobe focusing on areas where they can make a profit supplying video but I'm not sure I'd claim Adobe conceded unless they are also recommending FMS and HTTP Live Streaming for other performance and power-limited devices beside the iOS family.

I find it interesting that so many big vendors are adding Apple HTTP Live Streaming but not giving credit where credit's due.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming

VLC will of course credit Apple when 1.2 of VLC is released.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I find it interesting that so many big vendors are adding Apple HTTP Live Streaming but not giving credit where credit's due.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming

VLC will of course credit Apple when 1.2 of VLC is released.

Wow! Android 3.0. But wait, Apple never gives anything away and creates no open standards¡


PS: You know if Google created it and Apple incorporated it we'd be hearing about Google's generosity every fraking day on this forum.
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post #15 of 46
Quote:
Fortunately, the majority of Flash content is simply web video

"Simply web video"? What the heck does that mean?
post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I'm curious how the Flash-fanboys will spin this story.

Probably like this...

post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkswamp View Post

Probably like this...


LOL!!!! So very true!!!
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkswamp View Post

Probably like this...


He's not QUITE dead.
post #19 of 46
It was a long, drawn out, public battle. And now it's almost done.
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

While Flash dies, Premier Pro grows in power.

And both are Apple's doing.

Oh please. Give it a rest. Adobe has very little market share with Premier Pro and has had to discount it heavily to get people to switch, and STILL has very little market share. FCP X is on v1 and will soon be adding many of the features the pros want. Further, you have to be a complete fool to jump in bed with Adobe as they build bloated, buggy, hard to use, counter intuitive products that are grossly overpriced and which lock you into extortion down the road with each new release. Meanwhile, Apple has set yet another new standard of excellence that will once again revolutionize a market. For those that complain about backwards compatibility, they still have the previous version to work with on their archive projects.

BTW, I've got some 8 track tapes I'd like to sell you!
post #21 of 46
I know this article speaks to Flash video but might it also extend to Flash based gaming? Every time I play a Zynga game, my MBP heats up to near sun like temperatures.
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Oh please. Give it a rest. Adobe has very little market share with Premier Pro and has had to discount it heavily to get people to switch, and STILL has very little market share.

Well. They have 45% more sales since Final Cut Pro X came out.

Quote:
FCP X is on v1 and will soon be adding many of the features the pros want.

Which isn't good enough for many. That we had a repeat of iMovie '08 was enough for people to switch to Adobe and Avid.

Quote:
Further, you have to be a complete fool to jump in bed with Adobe as they build bloated, buggy, hard to use, counter intuitive products that are grossly overpriced and which lock you into extortion down the road with each new release.

That's absolutely correct. That's what I believe.

But they just increased their sales by 45%.

Quote:
For those that complain about backwards compatibility, they still have the previous version to work with on their archive projects.

So you're telling me I have to hold on to outdated software to preserve my years (decades) of work? That's like saying "all pictures taken before the release of Aperture 4 will no longer work with Aperture".

Or, as I already (albeit satirically) stated, "all genres of music created before 2012 won't be compatible with Logic Pro X".

Quote:
BTW, I've got some 8 track tapes I'd like to sell you!

Can I play them on my HD DVD combo player?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolinc View Post

I know this article speaks to Flash video but might it also extend to Flash based gaming? Every time I play a Zynga game, my MBP heats up to near sun like temperatures.

I asked my doctor why every time I beat my head against a brick wall I always wake up the next day with a head ache. She said, well, maybe you should try to refrain from beating your head against a brick wall and see if the condition improves.

The article has nothing to do with your gaming unless it is being served with Flash Media Server which is unlikely.

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post #24 of 46
Hey Adobe, how's about you go back to making great tools for people to JUST CREATE STUFF rather than trying to control the WHOLE path from conception to delivery? Leave the server software to server software companies (and kill ColdFusion already). Get over trying to get everyone to use Flash to deliver media that does not NEED to be in a proprietary container (which is all Flash does for video). Just give content creators great tools that disappear in the operator's hands and allow them to concentrate on the work and not worry about the tools/software crap. This may include a new HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript authoring tool that can (eventually) replace Flash. 'Cause you don't make any money from the plug-in, but you DO make money from the authoring tools. Flash media server? WTF is that?

Examples of your former tool-forging glory would include:
  • Photoshop 7 (coincidence that it's the last one to support Mac OS 9?)
  • Illustrator 8 (10 was good too)
  • After Effects (anything before it was named "CS")
  • Let Dreamweaver go back to being a hardcore coding app (make something new for WYSIWYG web page creation, which you are already doing, thank you very much)
  • Ok, Lightroom is pretty good.
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Error601 View Post

'Cause you don't make any money from the plug-in, but you DO make money from the authoring tools.

To be fair to Adobe, they do actually listen to what people want and go about implementing the changes unlike a lot of other companies who go their own way regardless. Rather than cut and run though, they take the route of transitioning people over to a different way of working - this is another step of a few they have taken towards embracing web standards. Their HTML 5 creation tool Edge, which uses Webkit as the rendering engine is another.

They still need to support Flash for the functionality that doesn't exist seamlessly in HTML 5 yet such as DRM-protected video streaming and a few others:

http://www.wirelust.com/2010/05/21/1...at-html5-cant/

In due time, these things will be worked out by the committee determining the HTML 5 spec and Flash should remain as a stop-gap. I think at this point, it would be wise for Adobe to weigh up what Flash does that HTML 5 can replace and start culling those features from the Flash authoring and plugin system. This makes the plugin much more lean and at least allows a downgrade ability for websites. So if you disable the plugin, the vast majority of a website still shows, you just don't get the parts implemented with Flash.
post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But they just increased their sales by 45%.

45% percent of what? Premiere had virtually no marketshare in the video market to begin with...
post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by studentx View Post

45% percent of what? Premiere had virtually no marketshare in the video market to begin with...

And for how long? A temporary bump in sales brought on by steep discounts and a lot of press around FCPX doesn't mean a lot.

If Apple fails to add functionality back into FCPX, and if Premier proves to be a functional replacement for a lot of editors, then we'll see. Till then, it's hard to take this as anything but a blip.
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post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

To be fair to Adobe, they do actually listen to what people want and go about implementing the changes unlike a lot of other companies who go their own way regardless. Rather than cut and run though, they take the route of transitioning people over to a different way of working - this is another step of a few they have taken towards embracing web standards. Their HTML 5 creation tool Edge, which uses Webkit as the rendering engine is another.

They still need to support Flash for the functionality that doesn't exist seamlessly in HTML 5 yet such as DRM-protected video streaming and a few others:

http://www.wirelust.com/2010/05/21/1...at-html5-cant/

In due time, these things will be worked out by the committee determining the HTML 5 spec and Flash should remain as a stop-gap. I think at this point, it would be wise for Adobe to weigh up what Flash does that HTML 5 can replace and start culling those features from the Flash authoring and plugin system. This makes the plugin much more lean and at least allows a downgrade ability for websites. So if you disable the plugin, the vast majority of a website still shows, you just don't get the parts implemented with Flash.

Whoa, Poindexter... don't go all "reasonable" and "fair", with links to "facts" in an Adobe thread.
You're supposed to foam at the mouth and rabidly tear Adobe a new one, regardless of what the crux of the article is.

I'm pretty sure it's in the AI forum rules.
post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well. They have 45% more sales since Final Cut Pro X came out.

Actually, no. They have 45% sales growth in compared to last year. And there's no sales figures for FCP either, so no comparison is possible.
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post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

. FCP X is on v1 and will soon be adding many of the features the pros want.

That is no good for pros. This is actually an argument I am using to get the one remaining Mac user in our marketing dept to go to Windows 7 on his next hardware upgrade...Apple has flipped the finger to the pro market, if you need to add a seat of Final Cut to meet a deadline, you cant. You simply cant add a seat of X to a workflow buit on FCS 2 or 3 so that means my usrs have two choices, Avid or Premier Pro (because we cant wait and gamble on what features apple will add and when - managment wnats to know exactly what they are getting for $300/seat or more.) and being that we don't deliver to the silver screen, Avid is too much power for us.

I know it isnt the topic of this thread but since you brought it up -- Why do media pros still buy Macs? they all live in the Adobe suite which usually gets newer features at the same time or before the Mac like 64 bit. PC hardware is cheaper and in a corporate environment where IT is there managing things, its safer than Macs that arent managed at all for the most part in companies...Even in small or one man shops, a clean install of windows 7 with the free MS antivirus and auto update turned on is every bit as secure as a Mac. and price/performance is better on the PC side.
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post #31 of 46
So HLS is now part of the HTML5 spec is it? From what I understand Abode have simply put together a mechanism which can deliver video to iOS devices, nothing to do with Adobe abandoning Flash for HTML5.

RE: Apple & Flash.
Apple's positioning on Flash is correct for Apple. Apple's business model dictates this. Apple's positioning on Flash is also correct for those who visit poorly designed websites where Flash is typically implemented poorly. For some of the world, primarily those who use Flash for genuine media delivery activities Apple positioning today doesn't make sense. As pointed out by a previous poster (Marvin) subscription based media content cannot yet be delivered via HTML5 technologies. Why? Currently in HTML5 there's no way of protecting the media source. Today if someone is delivering audio or video to your device using HTML5 you can get a copy of their media to your computer without much effort.
My own opinion is, whether me or you like it or not there are individuals out there today who happily use Flash to view subscription based media content. The media industry today can sustain a viable media centric business model when using Flash. Today the media industry cannot sustain a viable media centric business model using HTML5.
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post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

That is no good for pros. This is actually an argument I am using to get the one remaining Mac user in our marketing dept to go to Windows 7 on his next hardware upgrade...Apple has flipped the finger to the pro market, if you need to add a seat of Final Cut to meet a deadline, you cant. You simply cant add a seat of X to a workflow buit on FCS 2 or 3 so that means my usrs have two choices, Avid or Premier Pro (because we cant wait and gamble on what features apple will add and when - managment wnats to know exactly what they are getting for $300/seat or more.) and being that we don't deliver to the silver screen, Avid is too much power for us.

I know it isnt the topic of this thread but since you brought it up -- Why do media pros still buy Macs? they all live in the Adobe suite which usually gets newer features at the same time or before the Mac like 64 bit. PC hardware is cheaper and in a corporate environment where IT is there managing things, its safer than Macs that arent managed at all for the most part in companies...Even in small or one man shops, a clean install of windows 7 with the free MS antivirus and auto update turned on is every bit as secure as a Mac. and price/performance is better on the PC side.

This is crazy talk. 1) your one remaining mac user doesnt need to switch hardware to run Win7. Mac have been capable of running multiple OS's for years now. 2) you CAN add a new seat of Final Cut 7. Apple caved so it is available to businesses 3) there are more than two choices (Premier and Avid) for editors with Vegas being one of them, 4) some creative professionals use macs due to better (subjectively speaking) font rendering among other things that is based on the OS and not the software installed, 5) macs may cost more upfront but the cost of ownership is much lower. That doesn't mean much for the steno pool but with creative professionals who are daily creating a company's product (or a product used to sell the company's products). That means they need a pretty powerful computer. It makes no sense to cheap out on the front end only to replace your workstations more frequently. Your "savings" are quickly eaten up. 6) you ever think that the macs have less management because they don't REQUIRE more management? OSX was built for networking and don't need to be hovered and prayed over to work

I definitely think film/video editors have some valid complaints (backwards compatibility being a major one) but your post doesn't really outline any. It's fine to have an agenda but get your facts straight first.
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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolinc View Post

I know this article speaks to Flash video but might it also extend to Flash based gaming? Every time I play a Zynga game, my MBP heats up to near sun like temperatures.

I am not sure if it is Flash based or not but my wife loves to play Fishdom HD on her Mac and on the iPad. On the Mac it can flatten the battery of a fully charged new MBP i5 or i7 in a few games. On the iPad you can play all night and the battery hardly changes capacity. Whatever they used to program the Mac version sure could learn a lesson or two from the iPad version!
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post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post

So HLS is now part of the HTML5 spec is it? From what I understand Abode have simply put together a mechanism which can deliver video to iOS devices, nothing to do with Adobe abandoning Flash for HTML5.

RE: Apple & Flash.
Apple's positioning on Flash is correct for Apple. Apple's business model dictates this. Apple's positioning on Flash is also correct for those who visit poorly designed websites where Flash is typically implemented poorly. For some of the world, primarily those who use Flash for genuine media delivery activities Apple positioning today doesn't make sense. As pointed out by a previous poster (Marvin) subscription based media content cannot yet be delivered via HTML5 technologies. Why? Currently in HTML5 there's no way of protecting the media source. Today if someone is delivering audio or video to your device using HTML5 you can get a copy of their media to your computer without much effort.
My own opinion is, whether me or you like it or not there are individuals out there today who happily use Flash to view subscription based media content. The media industry today can sustain a viable media centric business model when using Flash. Today the media industry cannot sustain a viable media centric business model using HTML5.

Yes, Adobe have simply created a mechanism for real time conversion from their Flash based media servers to dish up content iOS devices can play on demand, not abandoned Flash per se. However, it helps the sale of iOS devices in the face of the "they don't run Flash" arguments. So in that way it is giving a massive helping hand to increase sales of non Flash compliant devices. That one could argue is a victory for Apple and a loss to Adobe. IMHO it shows Adobe see greater revenues supporting iOS than not. This of course only relates to video streaming not as I read it those battery destroying interactive Flash creations. They are hard at work on that side of things with HTML5 output from their creation tools, again thus supporting non Flash devices. Ultimately all very wise for Adobe as they probably prefer to be able to support every platform out there one way or another.
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post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolinc View Post

I know this article speaks to Flash video but might it also extend to Flash based gaming? Every time I play a Zynga game, my MBP heats up to near sun like temperatures.

Any time I visited a website with lots of Flash-based banner advertising whatever laptop I used (Mac or PC) would start to heat up, spin up its fan like a mofo, and I'd watch the battery start to drain before my eyes. Most Flash ads are pretty f'ing annoying too. Remember the "punch the monkey and win" ads?

Good riddance. I'm glad Steve Jobs stood up to Adobe and the haters. I hope all those Hemorrhoid and RIM Playbook tablets enjoy their shorten battery lives because they gotta have Flash.

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post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolinc View Post

I know this article speaks to Flash video but might it also extend to Flash based gaming? Every time I play a Zynga game, my MBP heats up to near sun like temperatures.

Flash started using h264 in the flash wrapper (background) a while back, so now offering h264 in a more open wrapper probably isn't a huge leap. VERY good that they're doing it of course.

But it won't help games in flash. They're not a h264 movie stream.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

some creative professionals use macs due to better (subjectively speaking) font rendering among other things that is based on the OS and not the software installed

That may be true, however, I think it is more of a niche/cult thing now days. Macs have long been the platform of choice for creative professionals and the new apprentices are indoctrinated into the family of design professionals through learning the Mac. Font rendering is not the issue. It is more about the 100s of years of typesetting history, kerning, tracking, appropriate font selection, ligatures, leading, etc. These typeface embellishments are not exclusive to the Mac platform, however it is the realm of the properly trained graphic design professional and that is where the connection to the Mac comes in. It has little to do with the OS at this point since Windows can now do any of the same typesetting but the long tradition of professional typesetting has been almost exclusively Mac since the beginning of the DTP era and Adobe has been at the forefront of computer based design since it began.

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post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

The White Flag Goes Up at Adobe HQ.

Bye Bye Flash. We Won't Miss You.

Why do you know-nothings keep commenting on things you don't even understand? The reason Adobe didn't adopt H.264 early was due to the 5 million a year licensing fee. The Flash Media Server hasn't served up H.264 video because the flash player plugin doesn't have the ability to live encode to that format. They're weaving in support for H.264 both in the plugin and in the media server because it's a natural progression from the H.263 format they're currently using and because there is both consumer and commercial demand for it.

This is in no way a signal that the Flash Player plugin is going anywhere but forward into the future as it is still the easiest way to encode and view video across a wide array of devices (nearly ubiquitous).
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post #39 of 46
I would certainly be curious to hear specifically which computer you are recommending that has a better price/performance. What type of work your co-working would be doing.

Hope you aren't recommending an HP.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Even in small or one man shops, a clean install of windows 7 with the free MS antivirus and auto update turned on is every bit as secure as a Mac. and price/performance is better on the PC side.
post #40 of 46
You really think Adobe is concerned about licensing fees?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

Why do you know-nothings keep commenting on things you don't even understand? The reason Adobe didn't adopt H.264 early was due to the 5 million a year licensing fee.
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