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Apple may surprise with late-2011 MacBook Pro refresh - Page 2

post #41 of 136
9/14/11 at 2:57am
I wonder if they'll manage to silently fix the SATA3 issue on these machines?

It would be nice to be able to use a third-party SSD on their top-of-the-range £2,099 laptop.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #42 of 136
9/14/11 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Then ask Microsoft Skype to fix their absurdly CPU-intensive software?

Have, on many occasions. Posting a issue to the Skype forums is like talking to a wall. Many others will respond, but you never, ever hear anything from the Skype team. Have also posted that we need to have the ability to share part of a screen, as I have a 27" monitor, but many of the folks I share with are on laptops. Again, all posts, some hundreds of posts long with tag alongs, sit with no response.

Skype is Microsoft now, right? So my expectations are not that high at the moment.
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post #43 of 136
9/14/11 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

Now I no the subject is MacBooks but this kinda applies across the line. I purchased an iMac (2011) that was maxed out at 3.4, 8G RAM (2@4ea), 6970 Radeon with 2048, a 1TB internal and a 256 SSD, etc

What I am wondering is how people are optimizing the use between the SSD and the HD. My first approach was to make sure all applications are on the SSD and all my data and another archives etc are on the HD. Seem reasonable but as I am a developer with 1.6 million files total I wonder if there is a better way to split that. I hit a bunch of the tiny files on the hard drive when doing various builds and although the vast majority never get erased (except for when Apple is send out new SDK one after another).

Is anyone aware of strategies for dividing my mass storage to get the best performance and also a good long life out of the SSD which I have no desire to replace long before anything else is going bad.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Feel free to email me directly .

I would thing whatever is learned would tend to apply to laptops, all-in-ones, and pros, as long as they have a combo HD/SSD setup.

It's a tough one, I tried to use a HD in the CD drive bay from otherworldcomputing, but found that the drive spun all the time. For me, the SSD was more about not having vibrations, but the speed became addictive. So I optimized what I do, carry around a external HD sometimes, and have 2 SSD's in the computer.

Also, try Grand Perspective to get a look at where you can trim the files down, it helped me out.
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post #44 of 136
9/14/11 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Sigh. I was holding out for a new 15" form factor Pro (likely sans ODD, possibly with SSD + HDD and maybe a pound lighter + whatever other sweetness) in the 1st Q of 2012, but looks not to be in the cards until Summer...

I hope for new MB Air 15'' with same hi res, matte display option. That would be sweet, especially if the battery life is improved compared to 13'' MBA.
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post #45 of 136
9/14/11 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don't bother. You obviously don't give a crap about Lion, so just buy a Windows 8 machine.

Windows 7 or 8 is even more abysmal, but it seems you didn't get my post.
I am okay with 10.6.8, it will work until my Macs die, but once I have to buy a new Mac, I might be in trouble. And Windows will not be the better solution, it just looks too busy.

And yes, right now, I don't give a crap about Lion, as many do too. And if you still remember your MR times, you might have come upon some people, who still used older version of Mac OS X while a new version was already available (10.4 users when 10.5 or 10.6 was out).

jav would be proud I guess.
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post #46 of 136
9/14/11 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I wonder if they'll manage to silently fix the SATA3 issue on these machines?

It would be nice to be able to use a third-party SSD on their top-of-the-range £2,099 laptop.

This.
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post #47 of 136
9/14/11 at 7:59am
Bluetooth 4? Bluetooth 4? Bluetooth 4? Bluetooth 4?
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post #48 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMark7 View Post

Bluetooth 4? Bluetooth 4? Bluetooth 4? Bluetooth 4?

No, Apple will decide not to update hardware in their new MacBook Pros that every single other new Mac is currently receiving.

\
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #49 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:09am
they could outfit them with 10GHz Intel processors but who cares since there are no Thunderbolt hard drives available to get files on or off them?? Lame.
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post #50 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot777 View Post

they could outfit them with 10GHz Intel processors but who cares since there are no Thunderbolt hard drives available to get files on or off them?? Lame.

I don't even think there's a name for the type of trolling that is.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #51 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:48am
I purchased my new MBP 17 earlier this year. I originally planned to wait until Lion was released, but when I learned of the lack of Rosetta, I pulled the trigger early.
I was coming from a G5 PowerMac, and I have far too many PPC apps to lose Rosetta. I am working on updates, but some of those useful utilities I use were never updated to Intel.

If this is merely a speed bump, I have no heartache over my purchase decision. Speed is not an issue. The MBP is much faster than my old G5 Dual.

What is missing from the MBP, for me, was an eSATA port and USB3. ExpressPort helped.

I guess the future is in ThunderBolt expansion devices.
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post #52 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

I purchased my new MBP 17 earlier this year. I originally planned to wait until Lion was released, but when I learned of the lack of Rosetta, I pulled the trigger early.
I was coming from a G5 PowerMac, and I have far too many PPC apps to lose Rosetta. I am working on updates, but some of those useful utilities I use were never updated to Intel.

I don't know of a single OS X utility that isn't covered by an Intel version.

Use this site to help ease yourself along.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #53 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't know of a single OS X utility that isn't covered by an Intel version.

Use this site to help ease yourself along.

I'll get there. But, 9 years of using PPC apps takes time to replace. I am also not made of money, and upgrades are not free. Just did the PhotoShop upgrade. That hurt!

Lion looks great! Can't wait to use it. But, There is nothing currently driving me to upgrade today. Snow Leopard is great as well.

Past experience tells me this: in a year, there will be many apps that will not run under anything but Lion. That will cause pressure, and more people will upgrade.

I am also a long time iTools/.mac/mobileme user. Other than performance of iDisk, I've been pretty happy with mobileme. I will probably hold off on switching there as well. This is the first area I suspect we will see pressure to upgrade to Lion. iCloud will likely work better with Lion.
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post #54 of 136
9/14/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielrucci View Post

Anyone think USB 3.0 will be in the mix on this one?

Chirping

   I am long on my shares of AAPL at $37.00

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   I am long on my shares of AAPL at $37.00

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post #55 of 136
9/14/11 at 7:00pm
Will this include a fix for the 15" Aug/Sept2011 Mac??? Pro laptop battery issues ?

In 10 mins it falls to 75% so it has to be plugged in constantly even if the laptop is in standby mode or what ever Apple calls standby mode.

Maybe it is just the normal Biltmore Phoenix AZ, 1st device is always old refurb sold as new, 2nd replacement device is always new or property packaged and properly cleared / OSX installed and not in french and not full of bugs as is default since 2004.

Or maybe it is just a battery bug ?

Any idea if there is going to be a video card updates in this refresh or not or same old Ipad video card / IGP AMD 67** we have now ?

Please add USB3.0 as transferring 250gb over LAN or via usb2.0 is a major pain and no I will not buy thunderbolt to replace what I own already and then have duplicate devices.

Migration software is well ..... what a joke maybe a fix for that in 10.7 .

Maybe add a 2 button non psycho mouse pad ?

20 days since open box and I wanted to constantly put this Apple laptop in the microwave out of frustration to make it work or do something / just work for once.

No wonder Steve Jobs ran away from Apple, I would be too embarrassed about Apple name on this laptop + 10.7 as well.

What a USD$2200 15" joke.
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post #56 of 136
9/14/11 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by G7Cube View Post

Or maybe it is just a battery bug ?

It would be a bug with YOUR battery, so you should take it in.

Quote:
Any idea if there is going to be a video card updates in this refresh or not or same old Ipad video card / IGP AMD 67** we have now ?

Not sure where you think you get "iPad video card", but there's absolutely no way we can know what it will have.

We can speculate based on the new chips that have the same TDP as the current models.

Quote:
Please add USB3.0 as transferring 250gb over LAN or via usb2.0 is a major pain and no I will not buy thunderbolt to replace what I own already and then have duplicate devices.

Sure, you'll just buy USB 3.0 to replace what you own already and then have "duplicate devices".

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Migration software is well ..... what a joke maybe a fix for that in 10.7 .

There's zero wrong with Migration Assistant.

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Maybe add a 2 button non psycho mouse pad ?

Buy a PC. We just got rid of the buttons and we would have never had two physical ones.

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20 days since open box and I wanted to constantly put this Apple laptop in the microwave out of frustration to make it work or do something / just work for once.

Sounds like you need a PC.

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No wonder Steve Jobs ran away from Apple, I would be too embarrassed about Apple name on this laptop + 10.7 as well.

What a USD$2200 15" joke.

Mods, please take care of this joker.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #57 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I wonder if they'll manage to silently fix the SATA3 issue on these machines?

It would be nice to be able to use a third-party SSD on their top-of-the-range £2,099 laptop.

I have an ssd sitting here waiting for my MBP to arrive. I've heard that my crucial m4ssd will work fine. It better for that much money.
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post #58 of 136
9/14/11 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by G7Cube View Post

Will this include a fix for the 15" Aug/Sept2011 Mac??? Pro laptop battery issues ?

In 10 mins it falls to 75% so it has to be plugged in constantly even if the laptop is in standby mode or what ever Apple calls standby mode.

Maybe it is just the normal Biltmore Phoenix AZ, 1st device is always old refurb sold as new, 2nd replacement device is always new or property packaged and properly cleared / OSX installed and not in french and not full of bugs as is default since 2004.

Or maybe it is just a battery bug ?

Any idea if there is going to be a video card updates in this refresh or not or same old Ipad video card / IGP AMD 67** we have now ?

Please add USB3.0 as transferring 250gb over LAN or via usb2.0 is a major pain and no I will not buy thunderbolt to replace what I own already and then have duplicate devices.

Migration software is well ..... what a joke maybe a fix for that in 10.7 .

Maybe add a 2 button non psycho mouse pad ?

20 days since open box and I wanted to constantly put this Apple laptop in the microwave out of frustration to make it work or do something / just work for once.

No wonder Steve Jobs ran away from Apple, I would be too embarrassed about Apple name on this laptop + 10.7 as well.

What a USD$2200 15" joke.

i think this guy got scammed for paying $2200 for a fake mac, and now he's complaining.
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post #59 of 136
9/14/11 at 9:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G7Cube View Post

What a USD$2200 15" joke.

I haven't actually seen any issues like you're describing with this model. Really if you bought such an item new and are experiencing all of these things, I would suggest returning it immediately. I've been stuck with bad devices before where I tried to make them work and really if it's better just to return a lemon rather than try to live with it and potentially have to rely on warranty servicing later.

Did you buy it from an Apple store? If not did you ensure it was an authorized Apple retailer wherever you did buy it? I haven't heard of any battery issues that extreme on that model, so I'm thinking lemon.
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post #60 of 136
9/14/11 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by G7Cube View Post

Will this include a fix for the 15" Aug/Sept2011 Mac??? Pro laptop battery issues ?

Last I knew there where no issues. If your machine doesn't work right take it back. I'm assuming this is a ligitimate purchase and that you know what a warranty is.
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In 10 mins it falls to 75% so it has to be plugged in constantly even if the laptop is in standby mode or what ever Apple calls standby mode.

So why do you still have the machine. Are you scarred to walk into the Apple store and ask for an exchange?
Quote:

Maybe it is just the normal Biltmore Phoenix AZ, 1st device is always old refurb sold as new, 2nd replacement device is always new or property packaged and properly cleared / OSX installed and not in french and not full of bugs as is default since 2004.

Sounds like you are full of it.
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Or maybe it is just a battery bug ?

Any idea if there is going to be a video card updates in this refresh or not or same old Ipad video card / IGP AMD 67** we have now ?

Displaying even more ignorance are we?
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Please add USB3.0 as transferring 250gb over LAN or via usb2.0 is a major pain and no I will not buy thunderbolt to replace what I own already and then have duplicate devices.

Migration software is well ..... what a joke maybe a fix for that in 10.7 .

Maybe add a 2 button non psycho mouse pad ?

20 days since open box and I wanted to constantly put this Apple laptop in the microwave out of frustration to make it work or do something / just work for once.

Computers are tools, tool use implies a higher level of evolution compared to lesser beasts. If you can't use your tool ....
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No wonder Steve Jobs ran away from Apple, I would be too embarrassed about Apple name on this laptop + 10.7 as well.

That is funny as 10.7 works well on my old 2008 MBP, which isn't exactlyna power house by today's standards. In fact I'd have to say 10.7 is one of Apples best major releases in years. It may have a bug or two and other issues but it delivers a lot of functionality for the cost.
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What a USD$2200 15" joke.

Well either you are playing a joke on the forum or you can't operate your tool. So which is it?
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post #61 of 136
9/14/11 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeddie View Post

i think this guy got scammed for paying $2200 for a fake mac, and now he's complaining.

I think he went to one of those fake Chinese Apple stores
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post #62 of 136
9/15/11 at 1:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Well either you are playing a joke on the forum or you can't operate your tool. So which is it?


I looked up his other posts to try to gauge if he was trolling before responding personally. If he is he put a lot of effort into it. I figured it to be possible he bought a fake machine online and remains frazzled by the experience, so I didn't respond to it as a troll post.
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post #63 of 136
9/15/11 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't know of a single OS X utility that isn't covered by an Intel version.

Use this site to help ease yourself along.

That's because you don't have any external eSATA RAID boxes that require Silicon Image's SteelVine Manager software (PowerPC binaries only) to manage them. SiI never updated the software after February of 2008.

It works fine on Snow Leopard but without Rosetta, it won't work at all on Lion.

I was forced to buy a Mac Pro with 4 internal drives to replace my two AMS Venus DS-DS3RPRO 2x1TB eSATA RAID units because of this. So now I have two expensive paperweights ...
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post #64 of 136
9/15/11 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post

That's because you don't have any external eSATA RAID boxes that require Silicon Image's SteelVine Manager software (PowerPC binaries only) to manage them. SiI never updated the software after February of 2008.

Yep. Yeah, that, uh that would indeed be the case. I haven't.

Oh, that's inexcusable, by the way. I completely agree.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #65 of 136
9/15/11 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't even think there's a name for the type of trolling that is.

how's it that trolling? it's a completely legitimate concern, faster is useless for pro users if we can't get large files on and off of them in reasonable amount time. fool.
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post #66 of 136
9/15/11 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot777 View Post

how's it that trolling? it's a completely legitimate concern, faster is useless for pro users if we can't get large files on and off of them in reasonable amount time. fool.

You're implying that no Thunderbolt accessories exist. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Also, processor speed doesn't really have much of anything to do with drive speed, drive interface speed, or
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #67 of 136
9/15/11 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post

That's because you don't have any external eSATA RAID boxes that require Silicon Image's SteelVine Manager software (PowerPC binaries only) to manage them. SiI never updated the software after February of 2008.

eSATA is a bad idea to begin with, putting a RAID drive on that port doubly so.
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It works fine on Snow Leopard but without Rosetta, it won't work at all on Lion.

I was forced to buy a Mac Pro with 4 internal drives to replace my two

I harp on this all the time but the best place for a RAID array is in the internal bays of your computer chassis. Trying to extend your working storage via an external device is loaded with problems. This is different than using an array for one level of backups, where obviously you need to separate the hardware.

If your machine can't handle your storage needs internally you should resort to some sort of network storage using common protocols. That is some sort of file server implementation.
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AMS Venus DS-DS3RPRO 2x1TB eSATA RAID units because of this. So now I have two expensive paperweights ...

Not really; you have two sources of parts that might go nicely into a NAS box or something similar. That is if you are up to the DIY challenge. If not it is a good lesson in value, very few of these proprietary external storage boxes stay around for long. There have to be dozens of external RAID boxes no longer supported, plus a host of other "drives" that have outlived their originating companies.

I know this post will generate all sorts of comment to the contrary but that is the way I see it. You might also have better luck with the bigger brand names, but who is big today may not be tomorrow.

In any event don't feel bad, I have a whole cellar full of computing mistakes. Some not so bad at the time but in retrospect an example of falling victim to a false sense of economy. A lot of those mistake involve storage devices.
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post #68 of 136
9/15/11 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

...
What's "broken"?

I guess with fanboi blinders on one only sees Apple perfection...

Nothing is broken... as a matter of fact there should never, ever be another release on any OS ever as the current version of Lion is so perfect and done
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post #69 of 136
9/15/11 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

I guess with fanboi blinders on one only sees Apple perfection...

Nothing is broken... as a matter of fact there should never, ever be another release on any OS ever as the current version of Lion is so perfect and done

LOL, OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT ASKING AN HONEST QUESTION ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE FIND WRONG WITH THE OS.

I CAN'T POSSIBLY SEE PAST MY ANODIZED ALUMINUM-COLORED GLASSES.



That's just sickeningly wrong.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #70 of 136
9/15/11 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

I guess with fanboi blinders on one only sees Apple perfection...

This is just ignorant. I've lived through enough Mac OS/X updates to realize that Lion is pretty darn good relative to some. No one in this forum has ever said Lion is perfection, rather we point out again and again it is a huge win overall. You won't see that if you dwell on the rough spots.
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Nothing is broken...

Very little if anything is broken. There are some networking issues and a number of behavioral problems but none of this keeps the platform from working. What faults there is will be fixed, but those problems are far out weighed by the positives.
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as a matter of fact there should never, ever be another release on any OS ever as the current version of Lion is so perfect and done

This is also very stupid as Apple itself has said Lion is not done. The update for iCloud should be rather significant and then sometime down the road expect some other significant updates.

Really you need to learn to read for content. If you had a grasp of what is happening you would know where Apple is going with Lion. On top of that it is pretty much accepted that Operating Systems are works in progress. Mac OS did not hatch out of an egg all complete and ready to go, rather it has been assembled bit by bit over the years. Lion is just one step along the development path.
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post #71 of 136
9/15/11 at 1:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post

That's because you don't have any external eSATA RAID boxes that require Silicon Image's SteelVine Manager software (PowerPC binaries only) to manage them. SiI never updated the software after February of 2008.

It works fine on Snow Leopard but without Rosetta, it won't work at all on Lion.

I've owned a small esata box since the G5 days when internal storage was more limited. Today you can have 8TB internally on a mac pro, but you still want your backup of that to be off the computer, so it's not a complete solution. I avoid consumer raid boxes like the plague. You're better off with the system addressing single drives there unless you're willing to get into a proper NAS solution. The issue that sucks most these days is archiving large amounts of data.

Anyone remember tape drives (many still in use today just not "as many")?
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post #72 of 136
9/15/11 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

You must be a Democrat, you confuse rumors with news. Apple insider is clearly reporting a rumor here.

Pathetic. Grow up.

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post #73 of 136
9/16/11 at 8:29am
Getting back on topic, guys...

I see this MacBook Pro refresh as somewhat futile.

For many users, the latest MacBook Air is sufficient, apart from the fact that SSD disk size is limited to 256 GB. This machine effectively makes the 13" MacBook Pro redundant. Moreover, everybody is now anticipating Ivy Bridge and a new enclosure design for the 15" and 17" MBP models. Many buyers will simply wait.

It looks almost certain as if a 15" MacBook Air will get quad core Ivy Bridge with incredible battery life and a 60% performance increment.

I think we're seeing Apple's notebook line-up evolve into a single type of enclosure design - all based around the current 13" Air. Will they call it Air or Pro? Perhaps the 11" and 13" models will be MacBook Airs and the 15" and 17" models will be MacBook Pros? It probably doesn't matter, but I'd prefer it if Apple just simplified the name to MacBook or iMacBook.
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post #74 of 136
9/17/11 at 12:08am
I guess the real differentiator between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro has always been the inclusion of a discrete graphics card. The only exception being the 13" MBP, which isn't really a MBP in my opinion.

So if Apple were to include a discrete graphics card, I suppose there's nothing to stop them adopting the MBA style enclosure for the MBP?

I bought an 11" MBA when they were first launched, and a 17" MBP about three months ago, and I have to say that the MBA is noticeably faster than the MBP in everything but large Photoshop files (or InDesign documents with lots of large Photoshop files/effects).

I marvel at how fast the new generation of MBAs must be?

So yes, I think for a lot of people, the new MBAs are the logical choice over a MBP...
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #75 of 136
9/17/11 at 3:17am
I hope that Apple continue to distinguish between the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro. I think the essential difference should be that the MacBook Pro should continue to accommodate CPUs/GPUs with about double the thermal dissipation (about 35W) of those which the MacBook Air can accommodate (about 17W). Another difference would be that the MacBook Pro models would continue to include more ports than the MacBook Air models. I hope the MacBook Pro models would include two mSATA slots rather than the one slot of the MacBook Air.

Ideally, I think the MacBook Air should be offered in 11", 13", and 15" versions while the MacBook Pro should be offered in 13", 15", and 17" versions.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #76 of 136
9/17/11 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailpipe View Post

Getting back on topic, guys...

You are asking a lot there
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I see this MacBook Pro refresh as somewhat futile.

Baloney.
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For many users, the latest MacBook Air is sufficient, apart from the fact that SSD disk size is limited to 256 GB.

For just as many, maybe even more, the AIR comes up short sometimes very short. Just consider what the AIR is missing:
  1. Expandable / replaceable RAM.
  2. A real drive bay to take magnetic or solid state drives.
  3. A real GPU supporting OpenCL.
  4. An Ethernet port.
  5. A suitably big screen.
  6. Respectable CPU performance. Note that this is not the same thing as a machine being responsive.
  7. Long run time on battery.
  8. The ability to drive multiple monitors well.
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This machine effectively makes the 13" MacBook Pro redundant.

See the above. The simple fact that you can add RAM to the 13" MBP makes it a very good machine, add in the faster processor and the 13" MBP becomes very unique.
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Moreover, everybody is now anticipating Ivy Bridge and a new enclosure design for the 15" and 17" MBP models. Many buyers will simply wait.

Well I'm trying to wait. However I don't think they will ignore the 13" MBP.
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It looks almost certain as if a 15" MacBook Air will get quad core Ivy Bridge with incredible battery life and a 60% performance increment.

Not really. The bench mark that saw a 60% improvement was a synthetic bench. Other tests indicated less than 3o% improvement for the GPU overall. Not that this does not include the CPU.
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I think we're seeing Apple's notebook line-up evolve into a single type of enclosure design - all based around the current 13" Air. Will they call it Air or Pro? Perhaps the 11" and 13" models will be MacBook Airs and the 15" and 17" models will be MacBook Pros? It probably doesn't matter, but I'd prefer it if Apple just simplified the name to MacBook or iMacBook.
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post #77 of 136
9/17/11 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

For just as many, maybe even more, the AIR comes up short sometimes very short. Just consider what the AIR is missing:
  1. Expandable / replaceable RAM.
  2. A real drive bay to take magnetic or solid state drives.
  3. A real GPU supporting OpenCL.
  4. An Ethernet port.
  5. A suitably big screen.
  6. Respectable CPU performance. Note that this is not the same thing as a machine being responsive.
  7. Long run time on battery.
  8. The ability to drive multiple monitors well.

Most of the items on your list are only interesting to us geeks. Normal consumers do not factor most of these things into their purchase decisions. I would bet that for about 99% of potential buyers, the only items on your list that would be a factor are:
  1. A suitably big screen.
  2. Long run time on battery.
  3. An Ethernet port. (maybe)

Since you distinguish between CPU performance and system responsiveness, I'll opine that about 99% of consumers care about system responsiveness and about 1% care about CPU performance. Most of them have no idea what a CPU is and most of the few who some idea what a CPU is know only that it's the computer's "brain".
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #78 of 136
9/17/11 at 10:57am
Take gamers for example, some are geeks but many are not. However they know enough that they look for machines with certain aspects, including GPUs. The same could be said about people involved in graphics arts whom also have an interest in RAM and CPU performance. The list could go on but the point is any of a number of items on that list could be important to the geekless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Most of the items on your list are only interesting to us geeks. Normal consumers do not factor most of these things into their purchase decisions. I would bet that for about 99% of potential buyers, the only items on your list that would be a factor are:
  1. A suitably big screen.
  2. Long run time on battery.
  3. An Ethernet port. (maybe)

Since you distinguish between CPU performance and system responsiveness, I'll opine that about 99% of consumers care about system responsiveness and about 1% care about CPU performance. Most of them have no idea what a CPU is and most of the few who some idea what a CPU is know only that it's the computer's "brain".

You don't have to understand what a CPU is the way we do as geeks. Seriously speed or performance is still one of the big drivers of system upgrades, for all users. Generally it is a mix between faster performance or more storage space.

You may think I'm pulling these comments out of the air but I have a friend that runs a computer repair business on the side. So my impression is based in part what the helpless go looking for when they decide it is time to upgrade. Believe me performance and storage space are to bug drivers. Some of the other factors may also come into play. The reality is sometimes the people coming into the shop can't even express what they want well.
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post #79 of 136
9/17/11 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Take gamers for example, some are geeks but many are not. However they know enough that they look for machines with certain aspects, including GPUs. The same could be said about people involved in graphics arts whom also have an interest in RAM and CPU performance. The list could go on but the point is any of a number of items on that list could be important to the geekless.

These people you list care about system responsiveness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I have a friend that runs a computer repair business on the side. So my impression is based in part what the helpless go looking for when they decide it is time to upgrade. Believe me performance and storage space are to b[i]g drivers. Some of the other factors may also come into play. The reality is sometimes the people coming into the shop can't even express what they want well.

These people are not shopping based on tech specs. They go into an Apple store or try a friend's machine and it either feels fast or it feels sluggish. That or they read a review somewhere that opines that the machine is fast or not. They don't care why it feels fast or feels sluggish.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #80 of 136
9/17/11 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

These people you list care about system responsiveness.

When you are talking about the difference between code execution on different machines it is about performance. In other words given the same I/O and other external features the machine that runs long running code faster is preferred. In many cases the speed of a computer can have a direct impact on a professionals ability to make money and be competitive. They thus understand the need for performance even if they are thin on the details to get there.

Notably there is another group of professionals where a responsive machine makes a huge difference. There is not however a lot of overlap here.
Quote:

These people are not shopping based on tech specs. They go into an Apple store or try a friend's machine and it either feels fast or it feels sluggish. That or they read a review somewhere that opines that the machine is fast or not. They don't care why it feels fast or feels sluggish.

Exactly! These people don't have a clue about the CPU, GPU or whatever. What they do know is that their hardware is noticeably slower than it should be or that they would like. Even many of a professional user doesn't care about the details they just know that XYZ piece of software works better, faster or whatever on certain hardware configurations. Sometimes they just take the software manufactures Suggestions blindly as to suitable hardware configs.
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